Makings of 1v1s

[themannweb]

It has come to my attention of late that there has been some discord as to what people can and cannot use in 1v1s. On one side, there are people who say, "Screw the rules! This is PvP there are no rules." and are OK with blowing every CD when it's available in 1v1. On the other side, there are people who want to limit what they can or cannot use so they can make 1v1s fairer. While I agree that people are entitled to their own opinion, I happen to stand in the second point of view, where one limits the skills they use.

That being said, I put it up for discussion that there be a written set of rules that define what skills are not OK to use in 1v1s.

I know that this will probably get some negative feedback, but I don't see how it's fair for, as an example, a Champion to use all his bubbles fighting a Reaver that doesn't use any CD. Unless either the Champion really, really sucks, or the Reaver is completely and utterly amazing, the Champion will win that spar 10/10 times. I don't see the point in that. I'm open to people's feedback and ideas about this.

[firehandsjr]

To be very brief and simple. I think limiting skill use is the only way to somewhat balance fights. If you are bad and think you need cds to be even with better players.. well think what you will but you probably won't get better if your solution to lack of skill/movement is to hit the oh #### skills the devs gave you. in my personal opinion based off tons of 1v1s I will give a short list of what skills are good to not use.

Spider reflect/burrow

Warg hips (I also don't use sprint of tendon shred except for very rare cases but most wargs do so I won't set those 2 in stone)

Warleader quitters and GAG are probably the only things some may frown upon.. kinda limited by ways of cds.

BA MT GAG

reaver wrath ato DR (personally I have no trouble with dr.. cuz they die at the end you get the infamy regardless but whatever, I have gotten QQ)

Champion. Glory traited. sprint sudden defence, true heroics, dire need are pretty much always a no no. depending what you are fighting bracing attack and seeking blade can also be overkill.

Warden. shield line. against basically everything hots, DC, and NS are a no no

Hunter really nothing. I guess some complain about COTH

Mini I'd say stop heal spamming but you will never listen so,.. just cut the flops out on the off chance someone does get you low in spite of your heal spam.

Rks, AOS usually not called for. in many cases PI and WOH are also considered too much.

LM, WOTC. and waterlore in most cases. also that skill that resets most cds should also probably be left out but I forget it's name.

Burg, Ko, tng, R&A and in some cases even some of your chain cc skills is overkill. you may have to go light on cc to keep fights somewhat fair.

Cappy, no LS. I'd say don't just spam heal but like minis this probably falls on deaf ears so.. whatever

Guard, pledge heart deep breath. maybe not sprint

[themannweb]

I like that list. But adding one more for Wardens. Don't use Way of the Warden. That gives you a #### ton of in-combat morale return, +400 some critical defense, -5% attack speed and/or +5% damage (I forget which), and I think one or two more buffs. It lasts 45 seconds and has a 15 minute cooldown.

And this may be just me, but I have no problem with a Warg using their Disappear skill. As long as they continue the fight and not use it to run away. And for asking the Minstrels and Captains to not heal is like asking a War-leader or Defiler to not heal in 1v1s.

Concerning pots/brands: No ranked brand/store bought brand. Stun/fear/root/morale/power pots are OK by me.

[scratz]

Mini I'd say stop heal spamming but you will never listen so,.. just cut the flops out on the off chance someone does get you low in spite of your heal spam.

Fire, as a mini i just need to spam heals against highrank Reavers and BA's i belive(long time dont spar any highrank BA). and last fights i have done against wargs i dont spam heal ^^ but i belive im the only mini doing that.

[Nifroth]

And this may be just me, but I have no problem with a Warg using their Disappear skill. As long as they continue the fight and not use it to run away. And for asking the Minstrels and Captains to not heal is like asking a War-leader or Defiler to not heal in 1v1s.

Concerning pots/brands: No ranked brand/store bought brand. Stun/fear/root/morale/power pots are OK by me.

1st fight in the vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2Uj56bP6Tk cappy doesn't heal or use the hot ring 3 red ops. While I am not saying that everyone should play exactly like this guy, because trust me, he isn't new at this, lol, I do think that it's possible and at times (especially when facing not the highest rank opponents) people might want to consider toning their heal output down. If you never really win a fight with less than 20% of your morale (and never lose ever) something might be off.

Generally if i find someone I can't beat due to them using more than i can handle I will probably try to fight them once or twice, seeing how far i can get, if the fight isn't exactly doable I'll just not 1v1 that person (this applies to creep since freeps tend to have more at their disposal than creeps). Generally people who use cds on crick are lucky in the fact that there's not that many people to 1v1 usually and thus they get a fight or two in with people who either don't know or don't care/want to challenge themselves against something they shouldn't win probably unless they get lucky.

So my stand on 1v1s is - you can use whatever you use, but be prepared to have no one to use it against.

[Nifroth]

Of-course everyone has their capabilities that are influenced by physical skills(and/or time they want to invest trying to improve), strongly gear as well if you're a freep, bfp, lag and other things.

I personally enjoy having a tough, but possible fight.
For people who are interested these are my personal rules I go by

Burglar (things like TNG, FF, set KO, HIPS, RNA, morale pots aren't used) against

Warg Both start out of stealth, no stuns, no dazes, often I'll try for no glee, depending on how it goes i might not use my slow from dust either.

Warleader Depending on the opponent I might attempt to fight without CC, definitely no cc spam lockdown though.

Black arrow Depending on the tactics applied might go no stuns, no traited enrage(only for trolling maybe, hah)

Defiler Pretty much same as WL, though stuns and stuff might be more needed here with the reflect doing tons of dmg with all those attacks

Reaver If fighting a reaver who won't use charge and impale or just isn't that quick of a burst dps user yet starting out of stealth and not cc. Depending on the reaver and OPs might not use CC either

Weaver Probably the toughest fight in many cases. Stuns are a given in most cases


Most of these rules I find would be fair for more or less any burglar with audacity gear and half decent gear. In general just none of the 1st mentioned skills and no cc spam on warg



Champion (Never using Sudden defense, true heroics, dire need,controlled burn, sprint, fervour pots, morale pots are never used) Note that I do use some gearswapping in most fights that are against ranked opponents

Warg Starting at my base morale (so around 11k or w/e, i can't remember) no ISB, no hedge, no bracing attack, i'll also try to not use stun pots either

Warleader Starting at base morale, no ISB, no hedge usually, might attempt no bracing, but against the better WLs that usually isn't a good idea :P

Black arrow This is the one case where the sprint rule might be broken if the BA is attempting to hinder kite without giving any chance of reaching melee range. If the ba goes about it in a more stationary way I might not use bracing attack and ofc no ISB.

Defiler Pretty much same as warleader only bracing will probably be needed almost always >.> MIGHT stance dance, but i haven't 1v1ed a filer since u10 so idk if that really would be needed/fair

Reaver Starting at a high morale, no hedge, no bracing attack, no ISB, pretty much nothing other than starting at high morale with really low crit rating...

Weaver Generally similar to reaver, bracing might be needed in some cases,but i try to not use it at all


I do realise these are my rules for my toon (more for people curious) but the basic outline can be kept the same, the no go skills should be the same in almost all fights other than sprint. Usage of bracing would probably be on in most fights other than fighting a warg if you have a healing ring or pocket cuz that makes the heals you get pretty darn high. ISB could be used against most classes as well other than warg, cuz a good remorseless can chop off like 1/3rd of a wargs health bar...

[Blato]

I think we should all just autoattack.

[AlmontRaider]

This reminds me of Mortal Kombat in the arcade when people used to complain about others using throws. Then those players in FPS that complain about people using grenades. Everything outside of Code of Conduct is figured on a person to person basis. If someone doesn't abide by a "person's" rules but stays within the Code of Conduct, they're playing by the rules. I understand that people enjoy 1 v 1's and they should be able to enjoy them but if they're engaged in a 1 v 1 and someone interrupts it, they shouldn't cry about it. If they do cry about it, that's all they can do because a GM won't do a thing about it.

There was a time that I honored 1 v 1's on this server until I saw what I thought at the time was a serious cheap shot. Grungen killed his opponent and had a sliver of life left just to have a hunter who was watching one shot him. In the end, that hunter was well within his/her rights to get that kill. If I see a 1 v 1, I'm jumping in. I don't log in to watch others play. If this doesn't get some emotionally triggered response, I'll be shocked.

[Clepto]

Pathetic, ridiculous and entertaining to boot.

Meanwhile, in a garage where two drag racing enthusiasts are talking...

Racer X - "Hey man, let both compete at building a small block engine and seeing who is the better of the two. Well race at the local strip and may the best man win. By the way, I'll choose to build a Mopar engine."
Racer Z - "Ok ,sounds like a great idea. We're both competitive and 'do this for fun', so I'll take you up on that challenge. I'll choose to build a small block Ford."
Racer X - "Ok, but you can't use any of the Snap-On tools in your tool box though."
Racer Z - "What the hell are you talking about? Just because I have Snap-On tools doesn't give me an advantage over you on building the engine. You have the same five fingers on each hand that I do. Just because you choose to build a different engine and don't have the tools I do doesn't mean that my build will out perform yours. Don't make excuses for your $#% being slow and underpowered - that's your fault."

[Farriel]

Pathetic, ridiculous and entertaining to boot.

Meanwhile, in a garage where two drag racing enthusiasts are talking...

Racer X - "Hey man, let both compete at building a small block engine and seeing who is the better of the two. Well race at the local strip and may the best man win. By the way, I'll choose to build a Mopar engine."
Racer Z - "Ok ,sounds like a great idea. We're both competitive and 'do this for fun', so I'll take you up on that challenge. I'll choose to build a small block Ford."
Racer X - "Ok, but you can't use any of the Snap-On tools in your tool box though."
Racer Z - "What the hell are you talking about? Just because I have Snap-On tools doesn't give me an advantage over you on building the engine. You have the same five fingers on each hand that I do. Just because you choose to build a different engine and don't have the tools I do doesn't mean that my build will out perform yours. Don't make excuses for your $#% being slow and underpowered - that's your fault."

This story applies to freeps and creeps, IF they are balanced :P No one told you freeps are way too overpowered right now? XD


On my cappy, I personally refused to use any scrolls, non-cappy buffs (morale & power boost/ 5% dps/ tomes of defense, etc.), token, or food. No morale pots either. Or dot removal pots (wound, poison, etc.) if the opponent is R8 and below and non-p2w. I do not use last stand as long as my opponent doesn't pop CD either.

For other toons, I go by rules dictated by Fire and Thor. They are good rules to make 1v1s fair and more fun!

I also agree the rules are personal preference, though. It is a game after all. Do what you please. We all have a choice not to fight someone

./cheers

[Spider29]

the Reaver is completely and utterly amazing

Story of my life that explains why so many freeps use cds on me

[Erlessa]

I think we should all just autoattack.

1v1 is an odd concept for me anyway so adding rules to it... some people have other disadvantages working against them (eg serious stufflike actual physical disabilities or small stuff like in my case no mouse -> no fast turning). I think it's cool if some players have it more interesting for them if they limit themselves but suggesting it's something everyone should do is pretty much nonsense.

[EmyrSelyf]

This thread looks a bit similar.

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...on-certain-cds

[Nifroth]

This thread looks a bit similar.

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...on-certain-cds

While true, people who are the target audience probably won't want to read other stuff (and that thread isn't really that full with meaningful info) I personally accept the fact that not everyone is interested in 1v1s at all or making them more fair seeing the current balance. Everyone has their own right and wrong and do-s and don't-s. The best merrit of 1v1ing without the usage of cds or maybe even just playing for a longer time without them is learning to use them better.
I remember i started to limit myself hard on cds when most of TDH were on CM to 1v1 and I was only one there to entertain them. Since I couldn't make it known that a cd is down i had to fight in w/e way so i figured might as well not bother with most (tho i spammed sprint like a noob, lol)

Btw, you could ask about something cool in your visit as a C-Member. Like if we could get events in the moors and otuside with staff again! :P Cuz i bet most real pvp issues are already spammed at Yicky :P

[EmyrSelyf]

Btw, you could ask about something cool in your visit as a C-Member. Like if we could get events in the moors and otuside with staff again! :P Cuz i bet most real pvp issues are already spammed at Yicky :P

Well in gratitude for a tiny charity donation, Sapience will be on Crickhollow creepside on Nov 9th for an hour or two
I'm thinking this is on a regular greenie, but I'm not sure. I also think it might be streamed lol.

While, sadly, I can't say specifically what I have asked for or haven't, or whether I will bring it up or not, I can say that I have always wanted them to come out visibly more often. They are always out there playing though... watching...waiting....it could be that hobbit next door... or the old elf lady down the street..

If anyone has anything more you'd like me to mention, though..... send me some PMs by tomorrow night. I've already had a few this week.

[Sakoals]

I love 1v1s,in my opinion its the most enjoyable and challenging part in the moors after RvR.
But im very disapointing by to the fact that no one is sparring my weaver anymore Im not using reflect or burrow just like Fire and Thor said before.
Last night in order to increase the challenge against some melee classes i 1v1 them without using my pet,creep-pots and daze at the beginning of the fight.

Im gonna give a tip to Freeps that maybe will help them against weavers.In my opinion the most op skill that weaver has is the catch-prey.It steals 10% b/p/e from the target and it transfers it to the weaver.Try to remove that by stun the spider or take a distance 20+ meter .Without that the morale pool drops very easily and i think it has 30sec cooldown.

As i said i love 1v1s and thats why i recently made a reaver i wiss with that creep i will have more 1v1s.

[Sakoals]

I love 1v1s,in my opinion its the most enjoyable and challenging part in the moors after RvR.
But im very disapointing by to the fact that no one is sparring my weaver anymore Im not using reflect or burrow just like Fire and Thor said before.
Last night in order to increase the challenge against some melee classes i 1v1 them without using my pet,creep-pots and daze at the beginning of the fight.

Im gonna give a tip to Freeps that maybe will help them against weavers.In my opinion the most op skill that weaver has is the catch-prey.It steals 10% b/p/e from the target and it transfers it to the weaver.Try to remove that by stun the spider or take a distance 20+ meter .Without that the morale pool drops very easily and i think it has 30sec cooldown.

As i said i love 1v1s and thats why i recently made a reaver i wiss with that creep i will have more 1v1s.

i forgot to mention that my weaver is r9 Gosmith and my new reaver is r4 Gozmith. Cya in the moors

[Herja]

The truth is what people already stated: you fight as you like (traits, buffs and skills). But don't expect people to pick you as a spar if you go all OP on them.

Now... to define "all OP"... hard to do. As Farr pointed out, some creeps you can completely nerf yourself to fight against, others, you'll need some OP usage...

For instance: as warden, I've tried to not use bleeds or reflect against some creeps. Failed big time! Lacked DPS (probably cause I still use 2nd agers).

I'm usually not using HoTs (spiders are kicking my butt).
Defiant Challenge and Last Stand are out of the table, ofc (Tops, sorry I misclicked it 2 times against you. Gave you the kill, tho =P)

But in the end, it's about the player. I like running blue line some times and trying to tank a big group of creeps. It's fun to me! And creeps get the kill in the end anyway...

[firehandsjr]

I love 1v1s,in my opinion its the most enjoyable and challenging part in the moors after RvR.
But im very disapointing by to the fact that no one is sparring my weaver anymore Im not using reflect or burrow just like Fire and Thor said before.
Last night in order to increase the challenge against some melee classes i 1v1 them without using my pet,creep-pots and daze at the beginning of the fight.

Im gonna give a tip to Freeps that maybe will help them against weavers.In my opinion the most op skill that weaver has is the catch-prey.It steals 10% b/p/e from the target and it transfers it to the weaver.Try to remove that by stun the spider or take a distance 20+ meter .Without that the morale pool drops very easily and i think it has 30sec cooldown.

As i said i love 1v1s and thats why i recently made a reaver i wiss with that creep i will have more 1v1s.

I have trouble getting 1v1s as my spider too :P I suppose is cuz for physical classes spiders are relatively hard to fight haha. With a reaver you should get more 1v1s

[Spider29]

I have trouble getting 1v1s as my spider too :P I suppose is cuz for physical classes spiders are relatively hard to fight haha. With a reaver you should get more 1v1s

[firehandsjr]

People are more willing to fight reavers, unless you are OP like Shagger. So if you aren't OP! you will get more 1v1s as a reaver :P

[Spider29]

People are more willing to fight reavers, unless you are OP like Shagger. So if you aren't OP! you will get more 1v1s as a reaver :P

[themannweb]

People are more willing to fight reavers, unless you are OP like Shagger. So if you aren't OP! you will get more 1v1s as a reaver :P

Except I'm always willing to 1v1 Shagger.

[Spider29]

Except I'm always willing to 1v1 Shagger.

[themannweb]

Can't now. I don't have VIP and I see no point in wasting money for 8 days worth of Moors play. It's not like I'm going to rank in those 8 days.