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  1. #26
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    Honestly, at this point, all I care about is what they say they plan to do with pvp. We admittedly make up a somewhat small percentage of the community's population, so we're realistically never going to get the attention we want. That's all well and good and I've come to peace with that. However, I would like to know what the devs' intentions are with either evolving pvp in a way that rekindles interest (such as the once intended new region) or continuing to just make spot fixes every few updates.
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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDCass View Post
    Honestly, at this point, all I care about is what they say they plan to do with pvp. We admittedly make up a somewhat small percentage of the community's population, so we're realistically never going to get the attention .
    Ya exactly, the big wheels of Turbine keep moving, no small fry comments from us will do anything at all, unless proven otherwise.

  3. #28
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    yeah we got a bird and a tree and more lag guess we should be grateful....

  4. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Delmore View Post
    awesome thanks! I'm not overly familiar with solo..but I know another council member that is...and feel free to toss me some more specific ideas either on this thread or via PM so I can get a better idea on where to go with it
    Quote Originally Posted by Delmore View Post
    agreed. The mastery buffs looked good on paper but they swayed the moors too much. I don't know if removing them completely is best. But I would definitely agree that there needs to be a change with the outposts. I was looking at making PVP a bit more dynamic and fun. Have some ideas to that which are pvp and pve geared. Don't know when or if it would happen. But can always hope
    This isn't a point I specifically brought up, but yet I feel this has become one of the most pervasive sources of imbalance. The side with greater numbers often are able to flip the OPs, and camp them to ensure they retain the favor. This in-turn makes their defending of them easier, as well as the pendulum of balance skew much too far to one side. Rather than completely remove them, something that has been a common theme and one not likely to be instated. A factor of diminishing returns would be much more received by both sides. Perhaps if the value of the buff for the first OP held would remain intact, the second and subsequent OPs would see the value of the buff diminish per OP held. This would create some action at OPs, allow buffs, and prevent MASSIVE sways in balance.

    Outside of OPs, other sources of solo imbalance lay within the classes themselves. Skills that are specifically designed for PVE have very large ramifications in PVP balance. I remember Turbine once changing skills that were deemed "unfit" for pvp by using the Monster Play buff to alter skills. This concept should again be reinstated to help create class balance. You can't change how someone wants to trait in the moors (i.e. Shield Wardens or Glory Champs), but you can determine the effectiveness of certain skills. Skills such as RK's Armor of Storm bypass the Stun Immunity and can completely disable a melee target for 20s, if perhaps the first stun occurred then invoked the 10s stun immunity and allowed another single stun upon the immunity expiring, this skill would not be seen as severely imbalanced. Yet this is not how this skill functions and creates a very one-sided fight between a melee MP and an RK. I could continue on about various skills and how they seem to function improperly, but much of this will become moot when HD changes how some skills function. The real fact behind this example is there are very few ways for monster players to counter skills of this nature. Skills such as this, or the multitude of other bubbles, full heals, crit multipliers force the hands of monster players with little recourse.

    The availability of instant, in-combat buffs to one side, while not the other is also a large source of imbalance. Hunters have focus pots, champs fury pots, Rks enamels, and so on, which can be bought with in-game gold (not commendations) and used in monster play. These not only provide instant access to many DPS skills many also provide + crit/dev magnitude increases. If perhaps monster players had access to similar potions, purchased with commendations, this could provide a more dynamic experience. These potions could be quite simple, catering to DPS, Healing, or support classes, or made specifically for each class.

    Any semblance of solo balance as of late is more a factor of players "self-nerfing" rather than game mechanics. There are certain match-ups that are so imbalanced, often players avoid them at all cost. When I played freepside I played a warden. Like many Wardens I started with shield traits not realizing the broken crit-immunity bonus that was attached to that trait line. (This is another possible moot point with the release of HD, but has become a source of much anger/frustration within the moors.) Once I realized how this affected gameplay I transitioned to Spear traits and realized how much more engaging monster play was. Yet, I still found more challenge in finding the appropriate level of "self-nerfing" to be competitive and balanced than how to counter each monster play class. The Warden class typifies how overpowered free people classes can be vs your typical rank 6-9 MP class. I was forced to strip the class down to a barely functional dps rotation, to find balance. I knew going into almost every single fight in open pvp that I would/could walk away with renown. Many free people classes function with this same mentality. A mini in WS can do massive crit damage while staying at full health after 40k damage vs a solo dps monster class. Matchups such as this rely solely on one side to CREATE balance, rather than the game mechanics allowing balance. A LM can stack 3 water lores chain different CC enough to keep a class locked down, unable to counter while their stun pots are on CD and then crit Ents for half the morale of certain classes. On the other end of balance an average hunter, with minimal CD skills, can be devoured by a high-rank warg (considered the lowliest monster class) in seconds. Finding a matchup between two classes that completely depends on skill of the player, rather than the "I WIN" skills available to the classes, the amount a class can heal themselves, or the number of bubbles they have is non-existant.

    The fact these matchups do not exist outside of groups/raids is very discouraging for those who enjoy the solo open-pvp style. As a warg I often rely on callouts to defeat a solo minstrel known for "spam healing". I must completely ignore Wardens who are traited shield since a lot of my dps is gated through a crit-response that can't occur but once every 7 seconds. The concept that one class can not compete with another simply due to a broken mechanic is wrong. These kind of matchups are examples of where the pendulum is too far to one side. When you factor in an imbalance with OPs which may be to the overpowered sides favor, you have players who are able to one-shot creeps or easily hit a full audacity creep for 9k with a single skill (epic conclusions).

    If you tried to balance all creep classes with a warden, classes like hunter would be out on the street. If you gave all creep classes the ability to counter a single overpowered skill, it could create unfair matchups with others. I think the best way to create balance is evaluate certain skills and use the Monster Play buff to create a more balanced function. Most of the other points I made have been address much more effectively by others than I feel like doing myself.
    ~Anaxander R9 Warden, Baranthor R5 Hunter, Skartan R2 Guardian~ Elendilmir
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  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by lionoil View Post
    @Yicky.
    I want you to ask them directly about this.
    When they release notes saying 'class X' getting 'skill A.' Then members of the community talk about it, then 'skill A' is never implemented. I want you to ask them what factors made them change.

    Questions
    1)What requirements are factored into getting something altered? There MUST BE factors, so what are they, I want you to find out.

    2)Community out cry is NOT the only factor, if it was, we'd have a new Moors map already, true? So please remember that. What OTHER factors do they consider.

    3) Which factors are most valued.

    P.S - I expect a reply on all 3 questions.

    Well I will say this...I will gladly ask...The answer...well I cannot say I will get the one you want. Yes there are factors...each factor to each situation? Well that is a lot of information that may or may not be given. I personally think it is just as important to focus on what is coming vs what has happened.

    I can tell you there were factors(and still are factors) regarding the new map...If Sapience wants to go into detail on that, he can. Otherwise I will see if I can divulge some info for you in the next couple weeks

    Yicky(R13) Weaver - Now Arkenstone{LOTRO Player Council member 3 years}
    The Witch Kings Seventh Legion
    Bubblez - Defiler
    The Black Appendage of Sauron - Leader
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  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delmore View Post
    Well I will say this...I will gladly ask...The answer...well I cannot say I will get the one you want.
    Im not expecting they will tell you everything, but I expect you will ask and hear what they say, then relay their reply. Please try ask in the same manner I have.

  7. #32
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    The problem as its always been is creeps have no progession. They just get skills they cant change stats it like playing ranger or troll ur just stuck with set stats u cant get better weapons or armor or legendaries thats why there will always be imbalance. That was a huge screw up at launch.

    Still cant believe u dont get xp in the moors like gw2 for taking keeps.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by DHargrave View Post
    The problem as its always been is creeps have no progession. They just get skills they cant change stats it like playing ranger or troll ur just stuck with set stats u cant get better weapons or armor or legendaries thats why there will always be imbalance. That was a huge screw up at launch.

    Still cant believe u dont get xp in the moors like gw2 for taking keeps.

    Yeah freeps over the years have had multiple overhauls making them more and more complex. Whereas creeps are still the basic creation based off of NPCs. Eventually I would really like to see creeps removed from the NPC basis and re-created into complex and dynamic toons

    Yicky(R13) Weaver - Now Arkenstone{LOTRO Player Council member 3 years}
    The Witch Kings Seventh Legion
    Bubblez - Defiler
    The Black Appendage of Sauron - Leader
    Orenia | Shaxell: Misadventurers Kinship - Arkenstone

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delmore View Post
    Yeah freeps over the years have had multiple overhauls making them more and more complex. Whereas creeps are still the basic creation based off of NPCs. Eventually I would really like to see creeps removed from the NPC basis and re-created into complex and dynamic toons
    I know I am cross-servering here right now .. But I have to say I am in such Agreement with the note above that I had to say something.

    I would love more than anything, to see CREEPs get a complete overhaul into the ACTUAL Characters we have become (yes - I CREEP in the Moors).

    Please everyone on E .. be proud of Yicky.
    There is much to be proud of.

    Ravn


    and, I am also a council member
    When in Danger, When in Doubt, Run in Circles, Scream & Shout

  10. #35
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    Ive brought that issue up years ago lol and they didnt like it. Heres a good example lets say a hunter and BA both have the same identical skills niether has an advantage so with the exception of legendaries/armor that would be the closest you would get until creeps got armor/legendaries. Now how many people do you think would still play and how many would rage quit lol.

    The only other issue is creeps need a rk/warden classes added with identical skills.

  11. #36
    I'd bet that turbine is in this competly for the money at this stage of the game.

    Put it as dollars and cents. More traits and skills available at higher ranks means more dollars and cents. Making the experience more fun for a longer time means more dollars and more cents.

    They already made creepside the side of manditory alts so if they add more useable skills, traits and racials they could double or even triple the amount of money they get out of each player. What if they added a pvp zone, and the only people who could go there were people who bought it? Or even make it a VIP zone.

    All they need is a product, I already bought the last one, where is the new shiny stuff for me to waste my money on???

    Now is the time for them to go big or go home, the next gen consoles are on the way, I'm assuming based on turbines track record they will go home.
    Garamburn
    burtnakh of Elendilmir"Freeps I hate you all, your very presence in the Moors sickens me."

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by searingskitso View Post

    Now is the time for them to go big or go home, the next gen consoles are on the way, I'm assuming based on turbines track record they will go home.
    Wouldn't be surprised if you're right but I sure hope you are wrong in that prediction.
    A cosmos without the Doctor scarcely bears thinking about- The Master

  13. #38
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    hey Yicky I know when you first got on the council you proposed some of my idea's, just wanted to let you know that I still do check in from time to time and if you have an idea you'd like to bounce off me feel free .
    -Azsouth the Hand of Doom of Elendilmir, Rank 15 Warg
    Originator of the 1st Good 1v1 Thread (Meneldor)

  14. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by RavnDottir View Post
    I know I am cross-servering here right now .. But I have to say I am in such Agreement with the note above that I had to say something.

    I would love more than anything, to see CREEPs get a complete overhaul into the ACTUAL Characters we have become (yes - I CREEP in the Moors).

    Please everyone on E .. be proud of Yicky.
    There is much to be proud of.

    Ravn


    and, I am also a council member
    Rest assured E is very proud of Mr. Yicky. It's been tough on our server having him absent, selflessly working for the good of all instead of engaging in our nightly mindless slaughter in the moors.

    As to the point about creeps being actual toons, please note that this needs to have some restraint. The entire reason I creep instead of freep is because grind & pve farming makes me barf. The greatest joy about creep is being able to hop on and kill stuff without having to worry about deconning some #### to get other #### to move other #### from this bag to that bag.

    So added complexity to creeps? Of course in favor. But as to becoming as "real" as freep toons, no. Please keep us as maggots whose purpose is to die for Sauron, not grind for items & festival tokens.
    Sniz(defiler) / Johanson(cappy)

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by RavnDottir View Post
    I know I am cross-servering here right now .. But I have to say I am in such Agreement with the note above that I had to say something.

    I would love more than anything, to see CREEPs get a complete overhaul into the ACTUAL Characters we have become (yes - I CREEP in the Moors).

    Please everyone on E .. be proud of Yicky.
    There is much to be proud of.

    Ravn


    and, I am also a council member
    Thanks Ravn

    yes it has been fun and not so fun with many more stuff to come lol. The gloves have come off a couple times lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by DHargrave View Post
    Ive brought that issue up years ago lol and they didnt like it. Heres a good example lets say a hunter and BA both have the same identical skills niether has an advantage so with the exception of legendaries/armor that would be the closest you would get until creeps got armor/legendaries. Now how many people do you think would still play and how many would rage quit lol.

    The only other issue is creeps need a rk/warden classes added with identical skills.
    I don't think making skills identical or mirroring classes would be the best route. Look at The Old Republic. Where SWTOR has some strong pvp...the mirrors can create some issues as well. I don't even know if creeps need legendaries. One of my concerns would be, if creeps start getting legendaries and gear, they have to get a way to obtain them, and level them. The moors just does not have strong enough content to warrant this or make it enjoyable without a complete grind sink 2.0.
    I will say I DO have some ideas and some ideas have been presented recently that Turbine will HOPEFULLY look at deeper. For not just classes but possibly making the moors and PVP more dynamic and enjoyable. Might work, might not but I am going to bat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rohan1240 View Post
    hey Yicky I know when you first got on the council you proposed some of my idea's, just wanted to let you know that I still do check in from time to time and if you have an idea you'd like to bounce off me feel free .
    Thanks Az. I will say this (and hopefully not get in trouble) PVP is something that is talked about very often on the council

    Quote Originally Posted by Sniz View Post
    Rest assured E is very proud of Mr. Yicky. It's been tough on our server having him absent, selflessly working for the good of all instead of engaging in our nightly mindless slaughter in the moors.

    As to the point about creeps being actual toons, please note that this needs to have some restraint. The entire reason I creep instead of freep is because grind & pve farming makes me barf. The greatest joy about creep is being able to hop on and kill stuff without having to worry about deconning some #### to get other #### to move other #### from this bag to that bag.

    So added complexity to creeps? Of course in favor. But as to becoming as "real" as freep toons, no. Please keep us as maggots whose purpose is to die for Sauron, not grind for items & festival tokens.
    aww thanks Snizy

    agreed. Overhauling a class that is more basic than the majority of toons on any MMO game is very dangerous and needs to be thought out very carefully. I think a legendary grind in its current implementation would be horrid for creepside. I would love to see what PVE there is in the moors become more dynamic and enjoyable as opposed to...oh I need map stuff. The map grind in it's current form is already horrid. And at this time I will say any major changes are probably a bit down the road and wont be a tomorrow thing. But there is a lot of room for growth with PVP and hopefully it is something that will be brought back to the light.

    Yicky(R13) Weaver - Now Arkenstone{LOTRO Player Council member 3 years}
    The Witch Kings Seventh Legion
    Bubblez - Defiler
    The Black Appendage of Sauron - Leader
    Orenia | Shaxell: Misadventurers Kinship - Arkenstone

  16. #41
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    Dont get me started on swtor lmao. Heres the thing if turbine wants the majority of its pvp base back that left they need to do the following to be able to evenbe considered to compete at all.

    Make freepside free to go to the moors or offer a 1 time pass to buy. They want people to pay a sub to go the moors but they abandon the moors and improve the lag do oddball stuff take doors off the keeps create buffs that cause inbalance and lag. Why would a freep want to pay a sub thats f2p to go the moors?

    Leveling in the moors = swtor gw2 all modern games let pvp'rs level through pvp not lotro? Lets get with the times here and modernize adapt. One of the main reasons myself and leon especially left was the grind got tiring. Pvp'rs dont want to spend thier time in pve land 24/7 gw2 and swtor other games understand this. Like i said its time to modernize and adapt

    Audacity - This is an incentive to not go to the moors. From what ive observed it makes life miserable for new people experiencing the moors and overall its a pointless mechanic that does more harm then good. Not sure what the point of this was in the first place really?

    Lag - This game more then any other game in history that ive played has the worst god aweful lag and somehow each xpace they improve it? I didnt see invisible horses and flying freeps in moria or see invisible castle walls and other wierd lag. This has been a 5 year issue the only time they adressed this was trw back in the day when you froze for 5 minutes there lol.

    helms deep should have been a pvp expansion instead its a 12 man skirmish? Talk about an opportunity missed here.

    I agree about making the moors dynamic. If they want to make the game more interesting let people use tokens to play as a cg or tyrant. How hard and fun would it be to take a keep if someone could play as the cg or tyrant? This would have been the only game that would have had that. Camelot unchained is going to have this be a key feature in the future.

    In order to be dynamic they need to think outside the box here and remove the cookie cutters and pve aspect out of the moors.

    So what does lotro have to offer and compete with other mmo's pvp at this point? gw2 like it or not removed a HUGE bulk of vets permanently from lotro. Lotro in comparison is behind the times here wouldnt you agree?


    Quote Originally Posted by Delmore View Post
    Thanks Ravn

    yes it has been fun and not so fun with many more stuff to come lol. The gloves have come off a couple times lol.



    I don't think making skills identical or mirroring classes would be the best route. Look at The Old Republic. Where SWTOR has some strong pvp...the mirrors can create some issues as well. I don't even know if creeps need legendaries. One of my concerns would be, if creeps start getting legendaries and gear, they have to get a way to obtain them, and level them. The moors just does not have strong enough content to warrant this or make it enjoyable without a complete grind sink 2.0.
    I will say I DO have some ideas and some ideas have been presented recently that Turbine will HOPEFULLY look at deeper. For not just classes but possibly making the moors and PVP more dynamic and enjoyable. Might work, might not but I am going to bat.



    Thanks Az. I will say this (and hopefully not get in trouble) PVP is something that is talked about very often on the council



    aww thanks Snizy

    agreed. Overhauling a class that is more basic than the majority of toons on any MMO game is very dangerous and needs to be thought out very carefully. I think a legendary grind in its current implementation would be horrid for creepside. I would love to see what PVE there is in the moors become more dynamic and enjoyable as opposed to...oh I need map stuff. The map grind in it's current form is already horrid. And at this time I will say any major changes are probably a bit down the road and wont be a tomorrow thing. But there is a lot of room for growth with PVP and hopefully it is something that will be brought back to the light.

  17. #42
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    I think LOTRO is the only game I've ever played that you couldn't level up through pvp...

    I actually like some of the moors armor- the SoS bonus on the mini moors set is pretty nice. Hope it stays, doubt I'm that lucky though. Would like to see some 95 level armor and weapons for the moors at some point though. Guess we will see them when turbine is ready.

    The invisible horse and walls are a recent thing for me, like since RoR. Lag has always been a problem :S. Not sure they can do a ton with straight lag but the keep and outpost walls- well I heard they finally fixed, haven't seen it in about two weeks.

    The devs will never focus anything solely on pvp. They toss the red headed step child a few crumbs, occasionally a moldy slice of pie, but scant attention is all it has ever received. It will be that way as long as the game is going.

    Using swtor as a template for this game in any fashion is a dumb, stupid, and utterly foolish idea. Pretty much anything Lucasfilm or Lucas touches these days withers away and dies. Maybe Mickey Mouse can save star wars.

    How is camelot unchained coming along Harg? I haven't seen much about it lately.
    A cosmos without the Doctor scarcely bears thinking about- The Master

  18. #43
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    from what i can see its coming along pretty good. Might be in beta in late 2015. Pretty interesting stuff you can create your own house from scratch bars and castles like minecraft but better. You can have shops like swg had back in the day. Its pure pvp mmo. Like i was saying their gonna have a delving type area with bosses you can play as. The kickstarter asked for a mill they got close to 3 mill in funding.

    http://camelotunchained.com/en/

    Quote Originally Posted by tkroll View Post
    I think LOTRO is the only game I've ever played that you couldn't level up through pvp...

    I actually like some of the moors armor- the SoS bonus on the mini moors set is pretty nice. Hope it stays, doubt I'm that lucky though. Would like to see some 95 level armor and weapons for the moors at some point though. Guess we will see them when turbine is ready.

    The invisible horse and walls are a recent thing for me, like since RoR. Lag has always been a problem :S. Not sure they can do a ton with straight lag but the keep and outpost walls- well I heard they finally fixed, haven't seen it in about two weeks.

    The devs will never focus anything solely on pvp. They toss the red headed step child a few crumbs, occasionally a moldy slice of pie, but scant attention is all it has ever received. It will be that way as long as the game is going.

    Using swtor as a template for this game in any fashion is a dumb, stupid, and utterly foolish idea. Pretty much anything Lucasfilm or Lucas touches these days withers away and dies. Maybe Mickey Mouse can save star wars.

    How is camelot unchained coming along Harg? I haven't seen much about it lately.

  19. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Delmore View Post
    Of course the people that have worked the council will help improve it. Why would they not want to get feedback about how the council has worked over the last months. I have plenty of feedback there. Good and bad



    Not sure how much I can say here...but I will say you are under the assumption that it is not being talked about. But jotted these down



    There is a reason for this...That I have witnessed first hand and taken. The blue names have cut back on forum interaction(especially on the pvp side) due to the fact that they get nothing but reamed on the forums. For each helpful post there are 10 posts that chastise and abuse the blue name as soon as they speak. I even hopped into a thread once and I got verbally pulverized to the point that Sapience had to stop me

    I cannot say that they will or will not post often anymore. When it comes to PVP, the community is the most outspoken and passionate in all of LOTRO. Unfortunately the filter regarding that is typically left at the door which causes the blue names to read...but not post.



    agreed. The mastery buffs looked good on paper but they swayed the moors too much. I don't know if removing them completely is best. But I would definitely agree that there needs to be a change with the outposts. I was looking at making PVP a bit more dynamic and fun. Have some ideas to that which are pvp and pve geared. Don't know when or if it would happen. But can always hope



    awesome thanks! I'm not overly familiar with solo..but I know another council member that is...and feel free to toss me some more specific ideas either on this thread or via PM so I can get a better idea on where to go with it




    Still looking forward to next week?
    you make good points about how blue names react to pvmp posts. But I guess a lot of people feel that with all the issues, their job that they get paid to do includes getting reamed for all the bugs. If you are screaming at a dev for gameplay you do not like then you are being unproductive. However, doing the same thing for a bug that has been around for years and countless updates, it is okay and the blue names need to nut up a little. So many issues on the forums between blue names and players could be solved with proper statements by Sapience or another blue name that diffuse situations. This whole map thing could be resolved over the long term with a paragraph apology saying there were just other things that needed to be done more or was prioritized over a map. Doesn't matter if that is true. That statement would rip the bandaid off and ppl might be pissed but in the long run it dies down. Devs are extremely talented at techy stuff but extremely limited in communication skills. Sapience does what he can, sometimes, to be the rage magnet. But a lot of issues could be solved with clear cut statements stating turbines or the dev staff's position. Instead, we often get vague statements or no comments and that just fuels the fire. Rip the band aid off blue names. Painful but it fades quickly. Not answering or ignoring complaints just results in people getting pissed off continuously.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0b20c000000149f75/01006/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  20. #45
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    Audacity
    One thing I've never quite understood is the audacity grind.
    It makes rolling a new freep/creep (more so creep) daunting and frankly is a very difficult task for those who have real life commitments.
    Solutions?
    - Creeps start at max. audacity
    - Freeps have moors exclusive armour (not useable in the PvE lands) no grind required, just a straight up barter that also gives max. audacity. (similar to a few other current MMO's).
    This way, a freep or creep can feel like they are playing on a more level field whilst still needing to grind weapons/jewls (freeps) and rank (creeps - see below).

    Skills
    I also think creeps should have all of their skills from rank 0.
    The reward for actual ranking to be more of a "toughness" or "strength" buff coupled with cosmetic rewards.

    My cruddy 2cents
    Formerly Sazh Frecklestache & Galuf Pronnstache


  21. #46
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Klamath Falls, Or
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanacor View Post
    Audacity
    One thing I've never quite understood is the audacity grind.
    It makes rolling a new freep/creep (more so creep) daunting and frankly is a very difficult task for those who have real life commitments.
    Solutions?
    - Creeps start at max. audacity
    - Freeps have moors exclusive armour (not useable in the PvE lands) no grind required, just a straight up barter that also gives max. audacity. (similar to a few other current MMO's).
    This way, a freep or creep can feel like they are playing on a more level field whilst still needing to grind weapons/jewls (freeps) and rank (creeps - see below).

    Skills
    I also think creeps should have all of their skills from rank 0.
    The reward for actual ranking to be more of a "toughness" or "strength" buff coupled with cosmetic rewards.

    My cruddy 2cents
    The only skill I really like and use on the moors armor is removal of wounds, poisons, etc when using SoS with the minstrel healing set. Although I would much rather acquire armor through the moors and comms than run BoE style instances a hundred times and get half of every jewel I need but never all of them. And BofE is quick dirty but gets old after a while. The moors seldom gets too old. With the level cap increase maybe boost the starting levels of audacity for both sides?

    I agree creeps should be able to get most skills at rank 0 through coms. Maybe limit some of the best ones to rank (but not all the way to max, seems like people quit once they hit max rank).
    A cosmos without the Doctor scarcely bears thinking about- The Master

  22. #47
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Chandler, AZ
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    3,438
    Quote Originally Posted by elvenwarlord619 View Post
    you make good points about how blue names react to pvmp posts. But I guess a lot of people feel that with all the issues, their job that they get paid to do includes getting reamed for all the bugs. If you are screaming at a dev for gameplay you do not like then you are being unproductive. However, doing the same thing for a bug that has been around for years and countless updates, it is okay and the blue names need to nut up a little. So many issues on the forums between blue names and players could be solved with proper statements by Sapience or another blue name that diffuse situations. This whole map thing could be resolved over the long term with a paragraph apology saying there were just other things that needed to be done more or was prioritized over a map. Doesn't matter if that is true. That statement would rip the bandaid off and ppl might be pissed but in the long run it dies down. Devs are extremely talented at techy stuff but extremely limited in communication skills. Sapience does what he can, sometimes, to be the rage magnet. But a lot of issues could be solved with clear cut statements stating turbines or the dev staff's position. Instead, we often get vague statements or no comments and that just fuels the fire. Rip the band aid off blue names. Painful but it fades quickly. Not answering or ignoring complaints just results in people getting pissed off continuously.
    Not really.(discussion I have had as well) It is not the Dev's job to get reamed. There is a proper and polite way to bring the issues forward..

    You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar

    This is true here as well. If you go into a retail store and you raise a fit because you didn't like the way something was handled, you get kicked out of the store. They aren't going to listen to you if you are screaming at them. But if you say that you have an issue, explain what it is and why, as well as thoughts(not demands) on how to fix it, you are more likely to get interaction.

    People will be pissed either way and it is a no win scenario. You can't please everyone, and with PVPers they all have their own mindset on what is right, wrong, good, bad, stupid, smart, etc.

    Until the community gets together and creates a positive dialogue(probably wont happen) we are not likely to see a lot of Blue name interaction into the public forum community

    Yicky(R13) Weaver - Now Arkenstone{LOTRO Player Council member 3 years}
    The Witch Kings Seventh Legion
    Bubblez - Defiler
    The Black Appendage of Sauron - Leader
    Orenia | Shaxell: Misadventurers Kinship - Arkenstone

  23. #48
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Oceanside,ca 92057
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    1,072
    Thats a 2 way street though. A good example is how they treated leon and banning his toon back then accusing him of buying $3000 in gold and not giving him a fair chance to defend himself or anything. It took him over a year before they realized Oh we screwed up on our part then they give him his toon back and threaten him again about THIER screw up.

    If you order a steak in a restaurant and they bring you a frozen steak and you complain they dont qoute coc to you and tell you to order another steak and pay for your frozen one on top of it.Then when you ask wth? its leave the restaraunt now!!

    Those devs/gm's could use some ethics training it aint always the customer.



    Quote Originally Posted by Delmore View Post
    Not really.(discussion I have had as well) It is not the Dev's job to get reamed. There is a proper and polite way to bring the issues forward..

    You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar

    This is true here as well. If you go into a retail store and you raise a fit because you didn't like the way something was handled, you get kicked out of the store. They aren't going to listen to you if you are screaming at them. But if you say that you have an issue, explain what it is and why, as well as thoughts(not demands) on how to fix it, you are more likely to get interaction.

    People will be pissed either way and it is a no win scenario. You can't please everyone, and with PVPers they all have their own mindset on what is right, wrong, good, bad, stupid, smart, etc.

    Until the community gets together and creates a positive dialogue(probably wont happen) we are not likely to see a lot of Blue name interaction into the public forum community

  24. #49
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Klamath Falls, Or
    Posts
    1,732
    Quote Originally Posted by DHargrave View Post
    Thats a 2 way street though. A good example is how they treated leon and banning his toon back then accusing him of buying $3000 in gold and not giving him a fair chance to defend himself or anything. It took him over a year before they realized Oh we screwed up on our part then they give him his toon back and threaten him again about THIER screw up.

    If you order a steak in a restaurant and they bring you a frozen steak and you complain they dont qoute coc to you and tell you to order another steak and pay for your frozen one on top of it.Then when you ask wth? its leave the restaraunt now!!

    Those devs/gm's could use some ethics training it aint always the customer.
    Heh you should have seen the fit some crazy lady threw in the tmobile store in La Mesa a few weeks ago- friggin Psycho. The staff politely and professionally threw her but out (somehow despite claiming to be disabled she was able to throw a massive fit, slam doors, cuss out every human in the store- maybe it was mental...lol)

    I've generally gotten very positive responses from gm and turbine in general when I ask for help. But then again I'm like Arthur Dent, mostly harmless. Pretty mild mannered most of the time, at least I like to think so anyway.
    A cosmos without the Doctor scarcely bears thinking about- The Master

  25. #50
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Chandler, AZ
    Posts
    3,438
    Quote Originally Posted by DHargrave View Post
    Thats a 2 way street though. A good example is how they treated leon and banning his toon back then accusing him of buying $3000 in gold and not giving him a fair chance to defend himself or anything. It took him over a year before they realized Oh we screwed up on our part then they give him his toon back and threaten him again about THIER screw up.

    If you order a steak in a restaurant and they bring you a frozen steak and you complain they dont qoute coc to you and tell you to order another steak and pay for your frozen one on top of it.Then when you ask wth? its leave the restaraunt now!!

    Those devs/gm's could use some ethics training it aint always the customer.
    It isn't always the customer, correct. I have seen posts where the GMs were in the wrong. But in this case, I would say they didn't give you a frozen steak. They gave you one you didn't like...so you sent it back...they did it again, you sent it back, they tried again, and you threw a fit because it is STILL how you don't like it...then when they said ok we are not going to make it again, you get pissed and throw a fit.

    PVPers are that customer. No one is happy anymore, so there is no reason to try to work with the many. instead they work with the few. Betas, Q&A, etc.

    I don't know the instance with Leon. So I can't comment on it. I have seen GMs do wrong things many times. But that does not affect PVP in general.

    Yicky(R13) Weaver - Now Arkenstone{LOTRO Player Council member 3 years}
    The Witch Kings Seventh Legion
    Bubblez - Defiler
    The Black Appendage of Sauron - Leader
    Orenia | Shaxell: Misadventurers Kinship - Arkenstone

 

 
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