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  1. #26
    There is no major changes to the lm's healing abilities, other than an increase in potency of water lore. This will result in some difficulty in an lm healing anything more than a 6 man to be honest.

  2. #27
    aoe beacon of hope when traited ancient master sounds like it would be very useful. Sign of power righteousness ought to be able to be applied to multiple targets when traited ancient master imo.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Idiotvillage View Post
    aoe beacon of hope when traited ancient master sounds like it would be very useful. Sign of power righteousness ought to be able to be applied to multiple targets when traited ancient master imo.
    Oh trust me we have argued the SoPR issue until most of us got utterly sick of even looking at the forum about it. Some of us have offered up suggestions on how to compromise utilizing a trait/set bonus and the sop duration legacy to allow us to be able to put it on 2 even up to 3 stretching it but seems like this edit is here to stay in its extreme nerfed form.

  4. #29
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    First off.. thanks for the write-up Easca. Looks like a lot of changes.. However, the part below concerns me the most.

    Quote Originally Posted by Easca View Post
    Legacy Changes

    With thanks to PKCrichton for his remarks considering legendary legacies
    Main-hand (Staff) Major
    Still Exist:
    • Staff Strike Cool Down
    • Tactical Skill Direct Damage
    • Fire Skills Critical Multiplier
    • Light of the Rising Dawn Critical Rating
    • Light of the Riding Dawn Damage
    • Burning Embers Initial Damage
    Changed:
    • Share the Power Cost changed to 1% Power Restore.
    • Sticky Gourd Direct Damage has been renamed Sticky Gourd Base Damage.
    Main-hand (Staff) Minor
    Still exist:
    • Cracked Earth Range
    • Lightning Storm Base Damage
    • Ents Go To War Damage
    • Gust of Wind Damage
    • Cracked Earth Damage
    • Burning Embers Range
    • Storm Lore Damage
    Changed:
    • Lightning Storm Critical Rating has become Lightning Skills Critical Rating.
    • Lightning Storm Damage has been renamed to Lightning Storm Base Damage.
    Class Item (Book) Major
    Still Exist:
    • Target Resist (Debuffing Skills)
    • Target Resist (Damaging Skills)
    • Target Resist (Fire Skills)
    • Beacon of Hope Magnatude
    • Signs of Power Duration
    • Fire Skills Critical Rating
    Changed:
    • Burning Embers Pulses has become Burning Embers Critical Chance.
    • Wizard's Fire Pulses has become Wizard's Fire Critical Chance.
    Class Item (Book) Minor
    Still exist:
    • Fire Damage Over Time
    • Ancient Craft Targets
    • Bane Flare Targets
    • Test of Will Devastate Magnitude
    • Inner Flame Healing
    Changed:
    • Sign of Wild Rage has been changed to Pet Attack Duration.
    • Fire Lore Targets has been changed to Fire Lore Debuff Strength.
    • Sign of Wild Protection has been changed to Pet Morale.
    With lots of skill renames, with others apparently going to be locked in skill trees, and new skills, I do not see those changes reflected in the legendary items. Have they said that, other than the renames, they will rework LIs to match their new systems? I guess I am failing to see the changes you listed above reflected in the Legendary Items list.

    Oh, and is it true that you will not be able to swap gear out DURING combat?

  5. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Darlgon View Post
    Oh, and is it true that you will not be able to swap gear out DURING combat?
    the only things swappable in combat are your LIs and an the Off-hand slot. I haven't thought to check non-LIs that go in the 'ranged' slot though.
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  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darlgon View Post
    First off.. thanks for the write-up Easca. Looks like a lot of changes.. However, the part below concerns me the most.



    With lots of skill renames, with others apparently going to be locked in skill trees, and new skills, I do not see those changes reflected in the legendary items. Have they said that, other than the renames, they will rework LIs to match their new systems? I guess I am failing to see the changes you listed above reflected in the Legendary Items list.

    Oh, and is it true that you will not be able to swap gear out DURING combat?
    LMs haven't had any skill renames so there is nothing to worry about there. As for new skills sorry there are no legacies that specifically affect only those skills.

    As for the gear swapping it is only items in the Main Hand, Off Hand and Ranged slots that are currently swappable. As I said in that thread we have 'heard' that you are supposed to be able to swap out all LIs so that means Class Item slots but this currently is not the case.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easca View Post
    this change has been pushed through by, amongst others, the dev responsible for the Moors
    So the PVE side of our class suffers hugely due to PVP whining? This was a MAJOR aspect of our group play, the phrase 'nerfed to the ground' readily springs to mind.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alcor View Post
    It's hard to say. On live, LMs can do some pretty decent healing. I have not had the opportunity to test AM in a group to see what the healing capability is.
    The Ancient Master line combines debuffing and healing. It definitely makes the LM a more potent healer if the situation necessitates so.
    Do not trouble trouble until trouble troubles you.
    Easca could manipulate a bull through a mousehole and still make it think it did it all by itself.

  9. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Kerin_Eldar View Post
    So the PVE side of our class suffers hugely due to PVP whining? This was a MAJOR aspect of our group play, the phrase 'nerfed to the ground' readily springs to mind.
    It was a major aspect of group play, yes.
    Still it canceled out many boss mechanics which probably made it difficult for devs to design mechanics that are difficult without making a LM mandatory or incredible easy with a LM. A similiar reason lead to the changes of the RK skill "dont fall to storm/lightning/frost".
    Dont get me wrong, i dont apreciate the current state of this skill in beta (especially since champs lost their own state immunity from CBR :P ) but i understand the reasoning behind the change (i dont think the the moors are the only reason because there would have been other meanings of altering the skill moors only)
    Still i'd like to see the buff to be able to kept up on 2 members, maybe a third one with a few seconds of deadspace (already included the +duration from legacy)

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerin_Eldar View Post
    So the PVE side of our class suffers hugely due to PVP whining? This was a MAJOR aspect of our group play, the phrase 'nerfed to the ground' readily springs to mind.
    Like PKCrichton has already said, this has been brought up multiple times and the message was definite: SoPR is going to stay what it is as planned. It should however be affected by the Legendary Legacy Sign of Power durations, however, being unaware if this is a bug or not, that is not the case as of now.

    If it is any consolidation, every class now gets a skill that breaks you of any dazes, roots, stuns and the likes that can be used every two minutes. It's going to need some getting used to, but if you keep up SoPR on the tank or healer and use the break-out skill whenever necessary, things should go more or less smoothly.

    Sorry that I can't say that we're going to try to bring it back to its old glory, but quite frankly we're f***ing sick and tired of that entire debate by now. (As in the paraphrase of Baroness Boothroyd.)
    Last edited by Easca; Nov 05 2013 at 06:56 AM.
    Do not trouble trouble until trouble troubles you.
    Easca could manipulate a bull through a mousehole and still make it think it did it all by itself.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darlgon View Post
    First off.. thanks for the write-up Easca. Looks like a lot of changes.. However, the part below concerns me the most.



    With lots of skill renames, with others apparently going to be locked in skill trees, and new skills, I do not see those changes reflected in the legendary items. Have they said that, other than the renames, they will rework LIs to match their new systems? I guess I am failing to see the changes you listed above reflected in the Legendary Items list.

    Oh, and is it true that you will not be able to swap gear out DURING combat?
    The LM doesn't actually have any skill renames (other than Beacon of Hope/Light of Hope), just additional skills that needed new names in the first place. Also I think the finalization of LI legacies is something that's done later in the process, so we'll have to see about that.

    The new skills are for as far as I know not reflected in the legacies because there simply don't exist legacies for them. Lighting-storm legacies have been generalized to lightning damage, others to fire damage etc.

    And yes, it will not be possible to swap out gear during combat. They expect you to be prepared before hand (and personally I've always found the idea that the hero would suddenly take off his clothes and put other on in a fight rather weird ).
    Do not trouble trouble until trouble troubles you.
    Easca could manipulate a bull through a mousehole and still make it think it did it all by itself.

  12. #37
    Only one comment comes to mind.


    • Share the Power now costs morale instead of power.


    Moral cost for sharing power? what is the idea? ridiculous seriously.

  13. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Kerin_Eldar View Post
    So the PVE side of our class suffers hugely due to PVP whining? This was a MAJOR aspect of our group play, the phrase 'nerfed to the ground' readily springs to mind.
    It's also being pushed by the idea that players of other classes need to take more responsibility for avoiding/mitigating some effects. It certainly wasn't through lack of effort from the bulk of beta testing LMs that it's remained as it is (I wasn't one of them, though I didn't particularly push against changing it back either). One of those which ain't going to change but has been tampered with round the edges to where it's at now. A huge part of the changes has been about rebalancing classes, essentially stripping them down and then building from ground up. Trying to fit LMs into that has clearly been problematic because we're a class which does an awful lot, and much of it out of the spotlight. The issues with AM are probably emblematic of the difficulty in fitting it all back together.

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    Big Battles ultimate reward is jewellery based on the RNG mechanic currently in RoR. So teale as normal and then gold more rarely. Armour and other things, not yet in.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiof View Post
    Only one comment comes to mind.


    • Share the Power now costs morale instead of power.


    Moral cost for sharing power? what is the idea? ridiculous seriously.
    In the old times, if you wanted to give 1000 power, you lost same amount - 1000 power. It could be reduced with trait healer, but it would be still 850 power as cost. In these days power stealing for enemies was very important. With fate and power changes in the beginning of year, you could give 2300 power for what? 300 power? Take 2 lms and you have incredibly efficient perpetuum mobile for power. Stealing power is no more needed.

    So they could bring back to the 1:1 in power costs or give it morale costs. But 1:1 power cost would mean that after using twice we are without power. So morale costs are better choice
    Ich bin kein Deutscher, sorry für Grammatik
    Eglish isn't my first language, sorry for mistakes

  15. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Estelrandir View Post
    In the old times, if you wanted to give 1000 power, you lost same amount - 1000 power. It could be reduced with trait healer, but it would be still 850 power as cost. In these days power stealing for enemies was very important. With fate and power changes in the beginning of year, you could give 2300 power for what? 300 power? Take 2 lms and you have incredibly efficient perpetuum mobile for power. Stealing power is no more needed.

    So they could bring back to the 1:1 in power costs or give it morale costs. But 1:1 power cost would mean that after using twice we are without power. So morale costs are better choice

    ok with that. But they'll need to modify the name of the skill then. Since it does not make sense. Not using the therm "share" will be a start.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Estelrandir View Post
    In the old times, if you wanted to give 1000 power, you lost same amount - 1000 power. It could be reduced with trait healer, but it would be still 850 power as cost. In these days power stealing for enemies was very important. With fate and power changes in the beginning of year, you could give 2300 power for what? 300 power? Take 2 lms and you have incredibly efficient perpetuum mobile for power. Stealing power is no more needed.

    So they could bring back to the 1:1 in power costs or give it morale costs. But 1:1 power cost would mean that after using twice we are without power. So morale costs are better choice
    So, if you are in a raid situation, under 1/2 health from a trash mob, with AE damage like BfE and the healer needs a shot of power to keep the tank up your choices are:

    1. Sure.. here it is.. OH, and I am now dead.
    2. Sorry let them both die but I will still be alive.

    I guess you could say that is choices..

  17. #42
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    Okay, know what, I'll go look in beta whenever the next opportunity comes around and I will look at the numbers on how much morale the share the power costs.

    Unless someone knows by heart of course.
    Do not trouble trouble until trouble troubles you.
    Easca could manipulate a bull through a mousehole and still make it think it did it all by itself.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jula View Post
    1) What is the experience of the new dedicated Blue pet line in Beta? I assume this is essentially a DPS line now as all support skill seem gathered in Yellow? Are pets really viable versus say Red line DPS?
    So, I spent the vast majority of my beta time on my Captain main. However, I did play around with my LM a little bit.

    Keeper of Animals is a really fun solo line now. If you like "tank and flank", you'll love the new KoA. (It doesn't buff the Flanked! mechanic, but it buffs pets and pet-LM interactions in every other way.)

    Quote Originally Posted by PKCrichton View Post
    Tier 2 requires 5 traits to be earned in Tier 1 of that line Blue/Red/Yellow. So T1 Blue only unlocks T2 Yellow.
    I think you mean that T1 Blue unlocks T2 Blue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanglebear View Post
    So based on the information here I could theoretically get Tier 7 in the main tree and up to Tier 4 in another tree with 55 points? That sounds pretty cool.
    Only T3, actually, but close.

    If you're judicious about trait selection, it only takes 31 points in your main line to reach the T7 trait. We have between 60 and 65 points at level 95 -- assuming you completed your class deeds, and depending on whether you've earned trait points from Helm's Deep deeds -- which gives between 29 and 34 points to spend off-spec, if you desire. Reaching T4 in an off-spec trait line requires 32 points.

    So if you max everything out, you can reach T7 in your main line and T4 in an off-spec line. You can still reach T3 in an off-spec line even if you don't max out your trait points, though.
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  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darlgon View Post
    So, if you are in a raid situation, under 1/2 health from a trash mob, with AE damage like BfE and the healer needs a shot of power to keep the tank up your choices are:

    1. Sure.. here it is.. OH, and I am now dead.
    2. Sorry let them both die but I will still be alive.

    I guess you could say that is choices..
    If healer has enough power, you should have enough morale. If you wait, until healer will be empty and your morale low, well, it is your problem.

    Simply, it is business between you and healer. If you have enough morale, healer has enough power. If healer has enough power, you have enough morale. If it is not working, explain it to the healer.
    Ich bin kein Deutscher, sorry für Grammatik
    Eglish isn't my first language, sorry for mistakes

  20. #45

    What about new Armour/Legendary Weapons/Jewellery

    Is there any info on how will we get new Armour/Legendary Weapons(2nd or 1st age)/Jewellery?
    Is there gonna be new 'Hytbold', or only Big Battles or something else?

    Thanks.

  21. #46
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    Change to Water-lore and Share the Power costs

    I discovered that Mending Lore adds +5% incoming healing on top of the +5% that's already there, so that's been changed.

    Also I have looked into the Share the Power morale costs. Please take into account that this research has been carried out on a character at level 91.

    For both Share the Power and Share the Power - Fellowship, the morale cost is 239.
    Share the Power, at level 91, shares on average 2346,4 on a single target.
    Share the Power - Fellowship, shares on average 1291,35 on every fellowship member in range.

    This data has been taken from using this skill 20 times and taking the average from that.
    Do not trouble trouble until trouble troubles you.
    Easca could manipulate a bull through a mousehole and still make it think it did it all by itself.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinmaster View Post
    Is there any info on how will we get new Armour/Legendary Weapons(2nd or 1st age)/Jewellery?
    Is there gonna be new 'Hytbold', or only Big Battles or something else?

    Thanks.
    As far as I know, there is no Hytbold. I wasn't at lvl 95 and I haven't done all quests, but I would hear something about it. You can do epic battles once per day and if you were enough successful, you will get loot. It is relics, Ep-runes or jewelry.

    There is no 1st age weapons and most probably you can get 2nd age as always: Skirmishes and scaled raids.

    There are no new sets. So, most probably for the beginning, we will use crafted one or what we find in instances.
    Ich bin kein Deutscher, sorry für Grammatik
    Eglish isn't my first language, sorry for mistakes

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinmaster View Post
    Is there any info on how will we get new Armour/Legendary Weapons(2nd or 1st age)/Jewellery?
    Is there gonna be new 'Hytbold', or only Big Battles or something else?

    Thanks.
    Jewellery will have to be gotten from the Big Battles. If I recall correctly you can get a Second Age Symbol from the rep trader in Helm's Deep for a LOT of Westemnet tokens - or, of course, you can get them from raids.
    Do not trouble trouble until trouble troubles you.
    Easca could manipulate a bull through a mousehole and still make it think it did it all by itself.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Estelrandir View Post
    As far as I know, there is no Hytbold. I wasn't at lvl 95 and I haven't done all quests, but I would hear something about it. You can do epic battles once per day and if you were enough successful, you will get loot. It is relics, Ep-runes or jewelry.

    There is no 1st age weapons and most probably you can get 2nd age as always: Skirmishes and scaled raids.

    There are no new sets. So, most probably for the beginning, we will use crafted one or what we find in instances.
    Historically, First Agers never come out with a new release, but with the next XPac after them.

    Also, I remember Orion working on class gear for Hytbold for wardens right up to the day of launch.

    That being said.. it sounds like the bloat on stats will be horrible. Some posters are even saying with landscape gear, their main stats (HP/End/AGI) almost doubled? Sigh.. guess we will get to Mordor with the next expansion or have 200K morale on LMs at its gates.

  25. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Eammanski View Post
    Will the change to Ancient Master make the Loremaster more viable as a healer?
    I played an LM on Ancient Master Line when I ran Deeping Wall 12 Man Raid, it was a very difficult instance, and I found it very helpful to be in AM line for debuffs and the generally slow healer. I wou'dn't quite call it an off-healer though, unless maybe you were able to legacy things . . .

    The power regeneration skills don't have a big impact, but at this point I haven't seen a lot/any fear debuffs like that of gaunt men who take all of a players power. Meaning, they have a lot of power regen skills, but I don't often see people running out of power. But certainly more than enough power healing in AM line.

    I would say the healing power is a little better than before, but I personally have never used a LM as an off-healer yet.

    -------------------------------------------------

    And about 2nd agers. . . remember that at the release of Rohan, The 2nd Agers were kinda nerfy since they hadn't set up a structure from 3rd to 2nd to 1st . . . so it might be a good idea just to hold on to a lvl 95 3rd ager for a while, unless of course, you want to take a chance, and instead save up matierals to try for a 2nd ager after the 1st agers come out . . . just my experience, of course I'm a fairly casual gamer
    Last edited by livingwaters; Nov 05 2013 at 01:02 PM.

 

 
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