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  1. #751
    Quote Originally Posted by Calta View Post
    3. -stance icons are now different for each stance and heal stance has blue icon -so there will be less confusion with names.
    Wouldn't it make sense for the heal stance to have a green icon, and the Melody stance have a blue icon? Or is this yet more fallout of the "melody as healing" line on live vs "melody as hybrid" in beta as stated in dev diary and the confusion that continues because of the change in its usage? That would align the green stance icon with the major ballad and the blue stance icon with the (power-based) ballad (sorry, never could keep minor and perfect ballad straight for their usage just by name alone).

    Not directed at you Calta, it's for the dev.

  2. #752
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    Quote Originally Posted by Namesse View Post
    Wouldn't it make sense for the heal stance to have a green icon, and the Melody stance have a blue icon? Or is this yet more fallout of the "melody as healing" line on live vs "melody as hybrid" in beta as stated in dev diary and the confusion that continues because of the change in its usage?

    Not directed at you Calta, it's for the dev.
    Yes it would and I may well have got it backwards myself! But they are diferent! LOL At least you can tell which you are in, now. At this point these little things are keeping me from 'spitting the dummy' completely.

    PS edited my original post as i could wrong about the colour/stance combination
    Last edited by Calta; Nov 07 2013 at 03:25 AM.

    And the minstrel sang to them……”and they passed in thought out to regions where pain and delight flow together and tears are the very wine of blessedness.”

  3. #753
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    Quote Originally Posted by furtim View Post
    I admit I let myself get baited, and I already reported my own posts (yes, really),...
    Stopped reading there...
    “A hunted man sometimes wearies of distrust and longs for friendship.”

  4. #754
    Quote Originally Posted by zagreb000 View Post
    Good thing it isnt gazillions... Then i would be sincerely concerned....

    Versatility has been destroying the game so far... I was thrilled when they announced the changes... Kill the versatility pls! Kill it with fire!
    I am afraid that no, not the versatility has been destroying the game so far... was the grind, farm and bad scaled content since U9. Not being able to adapt the classes to the actual content will make us go back to the holy trinity, dedicated healer, dedicated tank and random dps but aoe preferable. I am ok, i have 2 healers and warden, but what about dps classes who will have less chances to join. Until now the cappy was able to heal/tank an 3 man instance, not he will not be able to do both.

    From now on, my healing experience will be: ballad, ballad, ballad. one anthem. BC BC BC BC BC, having NO OTHER things to do because i dont have other skills to use in my healing stance. Will have to go in yellow meh line and hope that I will be able to compensate my lack of healing with my experience so I can buff a little and not being so bored.

    About the number, was an exageration ofc. But I was talking about the other topics as well, maybe not availabe for you...
    Last edited by andracy; Nov 07 2013 at 05:05 AM.
    Andracy - Mns; Andrady - RK; Andrac - Hnt; Andracya - Brg; Gabytza - LM; Anduta - Warden
    Officer of Rangers of Eriador / Snowbourne

  5. #755
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palentian View Post
    Sorry, "polite and accurate dissent" is not silenced. Threats, name calling and the like is. Its in the Community Guidelines.
    A general beta fatigue reaction from me-
    The following listed behaviours are much more damaging over time to polite discourse and an atmosphere of general respect than the odd insult, in the heat of the moment, ever is, in my opinion. In my experience, as a professional workplace dispute moderator, overt conflict is often easier to 'hose down' and ultimately resolve, than passive agressive behaviour. The subtle provocations of these 'stirrers' often produces the toxic atmosphere and any resultant insults/acting out by the genuinely upset.....

    So:
    talking about things one has no first hand experience of,
    insinuating the worst about other players but not actually stating it,
    pretending to have special insight and the right to muzzle debate, as if one is a forum mod,
    spouting opinions about matters that no player has the facts about, simply to provoke already upset people
    I wish those were bannable offenses, I truly do.

    And the minstrel sang to them……”and they passed in thought out to regions where pain and delight flow together and tears are the very wine of blessedness.”

  6. #756
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lohi View Post
    Except that big battles isn't really making use of class roles much, certainly not requiring every single character to be able to do a non-dps role. It was pretty much a foregone conclusion from the time it was announced that any level 10 player in a big battle would be mainly moderate DPS or moderate support, but people kept thinking that big battles were some sort of traditional raid requiring everyone to play at their peak performance. Even in a skirmish raid I suspect you could take a scaled up level 10 character and be useful, all they have to do is attack the target assist most of the time, maybe throw out a scaled up heal or buff (yes, characters have some of these by level 10). And nothing in the system was ever going to force someone to group with another player who doesn't know the class, yet that was the worry I was seeing between the lines.
    That's one thing i find weird about the class changes, the class roles are made more distinctive but in the Epic Battle one of them isn't used at all and a second is diminished.
    Generally the changes would have mode more sense if the Epic Battles would support each role equally.
    Nothing here matters.

  7. #757
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorwyn99 View Post
    That's one thing i find weird about the class changes, the class roles are made more distinctive but in the Epic Battle one of them isn't used at all and a second is diminished.
    Generally the changes would have mode more sense if the Epic Battles would support each role equally.
    Wouldn't have worked, as the item upscaling can make characters extremely unbalanced. A character with upscaled 85 gear has completely overpowered primary stat values (dps classes with close to 200% damage from masteries, tanks with overcapped mitigations and over 40k morale) compared to a fully 95 geared character (with mostly balanced primary stat and vitality), so they had to render class effects mostly irrelevant, the 5-10 extra trait points couldn't compensate such a difference. As I said before, the class changes, even though the most debated change in HD, are actually the least concerning change to me compared to Epic Battles system, itemization scheme and overall balancing.
    Last edited by Grimdi; Nov 07 2013 at 06:15 AM.
    Used to play: 85 Champ / Captain / Runekeeper / Guardian, Guild Master of everything but cooking.
    Playing now: Hellcat / King Tiger / GW Panther / IS / KV-5 / M4 Sherman and more

  8. #758
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    Quote Originally Posted by andracy View Post
    I am afraid that no, not the versatility has been destroying the game so far... was the grind, farm and bad scaled content since U9. Not being able to adapt the classes to the actual content will make us go back to the holy trinity, dedicated healer, dedicated tank and random dps but aoe preferable. I am ok, i have 2 healers and warden, but what about dps classes who will have less chances to join. Until now the cappy was able to heal/tank an 3 man instance, not he will not be able to do both.
    Oh, im afraid it has... You have certain self heal/tank/dps classes soloing raid skirmishes, facerolling 3-mans on t2, soloing whole instances of 50-60 mobs in one pull, 2-3 god mode classes in PvMP.... This just destroyed the grouping experience... Had they increased the instance difficulty, you would have some classes being challenged and some classes not being able to play because of the blatant unbalance.... Atm there is a huge gap in quality between classes, with a number of classes being able to do absolutely everything at the same time and some classes being left behind because of how their class is designed.... This new trait system creates a new base for equality and makes it easier for the devs to create content.... Thats IMO, extremely positive

    This game was made as a holy trinity game... They wandered from the original idea which created the problem in which we are in...

    Even though versatility was the biggest problem in the last 2 expansion its obvious there are still other things that need to be fixed....



    Quote Originally Posted by andracy View Post
    From now on, my healing experience will be: ballad, ballad, ballad. one anthem. BC BC BC BC BC, having NO OTHER things to do because i dont have other skills to use in my healing stance. Will have to go in yellow meh line and hope that I will be able to compensate my lack of healing with my experience so I can buff a little and not being so bored.
    You have 2 skills to use in your healing stance.... I mean really... If you said 5 or 6, id say ok... But youre just inviting me to call you a liar...

    Hmm, my guardian could never dps, or buff, or self heal while tanking but i never got bored... Creeps dont have so many skills at their disposal but i hardly ever hear them say they are bored....

    Cant you switch between specs when you get bored, right on the fly? Theres a RK in your group:" hey im bored of this, wanna heal for a while"? Its so simple...

    Its a mystery why you misrepresent the situation just so you can paint a bad picture of the changes... Im all for objective criticism, but i see no objectivity in your post...
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  9. #759
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zombielord View Post
    Hm ... and why not just removed the 24 skills you were not using from your toolbars? If you can live witout them you wont miss them and those who want to use them still can.
    I wish people would stop trying to make this argument. Nobody is going to purposefully gimp their character. All skills that are available have to be on a skillbar somewhere. Having skills removed through coding vs having skills removed via voluntary player action are not the same thing, at all.
    Freeps: Venusia (Guardian), Silya (RK), Dwayr (Champion), Nissys (Captain), Filodon (Burgler), Tyveil (Lore-master)
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  10. #760
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyveil View Post
    I wish people would stop trying to make this argument. Nobody is going to purposefully gimp their character. All skills that are available have to be on a skillbar somewhere. Having skills removed through coding vs having skills removed via voluntary player action are not the same thing, at all.
    Uh huh, people seems love to stick the phrase "If you cannot use them all, remove them then" and wave it around as if it was their magic wand.

    The problem is not about having so many skills that players cannot use them all. The problem lies at how many skills just lie on your bars for weeks, months and even years for the purpose "just in case", contributes very a little to overall playstyle (like the skill-reset skill "Deep Breath" of Guardian: the concept of using "oh carp" skills twice is nice, but I rather to have it as something more useful and can be used frequently than having it just occupying a slot as a very rare-to-use skill).

    Moreover, it also causes difficulties to developers who want to add more and balance skills, both pve and pvmp.

  11. #761
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimdi View Post
    Wouldn't have worked, as the item upscaling can make characters extremely unbalanced. A character with upscaled 85 gear has completely overpowered primary stat values (dps classes with close to 200% damage from masteries, tanks with overcapped mitigations and over 40k morale) compared to a fully 95 geared character (with mostly balanced primary stat and vitality), so they had to render class effects mostly irrelevant, the 5-10 extra trait points couldn't compensate such a difference. As I said before, the class changes, even though the most debated change in HD, are actually the least concerning change to me compared to Epic Battles system, itemization scheme and overall balancing.
    That would look like a problem in the scaling mechanism though. It seems weird to build the instance around not using your class skills because the scaling is out of whack.
    It would seem more logical to me to work on the scaling first.
    Nothing here matters.

  12. #762
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyveil View Post
    I wish people would stop trying to make this argument. Nobody is going to purposefully gimp their character. All skills that are available have to be on a skillbar somewhere. Having skills removed through coding vs having skills removed via voluntary player action are not the same thing, at all.
    Agreed. Having tons of skills very often leads to the situation when you need to use 5 skills to kill boss 1, another 5 skills to kill boss 2, yet another 5 skills to kill boss 3 and if boss 3 casts Whaterver spell then you need to use yet another 5 skill to counteract it. No. It's getting cumbesome and not funny at certain point. You have to spent a lot of time to google, try, learn, adjust, etc... and for what??? Perhaps someone finds it very intertaining, but for me it is something which does not play along in RPG.

  13. #763
    Quote Originally Posted by evguenil View Post
    Agreed. Having tons of skills very often leads to the situation when you need to use 5 skills to kill boss 1, another 5 skills to kill boss 2, yet another 5 skills to kill boss 3 and if boss 3 casts Whaterver spell then you need to use yet another 5 skill to counteract it. No. It's getting cumbesome and not funny at certain point. You have to spent a lot of time to google, try, learn, adjust, etc... and for what??? Perhaps someone finds it very intertaining, but for me it is something which does not play along in RPG.
    Thus making the solution dumbing down to the point of mashing a few buttons for all situations. Hmmm. Sounds really exciting.
    Estellost, loving husband of the wonderful Shinarra

  14. #764
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorwyn99 View Post
    That would look like a problem in the scaling mechanism though. It seems weird to build the instance around not using your class skills because the scaling is out of whack.
    It would seem more logical to me to work on the scaling first.
    The scaling itself is fine. The three different itemization schemes (pre-RoI, RoI-RoR, HD and beyond) combined with the ridiculous item levels in HD are the issue. Each of the changes is "solving" an isolated issue, but there is no overall concept how it all works together:
    - Class changes: claimed to reinforce specialized roles, can be true to some degree
    - High item level: supposed to give people a feeling of significant progression from new rewards (lets face it: in RoR many were using most their 75 gear even after they reached 85, as intermediate gear was inferior)
    - New stat balancing on gear: kinda necessary due to other changes (reduced survival skills on dps classes, removal of threat management skills, but mostly simplifying overall balancing for devs)
    - Upscaling low-level players in Epic Battles: kinda tricky to sell an expansion to new people if they can't play it for months (and the old scaling model didn't work out really)

    Each by itself is ok. If you combine all of them however it's a total mess. At the very least you'd have to normalize the different itemization schemes and rebalance _all_ content around it and the class revamps. Can't see that happening though, as updating/replacing thousands of existing items manually is a huge effort. It's symptomatic for the whole game, conceptual changes are often seen in isolation and/or only applied in the current content, mechanics once introduced are usually only seeing minimal maintenance. Even though it has been ackowledged in beta that existing content will need significant updates due to the class revamp I doubt we'll see more than minor punctual changes in scaled instances and old landscape content.
    To me it's a sign of either bad internal organization/leadership and/or severly missing development resources for achieving the desired goals.
    Used to play: 85 Champ / Captain / Runekeeper / Guardian, Guild Master of everything but cooking.
    Playing now: Hellcat / King Tiger / GW Panther / IS / KV-5 / M4 Sherman and more

  15. #765
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyveil View Post
    I wish people would stop trying to make this argument. Nobody is going to purposefully gimp their character. All skills that are available have to be on a skillbar somewhere. Having skills removed through coding vs having skills removed via voluntary player action are not the same thing, at all.
    This, I have to disagree with. When my LM got a new Sign of Power: Wizards X, that was more powerful than the one I got when he was level 8, the level 8 skill went in the trash can. But I sure HAD TO HAVE IT for levels 8 through 32 or whatever it was before Turbine consolidated the skills about two years ago. When I got a new more powerful Sticky Gourd from traiting ISG, I sure as heck did not wish I still had both, but I also SURE AS ALL HECK had to have it when I was not traited with the red capstone.

    Just because an end level player does not need a skill does not mean that it is not useful to a level 1-49 player.. Oh, wait.. yes it does because I should just spend the 5K Turbine points in the Store and auto-level to Moria. PFT, like that would increase my enjoyment of the landscape before Moria.

  16. #766
    Quote Originally Posted by zagreb000 View Post
    Oh, im afraid it has... You have certain self heal/tank/dps classes soloing raid skirmishes, facerolling 3-mans on t2, soloing whole instances of 50-60 mobs in one pull, 2-3 god mode classes in PvMP.... This just destroyed the grouping experience... Had they increased the instance difficulty, you would have some classes being challenged and some classes not being able to play because of the blatant unbalance.... Atm there is a huge gap in quality between classes, with a number of classes being able to do absolutely everything at the same time and some classes being left behind because of how their class is designed.... This new trait system creates a new base for equality and makes it easier for the devs to create content.... Thats IMO, extremely positive

    This game was made as a holy trinity game... They wandered from the original idea which created the problem in which we are in...

    Even though versatility was the biggest problem in the last 2 expansion its obvious there are still other things that need to be fixed....


    You have 2 skills to use in your healing stance.... I mean really... If you said 5 or 6, id say ok... But youre just inviting me to call you a liar...

    Hmm, my guardian could never dps, or buff, or self heal while tanking but i never got bored... Creeps dont have so many skills at their disposal but i hardly ever hear them say they are bored....

    Cant you switch between specs when you get bored, right on the fly? Theres a RK in your group:" hey im bored of this, wanna heal for a while"? Its so simple...

    Its a mystery why you misrepresent the situation just so you can paint a bad picture of the changes... Im all for objective criticism, but i see no objectivity in your post...
    I am sad because from what we should post here, we transformed this into our personal battle. Also making me an liar is also sad. I know my class very good, and probabily you, not knowing lot about healers, may not understand good the picture. Also i finished all content in Lotro on every tier and CH and also i healed some tanks at my life ... and i know what ppl wanted until now:

    An good healer is doing what he is asked to do: healing.
    An awesome healer will do other things as well. healing and Buffing

    Depending the content, I was choosing offensive anthems or defensive anthems.
    Ops, the tank lost aggro. An smart healer will use Call to greatness to you.
    Oh, i forgot some mobs when kiting, i hope that healer will loose his aggro. Yes, I had skills to use them to make your tanking easier. ANthem of compasion, song of s., etc.
    Oh, I am tanking the trolls in lightning wing in Ortanc and i have no block response. Lucky the healer is playing song of aid to help me.
    Oh, can you remove please the corruption from LT? SUre, since minstrel was best coruption removal imo.
    Or please ranged remove coruption from trolls in F&F.
    Change the tale, me as tank i am using too much power. Or i want more vit, i am feeling squishy.

    See, is a lot of stuff you may not be aware, but the one behind you was doing them and make all the life easier. Now, i will be an bot. Healing bot. I will only do healing. And yes, basicaly i have one skill. BC. Is so powerful and with 1,2-1,6 induction critting up to 10k will be the skill used 90%. I dont need anything else more.
    Yes, i will be bored. I cannot buff since i got no points to enter in yellow line to acces anthems.

    I dont make any bad picture. The reality ... well you will see the reality soon. And trust me ... you will want that healers to have the same versatility they had until now. Remember, they are healing you hehe.
    Andracy - Mns; Andrady - RK; Andrac - Hnt; Andracya - Brg; Gabytza - LM; Anduta - Warden
    Officer of Rangers of Eriador / Snowbourne

  17. #767
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nilatir View Post
    I've always pondered...if a Leisure Suit Larry MMO existed would players still complain about grinding?

    I laughed in RL when I read this. ROFL!!!!!
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
    Continuing the never ending battle to keep Lobelia Sackville-Baggins in check

  18. #768
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimdi View Post
    The scaling itself is fine. The three different itemization schemes (pre-RoI, RoI-RoR, HD and beyond) combined with the ridiculous item levels in HD are the issue. Each of the changes is "solving" an isolated issue, but there is no overall concept how it all works together:
    - Class changes: claimed to reinforce specialized roles, can be true to some degree
    - High item level: supposed to give people a feeling of significant progression from new rewards (lets face it: in RoR many were using most their 75 gear even after they reached 85, as intermediate gear was inferior)
    - New stat balancing on gear: kinda necessary due to other changes (reduced survival skills on dps classes, removal of threat management skills, but mostly simplifying overall balancing for devs)
    - Upscaling low-level players in Epic Battles: kinda tricky to sell an expansion to new people if they can't play it for months (and the old scaling model didn't work out really)

    Each by itself is ok. If you combine all of them however it's a total mess. At the very least you'd have to normalize the different itemization schemes and rebalance _all_ content around it and the class revamps. Can't see that happening though, as updating/replacing thousands of existing items manually is a huge effort. It's symptomatic for the whole game, conceptual changes are often seen in isolation and/or only applied in the current content, mechanics once introduced are usually only seeing minimal maintenance. Even though it has been ackowledged in beta that existing content will need significant updates due to the class revamp I doubt we'll see more than minor punctual changes in scaled instances and old landscape content.
    To me it's a sign of either bad internal organization/leadership and/or severly missing development resources for achieving the desired goals.
    Ok i guess i can see that, maybe an arbitrary scaling system would have been better, giving you fixed stats if you're below 95. Seems this whole thing might get "interesting" later on though.

    But anyways still weird to have this class change then have a system that so little promotes the use of distinct speccs but the dps one, especially to bring out both at the same time.
    (I'm basing that only on the duo versions, maybe the higher group sizes do involve class based tanking and healing, i haven't tried.)
    Last edited by Thorwyn99; Nov 07 2013 at 10:21 AM.
    Nothing here matters.

  19. #769
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    When people say "no one asked for this", they overlook how many times people have made this same type of comment that you're making here. It's something we had seen a lot of in various forms. Everything from there are too many skills, to the skills felt weak, or when we increased the cap there were complaints that there was nothing new just unexciting 'enhanced' skills or that when people took a break they came back to a screen filled with skills they couldn't remember how to use.

    All of that feedback sent a very clear message.

    People ask for lots of things but it does not mean Turbine is able to deliver them. The class changes have clearly been a resource-intensive undertaking, if you had a much larger dev team you may have been better placed to tackle such an ambitious project but unfortunately I feel that you have set yourself up for a very large fall.

    I was very sceptical of the class changes initially but after considering things for a while I do see some merit in the changes. Unfortunately we are now just over a week away from launch and some classes/lines are still in a state one would expect they should be when entering beta, not when it is almost finished!

    Hats off to the devs for trying etc. and I think they've done the best job they can in the time they have had but I still think the outcome of what goes live will simply not be good enough to win over your customers. If an equivalent amount of dev time had gone in to actual content rather than class changes I expect this expansion would have been much more successful.

    If you consider all the 'systems' added to the game at the expense of new content:

    Legendary Items
    Inspired greatness
    Skirmishes
    Scalable instances
    Relic Overhall
    Removal of stat caps
    Phasing
    'Wolf's cleft technology'
    Mounted Combat & warbands
    Hytbold System
    Instance loot revamp
    Fate Revamp (what a debacle this one was!)
    Big Battles System
    Character Class Revamps with HD
    Further stat (and sat-cap) adjustments with HD

    STOP Adding new half-baked 'systems' and revamping stuff that is fine and concentrate on producing new and engaging content.... Many consider SoA to have provided the best time during the game and I dont think any of the above were present then!

  20. #770
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calta View Post
    A general beta fatigue reaction from me-
    The following listed behaviours are much more damaging over time to polite discourse and an atmosphere of general respect than the odd insult, in the heat of the moment, ever is, in my opinion. In my experience, as a professional workplace dispute moderator, overt conflict is often easier to 'hose down' and ultimately resolve, than passive agressive behaviour. The subtle provocations of these 'stirrers' often produces the toxic atmosphere and any resultant insults/acting out by the genuinely upset.....

    So:
    talking about things one has no first hand experience of,
    insinuating the worst about other players but not actually stating it,
    pretending to have special insight and the right to muzzle debate, as if one is a forum mod,
    spouting opinions about matters that no player has the facts about, simply to provoke already upset people
    I wish those were bannable offenses, I truly do.
    In general I agree. There's a host of behavior it would be nice to have on the violation list. Or we could make it simpler and go with "Don't violate Wheaton's Law". Ah well.

  21. #771
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhoris_they_spider View Post
    People ask for lots of things but it does not mean Turbine is able to deliver them. The class changes have clearly been a resource-intensive undertaking, if you had a much larger dev team you may have been better placed to tackle such an ambitious project but unfortunately I feel that you have set yourself up for a very large fall.

    I was very sceptical of the class changes initially but after considering things for a while I do see some merit in the changes. Unfortunately we are now just over a week away from launch and some classes/lines are still in a state one would expect they should be when entering beta, not when it is almost finished!

    Hats off to the devs for trying etc. and I think they've done the best job they can in the time they have had but I still think the outcome of what goes live will simply not be good enough to win over your customers. If an equivalent amount of dev time had gone in to actual content rather than class changes I expect this expansion would have been much more successful.

    If you consider all the 'systems' added to the game at the expense of new content:

    Legendary Items
    Inspired greatness
    Skirmishes
    Scalable instances
    Relic Overhall
    Removal of stat caps
    Phasing
    'Wolf's cleft technology'
    Mounted Combat & warbands
    Hytbold System
    Instance loot revamp
    Fate Revamp (what a debacle this one was!)
    Big Battles System
    Character Class Revamps with HD
    Further stat (and sat-cap) adjustments with HD

    STOP Adding new half-baked 'systems' and revamping stuff that is fine and concentrate on producing new and engaging content.... Many consider SoA to have provided the best time during the game and I dont think any of the above were present then!
    You forgot, among others:

    Radiance
    Finesse
    Corruptions ( I think the last corruption I had cast on me, other than Raid bosses, was in Mirkwood.)

    Umm.. what other systems have already been rolled back, except, of course, they still exist for the mobs that were built during the time?
    Last edited by Darlgon; Nov 07 2013 at 10:39 AM.

  22. #772
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    Quote Originally Posted by Namesse View Post
    Wouldn't it make sense for the heal stance to have a green icon, and the Melody stance have a blue icon? Or is this yet more fallout of the "melody as healing" line on live vs "melody as hybrid" in beta as stated in dev diary and the confusion that continues because of the change in its usage? That would align the green stance icon with the major ballad and the blue stance icon with the (power-based) ballad (sorry, never could keep minor and perfect ballad straight for their usage just by name alone).

    Not directed at you Calta, it's for the dev.

    Umm... NO class has a green trait line that I know of. They are all Yellow (Support Heavy), Red (DPS) and Blue (Main Function of Class except DPS, where it was their secondary, ie Tanking/Healing.) Have been since I started playing this game. At least they kept that with the new trait trees.

  23. #773
    Quote Originally Posted by NaktiesKarys View Post
    Could any HD tester share experience about Champion class? How is it after revamp?
    Hi Nak, going to break my own self silence in this thread to try and give you my experience. It really depends on your Champion experience to be honest, and I don't mean time in the class, I mean what you used to do in the past.

    If you were a soloer typically, or someone that did not partake in many instances, then there are some things to watch for - but overall you can DPS typically well (somewhat better in some cases depending on your rotation).

    The issue lies in some of our skills that came around post Moria that allow us to react to things on the landscape. As easy as it is, (and it still is) if you challenge yourself by drawing a lot of mobs - you have very little in the way of the rescue skills anymore (no bubbles in DPS stance) and no way to change stance in combat. So watch what you aggro!

    There are three stances - the tanking (blue) line is similar to what you'd have had in Glory for all intents and purposes, although most of your bubbles and what nots have gone here too. AOE (Yellow) and ST (Red) DPS are split into 2, and while you can mix/match a little (like being able to get Raging Blades while cap stoning Red) it is NOT possible (imo) to be able to be a DPS AOE/ST king anymore.

    It's disappointing, because often we need both - and while if you capstone one, you'll be awesome, you'll feel for sure the "missingness" of what you had in the other area for sure. I was never an Ardor fan, and while Yellow has been super improved in my opinion, we've lost the generic DPS title.

    Stances are gone - so you are locked in, while in combat.

    I think red feels much better than in previous releases, but is still a lot slower to me (attack speed). Yellow is arguably more efficient, but is SLOW. I feel like I'm firing off skills at random much slower than I used too, and I still haven't worked out a good rotation.

    Ok - now to instances/3 mans/grouping.

    We are nerfed - pure and simple. If you are used to changing targets as required (Single Target vs. AOE as an example) we are hosed, because if the situation changes in combat - it limits us horribly. I can't stress this enough - if your tank goes down, if you are not allowed to AOE and you specc'd for it - it's a pita.

    Personally - this is my playstyle, and it's horribly limiting to me. So much so that I will likely not buy HD (maaaybe TP) and will be cutting my playtime massively.

    I love DPS, but what I loved about the Champ was that it was more than just a meat head - if you played intelligently you could be the make or break for group success, and could, at a pinch step in and tank as a reaction - even if it wasn't long term. I used to love the thrill of the tank going down and stepping in until he/she was rezz'd, and then handing back over the reins.

    Now - it'll be "we need you for DPS", and that's likely it. Because unless it's in the RARE instances where you get a break to change stance in between waves, you are locked in.

    BORED.

  24. #774
    Quote Originally Posted by Darlgon View Post
    Umm... NO class has a green trait line that I know of. They are all Yellow (Support Heavy), Red (DPS) and Blue (Main Function of Class except DPS, where it was their secondary, ie Tanking/Healing.) Have been since I started playing this game. At least they kept that with the new trait trees.
    Mini heal icons are usually green, that was my point of reference. DPS icons are red, and the ballad icon for the (power-saving) ballad are blue, so it just seemed not to fit in with the current scheme if a heal skill all of a sudden had a blue background.

  25. #775
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    When people say "no one asked for this", they overlook how many times people have made this same type of comment that you're making here. It's something we had seen a lot of in various forms. Everything from there are too many skills, to the skills felt weak, or when we increased the cap there were complaints that there was nothing new just unexciting 'enhanced' skills or that when people took a break they came back to a screen filled with skills they couldn't remember how to use.

    All of that feedback sent a very clear message.
    Do you know a message I keep seeing over and over again in the forums? A 23 page, still on topic thread requesting that the dye costs for steeds be lowered, or that at the price being charged, to make it account wide.

    Turbine either has selective hearing or they do what they want anyway.
    Last edited by Namesse; Nov 07 2013 at 11:31 AM.

 

 
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