We have detected that cookies are not enabled on your browser. Please enable cookies to ensure the proper experience.
Page 1 of 20 1 2 3 4 5 11 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 492
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Dublin, Ireland
    Posts
    1,577

    Player Guide: Class Changes Summary: Captain

    As requested by Sapience, here is a summary of changes covering the Captain class, intended to help ease the transition from the old system to the new, and to highlight what was removed, merged, added, and changed.

    Note: Any of the highlighted information may be subject to change.

    [This is a work in progress. Based on Build 5.1, updated 06/11/13. All ratings are based on a level 91 character, unless otherwise noted.]

    A Brief Introduction

    The class changes and new trait trees are a significant update to LOTRO's class system, and many will be understandably nervous about the transition. While these changes are huge, the core gameplay remains the same, and the fundamentals of the class are still in place. Captain remains a flexible heavy armour class that can DPS, heal or tank (and can do each of these significantly better in the respective trees), all the while providing a slew of buffs to the Captain, and to the Fellowship at large.

    Skills

    The first thing to note is that while some skills have been removed, their functionality has been merged into other skills. Additionally, some skills that might initially appear like they have been removed are found either directly locked behind a class specialisation (Valiant Strike, Shadow's Lament, and Threatening Shout) or are located in the trait trees. Skill cooldowns are decreased almost across the board.

    Tactics

    Perhaps the most notable omissions are the Tactics skills, which are now active combat buffs that proc when Sure Strike is used followed a Battle-readied event (i.e. Battle-shout). These buffs last for 30s and there is a legacy available that can boost thus up by a further 15s, for a total duration of 45s. The specific buffs are tied behind each specialisation, but they all provide a slew of boosts, so at least some of these will benefit any class.

    Focus (Hands of Healing)
    -5% Attack Duration
    +5% Incoming Healing
    +2% Tactical Mitigation
    Bonus: +1% morale heal every 5s for 10s

    Relentless Attack (Lead the Charge)
    +1030 Critical Rating
    +3676 Physical Mastery Rating
    +3676 Tactical Mastery Rating
    +5% Outgoing Healing

    On Guard (Leader of Men)
    +1299 Parry Rating
    +3% Defence
    -10% Power Cost

    Marks

    • The Mark skills can now be found in tier 2 of each of the trait lines. Generally speaking a player will pick just one of them, but hybrid builds may have two or all three.
    • Noble Mark applies a DoT (314 Light Damage every 3s at level 91) to a mob and heals the Captain for 1% of his/her morale every time the Captain (and only the Captain) strikes the mob.
    • Telling Mark and Revealing Mark's stats remain unchanged.
    • The cooldowns for all Marks have been removed.


    Motivating Speech and In Defence of Middle-earth (IDOME) have been merged into a single toggle skill, Improved Motivating Speech, which stays on. The legacy boost of +5% morale has been incorporated into the base skill, which now provides +10% morale. The IDOME portion of the buff now provides +1 stat per level up to 85, then +3 stats per level from 85-95, for a total of +115 to each stat at level 95.

    Brother Skills have seen some big changes. They are now tied by line, but the buffs they provide are more appealing across the board.

    Song-brother (Hands of Healing)
    +516 Critical Defence
    +204 Physical Mastery
    +340 Tactical Mastery

    Blade-brother (Lead the Charge)
    +516 Critical Defence
    +340 Physical Mastery
    +204 Tactical Mastery

    Shield-brother (Leader of Men)
    +860 Critical Defence
    +204 Physical Mastery
    +204 Tactical Mastery

    Inspire restores power and morale (in varying amounts), regardless of which Brother skill is used.

    Defensive Strike has been removed, but a set bonus for Leader of Men provides the armour buff from this to Sure Strike, along with a boost to Parry.

    Sure Strike has a cooldown of 3s, down from 6s. It also now triggers the Tactics buffs when used in a Battle-readied state.

    Escape from Darkness is our only in-combat rez skill for all builds, but it upgrades to a newly revamped Cry of Vengeance in the Hands of Healing line, which allows for a specific person to be targeted for a rez, while also bringing up another person within a short radius. Either variant of the rez has a 5 min cooldown as standard. The upgrade applies the same buff to nearby Fellowship members that it did previously. We still have our out-of-combat rez Inspiriting Call.

    Rallying Cry and Routing Cry can now be used without a Defeat Event, but they are stronger with one. The power heal for the former or stun for the latter (when appropriately traited) only apply with a Defeat Event. Both have a 15s cooldown, down from 45s.

    Time of Need (now with a 2 min cooldown, down from 5 mins) no longer costs morale, instead costing a small amount of power (85 power at level 85). In addition to it giving the Captain a Defeat Event, it provides the following 20s buff for just the Captain:

    -20% Attack Duration
    +20% Melee Damage
    +20% Tactical Damage
    +20% Melee Skills Critical Multiplier

    Withdrawal and Fighting Withdrawal no longer reduce the Captain's threat (due to the threat revamp) or his/her damage output. Instead, both remove Dazes, Stuns and Knockdown effects from the Captain, while the latter also boosts Parry by 30% for 30s. 2 min cooldown.

    Strength of Will has largely been replaced by the various Call skills (see New Skills).

    Battle-shout has a 20s cooldown. Range increased from 20m to 40m (to help with ranged pulls, since Threatening Shout and Noble Mark are gated by the Leader of Men line).

    Kick has a cooldown of 20s (down from 1 min).

    Muster Courage has a cooldown of 20s (down from 30s). It now removes one Fear/Wound/Disease/Poison instead of 3 Fears.

    Grave Wound has a cooldown of 20s (down from 30s). It always applies its bleed and no longer increases threat (due to the threat revamp).

    Valiant Strike has a cooldown of 30s (down from 1 min 30s).

    Shadow's Lament has a cooldown of 20s (down from 45s).

    Make Haste has a cooldown of 3 mins (down from 5 mins).

    Last Stand has a cooldown of 5 mins (down from 15 mins). It has a duration of 7s as standard (17s with legacy). It applies a ~866-1238 morale heal.

    In Harm's Way has a cooldown of 3 mins (down from 5 mins). Traiting for it can reduce incoming damage by 20% while active.

    Shield of the Dúnedain has a cooldown of 2 mins (down from 5 mins). It's duration is now 10s, down from 15s (but can be increased to 20s with a legacy). It can now be cast on self (making it a powerful tanking tool).

    Oathbreaker's Shame has a cooldown of 3 mins (down from 5 mins).

    Battle-readied states (Battle-shout, Time of Need, Shadow's Lament, Valiant Strike) provide the following buff to the Captain:

    +5% Melee Damage
    +5% Tactical Damage

    Battle-hardened states (Pressing Attack, Devastating Blow) provide the following buff to the Captain:

    +5% Outgoing Healing
    -5% Incoming Melee Damage
    -5% Incoming Ranged Damage
    -5% Incoming Tactical Damage

    New Skills

    Cleanse Corruption (Base Skill): A new melee attack that deals damage and removes 1 Corruption. 15s cooldown.

    Gallant Display (Hands of Healing): A melee skill that heals the Fellowship. The more often it is used, the more it heals and damages, but the more it costs (in morale and power) too. 5s cooldown.

    Reform the Lines! (Hands of Healing): Costs substantial morale (~3,500 at 85), but heals the Fellowship by 10% of their morale initially, plus 4% every 2s for 10s. 2 min cooldown.

    Standard of Honour (Hands of Healing): Must be targeted at a mob. Drops a banner, deals direct Light damage, and then heals nearby Fellowship members by a small amount every 1s for 30s. 1 min cooldown.

    Song-brother's Call (Hands of Healing): While active, if the Captain or Song-brother crits, the other will receive a Tactical Mastery Rating buff. 1 min 30s cooldown.

    Standard of War (Lead the Charge): Must be targeted at a mob. Drops a banner, deals direct Light damage, and boosts damage of nearby Fellowship members by 15% (when fully traited) for 30s. 1 min cooldown.

    Blade-brother's Call (Lead the Charge): While active, if the Captain or Blade-brother hits, the other will receive a damage buff. 1 min 30s cooldown.

    Strength in Numbers (Leader of Men): Grants a small Heal over Time (per 1s over 5s) to the Captain, based on the number of nearby Fellowship members (up to 5). 1 min 30s cooldown.

    Standard of Valour (Leader of Men): Must be targeted at a mob. Drops a banner, deals direct Light damage, and boosts Incoming Healing of nearby Fellowship members by 15% (when fully traited) for 30s. 1 min cooldown.

    Shield-brother's Call (Leader of Men): While active, if the Captain or Blade-brother gets hit, the other will receive a morale boost. 1 min 30s cooldown.

    Heralds, Archers and Standards

    One thing Captains may notice immediately is that they can no longer plant a Standard to receive the banner buffs. Instead we must summon our neglected Heralds to provide these buffs. Before you panic, most of the reasons why Standards were vastly superior have been addressed, resulting in Heralds being far more viable than before. Note that the same applies to Archers.

    1. Heralds and Standards are no longer mutually exclusive. You can slot your Standard and still summon a Herald, thus benefiting from the boost to your character's stats and having a pet out simultaneously.
    2. Heralds can now be summoned in combat. This addresses the problem of them dying in a battle and the Captain and Fellowship losing the applicable buffs.
    3. Heralds can now be summoned much more quickly. The summoning induction has been reduced from 3s to 1s, making it far easier to get the Herald back into battle.
    4. Herald survivability and damage has been significantly increased, making them far more useful. I used to have a Herald called Useless, but he now deserves a name change.
    5. Pet AI has improved. If you haven't used your Herald in a while, you might not be aware of improvements to the AI and the Rally! icon added with Rise of Isengard, which allows you to summon the Herald to wherever you are standing. This addresses problems where pets get stuck or cannot reach your location (if you jump down a cliff, for example), or end up going the long way around, aggroing while they go.

    The buffs the Heralds give have also been changed:

    Banner of War: +2% Melee, Ranged and Tactical Damage
    Banner of Victory: -10% Power Cost
    Banner of Honour: +3% Physical Mitigation and Tactical Mitigation

    Trait Trees

    Note: Number in (brackets) is the number of ranks of that trait available.

    Hands of Healing

    Spec Bonuses

    • Grants Skill Valiant Strike
    • On every Captain healing skill, 10% chance to heal +315.6 - 450.8 Morale (at level 85)
    • Sure Strike procs Focus when used in a Battle-readied state


    Set Bonuses

    • Tier 1 (5 Ranks): Readied Strike (Valiant Strike grants a Battle-readied state)
    • Tier 2 (10 Ranks): Uplift (Critical Heals increase the Captain's Critical Hit chance by 1% for 10s. Can stack 3 times)
    • Tier 3 (15 Ranks): Elendil's Favour (Blade of Elendil will boost the healing of the next Valiant Strike by 20%)
    • Tier 4 (20 Ranks): Tactition's Prowess (+50% Critical Heal Magnitude)
    • Tier 5 (25 Ranks): Song-brother's Call (Grants Skill Song-Brother's Call)
    • Tier 6 (30 Ranks): Blessing of the Song (Captain gains the full benefits of the Song-brother skills and buffs)
    • Tier 7 (35 Ranks): Inspiriting Presence (Critical Heals with Inspire or Valiant Strike guarantee a crit for the Song-brother's next Tactical skill. Inspire's healing increases based on the tier of Gallant Display)


    Traits


    Tier 1
    • (2) Reversal (Increased Melee Damage on Critical Events [+3-6%])
    • (3) Skilled Hands (Extra Tactical Damage and Outgoing Healing [+1-3%])
    • (5) Bolstered Resolve (Extra Outgoing Healing with Shield [+1-5%])

    Tier 2
    • (3) Blood of Númenor (Extra Morale and Power for revived targets [+25-50%], with final rank turning Escape from Darkness into Cry of Vengeance)
    • (1) Revealing Mark (Grants Skill Revealing Mark)
    • (4) Dignified Spectalce (Increased Melee and Tactical Damage and Outgoing Healing [+1-4%])

    Tier 3
    • (5) Lifting Words (Increased Words of Courage Healing [+3-15%])
    • (1) Gallant Display (Grants Skill Gallant Display)
    • (3) Rousing Cry (Rallying Cry with Defeat Event boosts Fellowship damage [+1-5%] for 1 min)

    Tier 4
    • (5) Astute Hands (Increased Tactical Critical Chance [+1-5%])
    • (3) Relentless Optimism (Increased AOE healing [+5-15%])
    • (1) Honourable Blow (Valiant Strike gives a 7s duration Incoming Healing buff [+4%] when used on target with Revealing Mark [Requires Revealing Mark Trait])

    Tier 5
    • (5) Standard of Honour (Grants Skill Standard of Honour. Ranks increase Standard damage [+4-20%] and Healing over Time [+5%-25%])
    • (1) Courageous Convocation (Muster Courage heals Captain)

    Tier 6
    • (3) Fellowship of the Song (Percentage of Shield-brother buffs apply to entire Fellowship [+20-60%])
    • (5) Rallying Roar (Adds power heal to Rallying Cry. Ranks increase morale heal [+2-10%])

    Tier 7
    • (1) Reform the Lines! (Grants Skill Reform the Lines!)

    Total Ranks: 51

    Lead the Charge

    Spec Bonuses

    • Grants Skill Shadow's Lament
    • Critical hits buff the damage of your next attack
    • Sure Strike procs Relentless Attack when used in a Battle-readied state


    Set Bonuses

    • Tier 1 (5 Ranks): Readied Blade (Shadow's Lament grants a Battle-readied state)
    • Tier 2 (10 Ranks): Cutting Edge (Adds +30% Critical Damage Multiplier for 7s to Cutting Attack)
    • Tier 3 (15 Ranks): Elendil's Favour (Blade of Elendil will boost the damage of the next Shadow's Lament by 20%)
    • Tier 4 (20 Ranks): Lacerate (If Cutting Attack is present on a mob, then using Grave Wound will spread the DoT to nearby foes. Additionally, +25% Bleed Damage)
    • Tier 5 (25 Ranks): Blade-brother's Call (Grants Skill Blade-Brother's Call)
    • Tier 6 (30 Ranks): Blessing of the Blade (Captain gains the full benefits of the Blade-brother skills and buffs)
    • Tier 7 (35 Ranks): Master of War (Critical Hits with Inspire or Shadow's Lament guarantee crits for the next melee or ranged skill used by the Captain or Blade-brother. Banner of War provides a stacking Critical Rating buff to nearby Fellowship members whenever they use a skill)


    Traits


    Tier 1
    • (3) React to Battle (Increased Damage of Devastating Blow, Pressing Attack, Light of Elendil and Routing Cry[+3-10%]. Rank 3 +5% Crit chance for these skills)
    • (3) Deafening Shouts (Increased Light Skill Damage [+2-6%])
    • (3) Martial Prowess (Increased Melee Damage [+1-3%])

    Tier 2
    • (5) Make Them Bleed (Increased Bleed Damage [+4-20%])
    • (3) Hardened Heart (Increased Melee Critical Damage [+10-30%])
    • (1) Telling Mark (Grants Skill Telling Mark)

    Tier 3
    • (3) Penetrating Cry (Routing Cry with Defeat Event boosts Fellowship Attack Speed [+5-15%] for 1 min)
    • (3) Arterial Strikes (Increased Melee Critical Chance [+1-3%])
    • (1) Time of Need (Grants Skill Time of Need)
    • (1) Advantageous Attack (Shadow's Lament does additional Light Damage on foes with Telling Mark [Requires Telling Mark Trait])

    Tier 4
    • (5) Grievous Wounds (Increased Grave Wound Damage [+2-10%]. Final rank adds -50% Incoming Healing debuff on enemy for 5s)
    • (4) Restraint (Reduced melee skill power cost [-4-12%])
    • (2) Heightened Allies (Heralds and Arches do additional damage [+20-40%])

    Tier 5
    • (3) Impactful Blows (Increased 2-hander damage [+2-6%])
    • (5) Standard of War (Grants Skill Standard of War. Ranks increase Standard damage [+4-20%] and damage buff [+2-10%])

    Tier 6
    • (3) Fellowship of the Blade (Percentage of Shield-brother buffs apply to entire Fellowship [+20-60%])
    • (2) Vital Stroke (Increased critical damage magnitude for Grave Wound [+25-50%]. Final ranks reduces cooldown by 5s)

    Tier 7
    • (1) Oathbreaker's Shame (Grants Skill Oathbreaker's Shame)

    Total Ranks: 51

    Leader of Men

    Spec Bonuses

    • Grants Skill Threatening Shout
    • Partial Blocks, Parries and Evades grant a Defeat Event
    • Sure Strike procs On Guard when used in a Battle-readied state


    Set Bonuses

    • Tier 1 (5 Ranks): Two-handed Prowess (Can block with a 2-hander. Additionally, +25% Max Morale)
    • Tier 2 (10 Ranks): Last Stand (Grants Skill Last Stand)
    • Tier 3 (15 Ranks): Elendil's Boon (Blade of Elendil will reduce the damage of the next incoming hit by 20%)
    • Tier 4 (20 Ranks): Defensive Strike (Adds an armour buff to Sure Strike. Additionally, +5% Parry)
    • Tier 5 (25 Ranks): Shield-brother's Call (Grants Skill Shield-Brother's Call)
    • Tier 6 (30 Ranks): Blessing of the Shield (Captain gains the full benefits of the Shield-brother skills and buffs)
    • Tier 7 (35 Ranks): Exemplar (When the Captain or Shield-brother are hit, both have a chance to be healed. Critical Hits against the Captain or Shield-brother reduce the active cooldown of Strength in Numbers by 1s and Shield of the Dúnedain by 2s)


    Traits


    Tier 1
    • (5) Situation Awareness (33% Chance to apply a 10s Evade buff [+1-5%] to Devastating Blow, Pressing Attack, Light of Elendil, and Routing Cry)
    • (4) Steeled Resolve (Increased morale [+1-4%])

    Tier 2
    • (5) Call Them Out (Increased Bleed Damage [+2-10%])
    • (1) Strong Voice (Threatening Shout affects 6 targets in a short radius)
    • (1) Noble Mark (Grants Skill Noble Mark)

    Tier 3
    • (3) Terrifying Below (Routing Cry stuns enemies when used with a Defeat Event. Ranks increase duration of stun [+1-3s])
    • (5) Shrug Blows Aside (Increased Critical Defence [+1-5%])
    • (3) In Harm's Way (Grants Skill In Harm's Way. Additional ranks decrease incoming damage while skill is active [-10-20%])
    • (1) Demand Attendion (Grave Wound becomes a force taunt)

    Tier 4
    • (5) Turning Point (Increased Incoming Healing with a Defeat Event [+1-5%])
    • (5) Absorb Momentum (Increased Block with a 2-hander [+1-5%])

    Tier 5
    • (5) Standard of Valour (Grants Skill Standard of Valour. Ranks increase Standard damage [+4-20%] and Incoming Healing buff [+2-10%])
    • (1) Strength in Numbers (Grants Skill Strength in Numbers)

    Tier 6
    • (3) Fellowship of the Shield (Percentage of Shield-brother buffs apply to entire Fellowship [+20-60%])
    • (3) Stand Tall (Being hit reduces the active cooldown of Last Stand [-1-3s])

    Tier 7
    • (1) Shield of the Dúnedain (Grants Skill Shield of the Dúnedain)

    Total Ranks: 51

    Legendary Item Legacy Changes

    With so many changes to skills and traits, roughly half of Captain legacies have been altered. These should automatically change to their new variants, so no one will be stuck with obsolete legacies.

    The major thing to note is that all cooldown legacies have been replaced. The reduction in cooldown has been applied to the base skill, so we haven't lost out on this. It has simply become standard. For example, Kick was previously on a 1 min cooldown, and the legacy used to reduce this by 30s. Now the skill is on a 30s cooldown by default for all Captains.

    Key: Old Legacy -> New Legacy.

    Major Weapon
    • To Arms Duration (Unaltered)
    • Kick Cooldown -> Melee Skills Critical Multiplier (9 Ranks, +1-15%)
    • Telling Mark Damage (Unaltered)
    • Devastating Blow Critical Rating -> Devastating Blow and Pressing Attack Critical Rating (9 Ranks, +752-816 at level 85 [First Age])
    • Pressing Attack Critical Rating -> Oathbreaker's Shame duration (9 Ranks, +1-10s)
    • Melee Skill Power Cost (Unaltered)
    • Pressing Attack Max Targets (Unaltered)
    • Morale from Motivating Speech -> Captain Area-effect Healing (9 Ranks, +1-15%)


    Minor Weapon
    • Cry Power Cost (Unaltered)
    • Tactics: On Guard Parry Rating -> Tactics Duration (+15s)
    • Tactics: Relentless Attack Critical Rating -> Inspire Damage (9 Ranks, +3-25%)
    • Routing Cry Damage (Unaltered)
    • Blade of Elendil Damage (Unaltered)
    • Cutting Attack Bleed Damage -> Bleed Damage (9 Ranks, +4-40%)
    • Defensive Strike Armour Buff (Unaltered)
    • Make Haste Duration (Unaltered)
    • Battle States and Defeat Response Duration (Unaltered)


    Major Class
    • Tactics: Focus ICPR -> Healing Critical Magnitude (9 Ranks, +15%)
    • Rallying Cry Healing (Unaltered)
    • Rallying Cry Cooldown -> Sure Strike Damage (9 Ranks, +25%)
    • Valiant Strike Morale Return (Unaltered)
    • Strength of Will Effects -> Noble Mark Damage (9 Ranks +7-50%)
    • Vocal Skills Healing (Unaltered)
    • Melee SKills Healing (Unaltered)
    • Words of Courage Power and Morale Cost (Unaltered)


    Minor Class
    • Words of Courage Pulses (Unaltered)
    • Time of Need Cooldown -> Last Stand Duration (9 Ranks, +1-10s)
    • Escape from Darkness Cooldown -> Bleed Pulses (9 Ranks, +1-9 pulses)
    • Muster Courage Cooldown -> Devastating Blow and Pressing Attack Damage (9 Ranks, +3-25%)
    • Time of Need Morale Cost -> Time of Need Buff Duration (9 Ranks, +1-10s)
    • Grave Wound Cooldown -> Light Skill Damage (9 Ranks, +3-25%)
    • Shield of the Dúnedain Cooldown -> Shield of the Dúnedain Duration (9 Ranks, +1-10s)
    • Shadow's Lament Cooldown -> Shadow's Lament Damage (9 Ranks, +1-15%)


    FAQ

    Q: What counts as Light Damage Skills?
    A: Battle-shout, Routing Cry, Standard of [War, Valour, Honour], Shadow's Lament, and Noble Mark. Additionally, the buff that periodically procs from Light of Elendil.

    Q: Why was War-cry removed?
    A: The skill was removed, but the functionality remains, albeit separated by line. In Hands of Healing, Rallying Cry provides the +5% Damage buff that Improved War-cry previously applied. In Lead the Charge, Routing Cry provides the +15% Attack Speed buff that War-cry previously applied. In Leader of Men, Routing Cry simply provides a stun.

    Q: Why was the Now For Wrath trait removed?
    A: The power restore added to Rallying Cry is now part of the Rallying Roar trait, found in tier 6 of Hands of Healing. The power heal only applies when Rallying Cry is used with a Defeat Event.

    Q: Why would the tanking Captain provide tanking buffs to others or the healing Captain provide healing buffs to others?
    A: To understand this, it is important to note that the buffs also apply to the Captain. The tier six passive set bonus of each line gives the Captain the full benefits of the Brother skills. Thus the tanking Captain will receive the tanking buffs he/she is giving others and the healing Captain will receive the healing buffs he/she is giving others. Likewise for the dps Captain in Lead the Charge. Most of the buffs provide some use to all classes.

    Q: With the threat changes, what's happening with Halberd passives?
    A: Halberds now have +2% Auto-attack Critical Hit Chance.

    Q: How do I tank with so few threat skills?
    A: Threat is being revamped. It is becoming a more passive element of gameplay, with tank builds naturally gaining more threat. The Leader of Men Captain should expect to produce +300% threat from each damaging skill. Forced taunts will utilise a threat catch-up system to push the tank beyond the person with the highest threat. For more on threat changes, see: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...g-Threat-in-HD

    Q: With Rallying Cry and Routing Cry usable in a weaker form without a Defeat Event, how will I know when their more powerful forms with a Defeat Event trigger?
    A: The skills flash when a Defeat Event is available. Additionally, a new contextual toolbar will open, displaying these two skills. You can either click on the skills on this bar, or just use it as a visual cue and press your normal hotkeys for the skills. The contextual toolbar can be moved.

    Q: Do Tactics buffs and Motivating Speech apply only to our current Fellowship?
    A: Yes, these only work inside a Fellowship. Tactics apply within a radius of 80m. The Motivating Speech aura applies within a radius of 20m, and this cannot be increased due to technical limitations.
    Last edited by Belnavar; Nov 06 2013 at 03:55 AM.
    Belnavar - Captain - 100 - Riddermark - The Guild / Keepers of the Palantiri

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Dublin, Ireland
    Posts
    1,577
    [reserving this post in case I run out space]

    -Bel
    Belnavar - Captain - 100 - Riddermark - The Guild / Keepers of the Palantiri

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    591
    Lots of differences, but am looking forward to all of this on live. Can't wait for launch!
    [CENTER][IMG]http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p241/Annatar_2007/signature_prayer_zpse71bebfe.jpg[/IMG]
    [COLOR=#0000cd][B]Eodread, Earendel, Isilmacil - Horizon[/B][/COLOR]
    [B][COLOR=#ff0000]Thattickles, Thangorodread - Table Smashers[/COLOR][/B]

    [/CENTER]

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    326
    Thats right:

    1. You are stuck with heralds. If you liked banners, tough.

    2. What buffs you can provide depend on your traitline, NOT the receiving person's role. Hunters dont want tactical mastery or parry rating? Too bad!

    3. Motivation is now a 20m aura. If your hunters like to stand further back, sorry, no max morale for you!

    I'm afraid with a few of these changes (the first two are particularly annoying), I'd be more likely to buy HD if it would STOP these changes. Sadly not.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Watertown, MA
    Posts
    2,903
    Yay, finally I don't have to be cagey as heck about this stuff any more.

    Ok, here's the bottom line: Things are different. But, overall, they're *better*. Don't look at the changes as a set of line items, take a moment to soak it all in and try to see the big picture.
    [b][SIZE=3][COLOR="#FFFFFF"]Cainwen Ciaphas[/COLOR][/SIZE][/b][COLOR="#C3C3C3"], Captain of Crickhollow, [url=http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Literature/CiaphasCain]HERO OF MIDDLE EARTH[/url]!!!
    [i]I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered![/i] My opinions are my own![/color]

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    155
    Quote Originally Posted by aardnebby View Post
    Thats right:

    1. You are stuck with heralds. If you liked banners, tough.

    2. What buffs you can provide depend on your traitline, NOT the receiving person's role. Hunters dont want tactical mastery or parry rating? Too bad!

    3. Motivation is now a 20m aura. If your hunters like to stand further back, sorry, no max morale for you!

    I'm afraid with a few of these changes (the first two are particularly annoying), I'd be more likely to buy HD if it would STOP these changes. Sadly not.

    You forgot:
    4. Brother skills are now meant to buff your role instead of your brother / group.

    Quote Originally Posted by furtim View Post
    Yay, finally I don't have to be cagey as heck about this stuff any more.

    Ok, here's the bottom line: Things are different. But, overall, they're *better*. Don't look at the changes as a set of line items, take a moment to soak it all in and try to see the big picture.
    Bottom line is different is not "better" in my opinion. If you're looking at the big picture and thinking things are better overall than on Live, then you're deluded. The big picture is that we've lost most of our multiple role viability. Sure we got a small increase in each role but overall we're less than what we were preHD. And as of Beta5 I'm not even confident we'll be decent tanks, so if it stays like that then we'll be down to 2 viable builds.
    Last edited by draconis-halberd7; Nov 04 2013 at 04:13 PM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    73
    i only can say : Thank you turbine for killing the role of the supporter.. thank you for killing this wonderful class. yet another reason not to buy HD. I am very disappointed about this changes. Sorry.
    [FONT=impact][SIZE=4][I]Palantorio Rochalor [SIZE=2][FONT=arial](bdl.bplaced.net)[/FONT][/SIZE][/I][/SIZE][/FONT]
    * Frag dich nicht, was deine Sippe für dich tun kann, frag dich was Du für die Sippe tun kannst.. *
    Anführer / Leader : Belegaer - Bewahrer des Lichts
    Leader : Landroval - Notenzauber
    [IMG]http://lux-hdro.de/generator.php/Palantorio/1/2/3/3/95/Bewahrer+des+Lichts/0/4/0/0/0/1/3/8/8/8/8/8/8.png[/IMG]

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Watertown, MA
    Posts
    2,903
    Whether it's better or worse depends largely on how myopic you are and how willing you are to accept change.
    [b][SIZE=3][COLOR="#FFFFFF"]Cainwen Ciaphas[/COLOR][/SIZE][/b][COLOR="#C3C3C3"], Captain of Crickhollow, [url=http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Literature/CiaphasCain]HERO OF MIDDLE EARTH[/url]!!!
    [i]I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered![/i] My opinions are my own![/color]

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    326
    Quote Originally Posted by furtim View Post
    Ok, here's the bottom line: Things are different. But, overall, they're *better*.
    That is very much a matter of opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by furtim View Post
    Don't look at the changes as a set of line items, take a moment to soak it all in and try to see the big picture.
    The big picture is this is basically a class re-write that has cost us more than most because of our former jack-of-all-trades class description, and paid back in dubious "benefits" such as in theory making us a maintank, but in reality giving us no real AoE aggro skills.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    326
    Quote Originally Posted by furtim View Post
    Whether it's better or worse depends largely on how myopic you are and how willing you are to accept change.
    *laughs* no.

    I can and have repeatedly given reasons I feel this change is a step backwards. I offered alternatives and suggestions for improvements, one or two of which were accepted, others of which were not. Overall the class is less fun to play for me.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    165
    I agree with aardnebby.
    Step back in my book, but heyho, not much can be done about it for those that do not like the changes.

    14 more days...

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Watertown, MA
    Posts
    2,903
    Belnavar, I just noticed the way that you highlighted all of the skills that are granted by traits. That's a pretty nice touch.
    [b][SIZE=3][COLOR="#FFFFFF"]Cainwen Ciaphas[/COLOR][/SIZE][/b][COLOR="#C3C3C3"], Captain of Crickhollow, [url=http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Literature/CiaphasCain]HERO OF MIDDLE EARTH[/url]!!!
    [i]I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered![/i] My opinions are my own![/color]

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Sunny SoCal, USA
    Posts
    6,266
    Captains are MUCH better in build 5 than they were in build 2, to the point that they are worth playing in build 5, and were not in build 2.

    They are not the same as they were, though. Traiting blue line is not nearly as viable as it once was, and the capstone is absolutely terrible.
    [CENTER][IMG]http://i40.tinypic.com/dgoqrr.jpg[/IMG]
    RIP ELENDILMIR • Jingle Jangle[B]
    Landroval[/B]: [SIZE=1]LAERLIN ([URL="http://tinyurl.com/laerlin"]Bio + Drawings[/URL]) • LAERWEN • OLORIEL • AETHELIND ([URL="http://tinyurl.com/aethelind"]Bio + Drawing[/URL]) • NETHAEL[/SIZE][/CENTER]
    [CENTER][URL="http://tinyurl.com/mnwbbbq"]Make LOTRO Housing Fun & Profitable![/URL] • [URL="http://tinyurl.com/m33b8be"]New Dye Color Suggestions![/URL][/CENTER]

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    326
    Quote Originally Posted by Laire View Post
    Captains are MUCH better in build 5 than they were in build 2, to the point that they are worth playing in build 5, and were not in build 2.

    They are not the same as they were, though. Traiting blue line is not nearly as viable as it once was, and the capstone is absolutely terrible.
    Have to agree at least in part to this. Each beta was an improvement on the last. But still not sure they are worth playing yet. Blue is indeed the hardest hit traitline (especially given it was our strongest on live IMHO).

    EG this:
    Song-brother's Call (Hands of Healing): While active, if the Captain or Song-brother crits, the other will receive a Tactical Mastery Rating buff. 1 min 30s cooldown

    Focus (Hands of Healing)
    -5% Attack Duration
    +3434 Tactical Mastery Rating
    +1% morale heal every 5s for 10s

    This emphasis on tactical mastery in blue line is utter madness. Apart from captains, the major tactical classes are Minstrels, Runekeepers and Loremasters. And 2 out of 3 of those classes are better healers than us, so why exactly are we traited blue line if one of them is present?

    This means in the majority of cases while we are blue traited, all those tactical mastery buffs are useless to the rest of the fellowship.

    A similar situation occurs in Yellow with tanks. Why exactly are we buffing hunters parry chance, and reducing damage for the rest of the group, when we are supposedly tanking? My personal theory is because we _cannot_ tank aoe, so it's for when the hunter inevitably pulls aggro off you and gets hit a lot. Not hugely encouraging eh?

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,864
    The class has indeed changed a lot.
    What I think will be the easiest way for people to get used to the new Captain is not focus on "I can't get skill X if I trait like this", but rather whether you can fulfill your role as healer, supporter, DPS or tank with a sensible trait setup.
    The reason for this is that, while you're pretty much unable to get e.g. Shield of the Dunedain or Oathbreakers Shame if you're HoH specialized, HoH now gives you more healing skills than before, higher healing critical chance than before and higher healing critical multiplier than before, which I think will be doing well to make up for the losses.

    One of the things RockX especially wanted to address was the rather massive healing you could do as a 5r2b Captain while still improving Fellowship DPS so much. I think most LtC Captains will experience a big cut in the amount of healing you do and also a bit less damage boost to your fellowship. However, and especially with some of the new legacies, you'll experience a good lot more DPS from yourself and your herald.

    Tanking has been one of the things I've not yet to been able to test very much because the Threat revamp has been quite buggy, but I think the trait tree looks very promising for LoM and with a high probability of being able to tank the scalable T2C raids.
    Last edited by Elrantiri; Nov 04 2013 at 05:09 PM.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    41
    The changes sound a lot like what I'm used to playing on my guardian in GW2, and I really really love my guardian. Buffs are applied based on your build, they must be used during the fight to cater to the situation, they're stronger, and my personal favorite...I don't have to spend 45 seconds re-buffing an entire raid after every wipe. Thank you turbine, for getting rid of that awful buffing system of *click nameplate*...*click tactic*. If you think that was a better way of buffing, then you deserve not to enjoy these changes.

    Whether you think these changes have killed the class is your own, but I am drooling over the Hands of Healing trait line and the attention it got (I love healing on my captain). I'll admit, not being able to use a hybrid of heal trait + shield brother + crit buffs in a raid will be tough to let go of, it was versatile and adaptable on the fly. Now we have to choose, but choosing is something most players can get over. The potency of each trait line has been dramatically increased, and in my opinion that more than compensates for the lack of versatility we get in combat. I can definitely see some very creative builds coming from these changes, as opposed to now, where most raiding captains generally want the same legacies and armor sets for the all-around performance build.

    At the end of the day, as a gamer I care about these changes, but as a Tolkien fan I give major kudos to Turbine for how much effort they put into the detail of this game. Hopefully when the hype dies down, and more players are able to test these trait lines and reveal just how much better they are, the negativity will subside. Whether you like these or not, they are happening, so why not get on the bright side of the fence and make the best of them.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    4
    Not super excited about these on reading, but will wait and see how they work in actual play.

    However, confused about one thing - Defensive Strike armor rating Legacy is still around, but Defensive Strike is removed?

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,864
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaderick View Post
    Not super excited about these on reading, but will wait and see how they work in actual play.

    However, confused about one thing - Defensive Strike armor rating Legacy is still around, but Defensive Strike is removed?
    LoM Sure Strike will be giving the armor buff instead. It will not be available for HoH and LtC Captains.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Dublin, Ireland
    Posts
    1,577
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaderick View Post
    However, confused about one thing - Defensive Strike armor rating Legacy is still around, but Defensive Strike is removed?
    Sure Strike applies the Defensive Strike buff when traited in LoM. The legacy should affect the buff from Sure Strike (I believe this is currently bugged, however).

    -Bel
    Belnavar - Captain - 100 - Riddermark - The Guild / Keepers of the Palantiri

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    326
    Quote Originally Posted by RohirrimRapsody View Post
    The changes sound a lot like what I'm used to playing on my guardian in GW2, and I really really love my guardian. Buffs are applied based on your build, they must be used during the fight to cater to the situation, they're stronger, and my personal favorite...I don't have to spend 45 seconds re-buffing an entire raid after every wipe. Thank you turbine, for getting rid of that awful buffing system of *click nameplate*...*click tactic*. If you think that was a better way of buffing, then you deserve not to enjoy these changes.
    Lol what? you can't actually cater, you just have whatever buffs your traitline allows. And the flexibility is what I miss

    Quote Originally Posted by RohirrimRapsody View Post
    Whether you think these changes have killed the class is your own, but I am drooling over the Hands of Healing trait line and the attention it got (I love healing on my captain). I'll admit, not being able to use a hybrid of heal trait + shield brother + crit buffs in a raid will be tough to let go of, it was versatile and adaptable on the fly. Now we have to choose, but choosing is something most players can get over. The potency of each trait line has been dramatically increased, and in my opinion that more than compensates for the lack of versatility we get in combat. I can definitely see some very creative builds coming from these changes, as opposed to now, where most raiding captains generally want the same legacies and armor sets for the all-around performance build.
    Lol get over choosing. Great line to use to people who want to enjoy themselves. Potency of each line is still arguable, as none of the balancing is finished. So your opinion is basically based on hype and not facts. And yes, we willl get 3 builds, red blue or yellow, with minor variations on where people spend their leftover points. Because buying out of line costs double.

    Quote Originally Posted by RohirrimRapsody View Post
    At the end of the day, as a gamer I care about these changes, but as a Tolkien fan I give major kudos to Turbine for how much effort they put into the detail of this game.
    This is irrelevant to the topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by RohirrimRapsody View Post
    Hopefully when the hype dies down, and more players are able to test these trait lines and reveal just how much better they are, the negativity will subside. Whether you like these or not, they are happening, so why not get on the bright side of the fence and make the best of them.
    This is based on the assumption they _are_ better. Something I would somewhat contest. Followed once again, by "your choice doesnt matter". Great selling there!

    Quote Originally Posted by Elrantiri View Post
    I think most LtC Captains will experience a big cut in the amount of healing you do and also a bit less damage boost to your fellowship. However, and especially with some of the new legacies, you'll experience a good lot more DPS from yourself and your herald.
    I haven't seen anything to bear this out yet, DPS is still in balancing stages.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elrantiri View Post
    Tanking has been one of the things I've not yet to been able to test very much because the Threat revamp has been quite buggy, but I think the trait tree looks very promising for LoM and with a high probability of being able to tank the scalable T2C raids.
    The aim was to make us raid capable tanks, but we are effectively single target only, and not as good as guardians/wardens on pure survivability. Which means you'll only see people using captain tanking for T2CM when they already have them on farm status just for the challenge. People who are actually having trouble with the content will take the best tanks they can get, which is not a captain.

    Oh, and see earlier points I raised about AoE aggro. If it involves tanking groups (say, Flight), good luck!
    Last edited by aardnebby; Nov 04 2013 at 05:55 PM.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    3
    I'll admit some of these changes look pretty cool but what sucks so much is losing the versatility of the class. I've already pre-ordered HD and will be giving it a shot and hoping for the best but it is sad to see what the captain is losing. The Captain is a support class not a healer, dps, or tank class. They aren't supposed to be great healers or great tanks or great dps'ers.. I would much rather be decent at all 3 roles at the same time rather than being good at just one of them. From a raiding perspective I'm losing like half the support skills and versatility i had. We will no longer be able to trait for healing, put blade brother on and buff dps, hit IHW + LS to save the group, throw OB, throw Sheild of the Dunedain to save the tank, hit time of need for a quick heal, etc all during one fight. Overall my hopes are not lost for the Captain.. it will be a big change and something we will have to get used to but it is sad to wave bye-bye to our versatility.
    Last edited by Belegas; Nov 04 2013 at 05:53 PM.
    Belegas (Guard), Hulluin (Captain), Barefoot (Hunter), Belezap (RK), Missbelle (Champ), Hulleal (Minstrel), Sneakyhull (Burg), Smellybelly (Warden), Tarkeldar (LM).

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Watertown, MA
    Posts
    2,903
    Quote Originally Posted by Elrantiri View Post
    What I think will be the easiest way for people to get used to the new Captain is not focus on "I can't get skill X if I trait like this", but rather whether you can fulfill your role as healer, supporter, DPS or tank with a sensible trait setup.
    This is entirely true. It requires us to think more about what our group needs and what we can bring to the table to fill that, instead of just defaulting to the mathematically most efficient trait setup that outputs maximum healing at minimum loss of DPS.

    Tanking has been one of the things I've not yet to been able to test very much because the Threat revamp has been quite buggy, but I think the trait tree looks very promising for LoM and with a high probability of being able to tank the scalable T2C raids.
    Yeah. There are a couple of things that make tanking hard to test on Bullroarer, unfortunately. Not just for us but for all the tank classes. The threat changes were a little delayed in hitting the server, it's hard to get groups together without your Live server friends list and kinship, and it's difficult to choose the right content to test against, since so much stuff at level 85 is kind of a faceroll for raid-geared characters.

    I'm fairly confident that our survival skills are where they need to be. Strength in Numbers is a pretty huge heal, if you're standing with a full fellowship, and our mitigations are crazy high. We also get defeat events for daaaaaaaaays in LoM (Partial BPEs grant a Defeat Event), which feels really weird and twisted coming from Live. Even if it turns out not to be too great for PvE tanking, it's likely to be the go-to spec for the Moors.
    [b][SIZE=3][COLOR="#FFFFFF"]Cainwen Ciaphas[/COLOR][/SIZE][/b][COLOR="#C3C3C3"], Captain of Crickhollow, [url=http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Literature/CiaphasCain]HERO OF MIDDLE EARTH[/url]!!!
    [i]I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered![/i] My opinions are my own![/color]

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Rohan
    Posts
    876
    I am relatively at peace with the Captain trait changes, though our versatility definitely took a hit (I still miss my IHW/LS combo for healing). As others have said, we're in a FAR better position now in round 5, than we were early in beta. I think another pass at legacies with moving some between the weapon vs emblem pool (and perhaps a couple changes), and the class will be ready for live.
    Aethelbehrt ~ Captain of Landroval
    Haradwen ~ Warden of Landroval
    Zôraphel ~ Burglar of Landroval

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Hamburg, Germany
    Posts
    104
    Quote Originally Posted by Belegas View Post
    I'll admit some of these changes look pretty cool but what sucks so much is losing the versatility of the class. I've already pre-ordered HD and will be giving it a shot and hoping for the best but it is sad to see what the captain is losing. The Captain is a support class not a healer, dps, or tank class. They aren't supposed to be great healers or great tanks or great dps'ers.. I would much rather be decent at all 3 roles at the same time rather than being good at just one of them. From a raiding perspective I'm losing like half the support skills and versatility i had. We will no longer be able to trait for healing, put blade brother on and buff dps, hit IHW + LS to save the group, throw OB, throw Sheild of the Dunedain to save the tank, hit time of need for a quick heal, etc all during one fight. Overall my hopes are not lost for the Captain.. it will be a big change and something we will have to get used to but it is sad to wave bye-bye to our versatility.
    You are right, we have to decide now between defence and offence before a fight starts - we lost most of our ability to decide and react strategically what to do next because we are a bit trapped in our trait lines - but at least our offensive buffing potential is absolutely astonishing and most new skills are quite cool (gallant display, the banner skills) or extremely strong (parts of the yellow line).

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,864
    Quote Originally Posted by aardnebby View Post
    I haven't seen anything to bear this out yet, DPS is still in balancing stages.



    The aim was to make us raid capable tanks, but we are effectively single target only, and not as good as guardians/wardens on pure survivability. Which means you'll only see people using captain tanking for T2CM when they already have them on farm status just for the challenge. People who are actually having trouble with the content will take the best tanks they can get, which is not a captain.

    Oh, and see earlier points I raised about AoE aggro. If it involves tanking groups (say, Flight), good luck!
    You may want to focus on the word 'think', which I used in both sentences you quoted. There's still a good way to go before balancing and bugfixing is completed.

    As for being capable tanks it's not like we need that much, I think changing Pressing Attacks target legacy to "Aoe Skill targets" and make it affect Threatening Shout, Routing Cry and Pressing Attack will be enough to get us the AoE aggro we need.

 

 
Page 1 of 20 1 2 3 4 5 11 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload