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  1. #1
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    New skill trees and completed class deeds?

    Cam anybody tell me what will be happening about class deeds we have already completed before the new skill tree system comes in? Some of us have been using XP disablers to stay at certain levels for on-level area questing until we finish the area then we all level up together. I understand that under the new system we get 1 skill point on each odd level, but some of us are still at level 10 yet have already completed about 8 class trait deeds! What happens to us, do we get awarded skill points for them despite being 'under level' in the new system or do we lose all the work we have done earning them already? This only affects one of my characters, but I am still concerned that all the hours I spent earning those traits (months in fact) might now be wasted!

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by podgie_bear View Post
    Cam anybody tell me what will be happening about class deeds we have already completed before the new skill tree system comes in? Some of us have been using XP disablers to stay at certain levels for on-level area questing until we finish the area then we all level up together. I understand that under the new system we get 1 skill point on each odd level, but some of us are still at level 10 yet have already completed about 8 class trait deeds! What happens to us, do we get awarded skill points for them despite being 'under level' in the new system or do we lose all the work we have done earning them already? This only affects one of my characters, but I am still concerned that all the hours I spent earning those traits (months in fact) might now be wasted!
    Your existing trait deeds will grant you skill points. You may even get some bonus skill points depending on which deeds you've done (because finishing 3 specific class deeds gives you a bonus skill point). Your Class quests will also grant points.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crell_1 View Post
    Your existing trait deeds will grant you skill points. You may even get some bonus skill points depending on which deeds you've done (because finishing 3 specific class deeds gives you a bonus skill point). Your Class quests will also grant points.
    OK, so if I get credited with 8 skill points now at level 10, what happens over the next dozen levels, I get more skill points or none until I reach a level at which I would be entitiled to a ninth skill point? Because obviously I am not going to be able to gain skill points by earning them as we did before if I am using the XP disabler? So is the disabler now a liability and I wasted TP buying it since the game is now changed to discourage its use? Is there any official word on use of disablers and how the game has now changed to be based around XP earned rather than effort made by the player in grinding deeds? Does crafting XP count towards class deeds if they are now based on character level?

    I would hate to be able to virtually earn most of my class deeds at a crafting bench!

  4. #4
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    Trait points from levels and other sources are totally independent.

    So, in your example, you'd continue gaining trait points as you level up. To have 8 trait points at level 10, you'd have 2 points from levels (every other level, first point at level 7), and 6 from deeds (hard, but I guess it could happen). At level 11, you'd get another point for a total of 9: 3 from levels, 6 from deeds.
    [b][SIZE=3][COLOR="#FFFFFF"]Cainwen Ciaphas[/COLOR][/SIZE][/b][COLOR="#C3C3C3"], Captain of Crickhollow, [url=http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Literature/CiaphasCain]HERO OF MIDDLE EARTH[/url]!!!
    [i]I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered![/i] My opinions are my own![/color]

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by furtim View Post
    Trait points from levels and other sources are totally independent.

    So, in your example, you'd continue gaining trait points as you level up. To have 8 trait points at level 10, you'd have 2 points from levels (every other level, first point at level 7), and 6 from deeds (hard, but I guess it could happen). At level 11, you'd get another point for a total of 9: 3 from levels, 6 from deeds.
    Not hard at all, when we use XP disablers which a group of us do all the time. But me question is now that I have 8 skill points at level 10, what happens at levels, 11, 13, 15,17, etc. It must get balanced somewhere or I end up with a bonus 8 skillpoints others don't get by the time I reach level cap!

  6. #6
    You will never get extra point that others wont get, at level 10 for you,you are getting 2 from levels (which everyone gets) and the 6 are from class deeds which everyone gets as well, it doesn't matter if you get your deeds done at level 10 or 95, there is only a set amount of points you can get from deeds. I am not sure how you got confused with extra points.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sumadyan View Post
    You will never get extra point that others wont get, at level 10 for you,you are getting 2 from levels (which everyone gets) and the 6 are from class deeds which everyone gets as well, it doesn't matter if you get your deeds done at level 10 or 95, there is only a set amount of points you can get from deeds. I am not sure how you got confused with extra points.
    Exactly. The points from levels and points from deeds are 100% independent from one another. You don't stop earning trait points from deeds just because you've reached level 95.
    [b][SIZE=3][COLOR="#FFFFFF"]Cainwen Ciaphas[/COLOR][/SIZE][/b][COLOR="#C3C3C3"], Captain of Crickhollow, [url=http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Literature/CiaphasCain]HERO OF MIDDLE EARTH[/url]!!!
    [i]I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered![/i] My opinions are my own![/color]

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by furtim View Post
    Exactly. The points from levels and points from deeds are 100% independent from one another. You don't stop earning trait points from deeds just because you've reached level 95.
    So if they are independent of each other, are there 2 seperate types of skill points for the new skill trees? I was under the impressioon that they were given to everybody on odd number levels? And that the max numer at level 85 was 55 skill points?

    This is confusing, maybe someone should write a simple easy to understand explanation of what is happening with the new system. An explanation aimed at new players maybe so anyone can understand what to expect from the new system?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by podgie_bear View Post
    So if they are independent of each other, are there 2 seperate types of skill points for the new skill trees? I was under the impressioon that they were given to everybody on odd number levels? And that the max numer at level 85 was 55 skill points?

    This is confusing, maybe someone should write a simple easy to understand explanation of what is happening with the new system. An explanation aimed at new players maybe so anyone can understand what to expect from the new system?
    Edit
    Check this post, it explains it a lot better than I did: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...83#post6985383
    /Edit

    I'm not sure what is tripping you up here... let me try to see if I can explain it.

    Starting at level 7, you get one point every two levels. Once you reach level 95 you will have 45 skill points solely from this ((95 - 5) / 2 = 45). This would assume that you never did anything else that grants a skill point.

    There are other things that give you skill points too, things like the class deed meta-deeds (complete 3 specific class deeds for each meta-deed, each meta-deed gives you get one point), also the deeds for collecting pages for your class specific books give you a skill point now, not a skill, I think some of the level specific class quests give you a point now as well. These skill points behave exactly the same as any other skill points. They do not detract from the 45 you get specifically from leveling, they are in addition to these.
    Last edited by Rainith; Nov 06 2013 at 10:54 PM. Reason: Found a better explanation
    Originally Posted by [B]Damian6988[/B]
    [B][I]That is not unlike drinking a pot of coffee and taking a Valium.
    "I want to stay up and get more work done, but I don't want to remember any of it."[/I][/B]

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainith View Post
    Edit
    Check this post, it explains it a lot better than I did: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...83#post6985383
    /Edit

    I'm not sure what is tripping you up here... let me try to see if I can explain it.

    Starting at level 7, you get one point every two levels. Once you reach level 95 you will have 45 skill points solely from this ((95 - 5) / 2 = 45). This would assume that you never did anything else that grants a skill point.

    There are other things that give you skill points too, things like the class deed meta-deeds (complete 3 specific class deeds for each meta-deed, each meta-deed gives you get one point), also the deeds for collecting pages for your class specific books give you a skill point now, not a skill, I think some of the level specific class quests give you a point now as well. These skill points behave exactly the same as any other skill points. They do not detract from the 45 you get specifically from leveling, they are in addition to these.
    Thanks for that, it will be easier once I can actually see how it will work instead of trying to imagine it. I have been used to the present system since launch and have obviously got stuck in a mental rut. Though I am disappointed that we seem to be getting the skill points for doing nothing at all (or most of them). Even less to earn in game now? Oh well, can't say I am surprised anymore.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by podgie_bear View Post
    Thanks for that, it will be easier once I can actually see how it will work instead of trying to imagine it. I have been used to the present system since launch and have obviously got stuck in a mental rut. Though I am disappointed that we seem to be getting the skill points for doing nothing at all (or most of them). Even less to earn in game now? Oh well, can't say I am surprised anymore.
    Huh, skill points for doing nothing - Where did you read that from?

    Basically at level 95 there is a total of 60 points to spend on the tree, 45 come from leveling your toon and 15 come from "deeds". No one earns 'extra points', everyone is able to earn these 60 points

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Ullr_of_Aesir View Post
    Huh, skill points for doing nothing - Where did you read that from?

    Basically at level 95 there is a total of 60 points to spend on the tree, 45 come from leveling your toon and 15 come from "deeds". No one earns 'extra points', everyone is able to earn these 60 points
    Cool. Do you know what the deeds are?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Hothoen View Post
    Cool. Do you know what the deeds are?
    The new deeds are just groupings of the existing class deeds.

    I only glanced at the deeds when I logged into Bullroarer, so I don't remember the exact groupings and the following is just an example and may not be exact. Let's say the earliest available LM deeds: Master of the Staff, Power and Wisdom, and Light of Hope are a grouped under a deed. Once all three are finished, I get a trait point for it.

    In other words, work on any unfinished deeds now to have more trait points available when HD launches.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ullr_of_Aesir View Post
    Huh, skill points for doing nothing - Where did you read that from?

    Basically at level 95 there is a total of 60 points to spend on the tree, 45 come from leveling your toon and 15 come from "deeds". No one earns 'extra points', everyone is able to earn these 60 points
    So what are the 45 points then? Or are they replacing the class trainers in someway?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by podgie_bear View Post
    So what are the 45 points then? Or are they replacing the class trainers in someway?
    The 45 points are what you get when you level automatically.... I can't figure out where you're getting hung up on this. (Sorry if that sounds harsh, it isn't meant to, I'm frustrated that I can't figure out what the problem is, not that you can't figure it out.)

    When you hit level 7... *ding* you get the swirly tree graphic effect, you get the text telling you that you've hit level 7 and you get 1 skill point. Repeat every other level until level 90 and you have a total of 45 points. As stated, many times before, the other points come from other things.

    The class trainers, they used to train skills and sell you class specific items. Now they just sell stuff.
    Originally Posted by [B]Damian6988[/B]
    [B][I]That is not unlike drinking a pot of coffee and taking a Valium.
    "I want to stay up and get more work done, but I don't want to remember any of it."[/I][/B]

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainith View Post
    The 45 points are what you get when you level automatically.... I can't figure out where you're getting hung up on this. (Sorry if that sounds harsh, it isn't meant to, I'm frustrated that I can't figure out what the problem is, not that you can't figure it out.) .............................. ...........The class trainers, they used to train skills and sell you class specific items. Now they just sell stuff.
    That was the bit I was trying to figure out. Why we were getting the 45 points and how it affected what we got from class trainers. So class trainers have now virtually gone the way of Rep NPCs, obsolete, so the only reason to even have them anymore is as specialist vendors? Or do we still get some skills from them, such as the skills that everyone in the class gets that are not included in a 'tree'?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by podgie_bear View Post
    That was the bit I was trying to figure out. Why we were getting the 45 points and how it affected what we got from class trainers. So class trainers have now virtually gone the way of Rep NPCs, obsolete, so the only reason to even have them anymore is as specialist vendors? Or do we still get some skills from them, such as the skills that everyone in the class gets that are not included in a 'tree'?
    You will get all your skills automatically without visiting a trainer - some just by levelling up, and some when you unlock them by spending trait points.

    The class trainers serve as specialist vendors, and will probably still give you your class quests, but other than that they (as well as bards) are obsolete.

  18. #18
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    If i remember correctly my proper minstrel who had done all her deeds and class deeds had 55 points at level 85. The recently levelled one had 40 from levelling as calculations provided show plus 5 . So more throughly played= more points. Costs 1 point to get a tier 1 trait.

    The deeds to provide additional points from 85-95 are tied to Helms Deep expansion. But you will still get points for simply levelling.

    More points by deeding means being able to capstone one tree in a spec and spend a few points on traits in another tree, at level 85. The offspec costs 2 points per trait. This is the incentive to get deeds done now.

    It's actually really easy to understand when the trees are in front of you. It's very similar in principle to the Mounted Combat tree system, but not as simple because there are more variants as you go up/down the trees spending points. But the ui is pretty straightforward.
    Last edited by Calta; Nov 08 2013 at 09:29 AM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ertr View Post
    You will get all your skills automatically without visiting a trainer - some just by levelling up, and some when you unlock them by spending trait points.

    The class trainers serve as specialist vendors, and will probably still give you your class quests, but other than that they (as well as bards) are obsolete.
    Since Rep NPC are obsolete and been removed, class trainers are now obsolete (except as vendors which could be combined with any other vendor), bards are now obsolete. Is there any reason to visit towns at all anymore? Oh, there is still crafting guilds I suppose, but they could be the next to be made obsolete, or moved to housing areas, then we would never have to visit a town again, lol.

    Still I am grateful that I can probably avoid ever going into Bree again, that place is awful and my framerate drops from 30+fps down to 1-2fps as soon as I enter the gate (even dropping all graphics setting to absolute minimum) and has done ever since they revamped it!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calta View Post
    If i remember correctly my proper minstrel who had done all her deeds and class deeds had 55 points at level 85. The recently levelled one had 40 from levelling as calculations provided show plus 5 . So more throughly played= more points. Costs 1 point to get a tier 1 trait.

    The deeds to provide additional points from 85-95 are tied to Helms Deep expansion. But you will still get points for simply levelling.

    More points by deeding means being able to capstone one tree in a spec and spend a few points on traits in another tree, at level 85. The offspec costs 2 points per trait. This is the incentive to get deeds done now.

    It's actually really easy to understand when the trees are in front of you. It's very similar in principle to the Mounted Combat tree system, but not as simple because there are more variants as you go up/down the trees spending points. But the ui is pretty straightforward.
    Bards are not obsolete if I remember correctly..you still have to use them for your virtues.

 

 

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