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  1. #26
    I'm thinking an 'easy' fix would be to create a version of tortoise pocket item that has a timer and expires over a set time and have it be freely available during double xp weekend. The item already exists, I wonder how much work it would be to copy and modify it so that it has a timer on it.

  2. #27
    Sapience is offline Former Community Manager & Harbinger of Soon
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    There is nothing new here. Certainly no "paradigm shift." We have had XP boosts of varying lengths and amounts since shortly after the game launched. Welcome back weekends, bonus XP boosts, even leveling contests, going back years. In fact, most online games do exactly the same thing.

    The only thing I can say is truly different now than when we started doing these years ago, is now there is an item you can purchase if you really are determined to avoid the bonuses which most people enjoy and look forward to. An item I'll point out that would never have been made without the store. Ever. I know because until the store and F2P, it was a non-starter in every discussion I had for years on the topic. That was a paradigm shift for us. Allowing players the option of purchasing a disable. Unless you were on this side for those discussions you can't imagine what a very real shift that was.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brom_Ironfist View Post
    I'm thinking an 'easy' fix would be to create a version of tortoise pocket item that has a timer and expires over a set time and have it be freely available during double xp weekend. The item already exists, I wonder how much work it would be to copy and modify it so that it has a timer on it.
    In fact, the first versions of this item had such a timer. The problem would be how to ensure they (and the disablebuff) all go poof at the end of the event without requiring a downtime.
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    Deglorion - SoA XP Disabler

  4. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    There is nothing new here. Certainly no "paradigm shift." We have had XP boosts of varying lengths and amounts since shortly after the game launched. Welcome back weekends, bonus XP boosts, even leveling contests, going back years. In fact, most online games do exactly the same thing.

    The only thing I can say is truly different now than when we started doing these years ago, is now there is an item you can purchase if you really are determined to avoid the bonuses which most people enjoy and look forward to. An item I'll point out that would never have been made without the store. Ever. I know because until the store and F2P, it was a non-starter in every discussion I had for years on the topic. That was a paradigm shift for us. Allowing players the option of purchasing a disable. Unless you were on this side for those discussions you can't imagine what a very real shift that was.
    Why not show some goodwill to those of us that hate this "gift" by giving us a sale on XP Disablers?

    The sea is calling us home...

  5. #30
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    They have had a disabler sale, if I am remembering correctly.

    That said, I don't want or need a disabler. They way I play is just as immersive as I don't give a fig what color a quest 'cons'. My internal goals and personal challenges remain, though what that entails changes. I have 3 and a half years now (nearly) in game. I have one capped, one 81 a host of 60s and a few 50s characters. The way I play paces them naturally. I have storage/craft mules in the 20s/30s. Come next expansion, I'll probably have another gaggle of alts to slow things down .

    I guess what I am saying is that the journey is what you make of it.
    "No sadder words of tongue or pen are the words: 'Might have been'." -- John Greenleaf Whittier
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    Indeed, in a world and life full of change, the only constant is human nature (A is A, after all :P).
    We old vets need to keep in mind those who come after us.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by C-Hound View Post
    (I started to reply to a thread about "30 days of double XP" (https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...rough-Nov-17th) , but realized my post was, really, on a different tangent. So, rather than risk derailing that thread, here...)


    In that other thread, some people were celebrating double-xp, and some bemoaning it, each for their various reasons. I was going to post my opinion, but...

    ...but let me take a step back, because I'm afraid that if I did I'd be being a bit of a hypocrite...

    I've always held and promoted the philosophy that "There are 101 ways to play, and every one is right - just not right for everyone." And I've often defended views I disagree with, simply because of that - "fun" is where you find it, not where someone else, or even "the majority" believes it should be found.







    There are clearly 2 camps (generally speaking), and that's fine - neither is "wrong", both are "right", if only for themselves and their preferred play style. Their "fun" is where they find it, and no one can gainsay that. And, I'd hope, everyone agrees with that part - "my" fun shouldn't have to be "your" fun, and so long as one fun doesn't interfere with the other then we can both have fun and everyone wins. And that's how it should be, right?

    The problem is that Lotro, apparently, disagrees with me.

    I say this because they have chosen to force double-xp on everyone, with no option to avoid it. If you don't like it, TOUGH, SUCK IT. Hey, seriously - that's what's happening for the next month, right? Double xp whether you like it or not! I mean, we never see a "half-xp" weekend, or a "no XP!" weekend, do we, even tho' many players spend Real Money on TP to buy a Stone of the Tortoise to achieve exactly that!

    So... why one group and not the other?...

    I think the answer is that Lotro is applying a a new paradigm to the game, one that has not been the paradigm of past years, and is expecting everyone to like it - and, clearly, not everyone does.

    For those who like a challenge (and there is no "challenge" to the game unless you put it there), double-xp makes that, the task of creating/maintaining a challenge, more difficult (if not impossible) in itself. The whole game suddenly becomes trivial - that's the term Lotro uses for grey monsters, right?

    For those who don't care about end-game or even "*ding* Level!", and want to take their time and enjoy each region at-level, again, too bad - you're going to out-level your current region whether you try to or not.

    Now, for those who do like it - hey, great, honestly happy for you - I wish you could find some empathy in your hearts for those whose game and "fun" just got jerked out from under them. I mean, how would you feel if Lotro did have a month of "half-xp"? You know it would be popular with some players, just not you...


    I guess my biggest concern is that this seems to reflect a recent pattern of such, of shifting away from "Enjoy the story, experience Middle Earth!" to "Race to endgame!" - a serious shift in design and marketing philosophy that, I believe, does not reflect the type of player that Lotro had - past tense - had been targeting until recently, and that the game simply does not seem designed for. Lotro will never have the hard-core gamer challenge of, say, DDO* - so why shift models when the platform won't support it, when the gamer base you've cultivated over years won't (all) enjoy it?

    (* Dungeons and Dragons Online, another popular WB MMORPG, but very diff in mechanic and player-dynamic, that presents very difficult instances ("dungeons") at-level, expects some repetitive "dungeon crawling" to level, punishes over-level play (with significantly lower xp), and strongly rewards end-game achievement.)

    And the dull, predictable response of "Anyone who doesn't like it doesn't have to play" ignores the fact that - for years, it's been the other way around. The entire player base that has been on this site since its start has stayed with the "world immersion" approach, and changing that now significantly and seriously changes that. Yes, anyone can leave - my question is, does Lotro understand their decisions are inviting them to?


    Me? I hate the forced double-xp - I'm going to park my permanent alts for the next month, and IF I do play I'll just grind TP - that's one thing that double-xp is good for.

    Good gaming, all - whatever game you'll be enjoying between now and Nov 17.
    They should make a server for players who like challenge. That way players who don't want to be able to auto attack everything to death can at least have an option for stimulating gameplay.

    Seems a reasonable solution to me.

  7. #32
    Sapience is offline Former Community Manager & Harbinger of Soon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dordain View Post
    Why not show some goodwill to those of us that hate this "gift" by giving us a sale on XP Disablers?
    You realize it was on sale just a couple of weeks ago, right?
    Let me see what I can do.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    They should make a server for players who like challenge. That way players who don't want to be able to auto attack everything to death can at least have an option for stimulating gameplay.

    Seems a reasonable solution to me.
    Not so to me. Someone will have to pay for it. I am getting what I want right now at a price I am willing to pay. I won't pay for the duplicative effort for something of no value to me. Do you and your friends have $10 million or so to do it and then supply several million a year afterwards to maintain it?

    Stimulating game play is what you make of it. High failure risk for no purpose other than wasting time is not something I call challenge. I call that tedium.
    "No sadder words of tongue or pen are the words: 'Might have been'." -- John Greenleaf Whittier
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    Indeed, in a world and life full of change, the only constant is human nature (A is A, after all :P).
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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    You realize it was on sale just a couple of weeks ago, right?
    Let me see what I can do.
    When it was on sale, we had no reason to expect there to be such a LONG event to opt out of. Most +XP events are in terms of 'Days/weekends' not WEEKS
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  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdq1958 View Post
    Not so to me. Someone will have to pay for it. I am getting what I want right now at a price I am willing to pay. I won't pay for the duplicative effort for something of no value to me. Do you and your friends have $10 million or so to do it and then supply several million a year afterwards to maintain it?

    Stimulating game play is what you make of it. High failure risk for no purpose other than wasting time is not something I call challenge. I call that tedium.
    Your post makes no sense. You aren't having to pay extra for anything. You can stay on the server that allows you to auto attack everything to death.

    But for players like me - who prefer gameplay that requires a modicum of skill with an actual risk of death involved - there should be a server made available for us. And judging by the amount of posts I have seen on these forums who agree with me that the solo content on this game has become far too easy, I'm sure there would be plenty enough players to sustain a single server.

    That's the problem with people of your perspective. You aren't willing to compromise. Just because you find challenging gameplay tedious you seem to want the rest of us to have to suffer through your desired button-mashing gameplay as well. Because if anything is tedious to me, it's mindless gameplay that requires no thought or reaction.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    You realize it was on sale just a couple of weeks ago, right?
    Let me see what I can do.
    Dang it. Missed that sale. Definitely would appreciate it being offered again. Thanks.

    I'm planning to develop some toons which I will stop at 32, 50, and 60. For the content at those levels. That's in addition to my stable of L85s, which is more than the sig.
    Viniel, 105 Minstrel -- (and others)

  12. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    Your post makes no sense. You aren't having to pay extra for anything. You can stay on the server that allows you to auto attack everything to death.

    But for players like me - who prefer gameplay that requires a modicum of skill with an actual risk of death involved - there should be a server made available for us. And judging by the amount of posts I have seen on these forums who agree with me that the solo content on this game has become far too easy, I'm sure there would be plenty enough players to sustain a single server.

    That's the problem with people of your perspective. You aren't willing to compromise. Just because you find challenging gameplay tedious you seem to want the rest of us to have to suffer through your desired button-mashing gameplay as well. Because if anything is tedious to me, it's mindless gameplay that requires no thought or reaction.
    The problem is that extra servers with separate content costs a lot extra. Far more than you can reasonable expect the players that will choose to play on that server to pay. Which means that the money will have to come out of the revenue the rest of us generates - i.e. the rest of us will have to pay for it aswell. Not in a direct sense, but indirectly by resources being diverted to the special server from the general development.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    Your post makes no sense. You aren't having to pay extra for anything. You can stay on the server that allows you to auto attack everything to death.

    But for players like me - who prefer gameplay that requires a modicum of skill with an actual risk of death involved - there should be a server made available for us. And judging by the amount of posts I have seen on these forums who agree with me that the solo content on this game has become far too easy, I'm sure there would be plenty enough players to sustain a single server.

    That's the problem with people of your perspective. You aren't willing to compromise. Just because you find challenging gameplay tedious you seem to want the rest of us to have to suffer through your desired button-mashing gameplay as well. Because if anything is tedious to me, it's mindless gameplay that requires no thought or reaction.
    Well you're wrong about current gameplay being mindless unless you've done it so many times that you no longer have to think about it. That's the problem with people of your perspective. It becomes familiar to the point of being rote; so you want 'artificial' difficulty just to call it a challenge and want to blow off the rest. What you want is a niche game. Fine, so be it. That train left the station years ago.

    I refuse to allow that infection to take hold of me. I have played enough for things to be familiar, but my approach remains that of someone who can always learn something new and expects the unexpected.

    Who do you think will make this server? If it is Turbine, then you're wrong about me having to pay. I will have to pay one way or another. If it isn't Turbine, then sure. Yet your post strongly implied that Turbine will do this. That comes at a cost I am not willing to pay.

    I take those posts with the appropriate grain of salt. It is true for you and those like-minded; but not so for anyone else. Your too easy is someone else's bloody impossible. For me, the difficulty is just right.

    I don't think you're right about the number of players for such a server. If you are, put your money where your mouth is and raise it and pay the fees needed to run it. I think you're looking at a few hundred to a thousand or two hard cores and a few thousand who'll pass through. If I am wrong, fine; but experience over a decade says that I am not that wrong.
    "No sadder words of tongue or pen are the words: 'Might have been'." -- John Greenleaf Whittier
    "Do or do not. There is no try." -- Yoda
    On planet Earth, there is a try.
    Indeed, in a world and life full of change, the only constant is human nature (A is A, after all :P).
    We old vets need to keep in mind those who come after us.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdq1958 View Post
    Well you're wrong about current gameplay being mindless unless you've done it so many times that you no longer have to think about it. .
    Well we disagree about that. When you can auto attack something to death, I don't really see how something could get more mindless than that.

  15. #40
    To tell the truth, I don't really understand the concept of endgame, in a story that doesn't really have an end. Each expansion extends the story a bit further. But there's never really an end, right? Just in case there's somebody out there who hasn't read the books or seen the movies, even after the Big Boss finally meets *his* end, there's lots of stuff to be done in Middle-earth... things to rebuild... a Shire to be scoured, etc., etc. One can hope, anyway.

  16. #41
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    xp disabler

    I resent having to pay 495 TP for an XP disabler when we are given so many XP boosts already for free. Frankly, I toss mine out each time. Could you please disable me getting those? I don't see why it can't be made an option. You're not making cash money from the purchase anyway. All you're doing is taking back the 500 TP per month that I have already paid for. You might be encouraging a few to subscribe, but most seem to want F2p, are lifers or V.I.P/Premium. Opting out for a new or low level character that you would eventually like to level but want to get some crafting accomplished first makes perfect sense because you disable character XP gains. You quickly out level your starter area, plus all of Bree, perhaps even a bit of LL and all the task boards associated just by crafting with no disabler. So then you go back and cry because you have to do all that boring grind to earn traits, virtues etc when you decide to level your character. XP disablers are a necessary evil for those of us who want to enjoy the game at our own pace and Turbine knows that, hence the requirement to buy them. It all really boils down to how you want to play and is a personal choice.

    XP disablers were on sale 2 weeks ago at 20% off and a few months before that at 50% off. I bought 6 and while I might resent it, I'll buy more if necessary.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/2521c000000241fb6/signature.png]Galaetea[/charsig]

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  17. #42
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    Lotro doesn't give a damn about players anymore. It's all about the money.

    If you start a new character and play the game now you will be out of Bree, the Shire, and the Lone Lands in record time, which is the whole point of forcing 100 percent xp gain on all chars for 30 days. Most people don't see this for what it really is. It is a test to a permanent xp change. They are testing if they can adjust the xp permanently by 100 percent and to see how quickly they can force people out of the "Free to Play" content forcing them to buy expansions to continue the game in any meaningful amount of time. The next change is eliminating virtually all free TP gain methods. It's coming, you can bet your bottom dollar.

    And why? Maybe it has something to do with Warner Brother getting sued by the Tolkien Estate for using content against license agreements.

    http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/11/...s-online-games

    Tolkien's estate said it never granted any permission to develop the video or gambling games.
    So now, its all about the money because most likely, LOTRO is finished and will be closed down as soon as the lawsuit is finished. Why? Its because LOTRO is not worth 80 million. In short, to get 80 million dollars from LOTRO in short order would be to kill the game. That's right, the people who own Tolkien never gave away the rights to digital content and online gaming apparently according to their statement.

    But the point of the post is to show that Turbine and Warner brothers only cares about the bucks now and will do anything they can to extort, force, demand, that players of this supposed free game start to pony up the cash in order to play in any meaningful way. Me, I uninstalled this game 2 months ago.
    Last edited by Sinkhan; Oct 22 2013 at 01:14 AM.

  18. #43
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    Here is the statement from the lawsuit against Warner Brothers, which owns Turbine.

    However, in recent years, and particularly in the aftermath of the
    unprecedented financial and critical success of the Films, defendants have, with
    increasing boldness, engaged in a continuing and escalating pattern of usurping
    rights to which they are not entitled — rights which belong exclusively to plaintiffs.
    For example, although their limited merchandising license only gives them the right
    to sell tangible merchandise, defendants have developed, licensed and/or sold (and
    continue to develop, license and/or sell) downloadable video games based on The
    Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit, available only by downloading and/or access via
    the Internet, via mobile apps, tablet apps or other similar digital distribution
    channels, or through other online interconnectivity such as Facebook. There is no
    physical or tangible item of merchandise sold to the consumer with these games.
    Meaning that Turbine and Warner Brothers never had the legal right to create Lord of The Rings Online in the first place and they may not have these rights after this case.

  19. #44
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    Speaking of wanting sales...

    {derails thread}

    I'm still waiting on a sale for horse colors. Those haven't been on sale for ages.

    (or, even better, them splitting up the stupid color packs into single colors, then I'd buy them not on sale, but that's another thing entirely)

    {/derail}

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  20. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinkhan View Post
    Here is the statement from the lawsuit against Warner Brothers, which owns Turbine.



    Meaning that Turbine and Warner Brothers never had the legal right to create Lord of The Rings Online in the first place and they may not have these rights after this case.

    I don't buy it. If there was no licensing agreement in place, this game would have been shut down a long time ago and probably never would have been made to begin with. I suspect there are other games out there that fall under this category in the lawsuit.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinkhan View Post
    Here is the statement from the lawsuit against Warner Brothers, which owns Turbine.



    Meaning that Turbine and Warner Brothers never had the legal right to create Lord of The Rings Online in the first place and they may not have these rights after this case.
    Except I and many others have - LOTRO installation CD's. - tangible product

    pwned

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinkhan View Post
    Lotro doesn't give a damn about players anymore. It's all about the money.

    If you start a new character and play the game now you will be out of Bree, the Shire, and the Lone Lands in record time, which is the whole point of forcing 100 percent xp gain on all chars for 30 days. Most people don't see this for what it really is. It is a test to a permanent xp change. They are testing is they can adjust the xp permanently by 100 percent and to see how quickly they can force people out of the "Free to Play" content thereby forcing them to buy expansions to continue the game. The next change is eliminating virtually all free TP gain methods. It's coming, you can bet your bottom dollar.

    And why? Maybe it has something to do with Warner Brother getting sued by the Tolkien Estate for using content against license agreements.

    http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/11/...s-online-games



    So now, its all about the money because most likely, LOTRO is finished and will be closed down as soon as the lawsuit is finished. Why? Its because LOTRO is not worth 80 million. In short, to get 80 million dollars from LOTRO in short order would be to kill the game. That's right, the people who own Tolkien never gave away the rights to digital content and online gaming apparently according to their statement.

    But the point of the post is to show that Turbine and Warner brothers only cares about the bucks now and will do anything they can to extort, force, demand, that players of this supposed free game start to pony up the cash in order to play in any meaningful way. Me, I uninstalled this game 2 months ago.
    Tolkien Estate didn't sell the right to make games, that's correct, because they don't have control over the all thigns Tolkien, Tolkien himself (the actual Tolkien, not his son Chris) sold off a lot to a different company and Tolkien Estate doesn't own those rights. The others hold them and have given rightful permissions and if you knew the history of teh Tolkien Estate they sue every few years and guess what nothing ever comes of it because they're just after a little pay-out. And a pay-out is what they gets, and they shuttup and are silent for a few more years.

    And the lawsuit is mostly over the digital slot machines anyway.

    Do a little more research or well any rather than stopping at a subjective quote or passage.

    pwned again.

  23. #48
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    A little more research eh?

    Here is the actual court document!

    http://www-deadline-com.vimg.net/wp-...1120024937.pdf

    Here is the quote from section 1 about online games (not gambling). Gambling games is covered under section 2.

    However, in recent years, and particularly in the aftermath of the
    unprecedented financial and critical success of the Films, defendants have, with
    increasing boldness, engaged in a continuing and escalating pattern of usurping
    rights to which they are not entitled — rights which belong exclusively to plaintiffs.
    For example, although their limited merchandising license only gives them the right
    to sell tangible merchandise, defendants have developed, licensed and/or sold (and
    continue to develop, license and/or sell) downloadable video games based on The
    Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit, available only by downloading and/or access via
    the Internet, via mobile apps, tablet apps or other similar digital distribution
    channels, or through other online interconnectivity such as Facebook. There is no
    physical or tangible item of merchandise sold to the consumer with these games.
    Warner Brothers and Turbine apparently never had the right to make LOTRO in the first place. That is the suit anyway. Warner Brothers is counter suing for destroying the value of licensing. So, the point here is, do the research yourself first before accusing other people of not doing it.

  24. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by cdq1958 View Post
    They have had a disabler sale, if I am remembering correctly.
    Here's a question: When they most recently had a sale on XP Disablers, were we at that time aware that an entire month of +100% XP was right around the corner? Bearing in mind that XP Disablers were introduced at the repeated request of players(thus exhibiting an existing demand for such), don't you think that something like an entire month of +100% XP might possibly have the slightest impact on the demand for such an item?

    Quote Originally Posted by cdq1958 View Post
    That said, I don't want or need a disabler. They way I play is just as immersive as I don't give a fig what color a quest 'cons'. My internal goals and personal challenges remain, though what that entails changes. I have 3 and a half years now (nearly) in game. I have one capped, one 81 a host of 60s and a few 50s characters. The way I play paces them naturally. I have storage/craft mules in the 20s/30s. Come next expansion, I'll probably have another gaggle of alts to slow things down .

    I guess what I am saying is that the journey is what you make of it.
    Yes, but other players do care. Why is it so hard to understand that other people have different preferences and priorities, and all are just as valid as any others?

    Quote Originally Posted by cdq1958 View Post
    Well you're wrong about current gameplay being mindless unless you've done it so many times that you no longer have to think about it. That's the problem with people of your perspective. It becomes familiar to the point of being rote; so you want 'artificial' difficulty just to call it a challenge and want to blow off the rest. What you want is a niche game. Fine, so be it. That train left the station years ago.

    I refuse to allow that infection to take hold of me. I have played enough for things to be familiar, but my approach remains that of someone who can always learn something new and expects the unexpected.

    Who do you think will make this server? If it is Turbine, then you're wrong about me having to pay. I will have to pay one way or another. If it isn't Turbine, then sure. Yet your post strongly implied that Turbine will do this. That comes at a cost I am not willing to pay.

    I take those posts with the appropriate grain of salt. It is true for you and those like-minded; but not so for anyone else. Your too easy is someone else's bloody impossible. For me, the difficulty is just right.

    I don't think you're right about the number of players for such a server. If you are, put your money where your mouth is and raise it and pay the fees needed to run it. I think you're looking at a few hundred to a thousand or two hard cores and a few thousand who'll pass through. If I am wrong, fine; but experience over a decade says that I am not that wrong.
    I have been nearly bored to tears the entire way through my first and only trek through both Rohan and Wildermore because of how mind-numbingly easy it is. Due to your post, I just again tested my Hunter main's auto-attack against a lone orc in the Sutcrofts. She only lost about 1,100 morale by the time the orc was dead. How could anything in Rohan be even remotely considered to be "bloody impossible" if a Hunter endures little more than a scratch just facerolling a fight with auto-attacks? Do you only ever fight 3 mobs at once using only auto-attack?

    The sea is calling us home...

  25. #50
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    They had the right, look up who actually owns the rights for Lord of the Rings material, not either of those two companies.

    Anything related to Silmarillion, other works and extensions yes Tolkien Estate owns that.

    You're refusing to actually look at the history of the lawsuits since the first movies.

    And WB never developed LOTRO - they purchased the company that long after its development. Now if Tolkien Estate was sueing over LOTRO they would have actually named Turbine and sued the subsidary, not the whole.

    You've missed where this lawsuit began which is clearly defined what it is targeting, not LOTRO.

    PS how is your own little lawsuit going?

 

 
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