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  1. #1

    Elven warden and some questions.

    Hi,

    I am considering rolling an elven warden. I have a guardian for some years now but I always felt he doesnt have the "right" class/race combo, lorewise. Wardens were developed upon elvish lore so I think I may enjoy them more. (I appreciate some toughs about it as well.)

    I have some questions that I'd like to hear from you, experienced wardens:
    1) I did some research about dps and seems that both guardians and wardens are close. True?
    2) Since I will roll an elf, I would like to stick with swords. I found that wardens have a 1-sword master training that gives +2% bonus damage and elves have the same racial bonus what means like 4% bonus while using 1-swords, that means my damage output with a warden using 1-sword will be slight higher than a guardian with the same weapon?
    3) Guardians have the OP stance wich increases their dps. Do wardens have anything close?


    Thanks a lot!
    Last edited by Rique76; Oct 23 2013 at 05:23 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
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    St Louis Mo
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    1,999
    Quote Originally Posted by Rique76 View Post
    Hi,

    I am considering rolling an elven warden. I have a guardian for some years now but I always felt he doesnt have the "right" class/race combo, lorewise. Wardens were developed upon elvish lore so I think I may enjoy them more. (I appreciate some toughs about it as well.)

    I have some questions that I'd like to hear from you, experienced wardens:
    1) I did some research about dps and seems that both guardians and wardens are close. True?
    2) Since I will roll an elf, I would like to stick with swords. I found that wardens have a 1-sword master training that gives +2% bonus damage and elves have the same racial bonus what means like 4% bonus while using 1-swords, that means my damage output with a warden using 1-sword will be slight higher than a guardian with the same weapon?
    3) Guardians have the OP stance wich increases their dps. Do wardens have anything close?


    Thanks a lot!
    This is my answer to all your questions.

    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...-November-18th

    Or this version.
    1. Depends on how traited.
    2. See 1 May change, who knows in a month.
    3. See 1. Yes, but that also looks like its changing in less than a month.

    Bottom line, dont waste your time learning a complicated class that is changing in a month.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Darlgon View Post
    This is my answer to all your questions.

    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...-November-18th

    Or this version.
    1. Depends on how traited.
    2. See 1 May change, who knows in a month.
    3. See 1. Yes, but that also looks like its changing in less than a month.

    Bottom line, dont waste your time learning a complicated class that is changing in a month.
    You sound quite unhappy with the class. I'd like to hear more people about it.

    I created a warden today and lvled him till lvl8. I found him very fun. About being "complicated", that is something totally personal I believe. I've been playing MMOs for 12 years now and didnt find anything complicate about wardens (the gambits are the most original things in ALL classes I tested here since 2008). If the class will change in a month, now this is different, but not to stop someone to start playing now. LOTRO is a MMO and classes are always changing and being balanced on MMOs.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,352
    I like playing my warden, but it is fair to say we don't know what it will be like in a month, since two stances are being merged, the third is getting changed, and available gambits may get changed as well.
    So, in regards to the first fellow that responded, I don't think they were trying to be rude, they are just referring to the fact that warden will be changed in a big way soon.

    In answer (at least somewhat) to your initial 3 questions:

    1) Guardians and Wardens can both gear and trait to be DPS; I don't know how they compare to each other, but it's quite possible they have similar DPS when aiming for it. For a player, it would be more a matter of which style of fighting they prefer, since you are playing a game after all.
    If you mean damage dealt while tanking, I am not sure how much damage matters when only part of your threat is from damage.

    2) To be honest, I am not sure you could notice a 4% difference since there are several random factors in damage calculation; even on one class your 'average' damage in a run can easily vary beyond 4% from another run of the same encounter. Also, I haven't parsed it in a while, but at least in the past the warden spear bleeds gave more of a damage increase than the 2% sword bonus from the racial boost. However, they are undoubtedly pretty close, so it is purely personal preference which to use. I personally like the look of a spear on my elf warden, my (also elf) champ can be the sword wielder of the family.
    Oh, and not all of a guardian or warden's damage is based on the weapon DPS in any case. In answer to the original question, I don't know if guardian and warden DPS is exact enough in any case for 4% to make any difference, especially since wardens already have 2% of that from class boost, and guardians may have a racial weapon damage boost of their own.

    3) Wardens currently have 4 stances, 5 if you count not having a stance set. Gambit effects are set according to which stance you are in, and no stance tends to just lack any good effects, so is not recommended. Way of the Warden is a gimp legendary stance, and matches gambit effects with one of the proper stances - I forget if it copies determination or recklessness. Determination is the tanking stance, and has the most self heals and self buffs.
    The two remaining stances are both DPS stances - recklessness for melee, and assailment for ranged. Assailment seems to be pretty popular in the moors, because it's a lot easier to hit targets running around, especially with various aoe slow effects and such tossed around. The stances themselves don't increase DPS by as much as Overpower does, but make up for it with additional damage from gambit effects. However, once HD comes, recklessness and determination are being merged into a 'melee' stance, with effects based on traiting to determine whether you self-heal or do more damage. Assailment will still be around as a ranged stance, but from the dev diary it sounds like its effects are getting changed, with new debuffs added (which implies some existing effects may be taken away in trade, but they didn't say what - I won't miss the lame 2% groupwide buffs we have now though).


    In short: Because of the changes coming, we don't know how 1) will be in a month, 2) There isn't much difference between the weapons so use what you want, and 3) recklessness and assailment (and maybe way of the gimp) are DPS stances now, but it will depend more on traits than stance in HD.

    I hope this sufficiently answers your questions.
    Gremblus, Seuer, Grelob, and various others of Arkenstone

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Gremus View Post
    I like playing my warden, but it is fair to say we don't know what it will be like in a month, since two stances are being merged, the third is getting changed, and available gambits may get changed as well.
    So, in regards to the first fellow that responded, I don't think they were trying to be rude, they are just referring to the fact that warden will be changed in a big way soon.

    In answer (at least somewhat) to your initial 3 questions:

    1) Guardians and Wardens can both gear and trait to be DPS; I don't know how they compare to each other, but it's quite possible they have similar DPS when aiming for it. For a player, it would be more a matter of which style of fighting they prefer, since you are playing a game after all.
    If you mean damage dealt while tanking, I am not sure how much damage matters when only part of your threat is from damage.

    2) To be honest, I am not sure you could notice a 4% difference since there are several random factors in damage calculation; even on one class your 'average' damage in a run can easily vary beyond 4% from another run of the same encounter. Also, I haven't parsed it in a while, but at least in the past the warden spear bleeds gave more of a damage increase than the 2% sword bonus from the racial boost. However, they are undoubtedly pretty close, so it is purely personal preference which to use. I personally like the look of a spear on my elf warden, my (also elf) champ can be the sword wielder of the family.
    Oh, and not all of a guardian or warden's damage is based on the weapon DPS in any case. In answer to the original question, I don't know if guardian and warden DPS is exact enough in any case for 4% to make any difference, especially since wardens already have 2% of that from class boost, and guardians may have a racial weapon damage boost of their own.

    3) Wardens currently have 4 stances, 5 if you count not having a stance set. Gambit effects are set according to which stance you are in, and no stance tends to just lack any good effects, so is not recommended. Way of the Warden is a gimp legendary stance, and matches gambit effects with one of the proper stances - I forget if it copies determination or recklessness. Determination is the tanking stance, and has the most self heals and self buffs.
    The two remaining stances are both DPS stances - recklessness for melee, and assailment for ranged. Assailment seems to be pretty popular in the moors, because it's a lot easier to hit targets running around, especially with various aoe slow effects and such tossed around. The stances themselves don't increase DPS by as much as Overpower does, but make up for it with additional damage from gambit effects. However, once HD comes, recklessness and determination are being merged into a 'melee' stance, with effects based on traiting to determine whether you self-heal or do more damage. Assailment will still be around as a ranged stance, but from the dev diary it sounds like its effects are getting changed, with new debuffs added (which implies some existing effects may be taken away in trade, but they didn't say what - I won't miss the lame 2% groupwide buffs we have now though).


    In short: Because of the changes coming, we don't know how 1) will be in a month, 2) There isn't much difference between the weapons so use what you want, and 3) recklessness and assailment (and maybe way of the gimp) are DPS stances now, but it will depend more on traits than stance in HD.

    I hope this sufficiently answers your questions.
    Thank you very much for your vast feedback, Gremus. I rolled a warden earlier today while waiting for someone answer my questions and I really liked the class. The gambit factor is very, very refrishing because I often quite LOTRO since 2008 thanks to the gameplay (although I love the game so I keep coming back). Funny thing is that I never tried be a warden before and this is much more close to the gameplay I like, more action oriented and the gambits are like combos. All in all, the combat is more exciting than just play rotations.

    Regarding the previous answer, the guy was not very... polite... answering another question of mine in another thread as well. Its ok, I know how changings usually bother people and he seems to be pretty upset with the next update. But yeah, he was kinda rude and didnt answer at all what I asked, his point was more like come here and complain about changes and point that discuss this is irrelevant now. The thing is, the class will change in 2, 3 weeks? Yeah, but will I be alive till there? Heck, I dont know. I dont even know if I will still be playing anything till there. What matters is the game now for me and that is what I want to discuss now too. What comes next will be dealt in the future.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,352
    Quote Originally Posted by Rique76 View Post
    Thank you very much for your vast feedback, Gremus. I rolled a warden earlier today while waiting for someone answer my questions and I really liked the class. The gambit factor is very, very refrishing because I often quite LOTRO since 2008 thanks to the gameplay (although I love the game so I keep coming back). Funny thing is that I never tried be a warden before and this is much more close to the gameplay I like, more action oriented and the gambits are like combos. All in all, the combat is more exciting than just play rotations.

    Regarding the previous answer, the guy was not very... polite... answering another question of mine in another thread as well. Its ok, I know how changings usually bother people and he seems to be pretty upset with the next update. But yeah, he was kinda rude and didnt answer at all what I asked, his point was more like come here and complain about changes and point that discuss this is irrelevant now. The thing is, the class will change in 2, 3 weeks? Yeah, but will I be alive till there? Heck, I dont know. I dont even know if I will still be playing anything till there. What matters is the game now for me and that is what I want to discuss now too. What comes next will be dealt in the future.

    I am glad you enjoy it and I hope you continue to enjoy the class! Yes, the gambits are rather like combos. Thankfully, while there are a lot of them they tend to fit into repeating patterns. The tricky part is when you get masteries; you have more options available for how to build gambits, which can be tricky to consider optimizing especially if you are trying to adapt to a changing situation instead of repeating a set rotation.

    It's pretty easy to be upset by the changes, especially when given fairly vague details; for my part, the dev dairies make it look like I'll be finally shelving my captain after ...6 and a half years?... but the new assailment warden changes look like it could be interesting. Tanking is a bit harder to say, but then I prefer tanking style with my guardian anyway, so for me it's a moot point.

    On an unrelated note - since you are going with elf, you might find it interesting that you can instant-fire Ambush from elf-stealth. Call it an added bonus if you will.
    Gremblus, Seuer, Grelob, and various others of Arkenstone

 

 

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