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  1. #451
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    Oh and while i'm ranting IS THERE ANY REASON FOR EVERY CLASS GUIDE I'VE SEEN SO FAR HAVING A MALE CHARACTER IMAGE?- Your handpicked team sems to think female characters don't exist in this game. Shame on you Sapience. That should never have got by you!!
    I'm assuming this is sarcasm, at least I'm hoping so. But feel free to make me a female hunter banner image on your own time for free...kind of like all the players did with hours of their own free time making the guides.


    Oddly enough, Widoch is a female elf...
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  2. #452
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderv View Post
    I always wonder how people continue to say this nonsense. Last time i entered the game i saw nearly half a hundred instances with valuable loot. Most games can just dream about such abundance. Talking about no endgame is just ridiculous and devalues to zero anything you are trying to say.
    Hamsters don't mind running in the same wheel their entire lives. Most humans? Nah. YMMV...
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  3. #453
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderv View Post
    I always wonder how people continue to say this nonsense. Last time i entered the game i saw nearly half a hundred instances with valuable loot. Most games can just dream about such abundance. Talking about no endgame is just ridiculous and devalues to zero anything you are trying to say.
    Let's talk more about the loot system. I play a guardian. The valuable loot you talked about winning were cappy items with Tact. Mastery and fate on them. Which then sold in the AH for about 5-7 gold. The loot I was after was never dropping as I got that cappy loot a majority of the time. The loot I needed for tanking was in the AH for about 150-200 gold. Sounds like a fair system?

    Yes there were many instances one could run BUT players were only running the fastest to finish, why? Because it took so many runs to get a usable item that longer instances were ignored. This wasn't just GS farming. Atleast that still has a lock. Why not put the best rewards in the longest instances?

    And I believe the posters are talking about Helms Deep not ROR. If the endgame is to spam epic battle only to get a random reward I'll guess most won't be satisfied.

  4. #454
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderv View Post
    I always wonder how people continue to say this nonsense. Last time i entered the game i saw nearly half a hundred instances with valuable loot. Most games can just dream about such abundance. Talking about no endgame is just ridiculous and devalues to zero anything you are trying to say.
    I don't understand how people consider scaled content that has been run for 30 levels to still be viable when there is no valuable loot in it. We didn't have first age symbols drop in scaled raids - so my raiding kin didn't go there. We went where the first agers drop. The golds dropped in the shorter instances just as quickly or more instead of the longer raids - so my raiding kin didn't go there. We went where the time sink was shorter. The RNG that had some people going 300 runs into an instance to get a gold vs. others getting it first run was demoralizing at best. A raiding kin wants challenging, interesting content but they want a reason to go in and do it. Doing the same thing at 95 that you did at 65 for no reason other than that's all there is.... is pathetic.

    tl;dr None of this scaled content has playability over the long haul because a) we've played it to death, b) in the case of Erebor raids they were sub-par to begin with, and c) no reward worth going in for.
    I'd explain it to you, but I'm all out of Puppets and Crayons.
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  5. #455
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    Ok.. two things..

    From the posts of the Beta testers.. I will have 55 points to spend on traits with my "finished" 85?

    Where do those points come from?
    I see 24 points from my Class traits which will roll into this system.
    I see 7 Legendary traits which will roll into this new system
    I see.. 9 Race traits, which are supposedly going away...

    That makes.. 31 or 40. Where do the rest come from?

    Oh.. and, with HD, you will gain points to spend on class skills from LANDSCAPE quests?

    Also.. the more I read, the more I think, "No matter how good the story has always been, up to this point, it DANG well better be SUPERB" to keep people engaged when they log in and dont know the character they have spent six years crafting and maxing.

  6. #456
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkheart06 View Post
    You simply cannot argue that LoTRO isn't the grindiest (popular) MMO on the market right now

    Its grind far exceeds anything found in WoW, TOR, Rift, and even FF 14. Don't try to pass it off just because you like the game. I love LoTRO but I'm not going to pretend or even tolerate the massive time sinks that stand between a player and being able to enjoy something like PvP, unless you want to buy your way through it.
    If you had bothered to read the statement I quoted in my response you would know that yours was pointless, as that wasn't even remotely my argument.

  7. #457
    Darlgon - Bohb's got a good breakdown of them here: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...83#post6985383

    The ones earned from HD quest lines are for the completing each region questline afaik.

  8. #458
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atheling View Post
    Darlgon - Bohb's got a good breakdown of them here: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...83#post6985383

    The ones earned from HD quest lines are for the completing each region questline afaik.
    Thanks..

    And.. Geez.. Bohb would get a plus rep if we still had the old forums.. I read one of his class guides today. It was pretty awesome.

    Wondering if I have all the stuff done I need to have max points.

  9. #459
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herwegur View Post
    Please clarify how the LM "did not lose the functionality" of AOE wound/poison removal, when we are no longer able to do this in HD? The ability to trait for it is gone, now it's single target only.
    Please clarify how the LM "did not lose the functionality" of +15% melee damage via "Sword and Staff" legendary, when we no longer have this trait or this stat?
    Please clarify how the LM "did not lose the functionality" of Improved Staff Strike, which we lost? (+5% maximum morale, +25% damage, +25% crit chance, +50 crit damage, +50% devastate damage, 5s stun on crit)? These stats are gone with that skill, and I'd very much like to hear how their functionality was not lost. Maybe you know something that I'm simply missing? But then again, my LM is merely my main, surely if it had been my occasional alt instead, I would have been much wiser about this functionality business and rushed to embrace all the changes and nerfs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Palentian View Post
    And what new skills\traits\effects will you have that you don't on live?
    I was responding to a post which made an exaggerated claim that we did not lose the functionality of any skills we lost. I listed several examples of skills and effects that have been lost, and whose functionality was not replaced or matched by anything new.
    The focus was not on the new skills at large. The focus was on the fact that the things I listed are now entirely gone and there are no tree traits currently in place which can give equivalent stats and effects. Those holes have not been filled.

    Instead of "Sword and Staff" legendary, we now have "Fend them off" trait, which is now buried deep in red tree and grants extra fire damage. No more +15% melee damage. No more extra chunk of morale. And it's buried so deep in red that it's not obtainable to a level 50-ish character who specs into another line.
    Instead of Improved Staff Strike we now have a trait on 1m cooldown that allows a lightning bolt to accompany a basic staff strike... /whopidoo? This does absolutely nothing to replace the effects and stats that the old Improved Staff Strike used to give us. Those stats are gone, and instead of being able to hit brutally hard with the staff every 10 seconds (or 5 seconds with legacy), we get to wait for a lightning bolt once a minute! Not to mention, this trait is also buried in red and hard to obtain off-spec for non-level capped character. Staff Strike is the only auto-attack skill we have. What is being lost here is +25% + 15% auto-attack damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by furtim View Post
    Not to mention that like 90% of the things he mentioned do, in fact, exist in the trait trees anyway.
    Where?

    Please list examples, because I have not seen them in my trait trees in over two months of beta testing. Neither have I seen you in the LM official class feedback thread participating in the discussions over the blatant LACK of what I listed. These skill modifiers and abilities have been removed - period [tm]. This is an objective fact evident to anyone who takes a careful look at the LM trait trees.

    It is staggering to see that some are willing to go so far as to post a clearly untrue statement on a public forum, the veracity of which cannot be verified by those outside of beta.
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  10. #460
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darlgon View Post
    And.. Geez.. Bohb would get a plus rep if we still had the old forums.. I read one of his class guides today. It was pretty awesome.
    Absolutely. He's done even more over in the Beta forums that unfortunately can't be shared here. He'd be absolutely swimming in rep if such a thing were still possible.
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  11. #461
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    Discussions about points...



    What was the problem with adding another tier of Enhanced skills instead of introducing this [expletive] skill tree system? The only way a character is overpowered by 'dipping' to the 'capstone' of more than one 'skill tree' is because the skills were redesigned to be more overpowered. There is no logic in saying 'this must be so or characters become OP' when the skills are simply designed to be OP.


    NOW.

    My character will have massive impact and go BLAM SHAZZAM every 15 seconds or so but it will do it at the expense of feeling clunky and not at all smooth. We'll see just how this feels.
    Less clicking? Excellent! Less choice? Horrible!

    I'm just boiling with rage at the prospect of having gradual change honed into a smooth gameplay experience removed all in one go. For no apparent reason.

  12. #462
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herwegur View Post
    Please clarify how the LM "did not lose the functionality" of AOE wound/poison removal, when we are no longer able to do this in HD? The ability to trait for it is gone, now it's single target only.
    Please clarify how the LM "did not lose the functionality" of +15% melee damage via "Sword and Staff" legendary, when we no longer have this trait or this stat?
    Please clarify how the LM "did not lose the functionality" of Improved Staff Strike, which we lost? (+5% maximum morale, +25% damage, +25% crit chance, +50 crit damage, +50% devastate damage, 5s stun on crit)? These stats are gone with that skill, and I'd very much like to hear how their functionality was not lost. Maybe you know something that I'm simply missing? But then again, my LM is merely my main, surely if it had been my occasional alt instead, I would have been much wiser about this functionality business and rushed to embrace all the changes and nerfs.
    First, let us look at what I said:

    "...arguably we did not lose the functionality of any skills we lost."

    I have bolded the two key words. The first demonstrates that I am positing an argument, and since I don't know the intricacies of every single class, there could be flaws in that argument. From what I have seen and played, however, most of the functionality of skills that were removed still exists, but in a different form. I gave several examples from Captain to illustrate this. There are other examples, however, where this is not entirely the case, and I think Agile Rejoinder for Hunter is perhaps one of those (I haven't checked recently to see if a suitable heal has been added elsewhere as a replacement).

    The second word is very important, as I and others are discussing removed skills, not traits.

    1. The skill Knowledge of Cures has not been removed. Sure, its AOE functionality has been taken away, but in its place Lore-masters can remove 3 Fears, Wounds, Diseases and Poisons, not just Wounds and Poisons. So, in one sense it is a nerf, but in another it is a buff. A tier six bonus for the Ancient Master makes it instant-cast, which should help with applying it to people. Most, if not all, classes have also had their effect removal skills buffed to apply to all types of effects, so the need for the Lore-master alone to remove them is less vital than on live.

    2. Sword and Staff is not a skill, but a trait. Some of those bonuses are distributed around the trees, however. For example, the parry boost can be found in the Fend Them Off trait, along with additional buffs to avoidances and fire damage. From what I can see, I don't believe there is an equivalent to a melee damage buff, but then I'd argue that a Lore-master doesn't really need it, especially given the slew of new elemental damage skills, procs, etc. I highly doubt Lore-master DPS is going to suffer because of slightly less melee damage.

    3. Master of the Staff (which turns Staff Strike into Improved Staff Strike) is not a skill, but a trait. Improved Staff Strike, the skill, does not give all those bonuses you listed. That said, several of the bonuses you list are made up for in one way or another with traits on the trees, including a morale one (which provides a boost to morale for you and your pet), lots of damage increasing traits (check the red line), and the Sword and Storm trait in Master of Nature's Fury, which lets Staff Strike call down lightning, dealing extra damage and stunning the target. From what I can see, much of the functionality of the trait you listed still exists.

    You label the above two as "skills" when they are in fact traits, and no one is arguing about that at all. There is no doubt that the traits have changed considerably, with losses and gains, just as they have done in every expansion pack to date. I doubt that bothers people as much as the thought that a skill has been axed completely, with no functional alternative. That is the concern I was addressing, and I think in the majority of cases players will find the functionality of removed skills still exist in one form or another.

    -Bel
    Belnavar - Captain - 105 - Brandywine - Leader of Keepers of the Palantiri

  13. #463
    I hope everyone can continue to get along.

  14. #464
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minquinn View Post
    To get back on topic and to reiterate my point from a previus point. Turbine if you are reading this please stop using the slot machine / scratch ticket logic to hand out rewards. The barter system in this game was nice. This new get a random loot chest logic is miserable. I heard it's going to continue for Epic Battles. As it stands right now even with class changes and all the other things up coming the loot system is still the thing keeping me from buying this xpac. Spam running instances to get nothing or items you already have is terrible. You may think it encourages replayability but in fact it encourages burnout.

    Down with the random loot system!
    I don't know if this makes you feel any better, but the loot for Big Battles is no longer fully random. Every battle and side quest you complete gives you a medal ranging from bronze to platinum. They appear in your rewards window as progress bars, and once the bar for a particular medal type is full, one of two things happens:

    1] If you have it set to spit out a reward anytime a bar fills, you will get a reward that is appropriate to that level of medal. So, for example, the rewards that drop from bronze are approximately equivalent to a quest drop, and they go up from there. Gold gives really nice teal items. I never earned a platinum reward, so I don't know what those are like.

    2] If you have reward forwarding set, then once a meter fills, the progress from it will be dumped into the next tier up, at a conversion rate I don't know off the top of my head. So, for example, if you full up the bronze bar all that progress gets dumped into silver and so on, up to gold (platinum can only ever be gotten by completing platinum medals). You can set each tier to forward individually, so for example if you wanted silver rewards and gold rewards, then you'd forward bronze to silver. Then anything you earn from bronze and silver would go toward a silver reward, and gold and platinum would only be rewarded from filling up those meters by earning gold or platinum medals. If you wanted only gold or platinum rewards you'd forward bronze to silver and silver to gold, and then any time the gold or the platinum meters filled up, you'd get the corresponding drop.

    As far as I can tell those drops are random in terms of what specific item you get, but the item is guaranteed to be an item specific to your class. The teal (gold) rewards are pretty nice. Jewelry items with great stats.

    So it's not quite as random as with, say, Battle for Erebor, which you can run 50 times and get nothing.

  15. #465
    Quote Originally Posted by frickinmuck View Post
    So it's not quite as random as with, say, Battle for Erebor, which you can run 50 times and get nothing.
    That's a fair point about it being an improvement in that sense. If it were possible to put a check where you would never receive two of the same gold items, it would actually be something which would likely make a lot of people a lot happier. Especially as the gold jewellery rewards are set based and you're going to want specific pieces, not the same ones over and over again til you get what you want. If that happens too regularly, then it's not really an improvement. I guess though that by reducing the chances or possibility of receiving the same items repeatedly that would reduce the amount of time this content would occupy people for, and with this being rewards for all that impacts more than just the raiding community remaining.

  16. #466
    Having read all the comments scattered around the forum, it's safe to say that I can expect a beautiful landscape with;

    1. Dumbed down classes. The game already was dumbed down now so no they're restricting the classes to make the game a challenge.

    2. An instance cluster with new mechanics wich is basicly a cross between skirmish and session-play. With random, useless, drops.

    3. My mini to need a group during pve. But other classes (still) don't need mini's or groups even.

    4. My guard to solo-afk multiple mobs and to struggle with threat in groupplay (see 1)

    I'm glad I didn't pre-order. Going to play some time after update and decide later on.
    That's why I still find it strange why they didn't made the epic free to play, now I need to decide after getting grip only on the skill-trees and some landscape mobs.

  17. #467
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    I agree that the RNG factor of gear in general needs to be looked at. I liked the class gear added in U10, but since it was possible to run an instance 1,000 times and still not get a piece, all the while watching someone else get a piece they already had or didn't want, but couldn't share, it doesn't make for very fun gameplay. This is why I warmly welcomed the shift from random drops of armour in Moria to a medallion system. That said, the medallion cost needs to be reasonable, not like the overpriced OD sets. This is somewhat of an aside, however, and doesn't necessarily apply to HD.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drawbar View Post
    2. An instance cluster with new mechanics wich is basicly a cross between skirmish and session-play. With random, useless, drops.
    There isn't really anything similar to session play in Epic Battles. You play your own character. The drops, while semi-random, are far from useless. Not only do they have great stats, which far surpass what we have on our level 85 characters -- there are also ones that give class set bonuses.

    -Bel
    Last edited by Belnavar; Nov 06 2013 at 03:11 AM.
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  18. #468
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    the loot for Big Battles is no longer fully random.

    The loot system for the Big Battles is an improvement I think. I'll be curious to see the Battles once on live are difficult enough to make it take enough time to get the loot. I really want it to be hard enough unlike Hytbold and Wilderless which were just stretched out rather than difficult.
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  19. #469
    Quote Originally Posted by Belnavar View Post
    I agree that the RNG factor of gear in general needs to be looked at. I liked the class gear added in U10, but since it was possible to run an instance 1,000 times and still not get a piece, all the while watching someone else get a piece they already had or didn't want, but couldn't share, it doesn't make for very fun gameplay. This is why I warmly welcomed the shift from random drops of armour in Moria to a medallion system. That said, the medallion cost needs to be reasonable, not like the overpriced OD sets. This is somewhat of an aside, however, and doesn't necessarily apply to HD.

    There isn't really anything similar to session play in Epic Battles. You play your own character. The drops, while semi-random, are far from useless. Not only do they have great stats, which far surpass what we have on our level 85 characters -- there are also ones that give class set bonuses.

    -Bel
    I agree with your first paragraph a lot Bel. It's horrible. Been the person with the gold item I didn't need, and been the misery guts watching others loot on my 200th odd S/L run (true story). Personally, don't really mind how it's done - I'm not averse to a GM coming down from the clouds and personally handing me exactly what I want and apologising for making me wait more than 30s to receive it

    On the second, it is worth keeping in mind that whilst you are guaranteed something at some point, what that is and its utility to you personally is not guaranteed. Perhaps on the first ever one, but not thereafter. It will be a case for many that it will be trading with friends, kinmates and the AH for teales until you get the item you specifically want. But you do get something to at least trade with at some point. If it's bind on equip.
    Last edited by Atheling; Nov 06 2013 at 03:46 AM.

  20. #470
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    You do know this has been the case on live for some time now, right?
    Playing a hunter taxi on live right now i definately go through a ton of travelling rations, my warden needs some for the Muster too.

    I like not needing them aynmore they never served any other purpose than to use up an inventory space, they're nowadays way too cheap to be a gold sink, but the change is definately not on live.
    Nothing here matters.

  21. #471
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    You do know this has been the case on live for some time now, right?
    Huh? You really need to get into the game more.....:P

  22. #472
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    You do know this has been the case on live for some time now, right?
    Erm, sorry Sapience you might want to check your facts on that one because it's just ... well ... wrong ... all "teleport" skills require travel rations up until now.
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  23. #473
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southpa View Post
    What difference does it make how effective your class will be? Guardians can auto-attack 9 mobs to death without losing more than 5% of their morale.... Tanking and CC are reported to be virtually nonexistent in what little new group content is being offered - assuming you complete it with a high degree of intended success. People are so wrapped-up in skill trees and the changes and not recognizing your class anymore, all the while not realizing there's not going to be much new to do other than learn to play (again). Then what? Run Sambrog? Play some vestigal PvP for old time's sake? This game will have virtually nothing left for people at end game - with no intent of anything more on the near horizon. I just don't understand what types of people this obligatory new player base will be comprised of. It's mind boggling.

    It's very odd to hear that the very entity that should be responsible for bringing the player base together is viewed as having contributed to further fracturing of that player base - by some who have historically been very invested and supportive of this game over the years. This game is in such a bad place, you'd think there'd be some attempts at promoting solidarity rather than "love it or leave it". This is truly the darkest hour this game has ever seen. It seems like the "our way or the highway" clause has been invoked to full effect - and I'm certain more people will be choosing the highway than ever before. This game cannot muster the brand new player base that would be capable of supporting the game, no matter how heavily-monetized said player base will potentially be.

    Looking back at what this used to be, it's little more than sad.

    2 years ago i made a thread on this exact same problem... It was a few weeks prior to RoI when we learned how little grouped content we are getting... During mirk you had numerous instances to play, couple raids, pvp was good.... At no other time in the 7 years did you have so much choice for end-game....
    ROI changed everything.... From that point grouped content quality and abundance started to drop....

    But is it really so doom and gloom as you state here??? I cant say it is, yet.....
    There are numerous things that can be done prior to launch or in the following months, that can refresh the experience of playing old content....

    Properly scaling Moria and older instances...
    Scaling Rift, DN, watcher....
    Increase the difficulty of all scaled content drastically
    Greatly improve the rewards for tier 3 skraids making them a viable choice for some raiding kins
    Reintroduce daily challenges to all instances
    Better rewards for longer instances
    Dont encourage running an instance 300 times to get a drop

    Did they do it? Will they? I dont know.... Maybe someone from beta can clarify....

    Quote Originally Posted by Edrogar View Post
    Erm, sorry Sapience you might want to check your facts on that one because it's just ... well ... wrong ... all "teleport" skills require travel rations up until now.


    I hope you feel proud now that you pointed out something 10 people already said...
    Does it really mean so much to you people? Getting one over Sapience?... Kinda sad...
    The community manager doesnt know every little detail in-game... Sound the alarms!!
    You guys are just becoming annoying....
    Last edited by zagreb000; Nov 06 2013 at 04:35 AM.
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  24. #474
    Quote Originally Posted by zagreb000 View Post
    Did they do it? Will they? I dont know.... Maybe someone from beta can clarify....
    Seem to recall that something was said about potentially looking at scaling some more stuff up/ensuring existing content worked with the class changes, but later. The B1 UI for Big Battles did have 2 12 mans, 2 6 mans and 4 3 mans listed. Whether those were placeholders or not, I obviously do not know because big battles were not accessible til very late in the beta testing and at the number which will reach live.

  25. #475
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calta View Post
    Oh and while i'm ranting IS THERE ANY REASON FOR EVERY CLASS GUIDE I'VE SEEN SO FAR HAVING A MALE CHARACTER IMAGE?- Your handpicked team sems to think female characters don't exist in this game. Shame on you Sapience. That should never have got by you!!
    None of us were "chosen" or "handpicked", we all volunteered because we're passionate about the game. No one was excluded from providing input. We had about a week (if I remember correctly) to complete the guides. Hours of work put into the community in the spirit of helping others.

    I'm saddened to see that the only thing you found worth bringing forward in all that work were a gender imbalance in the header images.
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