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  1. #1

    Canadians get the short end of the stick yet again...

    There's a country north of your border and many of us pay to play LOTRO, yet we yet again get completely ignored when it comes to contests, such as the levelling contests and those in other areas of the game.

    If you are able to work out the legalities of accepting our subscription fees and purchases for all these years, then it would be appreciated if the effort was made to work out the legalities to let us join the contests.
    [B][COLOR=#fffacd][SIZE=3]Moonhawk...[/SIZE][/COLOR][/B]
    [B][COLOR=#fffacd][I]Hunter of the Second Age.[/I][/COLOR][/B]

    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/012030000000038c5/01008/signature.png]Moonhawk[/charsig]

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    12,677
    The laws of the world are set up to make global commerce flow relatively smoothly. Not so for contests. In fact, if they were to go to all the time and expense to be sure everyone who could buy their game could also participate in these contests, they'd likely be spending at least 2 orders of magnitude more money on the process than on the prizes. That simply isn't going to happen.

    Khafar

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    The Shire, Canada
    Posts
    894
    Cooo looo kooo koo koo coo koo.... cooo looo cooo kooo coo koo......

    Our Topic tuday is Turbine and how come they, like, don't offer prizes like free beer and stuff to The Great White North!

    Hey Turbine!
    Take off eh!
    Ya hosers!

    Beauty! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsgVspgy184
    [URL=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/JayDeeHobbit/media/LOTROs-1.jpg.html][IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/JayDeeHobbit/LOTROs-1.jpg~original[/IMG][/URL]
    [color=limegreen][b]Wulfgrim Ghastban, Hrothwine and Galdrefyst of Rohan - Peckish of the Shire -- Riddermark[/b][/color]
    “I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend” JRRT

  4. #4
    But you rock the dance floor!


    [CENTER][img]http://www.djelle.dk/sig-lotro.jpg?&f=gp&id=7697947&lo=0e0c0e111pp10&t1=Gedachtnis&u=ironyandspite.guildportal.com&k=Irony%20and%20Spite&i=www.axiomfiles.com/Files/375005/Copy%2520of%2520Irony-and-Spite_LOGO1.jpg[/img]
    It's all to clear we are on our own.[/CENTER]

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Moonhawk View Post
    There's a country north of your border and many of us pay to play LOTRO, yet we yet again get completely ignored when it comes to contests, such as the levelling contests and those in other areas of the game.

    If you are able to work out the legalities of accepting our subscription fees and purchases for all these years, then it would be appreciated if the effort was made to work out the legalities to let us join the contests.
    The difficulty is that Turbine would need to do a Canadian only contest. Some Problems:

    1 ) IIRC - Contests like what Turbine is running are considered Gambling. Typically in Canada to keep from getting in trouble the contest operators uses one or both of the following:

    a) It is not a chance contest. It is a skill contest where you have to answer questions.

    b) There is no pay to enter like buy a box of cereal send in Universal Price Code (UPC). You have a method where people can enter the contest via a mechanism like mailing in an entry.

    2) Plus there is the requirement for a Public Announcement that meets the requirements of the Canadian Competition Act.

    3) There is the Quebec issue. Most companies will not let residents of Quebec enter. Making a contest Quebec compliant is very expensive.

    You want to run a contest in Canada you end up hiring:
    http://dalelessmann.com/
    or a similar company to make sure you do not get into painful beating by the various government organizations in Canada.

    Finally, Quebec may not be the only province with specific rules you have to comply with. That is a problem in the USA - complying with Federal, state and local laws - there are places where the contest is not available due to state or local laws. Most USA contests have a disclaimer similar to "No entries or winners are accepted from places where the contest are in conflict with the law.".
    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  6. #6
    Not to sure why the UK can not join either as the gaming act of 2005 specifically states if its free to enter it can not coincided gambling so does not need a licence for a lottery.

  7. #7
    You need to write your elected representatives and ask them to modify the laws in your country regarding contests.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    12,677
    Quote Originally Posted by Bragard View Post
    Not to sure why the UK can not join either as the gaming act of 2005 specifically states if its free to enter it can not coincided gambling so does not need a licence for a lottery.
    I have no idea whether this applies in the UK, but from what I've read, sometimes countries will count "substantial time investment" as a form of "payment" in order to enter.

    Really, if you want to fry your brain cells, pull up the contest law for 5 countries and try to read them. I did, and it's insane. Dozens to hundreds of pages. Each. They were all written by lawyers, and can only be fully understood by lawyers. This is one of the reasons it's so hard to run these contests in multiple countries, because you have to hire legal experts to help you navigate the contest law in each one. And when the prizes only add up to like $500, you're not going to spend $5K, $10K, or $50K to deal with all the laws and process.

    Khafar

  9. #9
    I am well aware of the different rules regarding in Canada, regarding lotteries. My point is, Canada is one of the largest consumers of US goods and services, including LOTRO. For that reason, I'd like to see that extra effort made to provide me (as a Canadian) with the same value for my money, as is being given to US, French, and German players. Many other companies do.
    [B][COLOR=#fffacd][SIZE=3]Moonhawk...[/SIZE][/COLOR][/B]
    [B][COLOR=#fffacd][I]Hunter of the Second Age.[/I][/COLOR][/B]

    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/012030000000038c5/01008/signature.png]Moonhawk[/charsig]

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    3,924
    Supposing that the ratio of Canadian to US players is similar to the ratio of populations, there would be about one Canadian player for every nine US players.

    But the time/effort/money required for legal compliance in Canada is undoubtedly greater than the effort required in the US (since Turbine isn't a Canadian company). Even supposing, optimistically, that the effort were identical, why would they spend double the time/money/effort to include 11% more players?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    491
    Quote Originally Posted by Moonhawk View Post
    as is being given to US, French, and German players. Many other companies do.
    Lets see the current one is open to US, Germany and France. But not UK, Canada or say Italy.

    If they bothered to find out that they could run the contest in those countries but not in Canada or UK, there is very likely a reason for it. The fact that they weren't willing to look seems the least likely answer. The most likely is that this contest wouldn't be considered legal in Canada.

    It's not like the contest laws change every few days or something. Turbine/WB already knows what is or isn't allowed in those countries, and so they know if a given contest will be allowed there or not.

    So to echo what others have said. This isn't Turbines problem, it's a problem created by your government.

  12. #12
    There are ridiculous amounts of US contests that Canadians cannot enter, or if they can exclude Quebec. Why should this one particular video game be an exception? It's not a new development.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    12,677
    Quote Originally Posted by Wellander View Post
    There are ridiculous amounts of US contests that Canadians cannot enter, or if they can exclude Quebec. Why should this one particular video game be an exception?
    There are also tons of Canadian-only contests too, although I'm not sure if that's because of contest law differences or because Canadian contestants won't have their chances to win diluted by a factor of 10 or more. Probably both. I notice that even a lot of Canadian-only contests exclude Quebec - apparently it's the Rhode Island of the north .

    Khafar

  14. #14
    There are no rules or laws in the UK which would prevent Turbine offering this competition to UK players, so that is not the reason in this instance.

    Whatever the reason is though, why can Turbine not communicate it to the players? Also, why is the exclusion of certain countries not stated clearly on the competition page rather than buried in the T&Cs?

    You can, of course, get around this and other issues very easily by licensing the game to a local company in each jurisdiction so they can run their own competitions and deal with all customer service in that country. You know, like Codemasters in the UK.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    459
    Quote Originally Posted by Alrarondir View Post
    There are no rules or laws in the UK which would prevent Turbine offering this competition to UK players, so that is not the reason in this instance.
    Someone mentioned that a significant time investment (leveling up to level 60) to enter the contest is, in some countries, considered having to pay to enter a contest, which then would make that contest illegal. I don't know if this is the case, but as this contest is not open to the UK while it is open in France, which is a change from most of the contests, I'd guess there is something that makes this one different.

    All that being said, I think Turbine should just use the blanket statement "Contest void where prohibited." and leave it at that. Don't list where it is or is not.
    Originally Posted by Damian6988
    That is not unlike drinking a pot of coffee and taking a Valium.
    "I want to stay up and get more work done, but I don't want to remember any of it."

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    459
    Quote Originally Posted by Alrarondir View Post
    So people should not even know if they are eligible or not? You're just being stupid now.
    Actually, what I meant was that would stop all the people from whinging about their countries not being included, there would be brand new complaints of course. The simple fact of the matter is that people love to complain. If they can't enter a contest, people complain about that. If they don't win, they complain about that. If they don't like the prizes, they complain about that too.

    And really, there is no reason to start with the name calling...
    Originally Posted by Damian6988
    That is not unlike drinking a pot of coffee and taking a Valium.
    "I want to stay up and get more work done, but I don't want to remember any of it."

 

 

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