Suck it up... Lol I guess so...
All-in-all I'm looking forward to the changes though, could be intresting
Ty for clarifying!
after that you choose where to spend your points whether that be your main line (same as spec) as traits will cost 1 each or off-spec which will cost 2 each. as a general rule of thrumb most lines have about 51 traits in them but it's probably more realistic to spend 30-40 traits in your main line then the rest in an off-spec.
so yes if you want to you can spec blue and trait red, or, spec red and trait blue. either way is possible but you really need to play around with the builds to see which one is better. each will have pro's and con's but I do think hybrid builds are very viable still. because you can re-trait any time out of combat, there is no reason not to make specialist builds for fights.
- For those that do not know, the Ettenmoors banner gives ~1500 tact/phys mit when planted on the ground. This bonus is lost on the current beta build, and that makes the banner identical to a standard War-banner.
EDIT: Ofc, no lvl95 moors items are added yet. Hopefully they will change the stats on the lvl 95 moors banner in some way.
Last edited by Theorl; Nov 06 2013 at 11:49 AM.
One of the four Taralom brothers.
Stop trying to snow the issue.
Getting extra morale only holds any value until you have enough buffer to avoid oneshots (and quick deaths), after that you want mitigations. The changes to stats on items (big chunks of vitality) will be making a lot of difference, especially for classes that usually had very low morale to get as much mastery and crit as possible. 700-800 morale @ lvl 75 and 85 made a big difference because it'd easily be 6-12% extra max morale for glass cannons (so big AoEs like in Saruman fight wouldn't be one-shotting you), that doesn't seem to be the case in HD. Unless they increase damage from mobs a LOT, 6-12% extra morale won't have the same value it used to have because oneshots will be less of an issue.
Last edited by Tathlethril; Nov 08 2013 at 06:32 PM.
I like some of what I see for the changes in Captain but we are now pretty bound to a couple stupid changes that I really see no merit in when it comes to raiding. Many others have pointed this out as well.
When in Hands of Healing - Why do I want to give focus to a healer? Why? Because in the end it benefits me to do more heals when I trait for it. Why do I want Song Brother on a healer when I am also traited for HoH? Unless the raid is that critical with needing the heals for that boost... I suppose again, it benefits me. In actuality, normally I give myself Relentless since the criticals boost healing as well. This is just not so well thought out to me.
When in Red Line - The DPS bonuses, which I normally apply anyway will help the party.. but it has to be done through combat and is for a short duration. These benefits for Blade Brother also apply to me to boost my DPS. In seriousness, I didn't play Captain to be a hoss at DPS. My buff choice would still, in most cases, be Relentless for the crits.
When in Yellow Line - Why am I only able to benefit my party with tanking bonuses? Why would I also focus on Shield Brother for the tank if I am also tanking? Because it benefits me? Rah rah.
My deal here is that the Captain is supposed to be a support class and not be just thinking about himself. Ok, so I get bonuses for putting buffs on others and traiting a specific way so I get them? It makes 'me' more useful but it doesn't make my use to the party as useful with buffs that accurately portray the need of the party as a whole. This is like it is catering to whiners who complained we don't do enough of one function or another and so now we are locked. The Captain wasn't meant in a raid to think about just what he/she can do. It was about what they can do for others.
My suggestion to cure this would be that it is fine to leave the 'bonuses' in trait line of full 'Song Brother' benefits in HoH or tanking in yellow etc... but that the actual Tactics return as choices for us to make prior to combat again and they have an actual duration. This has been a -very- common issue for captains to grant tactics based on people's classes... not on how -we- choose to trait. I suppose I'm going to have to adapt but it makes us actually in some ways less useful. I'm rather disappointed we can't do 'Brother' skills based on who we want to aid/protect either and now it is traited instead so we must choose the optimal one type of class (healer, dps, tank). We're going to be swapping trees mid combat if we want to even have any chance at benefiting our party in old raids.
Also, I thought they wanted to stream line each class in the game to have a function but seems they also want us to remove now fear/wound/disease/poison 1 each instead of letting each class have 3 removals of one specific target. Not that thrilled about that either.
Are captains even now going to be that useful since we can't do proper buffs at onset of combat? If I trait HoH, no longer do we give decent dps buffs etc. Also, not so thrilled about the herald #### again, but ah well, I could deal. My major worry is seriously about the first issues that many people have raised and it seems like the Captain is just now more... greedy, buffing up his function in the raid and giving perhaps useless bonuses to others who don't need them... like 'focus' on dps and tanks. This needs addressed and refined. If it doesn't happen this release, it will have to eventually or we're not going to be that good anymore, even as we benefit individually from it. It's either that or we really do learn to retrait on the fly to swap out HoH for Leader, etc so we can get the proper buffs to people as required.
Last edited by Celebadan; Nov 08 2013 at 05:55 PM.
I appreciate you raising the issues. I also thank you for doing a fine job in explaining things. It's sad we're not really being listened to though and it is almost as if someone who designed this actually doesn't know the class functionality as we do. Hopefully, something will change prior to release. I really hope so anyway. Other classes work better with this tree system but Captain still seems the one class that is the most broken.
Song-brother passives increases Critical Defence (good for tank) and masteries (meh for tank).
Song-brother To Arms will increase the tanks self-healing. (and AFAIK there'll be changes to To Arms)
Song-brothers call increases Tactical Mastery for a tiny bit more self-healing and damage from some skills.
Inspire morale+power heal will be at full effect on the tank.
Had Captains had the new Relentless buff in all three lines I think the very majority of Captain players would be fine about that.
That is IMO because most content is too easy and Relentless+Blade-brother allows us to complete the content faster so we can get to another lottery ticket chest for our small hope of a golden item. We've never/rarely really needed to buff survivability for the whole group apart from the occasional IHW+LS, and therefore the new Focus and On Guard seen rather useless. As I said before, I hope we'll see better and more challenging content in the future where survivability beyond the tank is actually needed, then I think our Focus and On Guard buffs will fit right in.
Also, the separation of buffs can become a nice combo if you bring more than 1 Captain in a fellowship as the buffs stack AFAIK (so you can have e.g. Focus and Relentless at the same time with a HoH and a LtC Captain).
Last edited by Elrantiri; Nov 08 2013 at 10:34 PM.
But you should see the champion. Separating its dps role into two trees is going to be a complete disaster. That class is pretty much unplayable.
Last edited by dietlbomb; Nov 09 2013 at 07:29 AM.
I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. ~ Faramir
Undo the U12 class changes. The trait trees were, are, and will always be a bad idea.
Maedhric 100 Captain, Nunion 93 Champion, Taraviel 85 Minstrel, etc...
I did some LI testing so here's legacies as they are in Beta 6:
(OP already had a list, but I thought I posted a bit more details since I was doing this for all classes anyway )
Name Min Max Captain Area-effect Healing +1% +15% Melee Skill Critical Multiplier +1% +15% Melee Skill Power Cost -1% -10% Oathbreaker's Shame duration +1 +10 Pressing Attack and Devastating Blow Critical Rating +359 +511 Pressing Attack Max Targets +1 +5 Telling Mark Damage +2% +5% To Arms Duration +1 +15
Name Min Max Battle States and Defeat Response Duration +1 +5 Blade of Elendil Damage +3% +25% Bleed Damage +4% +40% Cry Power Cost -1% -10% Defensive Strike Armour Buff +330 +610 Inspire Damage +3% +25% Make Haste Duration +1 +25 Routing Cry Damage +4% +40% Tactics Duration +1 +15
Name Min Max Captain Critical Healing Magnitude +1% +15% Melee Skills Healing +1% +15% Noble Mark Damage +1% +50% Rallying Cry Healing +1% +15% Sure Strike Damage +3% +25% Valiant Strike Morale Return +1% +10% Vocal Skills Healing +1% +15% Words of Courage Power/Morale Cost -1% -10%
Name Min Max Bleed Pulses +1 +9 Devastating Blow and Pressing Attack Damage +3% +25% Last Stand Duration +1 +10 Light Skill Damage +3% +25% Shadow's Lament Damage +1% +15% Shield of the Dúnedain Duration +1 +10 Time of Need Buff Duration +1 +10 Words of Courage Pulses +1 +14
Just glancing over your list, appreciate the time that went in to it, but the following are probably bugs or badly balanced:
Both weapon legacies that give "ratings" (pressing attack/devastating blow crit rating and defensive strike armour rating) give such small bonuses that they are practically worthless at 85, let alone at 95. Furthermore (and honestly worse) there is also very little increase from 0 investment and full investment of legacy points, in fact by investing dozens of LI points you cant even double the initial value. Star lit crystals help with the first issue (increasing all ratings) but afaik they increase by a flat %, so even with 3 crystals you probably will not double your bonus with a significant cost vs practically no cost for just having it sat on the weapon.
To Arms duration is probably still overpowered relative to the others, and practically the only thing worthwhile in all three specs, except perhaps:
Melee power cost was, before the recent fate revamp, fairly essential, which makes it a band-aid for poor class balancing, rather than a "choice". I have no idea how things measure up now. But since I have ducked out of beta since my opinion is apparently unwanted I will not be bothering to test that.
WoC pulses? Seriously? Is _anyone_ planning on spending LI points on that?
I see a number of legacies that fix skills broken by the current changes IE Last Stand duration, good luck getting use out of a 7 second version if you are supposedly tanking without dying the moment it wears off)
I think the HoTs from WoC can also trigger the "+1% crit chance on crit" buff and perhaps even trigger the "On Captain heal, 10% chance of SOMEBUFF/SOMEHEAL" items. Also, with HoH crit magnitude set bonus+legacy, some high crit rating and crit chance in HoH, the HoT from WoC might be a lot more useful than it is on Live?
Also, considering WoC is pretty much our only way of healing soldiers in Big Battles, pulses might be at least somewhat useful there?
Last edited by Elrantiri; Nov 10 2013 at 03:02 PM.
The legacy changes for Helm's Deep have mostly targeted legacies that were either invalidated by the skill changes in the revamp or else otherwise problematic. WoC Pulses doesn't fit either category.
Cainwen Ciaphas, Captain of Crickhollow, HERO OF MIDDLE EARTH!!!
I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered! My opinions are my own!
With the changes to Captains coming, would you say they are more survivable if spec'd as a tank with new mechanics? I always wanted to make my Captain function as a tank, but he felt so weak compared to my Guardian in both damage and survivability that I always just went back to playing my Guard.
Any input would be appreciated. Thanks.
It's got a long tail for a HoT, which means you that you don't have to heal the QQer as often because they see the HoT buff and don't need to ask for MOAR HOTS!
Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir
Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West
I now am forced to use a herald or do without.
Now the x-brother skill is based on what spec I choose, rather than what is suitable for the situation. And the same for my tactics skill. And which former "legendary" traits I have...
It is misleading to speak of a more flexible trait system, when our options have been so limited.
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