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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Buckinghamshire, England
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    121

    Turbine, please stop referring to Autumn as Fall

    Tolkien use the term 'the Fall' to refer to the fall of man.
    The word used by Tolkien was Autumn and you have always said this game is in English, not American English.

  2. #2
    Why Autumn? No one can spell that word literally. I propose that they call it 'Herbst' instead. Oh, I forgot, Boston is not in Germany. Maybe we should stay with Fall.


    Greetings, Polymachos

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khazneh1 View Post
    Tolkien use the term 'the Fall' to refer to the fall of man.
    The Fall of Man =/= The Season called Fall

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    In English there isn't a season called Fall, the word Autumn has been used for about 500 years.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Khazneh1 View Post
    In English there isn't a season called Fall, the word Autumn has been used for about 500 years.
    hmm...from oxford english dictionary:

    5 (also Fall) North American autumn: that fall Roosevelt was elected to his first term

    from meriam webster:

    3fall
    adjective
    Definition of FALL
    : of, relating to, or suitable for autumn <a new fall coat>
    First Known Use of FALL
    1677

    could name many many more but there are really too many to point out. while they are not the 'main' definitions of the word, using 'fall' to refer to autumn is still accepted today. not sure why this really matters so much but....there you go. LOL

    i think it depends on where you grew/grow up. where i was we always used winter spring summer fall....never winter spring summer autumn....

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by goldensilence View Post
    hmm...from oxford english dictionary:

    5 (also Fall) North American autumn: that fall Roosevelt was elected to his first term

    from meriam webster:

    3fall
    adjective
    Definition of FALL
    : of, relating to, or suitable for autumn <a new fall coat>
    First Known Use of FALL
    1677

    could name many many more but there are really too many to point out. while they are not the 'main' definitions of the word, using 'fall' to refer to autumn is still accepted today. not sure why this really matters so much but....there you go. LOL
    That answers it there, Tolkien was British, not north american, the use of north american terms is wrong for anything to do with lord of the rings, if lord of the rings had elevators they'd be called lifts, pants would be trousers, etc etc.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    This steed in-game is called, Autumnfest Horse

    Seems like they do call it Autumn

    http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m...psefc98dac.png

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    14,032
    One of the months in the Elvish calendar was called Lassi-lanta, "Leaf-fall."

    And from a poem by Millay, describing a southern woman who married and went to live in the north:

    "You were troubled and came to me because the farmer
    Called the autumn 'the fall';
    You thought a country where the lavender died in the winter
    Was not a country at all."

    I'll point out also that "autumn" is from Latin, and "fall" is English. Tolkien may have been in the habit
    of saying "autumn," but I seriously doubt he would object to "fall."
    Eruanne - Shards of Narsil-1 - Elendilmir -> Arkenstone

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Buckinghamshire, England
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    121
    So if they use the word Autumn in the game, why send us emails saying "celebrate Fall"?
    The word Fall to mean the season is only considered to be North American English, it has not been used in that context in UK English for over 400 years. LOTRO is supposed to be following UK English as Tolkien did.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Khazneh1 View Post
    So if they use the word Autumn in the game, why send us emails saying "celebrate Fall"?
    The word Fall to mean the season is only considered to be North American English, it has not been used in that context in UK English for over 400 years. LOTRO is supposed to be following UK English as Tolkien did.
    The problem is that most of the people that work for Turbine are Americans. Te American third season is Fall. It is only going to be the British folks working for Turbine and the Tolkien lore fanatics that think of it as Autumn.

    In game content is all going to be passed to a Tolkien Lore checker to make sure the right words are being used. Even with the Lore checkers hard at work some distinctly American expressions end up in game. Have to be reported via the Bug system. Fixed months done the road.
    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  11. #11
    There are bigger problems with those American words than a classic British word that went of style!

    Black bears!
    Elk being used to describe new animals!!
    Saerdan staying in an Irish-American frontiersman's cabin!!!

    Moose!!!!

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Khazneh1 View Post
    Tolkien use the term 'the Fall' to refer to the fall of man.
    The word used by Tolkien was Autumn and you have always said this game is in English, not American English.
    Oh for petes sake lets nit pick some more...

  13. #13
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    Jun 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eartholloth View Post
    Oh for petes sake lets nit pick some more...
    The use of American colloquialisms spoils the game for some of us.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    Sweden
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    "Armour." may as well use Autumn.

    However, half of the gamers will just wonder why there's a Narnia reference thrown in.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Khazneh1 View Post
    The use of American colloquialisms spoils the game for some of us.
    no offense but seriously??? American colloquialisms spoil the game for you? LOL

    again, no offense intended but while something like that might 'perturb' me (in the lowest possible sense of the word), it in no way would spoil the game for me. seriously, there are much bigger issues out there that deserve attention than colloquialisms.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    1,880
    IF we would really care, the word would be in Westron, Sindarin or Quenya.

    One of the major traditions during fall festival in my homestead in Breeland is to hunt for trolls in disguise. There are even prices for those who manage to throw fish at them.
    Preferrably red herrings.

  17. #17
    While we're at it, can we also lose all the Hallowe'en stuff. Hallowe'en = All Hallows Eve, the day before All Saints Day, specifically Christian, and as lore-breaking as it gets. It's bad enough that we've had the cultural imperialism that is the overweening trick or treat wrecking the last day of October for lots of us (for ease of comprehension, the British adolescent understanding of it is light years away from the fluffy marshmallow American version, and frerquently results in old ladies' doors being pelted with eggs or worse when they refuse to submit to extortion).

    Give us an Autumn festival rooted in good old-fashioned hobbit interests- by the end of October the first cider should be available, if niaught else.

  18. #18
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    They certainly do.
    Tolkien was an eloquent user of language and used English appropriate to the context and time. It is such a shame to corrupt that by using words and terms that would have no place in his works.
    Turbine has repeatedly told us to bug instances where Americanisms are used, this one seems to sneak past each year.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    Knoxville,Tn
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    You gotta laugh at some of these threads....

  20. #20
    Tolkien was a professor of Anglo-Saxon and English, and language was very important to him, since he went out of his way to construct a variety of them. It may be insubstantial to some but I'd rather not spit on his legacy by beginning to corrupt his works by sliding american colloquialism in, what next Hobbits twerking?

  21. #21
    In Appendix D under the section of The Calendar, it says there are 6 seasons. The seasons are: Spring, Summer, Autumn, Fading, Winter and Stirring. So if you are going by the book it would be Autumn and not Fall

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
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    Middle Earth, Arda
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    4,966

    Thumbs down

    Oh come on! Both sides of the sea fighting what english to use in the game. Let it (the leaves?) fall & go to the festival. Drink a couple beers together & celebrate the season! It is not what the festivity is for?

    ~ Check my Kinship at Gladden server: The Fate of Middle Earth ~

  23. #23
    This festival has been named and renamed with different words. It used to be Harvestmath Festival (just like the Summer Festival used to be Lithe Festival). I liked the older terms better as they seem more befitting to Middle-earth. Some still use the older terms, some use Autumn Festival and now there is Fall Festival as well and we definitely collect Fall Festival Tokens for it. I guess the Fall is here to stay. I hope they are not going to change the Yule Festival to Winter Festival as well...
    COSMETIC LOTRO

    a blog about Middle-earth outfits

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorthnoth View Post
    While we're at it, can we also lose all the Hallowe'en stuff. Hallowe'en = All Hallows Eve, the day before All Saints Day, specifically Christian, and as lore-breaking as it gets.
    Actually, not. All Hallows' Day was another example of the Church's reaction to important pagan festivals, baptizing them (so to speak).
    All Hallows' was originally Samhain (pronounced Soween), the eve of the autumn cross-quarter day (that is, the day halfway between
    the autumn equinox and the winter solstice), when the dead were supposed to walk.

    It was important, in northern Europe, to know not only when the quarter days (solstices and equinoxes) came but also when the cross-
    quarter days (in February, May, August, and October) came, because you needed to know when to plant your different crops -- if you
    planted too early, frost would kill the seedlings; if you planted too late, frost would come back before you could harvest. So when
    Christianity came to northern Europe, the quarter- and cross-quarter-days got important Christian festivals and major saints' days attached
    to them.

    If the Hobbits were observing Samhain, they would do so by crouching in their smials, desperately hoping that the dead wouldn't
    ride out of the Barrow-downs and get them.

    Tolkien put his Catholic Christianity as far into the background as he could. Halloween is as close to a secular festival as you can get
    these days, as anyone who's seen The Nightmare Before Christmas will recall.

    Oh, yes, and before there were pumpkins in Britain, the kids made jack-o'-lanterns out of turnips. They must have had mighty
    turnips in those days.
    Eruanne - Shards of Narsil-1 - Elendilmir -> Arkenstone

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    The Shire, Sydney Australia
    Posts
    710
    Your first mistake is thinking Americans spoke English....*grins and ducks*
    Its not Autumn down here (Australia) its Spring!! All these festivals are back to front for us in the Southern Hemisphere...and we didn't celebrate Halloween at all until 10 odd years ago when all of a sudden we started getting kids at the door demanding lollies...makes a change from demanding your wallet...still not sure what happened. Its still not a big thing but the shops are starting to cash in on it....reminds me must electrify the door knocker

    Anyways change the name to SpringAutumnFall festival and keep everyone happy.....wonder if Sapiences beard has fallen out yet or has he progressed to a nervous twitch and alcoholism
    Inside every old person is a young person wondering what just happened

 

 
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