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  1. #1

    Player Guide: Class Changes Summary: Warden

    MOST OF THIS IS MOST LIKELY OUT OF DATE, I'VE SINCE STOPPED PLAYING IN FAVOR OF OTHER INTERESTS... PLEASE REFER TO THE OTHER THREADS FOR CHANGES ON WARDENS. GOOD DAY.

    Warden

    Text in red indicate changes i have made since this went live
    text in yellow indicate changes I have made November 8th and later

    Finishers
    Finishers are a new type of gambit that has increased potency if you use the 2-icon then 3-icon gambits in the same gambit line. If you use 21(persevere) then 212(safeguard) you will get a buff that gives greater potency for 2121(celebration of skill) and 21212(restoration).

    The finishers are celebration of skill, Restoration, surety of death, conviction, dance of war, and desolation.

    after you complete the 2 icon and 3 icon gambits you'll have about 10 seconds to complete a 4 or 5 icon gambit to take advantage of the bonuses.

    After combat gambits
    When you leave combat, gambits stay "prepared" for 9 seconds after combat ends. much like a gambit stored in battle memory.

    Minimum range
    there is no longer a minimum range for ANY gambit while in assailment stance, however when you do this you will have a chance to gain a debuff every time you are hit. -5% ranged damage for 4 seconds, stacks to a max of -25% ranged damage.

    Determination

    Spec bonus
    +5% spear gambit damage
    +25% healing potency (and more)

    Significant Set bonuses
    tier 1 - +20% morale-tap damage
    tier 5 - when you evade you heal 1% of your maximum morale
    tier 6 - +2 pulses to AOE morale taps over time
    tier 7 - all gambit builders apply morale-tap (~60 at 85)

    Traits of Special Mention
    Tier 3 - improves Defiant Challenge – increase mitigation depending on how many enemies are affected by defiant challenge
    Tier 4 - when you evade your gambit masteries' cooldowns are reset, only applies once every 15 seconds
    Tier 5 - +1/2/3 HoT pulses
    Tier 6 - cooldown of never surrender reduced by 5 minutes
    Tier 6 - +4/8/12/16/20% increase in morale tap damage


    Recklessness

    Spec Bonuses
    +5% DoT
    -10% attack duration (and more!)

    Significant Set Bonuses
    tier 1 - +5% spear gambit damage
    tier 5 - +10% spear gambit damage
    tier 6 - +5% melee damage (This is where your grand master weapons training trait is at.)
    tier 7 - gambits in power attack (123) and precise blow (31) gambit lines have 15% chance to apply a second bleed.

    Traits of Special Mention
    tier 1 - +4/8/12/16/20% bleed damage
    tier 2 - allows onslaught and wall of steel to consume the bleeds of power attack and mighty blow (respectively) to deal AoE damage
    tier 3 - +3/6/9/12/15% offensive strike morale-tap damage +1/2/3/4/5% morale-tap damage
    tier 4 - +2/4/6/8/10% DoT crit chance
    tier 5 - +4/8/12/16/20% DoT crit damage
    tier 6 - +4/8/12% adroit maneuver attack duration, +3/6/9% warden’s triumph damage bonus.


    Assailment

    Spec bonuses
    +5% ranged damage
    +340 critical rating (and more!)

    Significant Set Bonuses
    tier 1 - +10% ranged damage
    tier 2 - hampering javelin slows 5 enemies around target
    tier 6 - -10% attack duration in assailment stance


    Traits of Special Mention
    Tier 2 - +3/6/9/12/15% ranged damage
    Tier 4 - Javelin gambits have 10/20/30/40/50% chance to bleed, the more icons in gambit the more bleed damage.
    Tier 4 - marked target and diminished target(new skills see below) affect 4 more targets.
    Tier 5 - trying to stack a bleed of the same tier will consume the bleed to create an AoE damage burst.

    Skills

    Removed Skills
    • Javelin toss


    Removed Gambits
    • Shield up
    • Aggression
    • Call for Battle
    • Deflection


    Skills Not Tied to Tree's
    • all gambit builders
    • all gambit masteries
    • quick recovery
    • recovery
    • ambush
    • wages of fear
    • hampering javelin
    • all travel skills
    • critical strike
    • careful step
    • forced march
    • battle preparation
    • battle memory
    • never surrender


    Changes to Old Skills/Gambits
    fist-spear gambit line: (31 313 3131)
    • bleeds

    shield-spear gambit line: (21 212 2121)
    • HoT only (no bleeds)
    • celebration of skill has no HoT, increases incoming healing by 5.5%.

    Adroit maneuver:
    • -4% attack duration
    • see above, traits can increase to -16%

    Warden’s Triumph:
    • +3% melee damage
    • +5% ranged damage in assailment stance
    • see above, traits can increase to +12% and +14% respectively

    Force march
    • no longer has power penalty

    never surrender
    • no longer has a duration (it stays on until used or log out)

    Defiant challenge
    • obtained in tier 2 of determination trait line
    • 20 second cooldown

    Javelin of deadly force:
    • Obtained in tier 7 of assailment trait line

    shield mastery:
    • obtained as a set bonus in tier 2 of determination trait line

    shield tactics:
    • obtained as a set bonus in tier 4 of determination trait line

    shield piercer:
    • obtained by specing into the recklessness trait line

    Improved hampering javelin:
    • obtained by specing into the assailment trait line


    Precise blow:
    • bleeds

    War-cry:
    • no longer heals
    • buffs last 20 secs (down from 30)

    Brink of victory:
    • evade rating duration 20 secs (up from 10)

    Piercing strike:
    • bleeds

    Spear of virtue:
    • bleeds

    Surety of death: (finisher)
    • also increases block and parry,
    • duration 12 seconds (up from 10)

    Desolation: (finisher)
    • adds -5% miss chance for 12 secs

    Resounding challenge:
    • does damage

    Defensive strike:
    • block rating duration 10 secs (down from 20) and only 10% chance to apply.

    Persevere:
    • buffs for 20 secs (down from 30)

    Impressive flourish:
    • no longer heals, buffs duration 20 secs (down from 30)

    Safe guard:
    • buff duration 20 secs (up from 10)

    Dance of war: (finisher)
    • no longer increases evade rating or tactical mitigation
    • buff duration 12 secs (down from 30),
    • also increases physical mitigation by 2%

    Conviction:
    • adds critical defence and tactical mitigation to allies within 30 meters for 12 seconds
    • base HoT duration 6 seconds (down from 12)

    Offensive strike:
    • morale-tap with in the fray stance
    • -2% outgoing damage for 12 seconds debuff on target with assailment stance

    power attack:
    • bleeds

    mighty blow
    • bleeds

    boar's rush:
    • no longer has chance to fear or knockout, but can still daze on critical.



    bleeds: when I say "bleeds" I usually mean light damage every 4 seconds for 16 seconds, only power attack, and mighty blow does regular damage.

    changes to warden gambits are complete.

    New Skills
    First Aid:
    • removes 1 disease, fear, poison, or wound from you
    • 5 second cooldown

    Steadfast:
    • recover from daze, stun, knockdown
    • 2 minute cooldown

    Marked target:
    • javelin skill
    • debuffs target’s physical mitigation by 5% for 10 seconds
    • 18 second cooldown

    Diminished target:
    • Javelin skill, obtained in tier 3 of assailment trait line
    • debuffs target’s tactical mitigation by 5% for 10 seconds
    • 18 second cooldown

    For the free peoples:
    • 15 second duration
    • every gambit you use increases the fellowship’s physical/tactical mitigations
    • obtained in tier 7 of determination trait line
    • 1 min, 30 sec cooldown

    Recklessness:
    • 20 sec duration
    • -10% B/P/E, +50% damage, +1224 crit rating
    • 1 min 30 sec cooldown
    • obtained in tier 7 of recklessness trait line

    Fire at will:
    • 10 second duration
    • fellowship gets +680 physical/tactical mastery
    • 45 sec cooldown
    • obtained in tier 4 as a set bonus in assailment trait line

    Dodge this:
    • javelin skill used after enemy evades your attack
    • 10 second cooldown
    • obtained in tier 5 as a set bonus in assailment trait line

    Snap shot:
    • 5 skills have been made snap shot skills: shield piercer, hampering javelin, wages of fear, ambush, and javelin of deadly force.
    • each gambit builder has a chance to unlock a free use of a snap shot skill whether or not the original skill is on cooldown.
    • can be obtained in tier 7 as a set bonus in the assailment trait line

    Warning Shot:
    • Javelin skill
    • 8 second cooldown
    • debuff’s target’s outgoing damage by 5% for 10 seconds
    • obtained by specing into the determination trait line


    Legendary item legaciesThanks to Gilean-EU for researching and formatting these


    Weapon Major
    Name Min Max
    Fist-Spear Gambit power cost -1% -10%
    Gambit Lifetap damage +1% +10%
    In The Fray attack duration -1% -10%
    Light Skill damage +1% +5%
    Marked and Diminished Tgt debuff -0.5% -2.5%
    Shield Gambit buff duration +1 +10
    Spear Gambit damage +1% +10%
    Spear Gambit parry rating +359 +511
    Wages of Fear positional damage +1% +10%

    Weapon Minor
    Name Min Max
    Ambush critical multiplier +3% +25%
    Boar's Rush critical rating +359 +511
    Critical Strike critical multiplier +3% +25%
    Hampering Javelin duration +1% +15%
    Javelin Skills Max Range +1 +15
    Resolution damage +1% +10%
    Shield-Spear Gambit power cost -1% -10%
    Shield Tactics Tactical Mitigation rating +359 +511
    Surety of Death damage over time +1% +10%



    Javelin Major
    Name Min Max
    Fist Gambit buff duration +1 +10
    Fist Gambit critical rating +1360 +1520
    Fist Gambit evade rating +207 +359
    Heal Bonus for Conviction +1% +10%
    In Combat Power Regeneration +48.36 +94.8
    In The Fray morale regen +102.06 +200.1
    Shield Gambit Line healing +1% +15%
    Spear-Shield Gambit damage +1% +10%

    Javelin Minor
    Name Min Max
    Adroit Maneuver duration +1 +10
    Ambush and Careful Step Induction -0.3 -3
    Careful Step duration +3 +30
    DC Mitigations Per Target 0.2% 1.8%
    Forced March Movement Speed +1% +13%
    Javelin Skills Movement Miss Penalty -2% -10%
    Shield Gambit Line Healing +1% +15%
    Shield Piercer duration +1% +15%
    Target Resist rating (Resolution) +264 +416





    Edit list
    dance of war and surety of death used to have their icons switched, this is no longer the case.

    celebration of skill, safeguard, persevere has always given +block rating and +partial block chance.

    restoration never had a +block rating.

    added more changes to gambits, completed.

    When you leave combat, gambits stay "prepared" for 9 seconds after combat ends.

    added some new legacies, found out which legacies they replace.

    you will have 10 seconds to complete a finisher in order to gain a bonus.

    dodge and counter skill has been removed. replaced with a trait in determination line.

    spear sweep/heavy sweep skills has been removed. replaced by a series of related traits in recklessness line.

    change to tier 4 and tier 5 traits of special mention in assailment line.

    Added minimum range change. Thanks to skinnymac7 and spelunker for bringing that up.

    Tier 5 set bonus in determination heal 1% max morale on every evade

    In recklessness traits DoT crit chance and damage traits have been reconfigured.

    Snap shot applies on each gambit builder attack

    added Legacies ---thanks again to Gilean-EU for doing these
    Last edited by Redit; May 05 2014 at 08:43 PM.

  2. #2
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    Addendum/update: DoW/SoD were switched back to their original gambits.

    Additionally, it is important to note that, as it stands, all defensive buffs are their own buffs with their own duration; they can only be refreshed by reapplying the same gambit again, and they no longer tier up as they do on live. The duration of most buffs is ~20s, and can be extended by 10s via the appropriate legacies. (As such, keeping up buffs is a lot harder than it used to be. This has been mentioned by quite a few beta testers, but it is currently unknown whether the durations will be extended.) Similarly, there is only a 10-12s window during which you can build and execute finisher-enhanced gambits, which is so short that it forces you to stick to very rigid rotations, because if you deviate from them you will lose out on the bonuses.

    @Mysterion, other: is it really necessary to add those junk images?
    Last edited by rannion; Nov 04 2013 at 03:07 PM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Oxnard, CA
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    So how did things end up w/re to threat? Are the threat leeches still gone?
    "Someday I'm going to move to Michel Delving and leave all this behind." - Hobbit in Waymeet

    [IMG]http://www.48ovvi.org/misc/dawnwen.jpg[/IMG] WINDFOLA

  4. #4
    All leeches are gone. But i could hold aggro (beta 4.1 and 5) against Damage Dealers.
    We still have a few issues in each Tree, but we hope Deviled_Egg fix them

  5. #5
    I don't bring good news for non-beta testers.
    So I won't say anything.

  6. #6
    Join Date
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    Sunny SoCal, USA
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    I don't play a warden. My friend who was beta testing with me who has played a warden as her main since Moria said she's not playing him through the game anymore and moving back to her original main in SoA, the hunter.

    So, take that as you will.

    RIP ELENDILMIR • Jingle Jangle
    Landroval
    : LAERLIN (Bio + Drawings) • LAERWEN • OLORIEL • AETHELIND (Bio + Drawing) • NETHAEL

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krazus View Post
    I don't bring good news for non-beta testers.
    So I won't say anything.
    Between this post, Laire and spelunker I am afraid.. VERY AFRAID.

    We need REAL, DETAILED OFFICIAL dev diaries IMMEDIATELY. Not the fluffy promo junk to sell new players on our class, we got a few weeks ago. SIGH.. and know that will not happen.

    [Edit] No, on second thought, half-way through reading the LM class changes. Turbine, change release to December and really figure out what you did to the game and all classes, stabilize your build, since you appear to be making major changes with less than two weeks til launch THEN come at us with a playable game.
    Last edited by Darlgon; Nov 04 2013 at 11:14 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by rannion View Post
    @Mysterion, other: is it really necessary to add those junk images?
    I read the beta forums. I tried some of the betas (on my guard). The warden class thread is 35 pages and counting (second only to captain 71 pages). To me the NDA being lifted is definitely a grab some popcorn and watch situation. With regards to wardens I think once the beta is opened the real fireworks of people being vocal. To me it seems like the spirit of the warden that I loved @65 is almost completely gone. Can't wait to hear everyone's opinions of the procs/clickies/finishers/threat when this goes live.


  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterion View Post
    With regards to wardens I think once the beta is opened the real fireworks of people being vocal. To me it seems like the spirit of the warden that I loved @65 is almost completely gone. Can't wait to hear everyone's opinions of the procs/clickies/finishers/threat when this goes live.
    Nope. Even with this storm going, it wont be until the game goes live and we REALLY find all the problems.

    And.. yes, I read it as RIP my warden (and LM) as we once knew them on that day. Turbine already has my money from my annual sub, so I guess I will buy it with TP, as I see no reason to just donate them money without using up my points.. Depending on how it reads/plays when I log in. tho, it may be wait until December when they have a half-price sale on the expansion due to lack of people purchasing it.

  10. #10
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    Ok. NOW I am really not happy.

    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...Guardian/page2

    Quote Originally Posted by Eliel View Post
    That seems like easy mode tanking to me. I don't need to know which skills generate extra threat, I just need to keep hitting things? And then if I do manage to lose a mob, I have 3 versions of Engage?

    Am I missing something?
    Quote Originally Posted by oaceen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Darlgon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Schinderhannes View Post
    In Blue and Yellow spec you will generate +300% Aggro, so you basically tank with all skills that deal damage. In addition to that, some of your force taunts will have an new mechanic that adds additional aggro, depending on the total aggro of the fellowship. It's called "threat catch up".
    Wait, are you saying Guards will get TWO tanking stances? (And, yes, possibly my first ever post in the Guard forums.)
    that is correct.
    So we get a "maybe will work" Forced Taunt AND only one tanking stance? While guards get TWO tanking stances AND 3 forms of forced taunt.. Once again.. we are apparently not tanks to Lotro. At least.. that has not changed.

  11. #11
    So I came back to LOTRO a month or so ago and have been enjoying leveling up a warden (60 now was planning to take him to cap). I was looking forward to doing some tanking with an usual style tank when I leveled high enough to get teams for group content, but looking at the posts from the beta players it seems muddled as to what the role of the warden is supposed to be after HD.

    Is it clear to any of you guys what the intended team role of the warden is after the HD changes? This is all pretty discouraging.

    Thanks to those of you who did the beta and have shared your experiences.
    Best.

  12. #12

    Unhappy Warden = Gone

    so what is the role of a warden in a group now? no threat so no tanking, dps worst than all classes so not dps. so whats their role?

  13. #13
    can you make adjustments to how fast i could click on the gambits, it seems you've made cool down longer or something that caused a slow down on clicking, it's like i'm playing a guardian or captain now, can't you make it back to the way it was?

  14. #14
    I've seen people say that agility is the wardens main stat now. Does this apply to tanking as well?
    Is all of my might gear no longer valid?

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by GSO86 View Post
    I've seen people say that agility is the wardens main stat now. Does this apply to tanking as well?
    Is all of my might gear no longer valid?
    Yes. This change was made quite awhile ago.

    The main warden stats for wardens are agility and vitality.
    [SIZE=3][COLOR=#ff8c00][FONT=impact][I]Occupy Warden Forums to bring back teh awesome.
    [/I][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#ff0000][FONT=impact][U]NO GAMBIT COOLDOWNS![/U][/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE]

  16. #16
    Ok thank you! Sorry if this is old news, I've been away from the game for a while.

  17. #17

    I really like warden since HD update

    I find myself getting agro a lot easier and holding it easier then previous. After relearning skill set, I personally think the warden is a better class now. I am running the blue line with a splash of yellow and it seems to work great for me.

  18. #18
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    My warden is only a year old, was 85 at mid 2013. Now 95, like many other wardens players, I miss the pre-HD class. It turned to damage tanking instead of aggro management tanking. Yes, tanking was a bit harder, but much more fun.
    Why Turbine removed the old threat mechanics? I don't know the earliers versions of wardens, but RoR warden was very good for my taste.

    My personal wishes for 2014 Warden:
    - Give back the pre-HD threat mechanics (transfer with Agression, Dance of War, Conviction...), not based upon damage. We can't generate threat without damage with Call to Battle and Resounding Challenge) , it can be tricky for some fights where bosses or adds have very limited moral or heal when taking damage.
    - Physical/Tactical mitigation : we are now far from guards, Defiant Challenge for a solo boss will only bring the cap to 58% (with the legacy) ; revert to the older Defiant challenge, or add a new legacy/gambit to help have more mitigation (says about 70/75% for 30 seconds).
    - BPE : since we are in medium armour, we are supposed to take more damage, so why our BPE is lower than Guard or Captains? Let's raise the cap to 30% or more to compensate for the lowers mitigations.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenjii_31 View Post
    My warden is only a year old, was 85 at mid 2013. Now 95, like many other wardens players, I miss the pre-HD class. It turned to damage tanking instead of aggro management tanking. Yes, tanking was a bit harder, but much more fun.
    Why Turbine removed the old threat mechanics? I don't know the earliers versions of wardens, but RoR warden was very good for my taste.

    My personal wishes for 2014 Warden:
    - Give back the pre-HD threat mechanics (transfer with Agression, Dance of War, Conviction...), not based upon damage. We can't generate threat without damage with Call to Battle and Resounding Challenge) , it can be tricky for some fights where bosses or adds have very limited moral or heal when taking damage.
    - Physical/Tactical mitigation : we are now far from guards, Defiant Challenge for a solo boss will only bring the cap to 58% (with the legacy) ; revert to the older Defiant challenge, or add a new legacy/gambit to help have more mitigation (says about 70/75% for 30 seconds).
    - BPE : since we are in medium armour, we are supposed to take more damage, so why our BPE is lower than Guard or Captains? Let's raise the cap to 30% or more to compensate for the lowers mitigations.
    Forget it!
    Remember, we're no longer the Transfer-threat Bandits, we're the Damage-threat Bandits! (c)

    Legacies U18: https://lotrotools.pw/legacies.php
    Lootlist 100 lvl: https://lotrotools.pw/en/lootlist/
    ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** **
    Ololo-trololo

  20. #20

    Hi guys!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenjii_31 View Post
    My warden is only a year old, was 85 at mid 2013. Now 95, like many other wardens players, I miss the pre-HD class. It turned to damage tanking instead of aggro management tanking. Yes, tanking was a bit harder, but much more fun.
    Why Turbine removed the old threat mechanics? I don't know the earliers versions of wardens, but RoR warden was very good for my taste.

    My personal wishes for 2014 Warden:
    - Give back the pre-HD threat mechanics (transfer with Agression, Dance of War, Conviction...), not based upon damage. We can't generate threat without damage with Call to Battle and Resounding Challenge) , it can be tricky for some fights where bosses or adds have very limited moral or heal when taking damage.
    - Physical/Tactical mitigation : we are now far from guards, Defiant Challenge for a solo boss will only bring the cap to 58% (with the legacy) ; revert to the older Defiant challenge, or add a new legacy/gambit to help have more mitigation (says about 70/75% for 30 seconds).
    - BPE : since we are in medium armour, we are supposed to take more damage, so why our BPE is lower than Guard or Captains? Let's raise the cap to 30% or more to compensate for the lowers mitigations.
    Yes i agree raise either BPE or raise mits to 70%. I must also say i like warden dps after HD-update. Since i play alot of PvMP with my warden i find it a bit harder to stay alive after HD-update cause my mits-cap is 50% and for example warg-dps looks almost unlimited and that creeps have 60k-80k morale and fantastic heal-pots and ICMR. Honestly i think its PvMP that puts your class to the test not PVE. I know its important with crit-defence but honestly should it really be all about critdefence? Another thing is our attack-speed that imo always have been slow compared to other classes cause we have to either use masterys or build up gambits the normal way, with that in mind devs should consider to raise our defences. Looking forward to feedback from you guys!

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redit View Post
    Changes.
    Wow.. just went back and looked at that original post for this thread. TONS of red for changes. Thanks for the updates.

    Am I reading this correctly tho? Bleeds are going to be light only? Not weapon type specific? (Beriland, Dwarf, umm.. cant think of them all atm.)

 

 

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