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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
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    Player Guide: Class Changes Summary: Hunter

    Please post any feedback or suggestions here and I will be happy to edit and adjust this post as need be.
    ______________________________ ______________________________ ______________________________ ______________________________ ______________________________ _______
    Build: 03/25/14
    Image used with permission: tentonhammer.com


    “He stands not alone. You would die before your stroke fell.”
    -J.R.R. Tolkien, The Two Towers
    Hunter
    (Redit, Widoch, rctman, & bohbashum. Updates Assist:Orodbril)

    This is not a guide on how to play the hunter, or even a detailed description of every skill or trait. That information is easily found in game by checking out the tooltips using the traits menu. Instead, this guide will attempt to describe the main differences one will notice between pre-Helm's Deep hunters and the new live version.


    A Brief Introduction
    The hunter is becoming a much more specialized class to play. Where in the past a hunter could be DPS traited while still having access to multiple crowed control options or a survival hunter could still dish out intense DPS, this is no longer the case. Hunters will choose between 3 basic play styles. The huntsman line now focuses on speed and mobility by allowing the hunter to perform induction based skills while moving. In sacrifice, this hunter will have very little in the way of heals or crowd controls skills. The bowmaster line is designed towards a more traditional long range, high DPS, stationary hunter. This higher DPS sacrifices survivability and crowd control for the longest attack range of all trait lines. Lastly, the trapper of foes line has seen the most changes made. There are new types of traps, decoys that can be used to aggro mobs, added survivability traits, and more ranged crowd control abilities. As one would expect, mobility and DPS are sacrificed to achieve these benefits. In its current form, it is much more difficult to achieve a blended "jack of all trades" hunter as one could have in the past. As was stated earlier, the new build focuses on doing one job and one job only.

    A majority of hunter skills are bestowed automatically as you level. These auto-bestow skills will be available no matter the trait tree you choose. When selecting a trait tree, you will see that it is built in tiers. For every 5 points you spend on your selected tree, a set bonus as described below is given. So, while a hunter may have different traits selected within a trait tree, every hunter receives the same set bonuses as given by their selected tree. Huntsman, Bowmaster and Trapper of Foes each have their own set of bonuses.

    Traits below are described as either a buff, which will affect your stats and/or skills, or a skill which can be actively used at will. Some skill traits allow you to spend more points to improve that specific skill in a similar way Mounted Combat trees will. Set bonuses are described and are only acquired for every 5 points spent in the specific tree. When spending points outside your chosen tree, the cost of each upgrade doubles to 2 points but only provides one point of advancement for your selected tree's set bonuses. For example: When the Bowmaster tree is selected, every Bowmaster trait costs one point to upgrade but a trait in ToF or Huntsman would cost 2. It would cost 5 points in Bowmaster upgrades to get to the first tier of Bowmaster set bonuses, but would cost 10 points in ToF or Huntsman to get a tier of Bowmaster set bonuses.


    Fear not! It is very simple to test, change and explore different builds. So just play with it until you find what you like.
    ***ANY GENERIC CHANGES TO NOTE***
    Skills Removed:

    • swift stroke
    • agile rejoinder
    • hunter’s art
    • cry of the predator
    • fleetness(became trait)
    • needful haste(became a trait)
    • improved scourging blow(just regular)
    • Crafted traps will be going away, but there will be a new item called Trap Parts that will enhance trap skills. This item will not be in for the release but will be added in a following update.
    • At this moment, no stealth tracking skill. *As of 3/25/14 this is being addressed on the test server. We'll see if it goes live. It is not working as intended as hunters SHOULD have this skill.*


    ***Huntsman***
    Spec Bonuses
    Skills Gained Through Specialization
    • Scourging Blow
    • Barrage*
    *Range Attack Distance Maxed at 30m*
    *Able to perform inductions while moving*
    *No pentalty to hit chance on movement*

    Additional Skills, and Buffs:
    • Impact Arrows - Buff
    5 Tiers – Increased Ranged Damage
    • Quick Draw - Buff
    5 Tiers - -% All skill inductions
    • Strong Draw – Buff
    5 Tiers - Focus Damage Increase
    • Quick Shot Focus – Buff
    5 Tiers - +% focus from Quick Shot
    • Split Shot - Skill
    4 Tiers - + Max Targets
    • Barbed Fury - Buff
    5 Tiers - +% damage over time
    • Pathfinder - Buff
    5 Tiers +% Find the Path Movement Speed
    • Precision - Buff
    Precision stance generates more focus
    • Blood Arrow - Skill
    2nd Tier generates 6% max moral on critical
    • Exsanguinate - Skill
    3 Tiers improved proc chance
    • Improved Intent Concentration - Skill
    • Strength of Earth - Skill
    • Shot Through the Heart - Buff
    • Volley - Buff
    5 Tiers - % chance of removing induction.
    • Bow of the Righteous - Buff
    Returns % of power on skill use
    • Rapid Fire – Skill (Capstone)*

    Set Bonuses
    Tier 1 - Resolute Aim – Induction movement speed improvement

    Tier 2 - Fleetness - 10% chance to trigger

    Tier 3 - Barbed hindrance – Improved Barbed Arrow Damage

    Tier 4 - Swift Recovery – Barbed Arrow % Swift Arrow reduced induction

    Tier 5 - Earthborn – Focus & moral gain when using Strength of Earth

    Tier 6 - Improved Fleetness* - 10% chance to trigger

    Tier 7 - Intensified Fire – Stacking physical mastery when using Rapid Fire
    Traits of Special Mention


    ***Bowmaster***
    Spec Bonuses
    Skills Gained Through Specialization
    Pinning Shot*

    *Range Attack Distance Maxed at 40m*

    *On damage, chance of reduced induction and improved attack speed for swift bow*

    Additional Skills, and Buffs:
    • Heart Seeker – Skill
    o Two Tiers
    • True Shot – Buff
    o 5 Tiers Mitigation Penetration
    • Critical Eye - Buff
    o 5 Tiers Critical Rating
    • Press Onward – Skill
    • Swift and True – Buff
    o 5 Tiers Swift Bow Damage Rating
    • Fast Draw – Buff
    o 5 Tiers -% bow induction
    • Perseverance – Buff
    o 3 Tiers Press Onward Heal/Power buff
    • Quick Escape – Buff
    o Low Cut root
    • Deadly Precision – Buff
    o Critical hit generates focus
    • Strength – Buff
    o 2 Tiers – Strength Stance Damage Buff
    • Draw Weight – Buff
    o 5 tiers – Induction Bow Damage
    • Rain of Arrows – Skill
    o 2 Tiers – Critical Chance/Multiplier
    • Hail of Arrows – Buff
    o 2 tiers – On critical Rain of Arrow reset
    • Mercy Kill
    o 5 Tiers – Merciful Shot Critical Multiplier
    • Burn Hot – Skill
    o 2 Tiers
    • Bodkin Arrows – Buff
    o 5 Tiers – Mitigation Bypass
    • In for the Kill – Buff
    o Heart Seeker Bleed
    • Upshot – Skill (Capstone)*

    Set Bonuses
    Tier 1 - Needful Haste Increase – Proc chance increase.

    Tier 2 - Shoot to Kill – Increased Damage

    Tier 3 - Archer’s Mark – Chance to apply crit defence debuff on enemies.

    Tier 4 - Crit Magnitude – Improved Crit damage on ranged attacks.

    Tier 5 - Swift Mercy - Reduced focus cost & useable at 70% health.

    Tier 6 - Hidden Stalker - Increased stealth level & improved critical chance when camouflaged

    Tier 7 - Marksman - 2s upshot & heart seeker cool down reduction on crit & 4s on devastate.
    Traits of Special Mention

    ***Trapper of Foes***
    Spec Bonuses
    Skills Gained Through Specialization
    • Lingering Wound*
    • Decoy*
    *Range Attack Distance Maxed at 30m*
    *Traps can me used on the move*
    *Traps have no induction*

    Additional Skills, and Buffs:
    • Tripwire - Skill
    • Natural Extracts - Buff
    5 Tiers - + DoT
    • Survival Gear - Buff
    5 Tiers - + Tac/Phy Mitigation
    • Combat Traps - Buff
    5 Tiers – Increased trap damage & reduced cooldown
    • Explosive Arrow - Skill
    • Elusive - Buff
    5 Tiers - + Evade
    • Rain of Thorns - Skill
    • Explosive Powder - Buff
    5 Tiers – Decoy & Explosive damage increase.
    • Endurance – Buff
    2 Tiers improved stance BPE
    • Wounded Prey - Buff
    Additional damage from Merciful Shot. Dmg stacks with each use of lingering wound. DoT removed on use.
    • Complex Mechanisms – Buff
    5 Tiers – Trap Resistance Peneration.
    • Advanced Placement – Buff
    Changes traps to ranged, ground-targeted skills
    • Piercing Trap – Skill*
    • Armor Rend – Buff
    5 Tiers – Pen Shot applies debuff
    • Improved Distracting Shot - Buff
    2 Tiers - -30 sec & - 60 sec cooldown
    • The One Trap – Skill (Capstone)*

    Set Bonuses
    Tier 1 - Deadly Decoy – Deadly decoy explodes

    Tier 2 - Triple Trap – Set Trap becomes Triple Trap & additional moral recovery/damage buff/crit buff to certain skills.

    Tier 3 - Master Trapper – Trap damage and duration buff

    Tier 4 - Strong Intimidation – Improve Fear Skill Buff

    Tier 5 - Heightened Senses – Improved stealth detect, evade buff, trap cooldown reduction

    Tier 6 - Purge Poison – Effects entire fellowship

    Tier 7 - Sturdy Traps – Trap Grace Period Improvement

    Traits of Special Mention

    Skills
    Normal Skills
    • Barbed Arrow – Lvl 4
    • Swift Bow – Lvl 10
    • Cry of the Hunter – Lvl 20
    • Bard’s Arrow – Lvl 22
    • Improved Swift Bow – Lvl 54
    • Penetrating Shot
    • Improved penetrating shot
    • Quick Shot
    • Improved Quick Shot
    • Merciful Shot
    • Improved Merciful Shot
    • Distracting Shot
    • Dazing Blow
    • Improved Dazing Blow
    • Blindside
    • Low Cut
    • Set Trap
    • Purge Poison
    • Focus
    • Improved Focus
    • Intent Concentration
    • Passage of Nature/Shadow/Foes
    • Bright Campfire
    • Camouflage
    • Beneath Notice
    • Improved beneath notice
    • Find the Path
    • Desperate Flight
    • Return to Camp
    • All normal travel skills. (NOTE - Travel Ration Requirement is Removed)
    Skill Changes
    • Stances: See below for full explanation
    • Burn Hot: Receives cooldown reduction and duration increased based on trait line
    • Bright campfire: +5 stealth detection
    • Cry of the hunter: Granted at level 20, no longer stuns, still bubbles for 30 sec with knockback protection, increase run speed by 10%, breaks all CC on hunter
    • Press Onward: 2m cooldown (30s with legacy)
    • Bard’s arrow: No longer a trait and is automatically given to you. Adds 1 focus, 30s cooldown

    Stances now provide a 10 second buff when selected in addition to ongoing buffs
    Precision
    • +1032 Finesse rating / 10 Seconds
    • 1 Focus 5 Sec
    • % Critical Multiplier

    Strength
    • +1717 Critical Rating / 10 Seconds
    • 10% Ranged Damage

    Endurance
    • +10% Evade Rating / 10 Seconds
    • +1030 BPE
    • -% Power Use
    • 100% Chance of Heal on Quick Shot & chance of focus gain. Focus gain % depends on traits selected and skills gained.
    New Skills
    • Lingering wound - ToF: Ranged attack, bleeds every 2s for 8s, 3 sec cooldown. Damage tiers up for every extra use
    • Explosive arrow - ToF: Heavy fire damage to all enemies around target; 2110 - 2714 damage at 85, 30 sec cooldown
    • Piercing trap - ToF: 1 min cooldown, causes bleed and slow
    • Decoy - ToF: Draws attention of nearby foes(gains agro) lasts 1 min or until destroyed, 1 min cooldown
    • The one trap - ToF: Places a trap, heavy initial damage, bleeds, and slows. 1 min cooldown
    • Pinning shot - BM: Does damage, 5s root, cost 3 focus, 8s cooldown
    • Upshot - BM: No induction heart seeker like attack. Does more damage per focus consumed
    • Exsanguinate - HM: Blood arrow has chance to unlock, heavy bleed (Ini Dmg 545 & DoT 545 per 2 secs, for 10s) 45s cooldown
    • Barrage - HM: Damages, does increased damage through repeated use. Cost 3 focus 3s cooldown
    • Rapid Fire - HM: For 10s focus bow skills cost no focus, 1m 30s cooldown
    Legacy Changes


    • Armor, jewelery, pocket items, & class items can no longer be switched in combat.
    • Legacies must be on the active legendary item in order to be applied.
    • There should be changes made to threat reduction legacies because threat management (as I understand it) will involve DPS more than in the past. I have not been able to confirm any direct changes at this time. Smartbean's Guardian Player Guide and Redit's Warden Player Guide go into further detail on how threat is being adjusted.


    Ranged Major

    • Changes not yet confirmed.

    Ranged Minor

    • Endurance Quick Shot Threat Down - Could see changes to this as a result of threat being reworked but not yet confirmed
    • Induction Bow Threat Down - Could see changes to this as a result of threat being reworked but not yet confirmed.
    • Focus Bow Threat Down - Could see changes to this as a result of threat being reworked but not yet confirmed.

    Main-Hand Major

    • Needful Haste Duration - Chances are this will change as this is now a trait.

    Main-Hand Minor

    • Agile Rejoinder Heal Chance - Gone
    • + % Merciful Shot Critical Multiplier - New (replaces Agile Rejoinder)
    • + % Strength Stance Damage - New
    • Swift Stroke Perry and Evade Rating - Assuming this will change/be replaced as the skill is removed


    Please see the post below for a full list of legacies are they are found in the current BETA build.

    How is Threat Revamped?
    It seems to me that the easiest way to explain how hunters will need to handle the new threat mechanics would be to point you all in the direction of the Player Guide: Understanding Threat in HD link. Big thanks to bohbashum for starting that up.

    If you are looking for more general information regarding changes coming to Helm's Deep, check out this great list of guides put together by BETA players.

    ______________________________ ______________________________ ______________________________ ______________________________ ______________________________ _______
    From Brya:
    I am embedding Brya's HD BETA preview video. He does a great job with the basic changes. The video was made before the most recent build of this guide, so in the case of discrepancies, I would suggest going with the guide text. But I know some people are more visual learners so, here's the video.

    Last edited by Widoch; Mar 24 2014 at 10:40 PM.

    The Order of The Silver Flame - A fun, mature, helpful and friendly kin. Come join us on Silverlode!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
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    I'm going to put Legacies here for now as I'm sure there will be a lot of changes being made to them as the BETAs continue. Once the game goes live, I'll put the finalized info in the main post.
    ______________________________ ______________________________ ______________________________ ______________________________ ____________________________

    Thanks, Gilean-EU for this list.


    BETA 6:



    Bow Major
    Name Min Max
    Focus Bow critical multiplier +3% +25%
    Focus Bow power cost -1% -10%
    Induction Bow critical multiplier +3% +25%
    Induction Bow power cost -1% -10%
    Merciful Shot cooldown -1 -10
    Quick Shot critical chance +1% +5%
    Ranged Skill Evade Chance modifier -359 -511
    Ranged Skill Block Change modifier -359 -511
    Strength Quick Shot slow +1% +10%

    Bow Minor
    Name Min Max
    Burn Hot damage +1% +10%
    Distracting Shot cooldown -1 -15
    Distracting Shot resistance penetration -860 -1260
    Focus Bow threat down, rating 9 17
    Heart Seeker damage +2% +20%
    Hunter Damage Over Time +6% +50%
    Induction Bow damage +1% +10%
    Quick Shot damage +1% +10%
    Ranged Evade rating +359 +511



    Melee weapon Major
    Name Min Max
    AoE Skills Maximum Targets +1 +5
    Beneath Notice cooldown -5 -120
    Blindside critical rating +660 +1040
    Find The Path movement speed +1% +6%
    Improved Strength of the Earth morale regen +1% +40%
    Melee critical multiplier +3% +25%
    Needful Haste duration +1 +15
    Precision Stance critical magnitude +1% +13%

    Melee weapon Minor
    Name Min Max
    Desperate Flight cooldown -10 -600
    Low Cut bleed chance +1% +50%
    Melee Critical rating +264 +416
    Merciful Shot critical multiplier +1% +10%
    Power Restored by Deep Concentration +2% +30%
    Press Onward cooldown -5 -90
    Stealth Detection +1 +3
    Strength Stance Damage +1% +10%
    Last edited by Widoch; Nov 10 2013 at 07:34 AM.

    The Order of The Silver Flame - A fun, mature, helpful and friendly kin. Come join us on Silverlode!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    2,312
    I don't see it but one thing that must be known:

    You can no longer just use a buff stick for Find the Path. You have to have a weapon with it on it otherwise when you swap it out it drops back to 15% runspeed. Oh, and you can't swap your mainhand weapon in battle (unless they've changed that since last I checked).

    Also, there's no longer any swapping of gear in combat. I think the only thing that can be swapped is your main weapon (bow in this case) but I never tried swapping that so I can't verify it.
    Chromite/Grumbletocks/Grumbletunes/Schrade on Landroval, Chromite on Arkenstone, Appendage on Brandywine

  4. #4
    Join Date
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    Grand 'Ole NY
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    It looks like they will be changing threat down to damage specific legacies as the threat calculation changes. I saw that this past build, but don't know if the changes were a typo. The hunter feedback forum is a mess.

  5. #5
    On my last check you can not detect stealth mobs in the passage of nature/foe/shadow skill.

    A quick overview for me (more of how it plays). The redline is powerful and lots of DPS. Of course you can't move because nearly all skills are induction. I really wish they would have added to the range but they didn't. Things blow up fast (this was on my level 85 copied hunter against level 85 - 88 mobs). This could be a solo build but you don't really have any heals and because of rain of thorns is now securely in the yellow trait you are down a CC. It is not like landscape is all that tough anymore so in reality all builds could be solo. I can see using this in raids. It will be tempting to use as a moors build but with all the induction you probably need to be in a raid. It was hard to test these toons in the moors in beta because the creeps leveled up and way overpowered compared to my level 85.

    The blueline is fun but will take some time to get used to. You can run around and use most skills on the run. The DPS is lower and the range is lowered. You have access to some heals in this line. There are some nice buffs that you can trigger. I am guessing this will be a moors preferred line. I tried it and to be honest it is just not how I play. But with practice it would actually be fun and I think I would survived more in the moors. For solo this would work but again the landscape mobs aren't that tough so the lack of DPS is probably not that big of a deal.

    The yellow line is a novelty. It is fun at first but to be honest it still sucks imo. I just can't see any practical use for it. Lower DPS, slow inductions and traps that aren't a game changer. This is of course the CC line. To be honest I didn't try this in beta 5.0 so if changes happened I do not know. I did spend a lot of time playing this line because I am one of the old school players that have lobbied for (seemingly) years to make this a fun vital part of the game. To that point the devs did remake this line but it still falls short.

    Again this is just the feel that I get when playing the new hunter. You are forced to makes choices and our roles that we had before are not really available. I will say that of all the classes that I played in beta (which is nearly all except burg and mini) the hunter still feels like a hunter. A different hunter and maybe not as fun (time will tell if this remains) but still a ranged DPS dealer and easy prey for the wargs!
    they are all dead.. they just don't know it yet....

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
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    404
    YES. Maybe I will go back to my hunter. I'm cautiously optimistic about the Champion, Hunter, and Warden changes. Inductions on the move is what I've wanted for 3 years, this is great. I hope it works well.
    R6 Blackarrow, Sentry Savemepls Crykid

  7. #7
    Join Date
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    Klamath Falls, Or
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    with the red line there are a few tricks you can do that can help you get at range and get the inductions off- low cut has a root in red line play for example.

    Blue line is a blast.

    And the lack of an ability to detect stealthed enemies...well take it away from the other trackers and the store boughts too.
    A cosmos without the Doctor scarcely bears thinking about- The Master

  8. #8
    Join Date
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    Removing inductionless bleed after imp scourging blow, what could/would be the point?
    Heavy focus on self-buff. I absolutely hate it on paper. We shall see.
    Agile rejoinder...what? Why? After it finally happened? Holy hell.

    Crafted traps will be going away, but there will be a new item called Trap Parts that will enhance trap skills. This item will not be in for the release but will be added in a following update. Sorry, no time to work on this, have fun testing trapper now that we finally made it awesome! Almost! Soon!
    Wait...the legacies have not been beta tested yet?
    The LI legs have not been tested at all? Am I reading this right?
    Just checking. If I sound a little bit defensive, it is because I am.

    EDIT
    Quote Originally Posted by tkroll View Post
    with the red line there are a few tricks you can do that can help you get at range and get the inductions off- low cut has a root in red line play for example.

    Blue line is a blast.

    And the lack of an ability to detect stealthed enemies...well take it away from the other trackers and the store boughts too.
    That sounds like more kiting. Never did that. Why start now eh =)
    Hmm. Stealth...I don't pvp.
    Blue line a blast means pvp? Or is it an actual viable trait for 99% of the game, pve levels 1-95?

    Oh and...do you know if any one tester level from newly created character to 95? Just to see that the smooth game didn't go away? Everyone imported character 85 and had some fun, yes?

    EDIT2
    Quote Originally Posted by Drakojan View Post
    YES. Maybe I will go back to my hunter. I'm cautiously optimistic about the Champion, Hunter, and Warden changes. Inductions on the move is what I've wanted for 3 years, this is great. I hope it works well.
    We had induction on the move since precision stance makeover but perhaps you mean strictly for pvp?

    EDIT3
    Quote Originally Posted by anthonyx View Post
    On my last check you can not detect stealth mobs in the passage of nature/foe/shadow skill.

    A quick overview for me (more of how it plays). The redline is powerful and lots of DPS. Of course you can't move because nearly all skills are induction. I really wish they would have added to the range but they didn't. Things blow up fast (this was on my level 85 copied hunter against level 85 - 88 mobs). This could be a solo build but you don't really have any heals and because of rain of thorns is now securely in the yellow trait you are down a CC. It is not like landscape is all that tough anymore so in reality all builds could be solo. I can see using this in raids. It will be tempting to use as a moors build but with all the induction you probably need to be in a raid. It was hard to test these toons in the moors in beta because the creeps leveled up and way overpowered compared to my level 85.

    The blueline is fun but will take some time to get used to. You can run around and use most skills on the run. The DPS is lower and the range is lowered. You have access to some heals in this line. There are some nice buffs that you can trigger. I am guessing this will be a moors preferred line. I tried it and to be honest it is just not how I play. But with practice it would actually be fun and I think I would survived more in the moors. For solo this would work but again the landscape mobs aren't that tough so the lack of DPS is probably not that big of a deal.

    The yellow line is a novelty. It is fun at first but to be honest it still sucks imo. I just can't see any practical use for it. Lower DPS, slow inductions and traps that aren't a game changer. This is of course the CC line. To be honest I didn't try this in beta 5.0 so if changes happened I do not know. I did spend a lot of time playing this line because I am one of the old school players that have lobbied for (seemingly) years to make this a fun vital part of the game. To that point the devs did remake this line but it still falls short.

    Again this is just the feel that I get when playing the new hunter. You are forced to makes choices and our roles that we had before are not really available. I will say that of all the classes that I played in beta (which is nearly all except burg and mini) the hunter still feels like a hunter. A different hunter and maybe not as fun (time will tell if this remains) but still a ranged DPS dealer and easy prey for the wargs!
    Red line powerful DPS meaning it's like...twice current DPS before HD?
    Heals only in what is clearly PVP-bias angers me no end. Finally some almost usable self-heal (with enough parry) and away it went.
    Yellow introduction dev preview pep-talk was ACTION! Throw your traps mid-fight with SHAZZAM effect! Now I read long inductions. Poo = (

    EDIT4 Oh...so it's another pvp...

    HELLO @ ALL PVE HUNTERS IN BETA TEST, I want a hands-on review of the PVE hunter for the feeling playing levels 1-94, the 99.9% where you do not pvp but build your character and experience the game.

    EDIT5 Seriously...heartseeker inductionless but only useful if spending time saving focus...this is hunter, not rk? It sure sounds like an rk.

    EDIT6 A complaint is an indication that the customer WANTS to buy and LONGS to buy. The customer whines instead of just leaving quietly.

    So - anyone PVE?

    EDIT7 Are hunters getting LI passives just like LM?

    And: did anyone PVE?
    Last edited by Macroscian; Nov 04 2013 at 07:56 PM.

  9. #9
    You will find a few skills modified due to PVP on various class. Though I PvP I hate that they remove/modify skills on landscape just to balance/appease PVP. As for what Build will be best for soloing or leveling from 1 -95 I still say it doesn't really matter. Red is probably most like what I already use. Lots of DPS and not as much survivability. Blue you can survive a little more at the cost of DPS. IMO either would work. Yellow might be more of a challenge at lower levels (I doubt it) but it would work for 99% of landscape. To me the game didn't get harder with the mobs. Granted I didn't play endgame (oh wait there isn't any) or even fought mobs 90 or above.
    they are all dead.. they just don't know it yet....

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by anthonyx View Post
    You will find a few skills modified due to PVP on various class. Though I PvP I hate that they remove/modify skills on landscape just to balance/appease PVP. As for what Build will be best for soloing or leveling from 1 -95 I still say it doesn't really matter. Red is probably most like what I already use. Lots of DPS and not as much survivability. Blue you can survive a little more at the cost of DPS. IMO either would work. Yellow might be more of a challenge at lower levels (I doubt it) but it would work for 99% of landscape. To me the game didn't get harder with the mobs. Granted I didn't play endgame (oh wait there isn't any) or even fought mobs 90 or above.
    Ages ago it was pretty easy to play the hunter. S:S meant standing still and shooting.

    Recently for the lower level game, hunter has been the only really smooth experience due to fixed range skills. This combined with focus-generating and retaining focus while moving and not a lot of trouble at all. Just game experience, none of that You Must Face Target spam when you moved up to a mob with minimum lag and the mob runs through you and you face the wrong way at such close range that the autoturn movement assistance doesn't trigger. Half the time.

    I finally have a smooth game experience where I can survive without much annoying standing still or buffing self...

    To me, the game 1-94 is everything. Without that I don't play, I just pass time.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
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    Thanks everyone for the feedback so far. I'm in a different time zone than many of you, but I'll be checking back daily to update based on feedback and further changes made in BETA. Just a reminder, this guide is not meant to be a "how to play the hunter in HD" guide. I'm just trying to lay the facts out without any opinion either way about the changes. So, my guide won't have anything detailing how to get the best DPS out of the new builds, or any opinion about traps, heals, legacy changes. If something changes, I'll put it here, that's it.


    Additionally, I do not PVP much and due to my time zone couldn't make any of the BETA PVP tests. Any specifics posted here, I'll add to the guide.


    Wait...the legacies have not been beta tested yet?
    This guide simply notes recordable differences. Several of the legacies have been changed due to the fact that threat will be changing, skills changing, and other such things. It hasn't made the guide yet because I haven't been able to confirm or deny them so I don't know the exact facts. In BETA testing, sometimes we are given patch notes as changes are made, and sometimes not. If it was in a patch note, or I (or something I trust) was able to directly observe a change in game, it made it here on this guide. Please don't make assumptions about what happened in BETA as there were loads and loads of testers testing many things that needed tested. Get a code and give HD a shot. It's a big change, but after checking it out in BETA, I pre-ordered so, there's that.
    Last edited by Widoch; Nov 04 2013 at 08:20 PM.

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  12. #12
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    Basically, what we have now in Beta 5 is what we should have had in Beta 2 at least. We got a new dev, who is not even the same one who said "Hi send me all your feedback!!!" months ago, who stripped out all of our useful skills at beta 0 and gave us a gangly skeleton to work with. This did NOT get any better meaningfully until beta 4. Between beta 0 and halfway through beta 3 there was zero communication with our developer. We did not get a single bit of communication from them. This was standard across all the classes except perhaps the classes RockX was handling.

    It wasn't until halfway through beta 3 that our dev finally communicated a bit and said what to expect with beta 4. So here came beta 4 which returned several things that were taken away but not everything, of course. These changes were returning skills like barbed arrow, bard's arrow, etc. as "general" skills that don't require traiting. Several things were still bugged as well. So all of beta 0 through 3 were pretty much a waste, beta 4 got us back to something near a level of which I would say we should have started at. It is now currently beta 5. We got no release note for beta 5 so we really don't know what's changed or what to look for. So now we're in a limbo again and in a state that I feel is not ready for release at all. There's 14 days until release and perhaps maybe 1 more beta round to go. The next round of beta will probably just a preview of what's going live. Any bug reports or issues found in that beta are probably not likely to be fixed when it goes live (Unless it benefits us in some way...).

    So, fellow hunters, when Helm's Deep releases please remember to go into things with the expectation that if something is good for us it will be nerfed and your class will basically be in beta round 7, which should actually have been beta 3 several weeks ago.

    My feeling is that these class changes should NOT have had anything at all to do with Helm's Deep and should have been done before the release. It's clear that the changes to classes are really for two things: 1) To make it easier to develop content. No need to make harder/challenging content when you can just reduce what you can do with each of the classes. 2) Equalize the abilities of anyone playing the class. Those who once excelled at a class and used every skill that they had will now be limited and will perform close to someone who who didn't really care for min-maxing or learning all their skills.
    Chromite/Grumbletocks/Grumbletunes/Schrade on Landroval, Chromite on Arkenstone, Appendage on Brandywine

  13. #13
    "Crafted traps will be going away, but there will be a new item called Trap Parts that will enhance trap skills. This item will not be in for the release but will be added in a following update."

    This change doesn't sit well with me. I actually use crafted traps every now and then. Making them was virtually the only reason to level weaponsmithing for a Hunter, apart from the occasional LI.

    And speaking of LIs, this talk of legacies being currently untested isn't exactly filling me with confidence either.

    Bowmaster sounds like it's virtually the exact same playstyle I've been using for forever anyways, so not much worry there. I am sad to see that I'll be losing Rain of Thorns and Agile Rejoinder though.

    The sea is calling us home...

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dordain View Post
    "Crafted traps will be going away, but there will be a new item called Trap Parts that will enhance trap skills. This item will not be in for the release but will be added in a following update."

    This change doesn't sit well with me. I actually use crafted traps every now and then. Making them was virtually the only reason to level weaponsmithing for a Hunter, apart from the occasional LI.
    The change of putting the tripwire trap as a skill is one change I absolutely love. Boo on the parts though. Hunters have to keep multiple items in their bags (potions, oils, chants, scrolls, traps, armor, jewelery, weapons). If they were going to remove the need for an item in inventory then trap parts should never have been factored into things.

    And speaking of LIs, this talk of legacies being currently untested isn't exactly filling me with confidence either.
    Yep. All of the class changes are happening far too late in the beta for them to be properly vetted. As I mentioned in a previous post we are currently getting to a point where we should have been at in beta 2. Heck it should have been beta 1.

    Bowmaster sounds like it's virtually the exact same playstyle I've been using for forever anyways, so not much worry there. I am sad to see that I'll be losing Rain of Thorns and Agile Rejoinder though.
    Yes, if your style is casual and all you did was trait redline and stand back to pewpewpew the changes won't affect you much and you may adjust pretty quickly. I think you may be a little focus-starved though. Blue-line is majorly power starved.
    Chromite/Grumbletocks/Grumbletunes/Schrade on Landroval, Chromite on Arkenstone, Appendage on Brandywine

  15. #15
    Goodbye Agile Rejoinder, my primary source of healing since 2010... :'(
    105 Hunter, Lore Master, Beorning

  16. #16
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    Somewhat disappointing

    I join the throngs of Hunters disappointed in the removal of Agile Rejoinder. That was probably my favorite skill.
    "Oh no, they're actually killing me!"
    *use Swift Stroke, wait for parry, pop AR*
    "Oh, now, that wasn't so bad. Now they're dead, and I'm not."

    I was hoping for as much detail as in the Guardian guide, but I guess I'll just have to wait on that one. The accessibility of traits is very important. Please tell me Rain of Arrows is still accessible if you don't choose the Bowmaster line. If not, that leaves Huntsmen with...uh...ONE AoE skill? That can't be right. Give me 2 AoE's and I'll be happy.

    So the stances now give bonuses for 10s when you toggle one on? What good is that? If you stick with one stance for awhile, it does you absolutely no good whatsoever. Why not give me my Finesse/Crit Rating/Evade as a passive instead of a short burst? I'll admit that hitting Hunter's Art every 10s to get my nice Finesse was annoying; I'd much rather it be a toggle skill, even if it does consume 1 focus every 10s. But putting the 10s buff directly into the stance itself seems quite useless.

    That said, I'm really looking forward to playing Huntsman. I've wanted to learn to kite for awhile now, and this seems like a great opportunity. Rapid Fire sounds like "spam Improved Penetrating Shot as fast as your Attack Duration will allow," but that's certainly not a bad thing.

    My predictions for each line's niche:
    Bowmaster is the powerful pewpewpew for dungeons where you don't have to worry so much about getting hit.
    Huntsman is used for solo landscape play and PvMP due to its affinity for kiting.
    If Trapper of Foes is used at all, it's relegated to solo landscape play only.

    My main concern is that hunters will have less survivability when soloing. If this is balanced with increased damage/CC/kiting ability, I think I'll be OK with it.
    “Merely having an open mind is nothing. The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid.” - G.K. Chesterton
    On Landroval (Redemption): 105 GRD Lifthil, R6 | 67 WDN Liftward | 63 HNT Beinhareth | 51 CPT Liftspirit | 48 BUR Julo | 31 RNK Liftstoner | 16 CHN Liftbro | 7 BRN Liftbeorn

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lifthil View Post
    So the stances now give bonuses for 10s when you toggle one on? What good is that? If you stick with one stance for awhile, it does you absolutely no good whatsoever. Why not give me my Finesse/Crit Rating/Evade as a passive instead of a short burst? I'll admit that hitting Hunter's Art every 10s to get my nice Finesse was annoying; I'd much rather it be a toggle skill, even if it does consume 1 focus every 10s. But putting the 10s buff directly into the stance itself seems quite useless.
    The person responsible for hunter news past couple of years loves to click 5 buttons to get buffed. Hunter's art, burn hot, fleetness, use skill 1 to trigger effect in skill 2 to use skill 3. Now hunters even get an Epic Conclusion using up all focus, meaning that hunters are back to wasting time doing long and complicated activities in order to dish out a bit of DPS. Silliness! Cool times wildly varying so you don't get to buff-and-go, you have to click at random intervals that just interrupts gameplay. I can just say that I share your dislike for not having this stuff as basic passives.
    This dev now wants me to change stances every few seconds too. Please get me something I can punch.
    If I do not self-buff, I am a bad hunter player because I don't use the full range of DPS available.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macroscian View Post
    Removing inductionless bleed after imp scourging blow, what could/would be the point?
    Heavy focus on self-buff. I absolutely hate it on paper. We shall see.
    Agile rejoinder...what? Why? After it finally happened? Holy hell.

    Crafted traps will be going away, but there will be a new item called Trap Parts that will enhance trap skills. This item will not be in for the release but will be added in a following update. Sorry, no time to work on this, have fun testing trapper now that we finally made it awesome! Almost! Soon!
    Wait...the legacies have not been beta tested yet?
    The LI legs have not been tested at all? Am I reading this right?
    Just checking. If I sound a little bit defensive, it is because I am.
    You don't want us to tell you something only to be contradicted officially later, no? How would you change LI's when the skills were still being reworked? We are testing these legs. Breathe deep. These guys who made these are only giving you what they know are tattoo'd on our toons with faith they will not need Bad Ink corrections.
    I only have 3 melee skills on my bar atm. While it was nice to go toe to toe with things and beat them down with a variety of skills, this is not the intent of a ranged class, imo. There are other tools. I'm not sure what atm because...

    Quote Originally Posted by Macroscian View Post
    EDIT
    That sounds like more kiting. Never did that. Why start now eh =)
    Hmm. Stealth...I don't pvp.
    Blue line a blast means pvp? Or is it an actual viable trait for 99% of the game, pve levels 1-95?

    Oh and...do you know if any one tester level from newly created character to 95? Just to see that the smooth game didn't go away? Everyone imported character 85 and had some fun, yes?
    I don't pvp so I can better keep things away from me. Bowmaster should be able to kill things before they get too close. That remains to be seen. Huntsman can kite fairly well. You just have to be aware of your surroundings, not run right into a mob and learn to walk backwards Trapper... well...

    Quote Originally Posted by Macroscian View Post
    EDIT3


    Red line powerful DPS meaning it's like...twice current DPS before HD?
    Heals only in what is clearly PVP-bias angers me no end. Finally some almost usable self-heal (with enough parry) and away it went.
    Yellow introduction dev preview pep-talk was ACTION! Throw your traps mid-fight with SHAZZAM effect! Now I read long inductions. Poo = (
    There is no induction for trapper skills. You can drop them in combat. I have been working the Trapper most of the time since beta3. I have never really been one of the min/max hunters that always uses each skill to its maximum. If I'm having fun and things drop dead I don't care about the math. When it doesn't work I change up. That being said:
    Quote Originally Posted by Macroscian View Post
    EDIT4 Oh...so it's another pvp...

    HELLO @ ALL PVE HUNTERS IN BETA TEST, I want a hands-on review of the PVE hunter for the feeling playing levels 1-94, the 99.9% where you do not pvp but build your character and experience the game.

    EDIT5 Seriously...heartseeker inductionless but only useful if spending time saving focus...this is hunter, not rk? It sure sounds like an rk.

    EDIT6 A complaint is an indication that the customer WANTS to buy and LONGS to buy. The customer whines instead of just leaving quietly.

    So - anyone PVE?
    I did not test the trapper all the way through from level 1 to level 95. In fact I have no 95 in beta. I have been using my trapper in the big battles because it fits with the occupation I use most. (theme for another thread)
    In the Trapper line I get ground targetted skills, my traps. The time it takes to get the traps set is the time it takes me to place it. As soon as I hit the trap key I get the ground target. I now have to move my mouse to the spot I want to set the trap. Sometimes I'm too close and sometimes I am too far away. I do not like to have to do this as I also play a cappy that insta-drops banners (see cappy thread on that...) I prefer that way of insta place. However, I can put 5 or 6 traps down as soon as they are off cd. Well not all at one time of course. This is the cc line. I'm not happy yet with the damage put out by some of the traps but that is possibly an adjustment. Beta is not over. Even these lists can change but what has been posted probably will not.

    I also have tested the huntsman. I'm still unsure about the shorter range. It 'seems' to me to be a lot shorter than a 10m difference. But that may be due to the fact that I'm used to that extra range. I really like the huntsman. I did test this spec at lower levels than I did the trapper. I need to do that again since the last time I did, there were a lot of skills still missing and the game play AT THAT TIME was very boring with little to do between skills at times. This was more in the 'mid' levels ok still pretty low at 30 40 and 50. I did not try to level up to 85 in the time given. Not to make excuses for anyone but there was the class change progressions, new content/landscape AND Epic Battles to tackle.

    I don't pvp anymore. I'm too slow and my computer/connection creeks almost as much as my joints these days.

    Quote Originally Posted by Macroscian View Post
    EDIT7 Are hunters getting LI passives just like LM?

    And: did anyone PVE?
    I haven't studied the LI legacies but for this change I think they work better. I think we might be a bit more squishy than before but remember, you can pick and choose your spec out of combat as well as dip into the out of spec pool.

    • Do I like the changes?
      I'd rather be who I was on live, but thats starting to go away. Coming back to live I often forget I don't have "thisskill" or "Thatskill" and when coming back to beta I do just the reverse.
    • Do I think anyone else will like the changes?
      Not initially. This is probably the worst thing about these changes. If you remember that you are about to see something like your toon lying before you in pieces you will be better prepared for this expac.
    • Do I recommend people buy the pre order?
      If change sends you to your anixety dr, no. If you can handle a challenge go for it. If you are on the fence, you will know what is best for you.
    • Am I enjoying this updated game?
      Strangely enough I am. This is coming from someone who first logged in and cried for 30 minutes.


    The nature of existence is change. Lack of change, other than decomp, is lack of existence.

    Have fun with yer toons. All of them, well other than mules, will have to deal with this.
    Last edited by Xhiu; Nov 05 2013 at 06:34 AM.
    ...
    Sig looked hideous so I sent it to its room. It can come back and
    show off after it has thought about what it did.

  19. #19
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    I was hoping for as much detail as in the Guardian guide, but I guess I'll just have to wait on that one.

    What type of details were you hoping for? I honestly want some feedback in regards to this. My thinking at the moment is that the hunter has always been one of the least complicated classes game play wise and really with HD it seems to be simplified even more. The guardian guide has a lot of stuff differentiating between DPS/Bleed, aggro, and evade builds. Hunters basically DPS, less DPS but faster, or CC stuff.

    If there's something you'd like to have fleshed out more, let me know and I'll see what I can do. I'm just pointing out what I've been able to confirm is different from live and really, unlike aggro or RK attunement, warden gambits or even burg builders, DPS as a mechanic and the way a hunter does it haven't changed all that much.

    Anyone else who was in BETA care to remind me what our Dev said was happening with Hunter's Art? Trying to dig through the hunter forums to find it is proving difficult.

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  20. #20
    I'm not going to read this whole thread atm, and would just like to comment that blue line works very well, I dont even notice the loss of HS to redline. Barrage is a nice addition and works well in the mobile rotation. Red line feels fine, big dmg output at loss of movement. I messed around with trapper, and enjoyed it. Yellow line gives a different feel to the class imo, this a also a MOSTLY on the move build, and is about positioning, dropping traps, kiting, traps on the move, etc. I imagine that many hunter's will go blue or red, but Trapper really is quite fun, especially when I first saw 'The One Trap', I OMGLOL great animation
    As far as the loss of Agile Rejoinder, and CoTP, we can probably live with it, but unable to track stealth? Is that some kind of penalty? Are you going to take away the ability to track stealth from creeps and store trackers as well? I should think so.

    Durrga R13 Hunter *Highguard of Numenor /Medwulf (semi-retired) R10 Champ / Vei the Burg R9


  21. #21
    Where is Split Shot? I don't find it anywhere in the post, so I'm wondering where it wound up.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliel View Post
    Where is Split Shot? I don't find it anywhere in the post, so I'm wondering where it wound up.

    BETA 5.1 is up now I think, I'll pop in after work and check that out. If my memory is correct, it's in the huntsman line somewhere, I think I just missed it. I'll find out.
    Last edited by Widoch; Nov 05 2013 at 07:59 PM.

    The Order of The Silver Flame - A fun, mature, helpful and friendly kin. Come join us on Silverlode!

  23. #23
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    So...Heightened Senses so deep in TOF? I don't think that is very smart move.
    Trait trees have ruined the game

  24. #24
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    Oh and...do you know if any one tester level from newly created character to 95? Just to see that the smooth game didn't go away? Everyone imported character 85 and had some fun, yes?
    [...]
    And: did anyone PVE?
    No, I did not move a character from 1-95, because of time consideration. I did port a lvl 32 hunter and level her to 61, the 'zone' in which I tend to have the most difficulty leveling.

    IMO best build for leveling is red (no change there). I had more power issues than before (aka, my current redlined lvl 62 hunter on live only EVER has power issues if she goes into turtle), but otherwise, the game play was as smooth. I didnt need to kite PvE, things usually died about the time that they reached me and I hit them a couple times. On par with live, I could take on 2ish orange mobs, and not die. While on live, I -could- maybe kill 3-4 orange if I did everything right, I could not on beta. That's where running red, but losing the yellow skills (Rain of Thorns for example) slowed while leveling. Losing Agile REjoinder hurt. A lot. I am glad my bags were full of pots when I ported over because the consumption was higher than live. (I try not to die because it slows my leveling.)

    It seemed like any of the lines are soloable, yellow less than the other two possibly because -I- am not that great about using a CC class. My main is a mini.

    I didnt have input earlier because all of my ideas are impressions; I dont have numbers like others.

    I will say that I'm cautiously optimistic about the hunter, not least because I haven't fallen in love with a combo that I will have to learn to live without. (Losing IHW+LS on a heal cappy made me cry).

    In general, IMO, people who dont have leveled toons will have far far fewer complaints than the ones that don't, even though leveling itself feels more limited across the board.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nineran View Post
    No, I did not move a character from 1-95, because of time consideration. I did port a lvl 32 hunter and level her to 61, the 'zone' in which I tend to have the most difficulty leveling.

    IMO best build for leveling is red (no change there). I had more power issues than before (aka, my current redlined lvl 62 hunter on live only EVER has power issues if she goes into turtle), but otherwise, the game play was as smooth. I didnt need to kite PvE, things usually died about the time that they reached me and I hit them a couple times. On par with live, I could take on 2ish orange mobs, and not die. While on live, I -could- maybe kill 3-4 orange if I did everything right, I could not on beta. That's where running red, but losing the yellow skills (Rain of Thorns for example) slowed while leveling. Losing Agile REjoinder hurt. A lot. I am glad my bags were full of pots when I ported over because the consumption was higher than live. (I try not to die because it slows my leveling.)

    It seemed like any of the lines are soloable, yellow less than the other two possibly because -I- am not that great about using a CC class. My main is a mini.

    I didnt have input earlier because all of my ideas are impressions; I dont have numbers like others.

    I will say that I'm cautiously optimistic about the hunter, not least because I haven't fallen in love with a combo that I will have to learn to live without. (Losing IHW+LS on a heal cappy made me cry).

    In general, IMO, people who dont have leveled toons will have far far fewer complaints than the ones that don't, even though leveling itself feels more limited across the board.
    Thank you

    I've been re-reading the info on class change in a somewhat calmer mood but it still leaves me perplexed:
    It appears that the motivation for change in the first place was to remove unnecessary clicks and excess skills.
    As I understand it, the new trees still mean you hit self-buffing at random interval cooltimes with fleetness instead of 'dipping' into one tree for specialization granting that stuff as passives. I'm not sure I read it correctly.
    That would mean missing the opportunity to remove unnecessary clicks and instead removing necessary (agile rejoinder).

    I simply do not understand the fundamental drive to change at all.

 

 
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