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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by MessyR View Post
    There not nice unfortunatly
    I disagree. Given creeps a lot more versatility and variety in builds now. I see a lot of reavers traiting 6 crit for RvR so they can heal. The 6 resistance bonus is amazing for RvR, basically an instant debuff/bleed cleanse every 2s. Physical mit 6 bonus has potential, but the 10s cd ruins it. I'd make it a 30s duration buff with a 5s cooldown, so being focussed allows you to do more damage/healing. The mastery 6 bonus...well, I can see some ba's and reavers using that with certain macros....Crit protect 6 bonus is useless lol.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moors-Battlemaster View Post
    I disagree. Given creeps a lot more versatility and variety in builds now. I see a lot of reavers traiting 6 crit for RvR so they can heal. The 6 resistance bonus is amazing for RvR, basically an instant debuff/bleed cleanse every 2s. Physical mit 6 bonus has potential, but the 10s cd ruins it. I'd make it a 30s duration buff with a 5s cooldown, so being focussed allows you to do more damage/healing. The mastery 6 bonus...well, I can see some ba's and reavers using that with certain macros....Crit protect 6 bonus is useless lol.
    The resist cleanse bonus has an internal cooldown. Forget if it's 1.5 or 2 minutes.

    Also you only get ~10 seconds to use it before it expires, and they had a LOT of sorting out to do on what exactly it was supposed to clear. They asked us in a survey "is it cleansing properly?" without clarifying anywhere what it was or what it was not supposed to clear. Many of us answered "how are we supposed to answer that?" As of last time testing it, it didn't take of such things as the "untyped warden bleeds that crit for 5.5k", for instance.

    I'm not knocking the extra slots. They open up some good builds. The set boni are mostly meh.


    Even my Signature is trolling!

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sezneg View Post
    The resist cleanse bonus has an internal cooldown. Forget if it's 1.5 or 2 minutes.

    Also you only get ~10 seconds to use it before it expires, and they had a LOT of sorting out to do on what exactly it was supposed to clear. They asked us in a survey "is it cleansing properly?" without clarifying anywhere what it was or what it was not supposed to clear. As of last time testing it, it didn't take of such things as the "untyped warden bleeds that crit for 5.5k", for instance.
    Well then that bonus is instantly useless lol. I guess I'll be going 4 morale 2 crit 3 tact mit 3 phys mit for RvR on weaver then...but yes, far more versatility for all classes now.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moors-Battlemaster View Post
    And in this update 1 hunter can one shot most creeps. Rune-keepers can blow through 50k morale in seconds. LM's are nearly invincible. Guards are juggernaughts (skill pun intended). Stickeez stated it took 10 minutes to kill a captain. That's with 3 r15 creeps, and I don't doubt Stickeez as a player. I am expecting nothing less than freep domination. And I welcome it.
    Yeah, hunters could one-shot in book 6 too. I had my share. But it was never like you heard on the forums. For me to one shot back then, I had to be traited a certain way to do it which made me crazy vulnerable in other ways, and it had to be a HS, which of course has a big yellow X telling the target the shot was coming. For every 10 shots, I'd one-shot once, typically a low to mid ranked BA.

    What actually happened in practice was you'd burn hot, and the spider would burrow, or the warg would hips, and the others would LOS and they'd kill you when BH was down cause you were out of power. It killed the stupid and the slow and the new. But not much else. Swiftbow was actually the true OP skill, and that one didn't one-shot on its own, but with some focus fire it was devastating.

    I've seen the LM thing, that's crazy, agreed. I'm sure there will be a ton on new LM's out just like there were defilers in the beginning of ROR. Same players too probably. But the rest? I'm thinking it's going to be similar, alot of crying from the criers, some actual OP stuff under the right circumstances, but not the Armageddon being predicted.

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowlock View Post
    Yeah, hunters could one-shot in book 6 too. I had my share. But it was never like you heard on the forums. For me to one shot back then, I had to be traited a certain way to do it which made me crazy vulnerable in other ways, and it had to be a HS, which of course has a big yellow X telling the target the shot was coming. For every 10 shots, I'd one-shot once, typically a low to mid ranked BA.
    You never duoed with a cappy then did you? Telling+To Arms+Oathies=instant dead creep. What you need to understand is while one shots might not be common, the dps spike of hunters and rk's in HD will be insane. 5 shot is bad enough, and that's what it's looking like at the moment. Creep healing was not scaled anywhere near enough to counter this, except the CD reduction on WL Quitters.

    Also, HS was too slow. ISB and merc shot in burn hot was the destruction skill. Perhaps you had a different time on Vilya than I had on Brandywine. Or perhaps you weren't the best of hunters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowlock View Post
    What actually happened in practice was you'd burn hot, and the spider would burrow, or the warg would hips, and the others would LOS and they'd kill you when BH was down cause you were out of power. It killed the stupid and the slow and the new. But not much else. Swiftbow was actually the true OP skill, and that one didn't one-shot on its own, but with some focus fire it was devastating.
    Because there were never any other freeps around to distract them and everyone only noticed the hunter. FYI, one shotting was still possible in Mirk as a hunter, with Burn hot not breaking camo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowlock View Post
    I've seen the LM thing, that's crazy, agreed. I'm sure there will be a ton on new LM's out just like there were defilers in the beginning of ROR. Same players too probably. But the rest? I'm thinking it's going to be similar, alot of crying from the criers, some actual OP stuff under the right circumstances, but not the Armageddon being predicted.
    We will see in a few weeks then won't we?

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moors-Battlemaster View Post
    You never duoed with a cappy then did you? Telling+To Arms+Oathies=instant dead creep.
    Hey, it's me! Of course I did! I met Troi (Jhingle) during book 6 after all. We were like the only two freeps out in the moors then; like level 57. LM named Tedallalion was there too alot. Falrendir and Xenephobe a bit later; course then word got about and like 10,000 hunters showed up.

    Oathies same thing as HS though, smart creeps run, hips burrow, get bubbled. See the thing no one seems to remember is also during book six, they nerfed raid pts, so all the creeps went solo so they didn't have the support to work together or watch each others back (least on alot of servers, idk about bw which groups more than most others) so no one was looking to help you. You died more solo to this than grouped.

    What you need to understand is while one shots might not be common, the dps spike of hunters and rk's in HD will be insane. 5 shot is bad enough, and that's what it's looking like at the moment. Creep healing was not scaled anywhere near enough to counter this, except the CD reduction on WL Quitters.
    Could be. All I'm saying is beta is no indication of what live will be like, especially since freeps will be slow to come out.

    Also, HS was too slow. ISB and merc shot in burn hot was the destruction skill. Perhaps you had a different time on Vilya than I had on Brandywine. Or perhaps you weren't the best of hunters.
    Remember to play nice now little zergling. lol

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowlock View Post
    Hey, it's me! Of course I did! I met Troi (Jhingle) during book 6 after all. We were like the only two freeps out in the moors then; like level 57. LM named Tedallalion was there too alot. Falrendir and Xenephobe a bit later; course then word got about and like 10,000 hunters showed up.
    Oathies same thing as HS though, smart creeps run, hips burrow, get bubbled. See the thing no one seems to remember is also during book six, they nerfed raid pts, so all the creeps went solo so they didn't have the support to work together or watch each others back (least on alot of servers, idk about bw which groups more than most others) so no one was looking to help you. You died more solo to this than grouped.

    I remember Moria quite well Snow, 1/3 of my spiders 6000 deaths came during that 3 month period spanning 80k infamy. Not great times for creepside.

    And how do you think the massive DPS increase will affect RvR? As it stands, it requires immense focus WL and defiler (3+) healing to save a creep from fraid focus fire. Failure to scale heals well+mass increase to freep dps=recipe for disaster.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowlock View Post
    Could be. All I'm saying is beta is no indication of what live will be like, especially since freeps will be slow to come out.
    Indeed, freeps will take their time. Had 85 hunters on beta destroying creeps with the new trait trees, so I'm not hopeful there. Again, time will tell, but I'm not being optimistic. Remember Kiddefence at 75 this xpac annhilating creeps 1v1? Play still makes the biggest difference, just with forth coming changes, it seems even bad players can do well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowlock View Post
    Remember to play nice now little zergling.
    We should 1v1 tomorrow night. If I'm such a zergling you'll have no problem beating me, right?

  8. #158
    those reaver skills changes look..interesting. the wrath change in particular. seems as if reavers will be OP, or would be if this wasnt gonna be moria 2.0 lol

    15 second dust though <3
    Lugbur, R11 Reaver ./. Guthfred, R9 Captain ./. Guthblade, R9 Chamption ./. Muzluck, R9 Warg + Various other toons of different rank and class.

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moors-Battlemaster View Post
    I remember Moria quite well Snow, 1/3 of my spiders 6000 deaths came during that 3 month period spanning 80k infamy. Not great times for creepside.
    So? Dying in the moors is part of pvmp. If you did 2000 times then you either played alot or fell into one of the three other categories I described earlier. You must've been fairly low ranked. Low ranks die. Book 6 wouldn't change that one way or another.

    And how do you think the massive DPS increase will affect RvR?
    Not much, we'll still lag out.

    As it stands, it requires immense focus WL and defiler (3+) healing to save a creep from fraid focus fire.
    So you don't feel focus healing should be needed to counter focus fire.

    Indeed, freeps will take their time. Had 85 hunters on beta destroying creeps with the new trait trees, so I'm not hopeful there. Again, time will tell, but I'm not being optimistic. Remember Kiddefence at 75 this xpac annhilating creeps 1v1? Play still makes the biggest difference, just with forth coming changes, it seems even bad players can do well.
    Yah, same kind of hyperbole I heard during book 6 about 50 freeps doing the same thing. Then we come to find out the extenuating circumstances. I'll reserve judgement until I see it live. Not saying you're wrong necessarily. Just not willing to say the sky is falling just yet.

    We should 1v1 tomorrow night. If I'm such a zergling you'll have no problem beating me, right?
    But what if I LOS you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moors-Battlemaster
    You LOS, I call in help. Easy
    /wink

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowlock View Post
    Yeah, hunters could one-shot in book 6 too. I had my share. But it was never like you heard on the forums. For me to one shot back then, I had to be traited a certain way to do it which made me crazy vulnerable in other ways, and it had to be a HS, which of course has a big yellow X telling the target the shot was coming. For every 10 shots, I'd one-shot once, typically a low to mid ranked BA.

    What actually happened in practice was you'd burn hot, and the spider would burrow, or the warg would hips, and the others would LOS and they'd kill you when BH was down cause you were out of power. It killed the stupid and the slow and the new. But not much else. Swiftbow was actually the true OP skill, and that one didn't one-shot on its own, but with some focus fire it was devastating..
    Sounds like you were using a bow, instead of sticking with a cross bow. This was back before the weapon speed normalization, when choosing the much slower crossbow outperformed a bow (higher damage numbers even with same DPS due to weapon speed), even if the bow was a few item levels higher.

    PS: swiftbow did kill on its own vs lower morale classes when the crit dice came up.


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  11. #161
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    My warg won´t leave gram wihout five warleaders in front of him :x
    Last edited by OverlordGate; Nov 15 2013 at 10:21 PM.
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  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowlock View Post
    So you don't feel focus healing should be needed to counter focus fire?
    two defilers are not enough to Counter heal the damage of a single (!) captain (!)

    how many defilers / warleaders would be needed for a 12 Person freep raid? 30? this is ridiculous... (again...)
    Second Marshall Maywyn Eorthas of Rohan - Captain - Rank 13

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  13. #163
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    Reavers perm Wrath??? You wot m8?

    40s VT CD?

    10 sec Moving target ( including 30 sec duration )

    Massive

    in b4 nerf

    in b4 BA/RVR is OP

    in b4 PVMP is too fast.







    Dat above reaver skills! Atomic power.... End ... End has come...
    Last edited by Melunielsigh; Nov 16 2013 at 02:11 AM.

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowlock View Post
    So? Dying in the moors is part of pvmp. If you did 2000 times then you either played alot or fell into one of the three other categories I described earlier. You must've been fairly low ranked. Low ranks die. Book 6 wouldn't change that one way or another.
    There was no difference in survival between a r6 and a r10 in Moria, battlefield promotions weren't around, you should know that. Most creeps that PvP'ed during that era have abnormally large amounts of deaths on their tabs

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowlock View Post
    Not much, we'll still lag out.
    I'm glad you've acknowledged both sides will lag out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowlock View Post
    So you don't feel focus healing should be needed to counter focus fire.
    Let's look at ratios.
    4 healing rks + 4 captains can keep an entire freep raid up vs even numbers.
    8 WL's + 4 defilers will struggle to keep up creeps vs an entire freep even numbers, with most attempts resulting in failure unless bubbled or the creep is able to kite successfully.
    8 healers vs 12. And freeps wonder why creeps bring more numbers?

    I think focus healing should be the counter to focus fire, absolutely, but creep healing has not scaled at needs a boost at present. I have always argued for a 3rd short CD heal for WL's and slightly higher numbers for certain skills.


    Quote Originally Posted by Snowlock View Post
    Yah, same kind of hyperbole I heard during book 6 about 50 freeps doing the same thing. Then we come to find out the extenuating circumstances. I'll reserve judgement until I see it live. Not saying you're wrong necessarily. Just not willing to say the sky is falling just yet.
    You must be hearing some strange stuff, done it wrong, or you have selective memory. Moria launch was not a good time for creeps, it was the most imbalanced PvP had been since launch. That is agreeable by most.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowlock View Post
    But what if I LOS you?
    Then you're putting yourself at a massive disadvantage and I will laugh as you die. I take it you're backing away then, it's okay, I'm using to people being all talk, as you have shown.


    Quote Originally Posted by Melunielsigh View Post
    Reavers perm Wrath??? You wot m8?

    40s VT CD?

    10 sec Moving target ( including 30 sec duration )

    Massive

    in b4 nerf

    in b4 BA/RVR is OP
    I pray this is sarcasm

    Quote Originally Posted by Melunielsigh View Post
    in b4 PVMP is too fast.
    100% correct, PvMP is to fast paced. Book's 12-14 gave PvP a lovely pace. It's gone downhill since then. All about getting points as quickly as possible now. /sigh

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moors-Battlemaster View Post
    There was no difference in survival between a r6 and a r10 in Moria
    What creeps were R10 in book 6?

    4 healing rks + 4 captains can keep an entire freep raid up vs even numbers.
    8 WL's + 4 defilers will struggle to keep up creeps vs an entire freep even numbers, with most attempts resulting in failure unless bubbled or the creep is able to kite successfully.
    So bubble them or kite successfully. I don't see your problem. These are skills and attributes creeps need to use because they are different than freeps. But the creep argument doesn't make sense to me because you seem to be saying that you don't want to have to use these skills and attributes? If not, play freep. Or Minecraft.

    Regarding freep healing. It can be countered. If you are having issues with countering it, then maybe the solution is to change your tactics instead of just bringing in overwhelming numbers. Either challenge yourself or come to the conclusion that you lack the ability. A monkey can bring in overwhelming numbers and win and beat their chests and think they're special. But to me, he's still just a monkey.

    Oh, and target forwarding should be turned off, I agree with your inference.

    I take it you're backing away then, it's okay, I'm using to people being all talk, as you have shown.
    You seem to have missed the point, our ability to spin around in a circle and hit 1,2,3 isn't going to remove this label for you. My suggestion is, just stop doing it.
    Last edited by Snowlock; Nov 16 2013 at 01:51 PM.

  16. #166
    Strobe, I don't know who you are but arguing with Evil about who thinks what is just and right in the moors is like trying to drink a river dry.

    The way I see it imagine being Winston Churchill and walking up to big old H and stating that putting people in camps and slaughtering isn't right. Some people are too blind to see their own actions, issues, passions and obsessions.

    I would be so bold as to say many Witch King members no matter how loyal to evil would agree that he is a little off the edge (assuming they know our entire history). 80% most likely don't know, 10% don't care, and the other 10% most likely care but just use him to get points and rank up.

    Honorable 1v1's? Evil is the most renown on our server and perhaps any who know him for zerging 1v1 circles with full raids or ganking them.

    Handle dying? Perhaps one of the only people in the game to play the double bubble log out game and still think himself worthy to talk about traditions and honor on the server.

    As Evil himself pointed out a few threads above he lives off not the joy of the game but the tears of others. People that lash out are often those that really have issues. So I recommend that you leave Evil here to talk to himself, frankly I find it amusing seeing him quote me and change what I wrote.

    The only reason he has the ability to post is because he continually makes new forum accounts and forums mods are too silly to notice it or handle it.
    Yelk, Hunter| Rank 15 | Gladden | Leader of Shock and Awe
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  17. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowlock View Post
    What creeps were R10 in book 6?
    We had several rank 9's and if I'm not mistaken at least a pair of rank 10 creeps during early Moria on E (Cowlick I believe was Rank 10 at launch?).

    You missed the point however; rank did nothing for survival. Once you had your passives and access to rank 2 corruptions you were as tough as you were going to get outside of ~180 mitigation rating here or there from racial traits.

    Your response here is a dodge. Until BFP were released in RoI, there was no real difference in terms of survival for creeps based on ranks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowlock View Post
    So bubble them or kite successfully. I don't see your problem. These are skills and attributes creeps need to use because they are different than freeps. But the creep argument doesn't make sense to me because you seem to be saying that you don't want to have to use these skills and attributes? If not, play freep. Or Minecraft.
    I take from your reply here you likely do not take part in the larger sized fights he's describing.
    Last edited by Isdring; Nov 16 2013 at 09:56 PM.


    Even my Signature is trolling!

  18. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melunielsigh View Post
    40s VT CD?
    If you think the 40s cd of VT is OP...well what can i say

    [Tangaar Captain R 7][Barukhazad Minstrel R 9]

  19. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sezneg View Post
    We had several rank 9's and if I'm not mistaken at least a pair of rank 10 creeps during early Moria on E (Cowlick I believe was Rank 10 at launch?) You missed the point however.
    The only creeps E had close to r10 at launch were former Vilyans and they were 9's; unless maybe Badman was 10. The point is, I wouldn't recommend trying to prove a point with something that didn't exist. And even if there were one or two scattered across alllll of the servers, that would hardly make for any meaningful comparison. Besides, you must not remember back then as clearly as I do if you don't recall the fact that low ranks were easier to kill than high ranks. For a number of reasons.

    I take from your clueless reply here you likely do not take part in the larger sized fights he's describing.
    Nope, never been in a large fight.

  20. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowlock View Post
    The only creeps E had close to r10 at launch were former Vilyans and they were 9's; unless maybe Badman was 10. The point is, I wouldn't recommend trying to prove a point with something that didn't exist. And even if there were one or two scattered across alllll of the servers, that would hardly make for any meaningful comparison. Besides, you must not remember back then as clearly as I do if you don't recall the fact that low ranks were easier to kill than high ranks. For a number of reasons.
    This is ridiculous.

    In every defensive statistic, a rank FIFTEEN = a Fully set up rank 5 at the time of Moria Launch.

    Rank in no way protected us from being 1-shot.


    Even my Signature is trolling!

  21. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowlock View Post
    What creeps were R10 in book 6?
    Plenty on Brandywine, I am aware Vilya was quiet.



    Quote Originally Posted by Snowlock View Post
    So bubble them or kite successfully. I don't see your problem. These are skills and attributes creeps need to use because they are different than freeps. But the creep argument doesn't make sense to me because you seem to be saying that you don't want to have to use these skills and attributes? If not, play freep. Or Minecraft.
    Trouble is, it is not possible to kite successfully if freeps focus and co-ordinate CC. You should try creepside some time Snow, HD sounds like the perfect time. Show us all how it's done.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowlock View Post
    Regarding freep healing. It can be countered. If you are having issues with countering it, then maybe the solution is to change your tactics instead of just bringing in overwhelming numbers. Either challenge yourself or come to the conclusion that you lack the ability. A monkey can bring in overwhelming numbers and win and beat their chests and think they're special. But to me, he's still just a monkey.
    In 24v24 freep healing can be countered? No way. Target forward healing can be countered. Good freep healers cannot. Perhaps once you play with a good freep raid Snow, seeing as you've alienated yourself from most good players, you will realise just how strong it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowlock View Post
    Oh, and target forwarding should be turned off, I agree with your inference.
    Oh good

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowlock View Post
    You seem to have missed the point, our ability to spin around in a circle and hit 1,2,3 isn't going to remove this label for you. My suggestion is, just stop doing it.
    If you think 1v1's are just that, maybe it explains your ability. And listen to your own advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by YesMaam View Post
    Loads of mad cuz bad trash
    Lawl Yelp, not gonna bother addressing your points. All I can say is, your kin is loyal to the gear you get them, not to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by YesMaam View Post
    Loads of mad cuz bad trash
    Lawl Yelp, not gonna bother addressing your points. All I can say is, your kin is loyal to the gear you get them, not to you.

    See you leading freep zergs in HD!

  22. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moors-Battlemaster View Post
    Plenty on Brandywine, I am aware Vilya was quiet.
    Lol, no.

    Trouble is, it is not possible to kite successfully if freeps focus and co-ordinate CC.
    Its the same freepside.

    In 24v24 freep healing can be countered? No way. Target forward healing can be countered. Good freep healers cannot. Perhaps once you play with a good freep raid Snow, seeing as you've alienated yourself from most good players, you will realise just how strong it is.
    Izzatright...

    If you think 1v1's are just that, maybe it explains your ability.
    How does it go, the kids these days with their sayings say it.. trollolol? C'mon dude, you think that kind of d-list taunting is going to work on me?

    Stickeez, tone down your rhetoric if you want me to respond.

  23. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moors-Battlemaster View Post
    All I can say is, your kin is loyal to the gear you get them, not to you.
    See you leading freep zergs in HD!
    Please, if that's all we are after, we would have left 6 months ago to join Latina. I got all the golds, much much love baby.
    Bunnytail |Terminus Venatus Triumphus
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  24. #174
    poor old squelcher made this thread about beta discussion and now its turning into Brandywine ongoing discussion. I've lost the plot.

  25. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrackleNackle View Post
    poor old squelcher made this thread about beta discussion and now its turning into Brandywine ongoing discussion. I've lost the plot.
    ^This

    Will you guys take your argument to the Brandywine forums where it belongs?
    I've been at the mercy of men just following orders. Never again.

 

 
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