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  1. #1

    New Class: Silvertounge

    Hello their LOTRO people! You are probably thinking "Hey it's that guy who thought of the ringbearer class! He came back? Does he have a death wish?" Yes it is me, yes I did come back, and I don't know referring to the last question. So lets get started.

    My Idea: Well, since I have heard the chatter that turbine may leave room for a new class I thought I might as well post my idea before the new class is created or turbine announces that the chatter was false and there will be NO new classes. So basically I designed a class that had the ability of Persuasion (the ability to turn enemies into pets for a short time) at first I called this class "The Ringbearer" and got a lot of hate for it. A few people said it was a good idea but they didn't like the name (it was called the ringbearer because the class would use one of the MANY minor rings to control the minds of their enemies.) So I decided to change the class name and its lore foundation. Saruman had the ability to mesmerize someone with his voice which he tried on our characters but failed. This is the basis of this class. I will continue in the paragraph below so this sentence here is your chance to leave and not be angered further if you already don't like my class idea. If you want to know more simply continue to read.

    Thanks!
    Synik Keenblade




    Lore: OK so the story of this class is, like Saruman, they have the abilities to mesmerize their foes and control them. They are called silvertounges because of just that, their suggestions are considered valuable by the ones they are mesmerizing so the enemies follow it.

    Class availability: This class would be playable by Elves and Men seeing as Dwarves and Hobbits are not the most soft-spoken people in Middle-Earth (Gimili screamed all the time and Merry and Pippin just couldn't stop talking). I would like for this class to be free but if that is not possible I suggest it be even or lower than the cost of the RK and Warden.

    Combat:As I said earlier this class would add a whole new prospect to the game. Basically this class would gain passive abilities throughout his leveling that would allow him to control certain types of enemies (Evil men=LVL10, Orcs=LVL20, etc.). He would be able to control enemies up to elite (He would have passive abilites that allow him obtain the ability to control swarm, normal, signature, and elite). His active abilities would be physical combat but also the tactical abilities. These abilities would be using his words to slowly mesmerize and confuse his enemies and build up Persuasion. These abilities would have different effects on his enemies, I will give an example of one below. These abilities would build up his Persuasion. For each point of Persuasion he would have a higher chance to mesmerize his enemies for a longer time (He cannot control his enemies forever, or he would have an army of normals). The Silvertounge would have a limit of controlling 5 enemies at one time and the longest he could control them would be 2 minutes. Now I know you are thinking "Does this class have a downside?" well I am glad you ask! That will be the next section.

    Ability Example:

    Confounding Philosophy
    You begin speaking of hard questions in Lore of Middle Earth,
    confusing your enemy and causing them to lose focus, making
    mesmerizing easier.
    Effects on enemy:
    +10% Attack Duration
    -20% In combat power regen
    Effects on player:
    +45% chance to Mesmerize this enemy for
    over 30 seconds

    Downside: Well here it is, the things we all HATE about our classes. Unfortunately for the tanks and champs out there, this class would sacrifice High DPS and Defense for the advantage of having minions. He would wear light armor, making him squishy. Lastly if the enemy he is mesmerizing is not killed within the time limit, the enemy will automatically attack the Silvertounge who controlled him out of rage and will not relent until struck down. Kind of stinks but hey, no class is perfect. And lastly, though it is kind of obvious, this class would not be able to control raid bosses even if they were elite or below. (Just imagine if we could control draigoch O.o).

    Weapons: This class would use only 1 handed weapons and could dual wield. He would be able to use a 2 handed sword but no other 2 handers. He would also only be able to use Crossbows.

    Trait lines: Well I am gonna say that there would most likely be 3 trait lines:
    Blue: Time: This trait line would increase how long you can control your oppenent
    Red: Damage: This would allow the player to increase the damage his mesmerized opponent does (This would also be a downside as that the increase damage would stay until the opponent is killed, making him do more damage to you when he wakes.)
    Yellow: Rank: This would make it easier for the Silvertounge to control higher ranks (Elite and Signature)

    Inspiration: Gandalf and Saruman
    Saruman: Had the ability to mesmerize with his words
    Gandalf: Was able to make his voice sound like others (the Trolls in the Hobbit (There and Back Again))

    Well that's my idea! Let me know what you think! (Although if you leave mean comments I may cry Q.Q). If there is anything I left out please let me know!

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragonkeeper5 View Post
    Hello their LOTRO people! You are probably thinking "Hey it's that guy who thought of the ringbearer class! He came back? Does he have a death wish?" Yes it is me, yes I did come back, and I don't know referring to the last question. So lets get started.

    My Idea: Well, since I have heard the chatter that turbine may leave room for a new class I thought I might as well post my idea before the new class is created or turbine announces that the chatter was false and there will be NO new classes. So basically I designed a class that had the ability of Persuasion (the ability to turn enemies into pets for a short time) at first I called this class "The Ringbearer" and got a lot of hate for it. A few people said it was a good idea but they didn't like the name (it was called the ringbearer because the class would use one of the MANY minor rings to control the minds of their enemies.) So I decided to change the class name and its lore foundation. Saruman had the ability to mesmerize someone with his voice which he tried on our characters but failed. This is the basis of this class. I will continue in the paragraph below so this sentence here is your chance to leave and not be angered further if you already don't like my class idea. If you want to know more simply continue to read.

    Thanks!
    Synik Keenblade




    Lore: OK so the story of this class is, like Saruman, they have the abilities to mesmerize their foes and control them. They are called silvertounges because of just that, their suggestions are considered valuable by the ones they are mesmerizing so the enemies follow it.

    Class availability: This class would be playable by Elves and Men seeing as Dwarves and Hobbits are not the most soft-spoken people in Middle-Earth (Gimili screamed all the time and Merry and Pippin just couldn't stop talking). I would like for this class to be free but if that is not possible I suggest it be even or lower than the cost of the RK and Warden.

    Combat:As I said earlier this class would add a whole new prospect to the game. Basically this class would gain passive abilities throughout his leveling that would allow him to control certain types of enemies (Evil men=LVL10, Orcs=LVL20, etc.). He would be able to control enemies up to elite (He would have passive abilites that allow him obtain the ability to control swarm, normal, signature, and elite). His active abilities would be physical combat but also the tactical abilities. These abilities would be using his words to slowly mesmerize and confuse his enemies and build up Persuasion. These abilities would have different effects on his enemies, I will give an example of one below. These abilities would build up his Persuasion. For each point of Persuasion he would have a higher chance to mesmerize his enemies for a longer time (He cannot control his enemies forever, or he would have an army of normals). The Silvertounge would have a limit of controlling 5 enemies at one time and the longest he could control them would be 2 minutes. Now I know you are thinking "Does this class have a downside?" well I am glad you ask! That will be the next section.

    Ability Example:

    Confounding Philosophy
    You begin speaking of hard questions in Lore of Middle Earth,
    confusing your enemy and causing them to lose focus, making
    mesmerizing easier.
    Effects on enemy:
    +10% Attack Duration
    -20% In combat power regen
    Effects on player:
    +45% chance to Mesmerize this enemy for
    over 30 seconds

    Downside: Well here it is, the things we all HATE about our classes. Unfortunately for the tanks and champs out there, this class would sacrifice High DPS and Defense for the advantage of having minions. He would wear light armor, making him squishy. Lastly if the enemy he is mesmerizing is not killed within the time limit, the enemy will automatically attack the Silvertounge who controlled him out of rage and will not relent until struck down. Kind of stinks but hey, no class is perfect. And lastly, though it is kind of obvious, this class would not be able to control raid bosses even if they were elite or below. (Just imagine if we could control draigoch O.o).

    Weapons: This class would use only 1 handed weapons and could dual wield. He would be able to use a 2 handed sword but no other 2 handers. He would also only be able to use Crossbows.

    Trait lines: Well I am gonna say that there would most likely be 3 trait lines:
    Blue: Time: This trait line would increase how long you can control your oppenent
    Red: Damage: This would allow the player to increase the damage his mesmerized opponent does (This would also be a downside as that the increase damage would stay until the opponent is killed, making him do more damage to you when he wakes.)
    Yellow: Rank: This would make it easier for the Silvertounge to control higher ranks (Elite and Signature)

    Inspiration: Gandalf and Saruman
    Saruman: Had the ability to mesmerize with his words
    Gandalf: Was able to make his voice sound like others (the Trolls in the Hobbit (There and Back Again))

    Well that's my idea! Let me know what you think! (Although if you leave mean comments I may cry Q.Q). If there is anything I left out please let me know!
    Gandalf and Saruman were valar... We are not.

    Sorry, but since we don't have the power of the valar in our blood, it would be lore breaking to add this.

    /not signed.

    Sorry, not a fan of big lore-breaks, and this is one...
    Did everyone get a bugged signature? My BB code doesn't work anymore
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by robbie1435 View Post
    Gandalf and Saruman were valar... We are not.
    They were Maiar, not Valar.

    But, /unsigned none the less.

  4. #4
    It's really just way too much like the Lore-master class.

    Interesting idea, but I don't think it merits an entire class. I could see giving some kind of 'control' or 'confusion' skills to LMs though. LMs are inspired by Gandalf, and I could see an LM performing similar "tricks" (like confusing the trolls you mentioned).
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by HaleElven View Post
    They were Maiar, not Valar.

    But, /unsigned none the less.
    In layman's terms, Maiar were a subdivision of the Valar.

    But I also agree. Lore-breaking and /unsigned.

    Besides, this sounds a little like a mix of an LM and a Burg.
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  6. #6
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    The idea is fun...but orcs don't seem to be very open to reason besides "WAAAAAAAGGGGHHHHHHH!!! KIILLY KILLY!" so they wouldn't make much sense ageist orcs.
    And wile the IDEA of the class is VERY fresh and new the skills outcome would not be, a DEBUFF class is more of a burglar and stuff, But still great with going into all the lore of LOTR to try to find ways to work this into the game!

    My idea for future classes would be to try to get original gameplay and role in the game, like people said we already HAVE tanks and ranged fighters, but the warden came along with his spear,shield and javelin in hand with his original gameplay make him stand out! same with the RK we already had healers and damage dealers but they broke the mole and were new!

    What I'd like to see is a class that can use bow/crossbows and swords, not like the hunter... more like they're MEANT to be both ranged AND Melee. the warden did it so if we could get class like that it'd be awesome!

    As I had said... I don't think this class would work but I DO respect the fact that you went into all the details of lore to fit them in so good job on that!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReadStar View Post
    I don't think this class would work but I DO respect the fact that you went into all the details of lore to fit them in so good job on that!
    I think the current classes are pretty good (three for each armour type, multiple for various roles, each unique and work well together), so I'm not saying more classes would be a bad thing. But the OP's class does not follow lore at all. It actually sounds like a cross between the Jedi's mind trick and a witch/wizard's Imperius Curse (Harry Potter reference, in case anyone isn't familiar with it). It doesn't have much of a role at all. Grima Wormtongue, not Saruman or Gandalf, would actually come to my mind at first. Anyone remember that session play when you are a prisoner in Isengard? Grima actually had a skill that resembled a burglar's skill and while you didn't actually use it for the session play, the tool-tip described its effects, IIRC. Saruman certainly was skilled with his words, but Grima got the nickname Wormtongue for a reason.

    And as Saruman and Gandalf are both Maiar, we wouldn't be able to play the class at all. Maiar are not elves, humans, dwarves or hobbits, and to introduce a playable god-like race of beings into this game (except for session plays where we could potentially play Gandalf or whomever) would be so unbelievably lore-breaking. At the time of these books, there were only 5 well-known Istari (Maiar spirits), two of which received only a passing glance: Saruman, Gandalf, Radagast, and the two blue wizards (I think there may be some dispute about what their names actually were, and definitely about their participation in the War of the Ring, though I have read about them being called Alatar and Pallando). Sauron was also one of the Maiar (not an Istari, the way I understand it).

    Additionally, I remember reading that Saruman was actually cast out of the order. The Istari were ordered to NOT dominate the people of Middle-Earth and they were not to directly attack Sauron (at least not using their own power in an attempt to overcome his power -- perhaps this is why Gandalf would not take the One Ring?). Saruman disobeyed that, enslaving people to his will.

    If anything, this type of class would belong creepside in the moors, if it existed at all, and even there it would be totally unfair to other players. And since there aren't a bunch of extra Istari floating around, it just wouldn't happen.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mar-Evayave View Post
    In layman's terms, Maiar were a subdivision of the Valar.

    But I also agree. Lore-breaking and /unsigned.
    Ummm... Actually.... The Valar and Maiar are both disjoint subsets of the Ainur and both belong to the subset of the Ainur that entered the World, Ea.

    Like the others splitting these particular hairs... /unsigned.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by ReadStar View Post
    The idea is fun...but orcs don't seem to be very open to reason besides "WAAAAAAAGGGGHHHHHHH!!! KIILLY KILLY!" so they wouldn't make much sense ageist orcs.
    One of the problems is that a number of the enemy agents like Orcs are not free willed. They are firmly under the control of Sauron.

    I do not recall (not having read all the lore) any attempts or success at breaking this control by Maiar like Gandalf against ordinary opponents. There is the Gandalf and King of Rohan incident which required considerable effort on Gandalf's part. Saruman was swept away by the power of Sauron. Gandalf did not have any success in his unpleasant encounter with Saruman at Orthnanc.

    It is not going to be possible for lesser beings like our characters to do something like this. This kind of power is Maiar specific. Primarily used by Sauron.

    It appears that folks like Gandalf are concerned that using this kind of power will corrupt them. I think the elf Galadriel talks some about this subject when discussing the one ring with Frodo.
    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by whheydt View Post
    Ummm... Actually.... The Valar and Maiar are both disjoint subsets of the Ainur and both belong to the subset of the Ainur that entered the World, Ea.

    Like the others splitting these particular hairs... /unsigned.
    That's pretty much what I said, only I didn't bring Eru and the Ainur at large into it. It was merely a comparison between the Valar and the Maiar. It's like comparing a square and a rectangle. A square is a rectangle, but a rectangle is not necessarily a square. A Maia is of the Valar, but not all of the Valar are Maiar.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty View Post
    It is not going to be possible for lesser beings like our characters to do something like this. This kind of power is Maiar specific. Primarily used by Sauron. [...] It appears that folks like Gandalf are concerned that using this kind of power will corrupt them. I think the elf Galadriel talks some about this subject when discussing the one ring with Frodo.
    And Saruman. Gandalf was undoubtedly concerned for that very thing, but I think it is also due to the instruction the Maiar received: they were not at all to dominate the free will of the peoples of Middle-Earth. Saruman broke that rule and was cast out of Valinor as a result.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mar-Evayave View Post
    I think the current classes are pretty good (three for each armour type, multiple for various roles, each unique and work well together), so I'm not saying more classes would be a bad thing. But the OP's class does not follow lore at all. It actually sounds like a cross between the Jedi's mind trick and a witch/wizard's Imperius Curse (Harry Potter reference, in case anyone isn't familiar with it). It doesn't have much of a role at all. Grima Wormtongue, not Saruman or Gandalf, would actually come to my mind at first. Anyone remember that session play when you are a prisoner in Isengard? Grima actually had a skill that resembled a burglar's skill and while you didn't actually use it for the session play, the tool-tip described its effects, IIRC. Saruman certainly was skilled with his words, but Grima got the nickname Wormtongue for a reason.

    And as Saruman and Gandalf are both Maiar, we wouldn't be able to play the class at all. Maiar are not elves, humans, dwarves or hobbits, and to introduce a playable god-like race of beings into this game (except for session plays where we could potentially play Gandalf or whomever) would be so unbelievably lore-breaking. At the time of these books, there were only 5 well-known Istari (Maiar spirits), two of which received only a passing glance: Saruman, Gandalf, Radagast, and the two blue wizards (I think there may be some dispute about what their names actually were, and definitely about their participation in the War of the Ring, though I have read about them being called Alatar and Pallando). Sauron was also one of the Maiar (not an Istari, the way I understand it).

    Additionally, I remember reading that Saruman was actually cast out of the order. The Istari were ordered to NOT dominate the people of Middle-Earth and they were not to directly attack Sauron (at least not using their own power in an attempt to overcome his power -- perhaps this is why Gandalf would not take the One Ring?). Saruman disobeyed that, enslaving people to his will.

    If anything, this type of class would belong creepside in the moors, if it existed at all, and even there it would be totally unfair to other players. And since there aren't a bunch of extra Istari floating around, it just wouldn't happen.
    Very true, I beleave sense Sarumon turned evil the istari took away his power and Gandalf who then filled the ''white'' role, Which is why he could do that awesome "Sarumon your staff is broken" thing right?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReadStar View Post
    Very true, I beleave sense Sarumon turned evil the istari took away his power and Gandalf who then filled the ''white'' role, Which is why he could do that awesome "Sarumon your staff is broken" thing right?
    It's been a while since I last read that particular passage, but that sounds vaguely accurate. Saruman was basically being stripped of his authority and magical power. The only thing he had left was his skill to twist words and confuse others. And even that failed him in the end. And Gandalf was the one who enforced that punishment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mar-Evayave View Post
    That's pretty much what I said, only I didn't bring Eru and the Ainur at large into it. It was merely a comparison between the Valar and the Maiar. It's like comparing a square and a rectangle. A square is a rectangle, but a rectangle is not necessarily a square. A Maia is of the Valar, but not all of the Valar are Maiar.
    They are "of" the Valar in the sense that they serve the Valar, but Maiar are not Valar themselves, nor are Valar Maiar.
    Vala and Maia are two distinct categories of the Ainur, categories which were evidently made by Elves and Men to distuingish the 14 (or 15, depending) most important/powerful ones from the rest. They don't seem to call themselves Valar nor Maiar and are just "Ainur" to each other as far as we can read, though they do acknowledge a varying amount of leadership and authority from these Valar over the rest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BirdofHermes View Post
    They don't seem to call themselves Valar nor Maiar and are just "Ainur" to each other as far as we can read, though they do acknowledge a varying amount of leadership and authority from these Valar over the rest.
    I don'r think that's true, it's just that they're seldom quoted verbatim at all. But when they are, the Valar do refer to themselves collectively by that name (as in the Doom of Mandos).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU View Post
    I don'r think that's true, it's just that they're seldom quoted verbatim at all. But when they are, the Valar do refer to themselves collectively by that name (as in the Doom of Mandos).
    Just checked, and so he does. My mistake.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BirdofHermes View Post
    They are "of" the Valar in the sense that they serve the Valar, but Maiar are not Valar themselves, nor are Valar Maiar.
    Vala and Maia are two distinct categories of the Ainur, categories which were evidently made by Elves and Men to distuingish the 14 (or 15, depending) most important/powerful ones from the rest. They don't seem to call themselves Valar nor Maiar and are just "Ainur" to each other as far as we can read, though they do acknowledge a varying amount of leadership and authority from these Valar over the rest.
    From what I have read, Tolkien specifically stated that the Maiar are the kin of the Valar, but have a lesser power. And yes, they do also serve the various Valar. And the Maiar and Valar together are Ainur. As both factions are of the Ainur, they are like distant cousins (in the most basic sense of things). The Maiar are not fixed to a certain form, either. They seem to be like shape-shifters in that they are divine beings who can take on many forms. Melkor (of the Valar) corrupted various Maiar (such as Sauron and the balrogs). Sauron and the balrogs are examples of the Maiar, just as much as Gandalf, Saruman, Radagast, and the two blues.

    At times I have wondered where Beorn and Tom Bombadil fall into place. Speculation is wild, but Beorn in particular does have some characteristics of the Maiar, in that he can shape-shift. I think Gandalf speculated that Beorn was the last of an ancient race that has been killed off by the goblins in the Misties. And as for Tom, well, your guess is as good as mine. Many have thought he might also be of the Maiar, and that together with Goldberry they were the embodiment of the land and nature -- I guess like Old Father Time in Narnia. It seems probable, if for no other reason than their control of the land they live in and the fact that he was the only one in Middle-Earth who was unaffected by the Ring.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mar-Evayave View Post
    At times I have wondered where Beorn and Tom Bombadil fall into place. Speculation is wild, but Beorn in particular does have some characteristics of the Maiar, in that he can shape-shift. I think Gandalf speculated that Beorn was the last of an ancient race that has been killed off by the goblins in the Misties. And as for Tom, well, your guess is as good as mine. Many have thought he might also be of the Maiar, and that together with Goldberry they were the embodiment of the land and nature -- I guess like Old Father Time in Narnia. It seems probable, if for no other reason than their control of the land they live in and the fact that he was the only one in Middle-Earth who was unaffected by the Ring.
    Neither of them really fit in with anything else, because they weren't written to. Beorn's emphatically a Man (Tolkien confirmed this in a letter), with the skin-changing reflecting the fact that The Hobbit was originally written as a stand-alone fairy-tale, and also well before Tolkien had decided that shape-shifting was a characteristic of the Ainur. As for Tom Bombadil, he defies categorisation (he was purposely intended as an enigma - again, one of Tolkien's letters confirms that)..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU View Post
    Neither of them really fit in with anything else, because they weren't written to. Beorn's emphatically a Man (Tolkien confirmed this in a letter), with the skin-changing reflecting the fact that The Hobbit was originally written as a stand-alone fairy-tale, and also well before Tolkien had decided that shape-shifting was a characteristic of the Ainur. As for Tom Bombadil, he defies categorisation (he was purposely intended as an enigma - again, one of Tolkien's letters confirms that)..
    *hugs The Hobbit* Don't call it a fairy-tale! *cries* xD
    R5 100 GRD Marevayave - Leader of [U][B]Riddermark[/B][/U]ed For Death
    R8 100 MNS Fayah/100 LM Siennah/100 HNT Dinenol/100 RK Dhurik
    100 CHN Alachas/85 CPT Dinfaerien/60 BUR Dhax/35 WDN Godoric
    R9 100 MNS Fayeh (alt Wilya) - Lonely Mountain Band @ [U][B]Landroval[/B][/U]

  19. #19
    Why? New shinies for the sake of new shinies is dumb. There needs to be a need for a new class beyond your ADD.
    "The LOTRO Store will offer convenience, not advantage." -Patience
    "These pots are only available in the store and they are not available via crafting. Nor do we have any plans for this to change right now." -Frelorn

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mar-Evayave View Post
    From what I have read, Tolkien specifically stated that the Maiar are the kin of the Valar, but have a lesser power. And yes, they do also serve the various Valar. And the Maiar and Valar together are Ainur. As both factions are of the Ainur, they are like distant cousins (in the most basic sense of things). The Maiar are not fixed to a certain form, either. They seem to be like shape-shifters in that they are divine beings who can take on many forms. Melkor (of the Valar) corrupted various Maiar (such as Sauron and the balrogs). Sauron and the balrogs are examples of the Maiar, just as much as Gandalf, Saruman, Radagast, and the two blues.
    Correct, which is exactly why Valar are not Maiar and Maiar are not Valar. It's like bacon and pork sausages (I'm hungry, sorry for the poor analogy). They're both food items, they're both from the same animal (and both delicious), but the bacon is no sausage, nor is the sausage bacon. They are very alike in that they have much more in common with each other than with say, a lamp post. But their name alone already defines their fundamental difference, in the same way that Maiar and Valar are different; they're very similar but one can't be the other.
    They're both pork and they're both Ainur.

    edit: that last sentence is one I never imagined I'd type.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
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    4,660
    Quote Originally Posted by BirdofHermes View Post
    Correct, which is exactly why Valar are not Maiar and Maiar are not Valar. It's like bacon and pork sausages (I'm hungry, sorry for the poor analogy). They're both food items, they're both from the same animal (and both delicious), but the bacon is no sausage, nor is the sausage bacon. They are very alike in that they have much more in common with each other than with say, a lamp post. But their name alone already defines their fundamental difference, in the same way that Maiar and Valar are different; they're very similar but one can't be the other.
    They're both pork and they're both Ainur.

    edit: that last sentence is one I never imagined I'd type.
    :P Now I'm hungry! Shame on you for spreading your hunger! xD

    I thought of it, in terms of kin, as being like cousins. They are not in the same exact family, but they both descended from the same ancestor, only more close than that (since they are neither sausages or cousins). I saw it best described as Maiar being lesser, distant variations of the Valar, in that they are less power.
    R5 100 GRD Marevayave - Leader of [U][B]Riddermark[/B][/U]ed For Death
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    R9 100 MNS Fayeh (alt Wilya) - Lonely Mountain Band @ [U][B]Landroval[/B][/U]

  22. #22
    http://askmiddlearth.tumblr.com/post...alar-and-maiar



    From that site:

    Okay, so here’s how it works. Iluvatar created the Ainur, these incredibly powerful spirits. Of those who went down into Arda/the world (some decided to stay with Iluvatar, and are just called Ainur), the Valar are the fourteen most powerful Ainur, and all the rest of the Ainur are called the Maiar. So all Valar are Ainur, but not all Ainur are Valar.

    About Morgoth and the Istari. Morgoth would have been one of the Valar, but since he was evil, he doesn’t count. But he’s still one of the Ainur. And the Istari were a special group of Maiar.
    [CENTER] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/landroval/mosby/"][COLOR=cyan]Mosby[/COLOR][/URL], Founder of [URL="http://www.thepalantiri.net"][COLOR=gold]The Palantíri[/COLOR][/URL] kinship (Landroval) - [URL="http://lotro-charts.tumblr.com/"]LotRO Charts Tumblr[/URL] - [URL="https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Category:Translations"]Runes & Translations[/URL]

    [COLOR=Silver][I]As glides in seas the shark, Rides Mosby through green dark.[/I] -Melville[/COLOR]
    [/CENTER]

 

 

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