Agro

[whostolemyname]

Hi everyone

Another noob question from me.

Will someone please explain agro to me? I understand what it means, but how do I see when a tank has enough aggro for me to start attacking without pulling the mob towards me? Is there a bar I'm missing, or is there an estimated waiting time or how does it work?
Sometimes I wait a while for the tank to get in a few stabs and jabs and then I start shooting, but still pull the mob... Not sure what I'm doing wrong. And please dont blame the tank, cause it's a very good tank.
Would appreciate an answer from a support player perspective and a tank's perspective if possible please

[Hallmund]

When the tank uses one of his aggro skills and it is effective, you'll notice three red curvy lines above the mob's head. Usually, you should wait until you've seen those lines three or four times, then it should be save to use your higher damage skills. You still might want to wait with those high burst damage.

You're a hunter? Well, then hold back a little longer. Ideally, you can talk to the tank via TS. He will let you know when it's save to start with the big ones.

You cannot see the amount of aggro in LotRO, you'll simply have to learn how much hate your skills generate. When dealing with bigger mobs, remember that the tank usually has to build up some defense and, thus, cannot generate that much aggro at the beginning of the fight.

[RJFerret]

There are pics of the red curvy lines here: http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Threat

But the tank should tell you when he's confident he has enough threat for you to unleash, that's what good tanks do! :-) Some of the strongest guard threat skills are locked behind block reactives, so just waiting isn't enough, only the guard will know. Also be sure you have the Target Assist window open and are following the appropriate target, as the tank will build up more on the primary target, then when it's about to drop, shift on to the next target to begin building threat before DPS gets on that one.

Another key thing, if you screw up, don't keep shooting/building MORE threat on yourself, stop and just autoattack (or even turn those off) so the tank can get it back readily. Also, if you aren't standing right next to the tank, run to the tank (who is probably running after the MOBs).

Note also, once you pull from a tank, they have limited skills to regain threat, and won't be getting reactives anymore for the stronger skills. So give it an extra moment after they have gotten the MOB back again.

[Grimdi]

It's based on gut feeling mostly, and understanding the instance mechanics. If the tank has to position the enemies then he'll need more time for aggro than if he tanks on the entry-point, if there are adds he may have to save some aggro-builders / force-taunts for them, and so on. And some instances have special aggro-mechanics on top of that.

As a rule of thumb I'll give the tank 10s for aggro-building (after positioning) when on champ/rk, as a hunter I'd probably wait a little longer their DPS doesn't take as long to build up.
But again, this can vary based on instance. Also depends a bit on what skills the tanks starts with, some people prefer to start with challenge+engage and let the DPS people go wild within the first few seconds already to get a solid aggro-lead.

[whostolemyname]

Thanks for everyone's input. It's a tremendous help, and especially thanks for the link that shows the picture of the red lines.
I've seen them, just never knew what they where for.

Another question (apologies if I should be creating a new thread for this, but don't want to spam the forum with all my questions?)
Im also thinking of creating a tank character for myself in order to learn the mechanics and so understand aggro better etc.
What is a better tank to learn from? A guardian or a warden? What other classes will be considered tanks?

[Grimdi]

Im also thinking of creating a tank character for myself in order to learn the mechanics and so understand aggro better etc.
What is a better tank to learn from? A guardian or a warden? What other classes will be considered tanks?

Well, for learning it's hard to say at the moment as the whole aggro system will see major changes with HD in a few weeks, so anything you learn now might be completely obsolete then.

Currently I'd say guards make it easier to understand general aggro management, champs aren't much different to them (in concept), while wardens use a somewhat different approach that is a bit more complex (cappies are considered tanks too, but I'd not recommend them to learn tanking techniques).

[Kril]

The key is to learn that you have aggro reducing skills, for a hunter, you can start to do a slow burn right away using endurance and quick shot (quick shot in endurance is a much lower threat gain). As a champ, there is an aggro dump, can do a bit of burst dps, and then drop your aggro on the tank to both make sure you don't get the aggro, and help the tank retain aggro. RKs have a couple threat reductions on lower cooldowns. Burgs can spam provoke to start a slow burn which will also dump aggro onto the tank (ideally). LMs can just drop some debuffs first and just don't start with Ents and Lightning storm (enduring flame is an aggro dump, but hardly ever needed and the induction on it makes it less usable)... A dps or healing cappy is hardly capable of pulling aggro in the first place, so dropping aggro isn't a big issue...

Basically, yes, the tanks job is to build aggro, and those red lines can be used to indicate he has gotten some of the aggro, but there are many things you can do to start your DPS and building up to the bigger skills that will actually HELP the tank build aggro. Follow target assist, start a slow burn, generally, a good tank can have solid aggro after 10-15 seconds tops, and even if they didn't get enough re-actives, they have enough skills to force aggro that it should be safe after this amount of time.

Really though, the best way to learn how aggro works, and how a tank builds it and keeps it, and what not to do as a DPS class, is to play a tank.