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  1. #1
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    Game philosophy change - game world immersion or end-game race?

    (I started to reply to a thread about "30 days of double XP" (https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...rough-Nov-17th) , but realized my post was, really, on a different tangent. So, rather than risk derailing that thread, here...)


    In that other thread, some people were celebrating double-xp, and some bemoaning it, each for their various reasons. I was going to post my opinion, but...

    ...but let me take a step back, because I'm afraid that if I did I'd be being a bit of a hypocrite...

    I've always held and promoted the philosophy that "There are 101 ways to play, and every one is right - just not right for everyone." And I've often defended views I disagree with, simply because of that - "fun" is where you find it, not where someone else, or even "the majority" believes it should be found.

    Quote Originally Posted by cdq1958 View Post
    I, for one, love it....
    Quote Originally Posted by Willim View Post
    I'm not a fan of double XP weekends either...
    Quote Originally Posted by Vilda View Post
    Cant believe people complain about XP boost...
    Quote Originally Posted by Mildford View Post
    There goes my hopes of doing quests on-level.
    Quote Originally Posted by manstan View Post
    I emphatically disagree....
    There are clearly 2 camps (generally speaking), and that's fine - neither is "wrong", both are "right", if only for themselves and their preferred play style. Their "fun" is where they find it, and no one can gainsay that. And, I'd hope, everyone agrees with that part - "my" fun shouldn't have to be "your" fun, and so long as one fun doesn't interfere with the other then we can both have fun and everyone wins. And that's how it should be, right?

    The problem is that Lotro, apparently, disagrees with me.

    I say this because they have chosen to force double-xp on everyone, with no option to avoid it. If you don't like it, TOUGH, SUCK IT. Hey, seriously - that's what's happening for the next month, right? Double xp whether you like it or not! I mean, we never see a "half-xp" weekend, or a "no XP!" weekend, do we, even tho' many players spend Real Money on TP to buy a Stone of the Tortoise to achieve exactly that!

    So... why one group and not the other?...

    I think the answer is that Lotro is applying a a new paradigm to the game, one that has not been the paradigm of past years, and is expecting everyone to like it - and, clearly, not everyone does.

    For those who like a challenge (and there is no "challenge" to the game unless you put it there), double-xp makes that, the task of creating/maintaining a challenge, more difficult (if not impossible) in itself. The whole game suddenly becomes trivial - that's the term Lotro uses for grey monsters, right?

    For those who don't care about end-game or even "*ding* Level!", and want to take their time and enjoy each region at-level, again, too bad - you're going to out-level your current region whether you try to or not.

    Now, for those who do like it - hey, great, honestly happy for you - I wish you could find some empathy in your hearts for those whose game and "fun" just got jerked out from under them. I mean, how would you feel if Lotro did have a month of "half-xp"? You know it would be popular with some players, just not you...


    I guess my biggest concern is that this seems to reflect a recent pattern of such, of shifting away from "Enjoy the story, experience Middle Earth!" to "Race to endgame!" - a serious shift in design and marketing philosophy that, I believe, does not reflect the type of player that Lotro had - past tense - had been targeting until recently, and that the game simply does not seem designed for. Lotro will never have the hard-core gamer challenge of, say, DDO* - so why shift models when the platform won't support it, when the gamer base you've cultivated over years won't (all) enjoy it?

    (* Dungeons and Dragons Online, another popular WB MMORPG, but very diff in mechanic and player-dynamic, that presents very difficult instances ("dungeons") at-level, expects some repetitive "dungeon crawling" to level, punishes over-level play (with significantly lower xp), and strongly rewards end-game achievement.)

    And the dull, predictable response of "Anyone who doesn't like it doesn't have to play" ignores the fact that - for years, it's been the other way around. The entire player base that has been on this site since its start has stayed with the "world immersion" approach, and changing that now significantly and seriously changes that. Yes, anyone can leave - my question is, does Lotro understand their decisions are inviting them to?


    Me? I hate the forced double-xp - I'm going to park my permanent alts for the next month, and IF I do play I'll just grind TP - that's one thing that double-xp is good for.

    Good gaming, all - whatever game you'll be enjoying between now and Nov 17.
    Last edited by C-Hound; Oct 18 2013 at 05:20 PM.

  2. #2
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    I like it sometimes - sometimes it is irrelevant to me - endgame is not my focus though. I like to hit certain levels for the fun of crafting new gear, then I park and play an alt for a bit.
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  3. #3
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    One thing Lotro used to do well is provide options. Want a grouping experience in your 20s? Do GBs and/or skirms with folks in Bree. Want solo? Quest around Bree.

    Later? Solo Lone Lands. Group Dol Dinen.

    30s? Solo Evendim; group Trollshaws.

    40s? Solo Misty; group Angmar.

    50s? Solo most of Moria; group that one section in the top eastern corner (Fanged Pit, since removed/changed to solo). This is when the philosophy seemed to change.

    They stripped group quests from Evendim, they stripped OPTIONAL group quests from Moria. As it is, back during the Isengard expansion they increased the XP from 50+ so you only do about half Moria before outleveling it.

    It seems someone at Turbine doesn't want us paying them for content. If you do Moria now, there are three regions potentially to buy after it, but you only need one before you outlevel everything. Don't buy Loth and Enedwaith, just do Mirk, or some other mix.

    Dunland was more solo designed, while Great River had some group content. However Rohan is mostly solo and Wildermore is entirely solo, lacking any useful group content.

    This foundation is what brings us forced skipping of content (which is all the increased XP does). There already is a mechanic to achieve this, purchase XP boosts from the store (or grind TP to cover the cost)--which profits Turbine. Those who want to actually experience the game need not buy them. Those who want to experience more purchase the XP disabler. Those are great options.

    All the XP boost does is take away an option from one group, forcing a different result upon them. The option to have XP boost is still available to those that want it.

    It's just nonsensical from a business/customer relations perspective. It's also nonsensical from a game design perspective, the psychology of it shows people do not have fun when they do not have choice. If people don't have fun with their entertainment, they switch to a form they enjoy.

    Smarter would have been to enable the boost for a limited time, so those negatively impacted could skip playing a few times, and those who want it could focus their play when it was on, keeping the days shifting so nobody was locked out of their preferred circumstance. That woulda' been a win-win instead.

    If they keep negating players' options, they will keep driving even more players away.
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by RJFerret View Post
    One thing Lotro used to do well is provide options.... the psychology of it shows people do not have fun when they do not have choice.
    True. Lots of research - published, empirical research - to support this.

  5. #5
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    I don't care even one tiny bit about reaching the top level. I am level 38 right now. Even with this bonus it takes me about 3 days to increase one level - playing about 2 hours a day. I don't know what others are doing to level so quickly that it's a problem. But I can say no problems here. Also, I often die when facing a group of trivial monsters with a boss. They don't seem so trivial to me. The game seems plenty challenging on gray.

  6. #6
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    I'm in the "I'd like to level at my own pace, thank you very much" camp. I'm currently having lots of fun playing everything I can red or orange with my current main, which is approximately my 30th character, I think. I'm using the Stone of the Tortoise, of course. I'd like to play other characters too now and then, but don't want to spring for all those Stones of the Tortoise.

    I think it would please most following this path if the Tortoise were available at the Bounder barterer at a nominal price like the Universal Crafting tool.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by ElanorFb View Post
    I don't care even one tiny bit about reaching the top level. I am level 38 right now. Even with this bonus it takes me about 3 days to increase one level - playing about 2 hours a day. I don't know what others are doing to level so quickly that it's a problem. But I can say no problems here. Also, I often die when facing a group of trivial monsters with a boss. They don't seem so trivial to me. The game seems plenty challenging on gray.
    This is pretty much my experience in the game as well.

    The trouble with MMORPGs is they attract people who play a couple hours a day or even a few hours a week, and then people who spend 8-10 hours a day, 7 days a week, every week.

    To some, leveling goes quickly, simply because they are playing a lot. If you don't play a lot, it seems like a gigantic mountain whose summit you can never reach, and every time the level cap raises, the top just gets further up. I've got probably 600 hours invested in my main character over 5 years and he's 76th level (Currently he's on hiatus while I spend 6 weeks crafting him 75 guild armor, since I keep drying). To other people, 600 hours is probably two months of gameplay, not 5 years.

    What they need to do I think is lower the amount of experience you get the more you play. Like for 1 hours, it's 200%, then for 2-5 hours it's 100%, then for 6+ it is 50% and over 10, it's 10%

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJFerret View Post
    If they keep negating players' options, they will keep driving even more players away.

    I have no clue if this will drive LOTRO players away, but I do have this to say. When I was playing SWTOR, one companion that I hated was some stupid little droid that followed me around, and I always chose another of a selection of npcs to follow me around. Well, part of the questline required me to take that droid with me and I quit SWTOR that day. I'm forced to do things in RL that I cannot stand and I will not have it in a computer game.


    Not sure if this is relevant to the topic but I wanted to point this out.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymphonic View Post
    I have no clue if this will drive LOTRO players away, but I do have this to say. When I was playing SWTOR, one companion that I hated was some stupid little droid that followed me around, and I always chose another of a selection of npcs to follow me around. Well, part of the questline required me to take that droid with me and I quit SWTOR that day. I'm forced to do things in RL that I cannot stand and I will not have it in a computer game.


    Not sure if this is relevant to the topic but I wanted to point this out.
    I think you have the right of it here - all playstyles should have options toward the same goals - or some players will be lost. There's no harm in it if I achieve the same goal as a raider or someone who likes group content - we are all playing, having fun, and *paying* maybe at the point shop for fun stuff. We should all have ways that fit how we want to play, to see and do everything. I don't think this is a good game to be protecting fragile end game raiders egos - everything should be accessible to everyone - make it a skirmish, make it a solo instance, whatever it takes - and then you will keep more people playing.
    Exclusivity only appeals to the *elite* as they like to call themselves - fie on them, FIE I say!
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymphonic View Post
    I have no clue if this will drive LOTRO players away, but I do have this to say. When I was playing SWTOR, one companion that I hated was some stupid little droid that followed me around, and I always chose another of a selection of npcs to follow me around. Well, part of the questline required me to take that droid with me and I quit SWTOR that day. I'm forced to do things in RL that I cannot stand and I will not have it in a computer game.


    Not sure if this is relevant to the topic but I wanted to point this out.
    I'd say it is very relevant indeed. Playing a game is for the sake of fun. The moment when something is being forced upon a player, being robbed of a choice diminishes the fun. When something that's forced is also a source of annoyance to boot, the sense of fun dies miserably and there's no more reason left to play, since playing no longer equates having fun.

    As for me, I belong to the "immersion" camp - not level-capped yet and not in a hurry to get there. Fortunately I have the exp disabler, so this current "welcome back month" does not affect me... Thus far, I have been able to progress at my own pace. But if there is indeed a shift in the game philosophy and I start feeling like I'm being prodded to 'level faster', that will not sit well with me.
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  11. #11
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    Hello all I have a couple of characters at 85. I almost entirely solo (although I have now joined a kinship and have started to do a few things as a group). However I take regular breaks from the game. This is entirely intentional and it really helps to keep the game fresh for me. It also means that I forget which areas are suitable for my level! Because of this, my current character (minstrel) is struggling a bit in Angmar especially as I keep missing quest nodes lol. So I for one am glad of the double xp as it's helping me out quite a bit.

    HOWEVER

    I also agree that everyone is different and that double xp can cause havoc (especially for roleplayers). Because of this, I also agree that forcing the xp gain on people is unfair and really hope some kind of tool or device can be implemented to let those players turn off the xp boost.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herwegur View Post
    I'd say it is very relevant indeed. Playing a game is for the sake of fun. The moment when something is being forced upon a player, being robbed of a choice diminishes the fun. When something that's forced is also a source of annoyance to boot, the sense of fun dies miserably and there's no more reason left to play, since playing no longer equates having fun.

    As for me, I belong to the "immersion" camp - not level-capped yet and not in a hurry to get there. Fortunately I have the exp disabler, so this current "welcome back month" does not affect me... Thus far, I have been able to progress at my own pace. But if there is indeed a shift in the game philosophy and I start feeling like I'm being prodded to 'level faster', that will not sit well with me.
    As for me, i also belong to the immersion camp, only I think the game truly becomes immersive when i am fighting alongside 11 others, working with them as a group. To me, running around questing by myself, for guys with gold rings above their heads, and being 'forced' to level beofre i can explore the world, are simply a video game overlay on the virtual world.

    I don't particularly want double xp and would love to see a toggle to disable it, but... just because people want to level up quickly for whatever reason makes them no less a fan of immersion, lore, fun, exlporation or the game. I am guessing but Turbine probably sees a boost in logins for double xp periods.. The dynamics between economics, gameplay, immersion, real life and fun are nearly always in tension We are all forced to do many things in this game, sometimes we just need to state what we want - not box players into camps or playstyles.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJFerret View Post

    Smarter would have been to enable the boost for a limited time, so those negatively impacted could skip playing a few times, and those who want it could focus their play when it was on, keeping the days shifting so nobody was locked out of their preferred circumstance. That woulda' been a win-win instead.
    I disagree. I am enjoying the boost and am happy to have it available all month (I don't always have a lot of time to play). I think it would be better to have an option to disable it (Which you can pay TP to do), but a free option. This way those who want to enjoy the boost can, and those who don't can enjoy themselves as well.

  14. #14
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    Since a lot of these threads seem to dump players in oen field or another I might go around that route and just reply to the title of the post only....

    Game philosophy change - game world immersion or end-game race?
    Why can;t it ever be both?

    Some race to max level and do the story quests within a month or two and still hold down their day jobs and family time without much burden (I myself can never level this quick but know a few in the mentioned bracket) these people seem to always talk about the story they're experiencing to me when I login.

    Then you got folks like me - who do mostly the non-epic content to a certain level then do the minimal required amount of the epic to get further, etc until we're max level. Except it wasn't to rush to max level for max level's sake. With max level comes the ability to experience the world as a whole when and how wish. To go through skipped epics at a pace to enjoy their story, to enter and explore the lore and mechanics behind end-game raids - and to have unlimited possibilities of role-play without a risk of being one shot by an angry badger.

    I just do not see how rushing to max level can always be considered a bad thing - you still have to learn the class a little - but the reasons to rush can often be exactly for the purpose of immersion without worrying about the next damned grind/level restriction.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by C-Hound View Post
    For those who don't care about end-game or even "*ding* Level!", and want to take their time and enjoy each region at-level, again, too bad - you're going to out-level your current region whether you try to or not.
    True enough. I look at it as allowing me to be more selective on the quests I do. I've been here over 7 years now, and I've probably done 10,000 kill quests. Maybe 15,000. Really. If I can skip the more vanilla quests and still move along... great.

    I know this drives completionists crazy (because when I first started playing, I was one too). Repetition cured me of that. It really isn't very enjoyable to kill every single boar, bear, wolf, warg, etc in every region I visit. That started wearing thin at least 5 years ago.

    I guess my biggest concern is that this seems to reflect a recent pattern of such, of shifting away from "Enjoy the story, experience Middle Earth!" to "Race to endgame!"
    This makes sense just before an expansion is released. Expansions almost always focus their new content on high level characters, and the more people with characters in that range, the more people will be tempted to buy the expansion. Allowing level 10+ characters to participate in Epic Battles will help in that regard, but moving more newer players along toward the current cap will too.

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  16. #16
    Game philosophy has not changed, it is the same for a long time already - trying to get as much money as possible while investing as little as possible. Everything they have done in the last 2 years was reducing investments in game, producing only core updates. They ignore group content, they ignore pvp, they reduce their staff to the minimum, they cancelled lotro "armory" on this website, even landscape content is dull and boring and lacks something "extra".

    This month of +100% has only one goal - push as many people as possible to the level cap so they will need to preorder HD to continue playing. They dont care if you like it or not, they only care about you preordering HD. Sales must be really low...
    Last edited by Chupakabara; Oct 19 2013 at 08:48 AM.

  17. #17
    I have posted about this and even on other topics as well but I am in agreement with the options part of it. I would like an option to turn off the double xp. I don't need or even want it so I would like to be able to turn it off. Without being forced to either have to buy the xp disabler or not play until it goes away. I don't want them to turn it off because there are those that enjoy it. And it is totally cool for them that do. But what about us that don't want it and want to turn it off. We can't, unless we purchase the xp disabler to do so. Which in turn isn't fair for us. I am a vip, so I have the TP to get the xp disabler ( most probably do ), but I want to be able to get it if I want it not because I am forced to because it is the only option I have to turn off the double xp. This double xp is not a real part of the game xp received, it is a bonus. Thereby we should have an option to accept it or turn it off.


  18. #18
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    Hopefully with the scaling mechanisms for the big battles Turbine manages to implement some kind of scaling mechanism working with your morale / power and your equipment too, so you could be scaled down according to the regions average level. Of course you still would have a noticable advantage to an on-level player, but at least that would allow you to play the area as it is meant to be, with mobs aggroing etc.

  19. #19
    I ventured into Moria at level 50 3 days ago. I am taking my time, enjoying new (to me) content and environment, following the story of each quest line. Yet 3 days later I am already about to hit level 54. I play an hour or two in the evenings, no more.

    I have a tortoise that I purchased a while back during a bout of double XP that had me out levelling lonelands when I had only just got to Ost Guruth.

    I ended up skipping North Downs completely.

    I'll allow my main to get to level 56 so I can craft the armour I have my eye on for her, then either use the tortoise until i'm sure I haven't missed any new content or use the double XP to level an alt.

    I think they want everyone to be ready for HD when it is released. Think of the sales figures at release! It will reflect much better on the game if more people buy it at release other than a slow trickle of people buying it as and when they need it.

    I dont like it, it has forced me to change my plans for my main and I don't appreciate that at all. However, a part of me would like to be among the first to experience HD at release - so i'm on the fence lol.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJFerret View Post
    It's just nonsensical from a business/customer relations perspective. It's also nonsensical from a game design perspective, the psychology of it shows people do not have fun when they do not have choice. If people don't have fun with their entertainment, they switch to a form they enjoy.

    If they keep negating players' options, they will keep driving even more players away.
    I would agree it is nonsensical from a customer relations standpoint, however from a business standpoint I see why they want to accelerate people's level. They want sales and Turbine knows that higher lvl players generally spend more at the store or market. When Turbine went F2P, this was all foretold. It's not like the old MMO's made to challenge us and pay a monthly sub + game content, it is the new & improved MMO that focuses on marketing ingame for increased sales. We should be familiar with this concept - Google, Amazon and about every internet based company does the same. This is the paradigm that game companies are using to increase sales instead of creating a more compelling product. Do I like it - heck no and I expressed my thoughts at that time. So Turbine has received a lot less of my money since they went F2P - it was their choice to change the game and my choice not to reward their direction.

    The current issue of double xp is a direct result of the previous marketing decisions and this won't change anytime soon. The players opinions are certainly secondary to sales, it really doesn't matter how many people complain if sales aren't reduced due to the complaints. But at this point in Lotro's development, even a mass boycott of HD likely wouldn't change things, except to maybe hasten Turbine's demise.

    What I suggest is to do something different ingame when these situations occur. Such as start an alt and do an area that you had to skip because you leveled too fast with the previous alt. I will never have one character do every quest in every region anymore, however I can easily accomplish this with multiple toons. I really don't care about doing every quest multiple times with multiple toons so this works out fine. But if you play with only one toon and you don't want to go too fast because you want to 'see everything' then your choices are buy the XP disabler, create another toon or go with the flow and pick up the missed quests with an alt later. Obviously, if you are VIP you'll need the disabler - somewhat ironic albeit.

    Not playing the character you like the most may seem punishing to some, however when you have finished the expac and reached the lvl cap how is that any different? My main has been parked for the whole year, since with our ridiculous rate of leveling I was capped before Christmas last year - and I was purposely going slow! Imagine if they did this double xp for a month after HD launched? That would really have people protesting.

    I do respect all those who wish not to level and not be helped to do so by Turbine. Personally I think XP disablers should be free or cost very little, although I would never 'buy' one unless I miraculously won a lifetime membership!

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by C-Hound View Post
    (I started to reply to a thread about "30 days of double XP" (https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...rough-Nov-17th) , but realized my post was, really, on a different tangent. So, rather than risk derailing that thread, here...)


    In that other thread, some people were celebrating double-xp, and some bemoaning it, each for their various reasons. I was going to post my opinion, but...

    ...but let me take a step back, because I'm afraid that if I did I'd be being a bit of a hypocrite...

    I've always held and promoted the philosophy that "There are 101 ways to play, and every one is right - just not right for everyone." And I've often defended views I disagree with, simply because of that - "fun" is where you find it, not where someone else, or even "the majority" believes it should be found.







    There are clearly 2 camps (generally speaking), and that's fine - neither is "wrong", both are "right", if only for themselves and their preferred play style. Their "fun" is where they find it, and no one can gainsay that. And, I'd hope, everyone agrees with that part - "my" fun shouldn't have to be "your" fun, and so long as one fun doesn't interfere with the other then we can both have fun and everyone wins. And that's how it should be, right?

    The problem is that Lotro, apparently, disagrees with me.

    I say this because they have chosen to force double-xp on everyone, with no option to avoid it. If you don't like it, TOUGH, SUCK IT. Hey, seriously - that's what's happening for the next month, right? Double xp whether you like it or not! I mean, we never see a "half-xp" weekend, or a "no XP!" weekend, do we, even tho' many players spend Real Money on TP to buy a Stone of the Tortoise to achieve exactly that!

    So... why one group and not the other?...

    I think the answer is that Lotro is applying a a new paradigm to the game, one that has not been the paradigm of past years, and is expecting everyone to like it - and, clearly, not everyone does.

    For those who like a challenge (and there is no "challenge" to the game unless you put it there), double-xp makes that, the task of creating/maintaining a challenge, more difficult (if not impossible) in itself. The whole game suddenly becomes trivial - that's the term Lotro uses for grey monsters, right?

    For those who don't care about end-game or even "*ding* Level!", and want to take their time and enjoy each region at-level, again, too bad - you're going to out-level your current region whether you try to or not.

    Now, for those who do like it - hey, great, honestly happy for you - I wish you could find some empathy in your hearts for those whose game and "fun" just got jerked out from under them. I mean, how would you feel if Lotro did have a month of "half-xp"? You know it would be popular with some players, just not you...


    I guess my biggest concern is that this seems to reflect a recent pattern of such, of shifting away from "Enjoy the story, experience Middle Earth!" to "Race to endgame!" - a serious shift in design and marketing philosophy that, I believe, does not reflect the type of player that Lotro had - past tense - had been targeting until recently, and that the game simply does not seem designed for. Lotro will never have the hard-core gamer challenge of, say, DDO* - so why shift models when the platform won't support it, when the gamer base you've cultivated over years won't (all) enjoy it?

    (* Dungeons and Dragons Online, another popular WB MMORPG, but very diff in mechanic and player-dynamic, that presents very difficult instances ("dungeons") at-level, expects some repetitive "dungeon crawling" to level, punishes over-level play (with significantly lower xp), and strongly rewards end-game achievement.)

    And the dull, predictable response of "Anyone who doesn't like it doesn't have to play" ignores the fact that - for years, it's been the other way around. The entire player base that has been on this site since its start has stayed with the "world immersion" approach, and changing that now significantly and seriously changes that. Yes, anyone can leave - my question is, does Lotro understand their decisions are inviting them to?


    Me? I hate the forced double-xp - I'm going to park my permanent alts for the next month, and IF I do play I'll just grind TP - that's one thing that double-xp is good for.

    Good gaming, all - whatever game you'll be enjoying between now and Nov 17.
    They should make a server for players who like challenge. That way players who don't want to be able to auto attack everything to death can at least have an option for stimulating gameplay.

    Seems a reasonable solution to me.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    They should make a server for players who like challenge. That way players who don't want to be able to auto attack everything to death can at least have an option for stimulating gameplay.

    Seems a reasonable solution to me.
    Not so to me. Someone will have to pay for it. I am getting what I want right now at a price I am willing to pay. I won't pay for the duplicative effort for something of no value to me. Do you and your friends have $10 million or so to do it and then supply several million a year afterwards to maintain it?

    Stimulating game play is what you make of it. High failure risk for no purpose other than wasting time is not something I call challenge. I call that tedium.
    "No sadder words of tongue or pen are the words: 'Might have been'." -- John Greenleaf Whittier
    "Do or do not. There is no try." -- Yoda
    On planet Earth, there is a try.
    Indeed, in a world and life full of change, the only constant is human nature (A is A, after all :P).
    We old vets need to keep in mind those who come after us.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdq1958 View Post
    Not so to me. Someone will have to pay for it. I am getting what I want right now at a price I am willing to pay. I won't pay for the duplicative effort for something of no value to me. Do you and your friends have $10 million or so to do it and then supply several million a year afterwards to maintain it?

    Stimulating game play is what you make of it. High failure risk for no purpose other than wasting time is not something I call challenge. I call that tedium.
    Your post makes no sense. You aren't having to pay extra for anything. You can stay on the server that allows you to auto attack everything to death.

    But for players like me - who prefer gameplay that requires a modicum of skill with an actual risk of death involved - there should be a server made available for us. And judging by the amount of posts I have seen on these forums who agree with me that the solo content on this game has become far too easy, I'm sure there would be plenty enough players to sustain a single server.

    That's the problem with people of your perspective. You aren't willing to compromise. Just because you find challenging gameplay tedious you seem to want the rest of us to have to suffer through your desired button-mashing gameplay as well. Because if anything is tedious to me, it's mindless gameplay that requires no thought or reaction.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    Your post makes no sense. You aren't having to pay extra for anything. You can stay on the server that allows you to auto attack everything to death.

    But for players like me - who prefer gameplay that requires a modicum of skill with an actual risk of death involved - there should be a server made available for us. And judging by the amount of posts I have seen on these forums who agree with me that the solo content on this game has become far too easy, I'm sure there would be plenty enough players to sustain a single server.

    That's the problem with people of your perspective. You aren't willing to compromise. Just because you find challenging gameplay tedious you seem to want the rest of us to have to suffer through your desired button-mashing gameplay as well. Because if anything is tedious to me, it's mindless gameplay that requires no thought or reaction.
    The problem is that extra servers with separate content costs a lot extra. Far more than you can reasonable expect the players that will choose to play on that server to pay. Which means that the money will have to come out of the revenue the rest of us generates - i.e. the rest of us will have to pay for it aswell. Not in a direct sense, but indirectly by resources being diverted to the special server from the general development.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    Your post makes no sense. You aren't having to pay extra for anything. You can stay on the server that allows you to auto attack everything to death.

    But for players like me - who prefer gameplay that requires a modicum of skill with an actual risk of death involved - there should be a server made available for us. And judging by the amount of posts I have seen on these forums who agree with me that the solo content on this game has become far too easy, I'm sure there would be plenty enough players to sustain a single server.

    That's the problem with people of your perspective. You aren't willing to compromise. Just because you find challenging gameplay tedious you seem to want the rest of us to have to suffer through your desired button-mashing gameplay as well. Because if anything is tedious to me, it's mindless gameplay that requires no thought or reaction.
    Well you're wrong about current gameplay being mindless unless you've done it so many times that you no longer have to think about it. That's the problem with people of your perspective. It becomes familiar to the point of being rote; so you want 'artificial' difficulty just to call it a challenge and want to blow off the rest. What you want is a niche game. Fine, so be it. That train left the station years ago.

    I refuse to allow that infection to take hold of me. I have played enough for things to be familiar, but my approach remains that of someone who can always learn something new and expects the unexpected.

    Who do you think will make this server? If it is Turbine, then you're wrong about me having to pay. I will have to pay one way or another. If it isn't Turbine, then sure. Yet your post strongly implied that Turbine will do this. That comes at a cost I am not willing to pay.

    I take those posts with the appropriate grain of salt. It is true for you and those like-minded; but not so for anyone else. Your too easy is someone else's bloody impossible. For me, the difficulty is just right.

    I don't think you're right about the number of players for such a server. If you are, put your money where your mouth is and raise it and pay the fees needed to run it. I think you're looking at a few hundred to a thousand or two hard cores and a few thousand who'll pass through. If I am wrong, fine; but experience over a decade says that I am not that wrong.
    "No sadder words of tongue or pen are the words: 'Might have been'." -- John Greenleaf Whittier
    "Do or do not. There is no try." -- Yoda
    On planet Earth, there is a try.
    Indeed, in a world and life full of change, the only constant is human nature (A is A, after all :P).
    We old vets need to keep in mind those who come after us.

 

 
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