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  1. #51
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    Oh I vote for SWIFT travel in TROLLSHAWS...in fact I vote for Swift Travel within Rivendell!

    Rivendell, bar the horrible house, looks amazing but when you have to go back and find Mr. smarty Elrond in his Library for the umpteenth time, across narrow bridges and silly falls...it really drags!

    I like many so not see the teleportation system already introduced being extended as a problem... you can always get a hunter, buy a map or simply hit a milestone skill to instantly travel to most places..why not just clean up the actual horse travel routes which I think are actually more 'realistic' in a Middle Earth kind of way!

    In a RP game you do not have to walk every single step to get somewhere...that would be really hardcore!
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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by tsunamimc View Post
    Oh I vote for SWIFT travel in TROLLSHAWS...in fact I vote for Swift Travel within Rivendell!

    Rivendell, bar the horrible house, looks amazing but when you have to go back and find Mr. smarty Elrond in his Library for the umpteenth time, across narrow bridges and silly falls...it really drags!

    I like many so not see the teleportation system already introduced being extended as a problem... you can always get a hunter, buy a map or simply hit a milestone skill to instantly travel to most places..why not just clean up the actual horse travel routes which I think are actually more 'realistic' in a Middle Earth kind of way!

    In a RP game you do not have to walk every single step to get somewhere...that would be really hardcore!
    Oh yeah and with Mithril coins you can increase the amount of teleportation destinations...

    More swift Travel destinations PLEASE!
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  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neumi View Post
    You have an opinion, that's ok. But you are trying to insult people with a different one ("go and play Star Trek"). That's not ok.
    You tell people that they should not play MMOs if they don't like to travel ... what on earth gives you the right to decide that?
    You and a few others on this forum are way too sensitive. That was not an insult. If you try super hard to be offended, chances are you will be. That's not my fault.

    And my point is if you want to instantly be beamed around the globe that is more in line with a Star Trek game. Not a game where long journeys afoot are at the very core of the source material. Pointing that out and trying to preserve what I believe makes an adventure game good (especially a LOTRO game) is not insulting people.

    And that is my opinion... that people who do not like to travel should not play a LOTRO MMORPG. You ask "What on earth gives me this right?" The fact I am an American and have freedom of expression And if you find reading my opinions insulting, I suggest you don't read them. And I don't say that with a mean spirit.

    As far as your comments about "farming". I would enjoy hunting monsters for items a lot more if the combat was interesting instead of dull and tedious. I wouldn't care if it took longer as a result. I play games to have fun. Not collect imaginary hides as quickly and efficiently as possible.
    Last edited by Jeremi; Nov 11 2013 at 03:09 PM.

  4. #54
    I get your opinion. Online games have continued to move to easy of access over the years since I started playing back in 1999. These changes are made to appeal to a larger customer base. People that have no interest in long travel time, resting, eating, sleeping, making special trips to get conditions liked diseased removed, losing experience when their character dies, stuff being put on their corpse they have to recover, penalties to your character's abilities that wear off in time or by doing some in game activity. It is a lost case unless you are willing to play a hard core game like Eve Online or Vanguard.

    Back to the subject. I do not see Trollshaws getting swift travel unless Turbine does a complete region revamp. That revamp may never occur for Trollshaws.
    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    You and a few others on this forum are way too sensitive. ...
    Nah, I rather observe. After all you didn't tell that to me and I still think you are insultive.Didn't you say some posts ago that you were banned for a few days? That could imply that at least moderator shares my opinion.

    Anyway, I think the more options we have in the game, the happier people become. Limiteing gameplay will just produce more bored people and bored people leave.

    I assume you are using some of these options as well (instance finder, home ports, reputation ports, and yes: also quick travel, from Bree to Snowbourn for example), even if you claim they are bad for the game.

    I for my part try to enjoy the game, that's why I try to keep the boring parts of the game as short as possible, that includes farming hides and using long travel routes. Sometimes I still take a ride (manually) through the Trollshaws because it's a great area, but most people just avoid the Trollshaws because it's such a pain going there.
    Last edited by Neumi; Nov 12 2013 at 04:52 AM.

  6. #56
    there is no 'right' way to play this game. to each his own. some like to run/walk everywhere? more power to them. some like to be beamed across the map to the next quest objective? great.

    people need to get out of the habit of thinking they know how everyone else should play, that the way they play is the only 'right' way to play based on whatever mis-guided principles they are using, be it lore or whatnot.

    as has been mentioned, turbine has the challenge of making a game that is appealing to the broadest group possible. in today's world/economy it's the only way to stay profitable.

    so arguing/discussing things like 'i think it should be this way' is pointless in a forum setting. best find someone in game that shares your same style of play and quest/adventure with them.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neumi View Post
    Nah, I rather observe. After all you didn't tell that to me and I still think you are insultive.Didn't you say some posts ago that you were banned for a few days? That could imply that at least moderator shares my opinion.

    Anyway, I think the more options we have in the game, the happier people become. Limiteing gameplay will just produce more bored people and bored people leave.

    I assume you are using some of these options as well (instance finder, home ports, reputation ports, and yes: also quick travel, from Bree to Snowbourn for example), even if you claim they are bad for the game.

    I for my part try to enjoy the game, that's why I try to keep the boring parts of the game as short as possible, that includes farming hides and using long travel routes. Sometimes I still take a ride (manually) through the Trollshaws because it's a great area, but most people just avoid the Trollshaws because it's such a pain going there.
    lol yes... I was banned, but only for a day. But what I said on that occasion was far more offensive than suggesting players who want to instantly warp around the planet should go play a game like Star Trek instead of a LOTRO MMORPG. That's not very insulting at all. And I remain convinced if you found it so, you are way too sensitive

    But anyway, your post misses what I was trying to do in this thread. Rather than making players be able to instantly skip over the boring parts, why not scale the content to where it isn't boring in the first place. That way players wouldn't want to skip over it.

    I loved exploring the Trollshaws (it really is a beautiful zone) back in the older days when leveling up wasn't at light-speed and the combat actually required me present at the keyboard and quests gave me useful and meaningful rewards.

    I am prescribing a different solution for the problem at hand. Making something easier or faster is not always the best way to fix something.
    Last edited by Jeremi; Nov 12 2013 at 03:56 PM.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldensilence View Post
    there is no 'right' way to play this game. to each his own. some like to run/walk everywhere? more power to them. some like to be beamed across the map to the next quest objective? great.

    people need to get out of the habit of thinking they know how everyone else should play, that the way they play is the only 'right' way to play based on whatever mis-guided principles they are using, be it lore or whatnot.

    as has been mentioned, turbine has the challenge of making a game that is appealing to the broadest group possible. in today's world/economy it's the only way to stay profitable.

    so arguing/discussing things like 'i think it should be this way' is pointless in a forum setting. best find someone in game that shares your same style of play and quest/adventure with them.
    Well I disagree.

    I think allowing players to instantly teleport around the globe should not be part of any LOTRO MMORPG. Adventuring across Middleearth is just too much at the core of what makes LOTRO what it is. To compromise that aspect and turn LOTRO into a "theme-park" style MMORPG is destructive.

    And it's not so much about a right or a wrong way to "play" the game. It's about a right way and a wrong way to "design" a game.

    Traveling should be a huge part of LOTRO's over-all gameplay. It's at the very heart of what makes the novels great and what makes an adventure game and adventure game. To neglect that and make it an optional frill players can easily bypass adds to the ruination of this game. It would be far better to improve upon the traveling aspects of this game and make it more dynamic experience players wouldn't want to skip over to begin with.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty View Post
    I get your opinion. Online games have continued to move to easy of access over the years since I started playing back in 1999. These changes are made to appeal to a larger customer base. People that have no interest in long travel time, resting, eating, sleeping, making special trips to get conditions liked diseased removed, losing experience when their character dies, stuff being put on their corpse they have to recover, penalties to your character's abilities that wear off in time or by doing some in game activity. It is a lost case unless you are willing to play a hard core game like Eve Online or Vanguard.

    Back to the subject. I do not see Trollshaws getting swift travel unless Turbine does a complete region revamp. That revamp may never occur for Trollshaws.
    I think it's an exaggeration to compare traveling through the Trollshaws to eating and sleeping.

    I am not advocating turbine include trips to the bathroom here.

    But the trip to Rivendale was a significant part of the LOTRO experience. When you slice out the need to actually traverse the world of an MMORPG you squander the world itself.

    Exploring Middle Earth should not be done in seconds via a loading screen. Like I said previously, the solution here is not to enable the instant skipping of Middleearth. The solution is to improve Middlearth to where players wouldn't want to skip over it to begin with.

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    Well I disagree.
    of course you do :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post

    I think allowing players to instantly teleport around the globe should not be part of any LOTRO MMORPG. Adventuring across Middleearth is just too much at the core of what makes LOTRO what it is. To compromise that aspect and turn LOTRO into a "theme-park" style MMORPG is destructive.

    And it's not so much about a right or a wrong way to "play" the game. It's about a right way and a wrong way to "design" a game.

    Traveling should be a huge part of LOTRO's over-all gameplay. It's at the very heart of what makes the novels great and what makes an adventure game and adventure game. To neglect that and make it an optional frill players can easily bypass adds to the ruination of this game. It would be far better to improve upon the traveling aspects of this game and make it more dynamic experience players wouldn't want to skip over to begin with.
    again, YOU think "allowing players to instantly teleport around the globe should not be part of any LOTRO MMORPG". others don't think so. and for you to imply that you know better how I should play the game doesn't sit well with me. i'm an extremely casual player with extremely limited play time. at times, i enjoy being able to port to where i need to go (rohan to forochel for instance). if that feature were not available, with my limited play time, i personally would find it very difficult to advance at all. if i can't advance, why play/support this game?

    again, the option is there. YOU don't have to port anywhere. others would enjoy being able to travel more quickly through area's of the world. nothing wrong with either approach. wanna know why? cause it's a GAME.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    But the trip to Rivendale was a significant part of the LOTRO experience.
    Yes it is, which is why IMO the system works well, most of the time. You have to travel to that place before there's an option otherwise. Unless you're willing to play mithral coins that is. Myself I think the swift travel with out having been there first is a bad idea, but after having been there once or twice before, there is simply no need to recreate the journey again.

    As you point out, travel is a big part of the LotR books, but even then they skip over parts of it. JRR didn't record the whole trip back to the Shire after the Hobits were done at Mt. Doom. So it's actually keeping with the spirit of LotR to allow people to skip over travel times. Most of the books deal with the adventures the fellowship had, it was not simply a travelog.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldensilence View Post



    again, YOU think "allowing players to instantly teleport around the globe should not be part of any LOTRO MMORPG". others don't think so. and for you to imply that you know better how I should play the game doesn't sit well with me. .
    Well you are claiming you know better by allowing it to happen.

    I don't see any difference in the two.

    There is no need to try and characterize a difference in opinion as something more than it is.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solarfox View Post

    As you point out, travel is a big part of the LotR books, but even then they skip over parts of it. JRR didn't record the whole trip back to the Shire after the Hobits were done at Mt. Doom. .
    Well that is probably because Saruman was defeated and the roads were safe again. It would have made for a boring book to record in whole the un-eventful parts of the journey. Which actually goes to my point.

    That is why players want to skip over the areas. Because they become boring and un-eventful. If you change that, players wouldn't want to skip over them.

  14. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    I think it's an exaggeration to compare traveling through the Trollshaws to eating and sleeping.
    No it not. It is the same thing. Wasted time that you are not playing the game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    I am not advocating turbine include trips to the bathroom here.
    This kind of functionality was pre Lotro time wastage. Must carry food. Must eat. Bad things happen if you do not eat.

    For maximum pleasure, you should have played EverQuest. You have to get across the ocean. There was only one boat. It was an hour round trip for the boat. You arrive at the dock. You might have to wait 20 minutes for the boat to arrive. Board. Wait five minutes for loading an unloading. Off you go on a 25 minute trip. Make sure no to go overboard because the fishes would eat you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    But the trip to Rivendale was a significant part of the LOTRO experience. When you slice out the need to actually traverse the world of an MMORPG you squander the world itself.
    You are entitled to your opinion. A lot of people do not agree with it. The game has changed over the years especially as the landscape has expanded.

    Even back when the game was new in 2007, people would pay for a taxi to Rivendell or Esteldin. There used to be no swift travel to Esteldin or Tinnudir. Rivendell was a pain in the tail unless you were something like 40 when the swift travel unlocked. Otherwise it slow travel to Ost Guruth. From there to Thorenhad. From there to Rivendell. It was very painful.

    We get mounts as soon as you finish the starter experience. Level 5-8 if you want them. I still walk until 20 because I am a lifer. I wait for the VIP free riding skill.

    Now you can buy a recall to Rivendell from the Lotro Store. Not even bother with the trip. I went to Rivendell with my scholar on foot at 15 or so. No horse until 35.

    I can't imagine customers putting up with long trips like I did in early Asheron's Call. I wanted to get to Ayan Bayan to tie. It took me close to 8 real time hours to get to the coast. Run along the shore line. I can't remember whether I went to the beach on the east coast at Eastam. I went cross country to the north shore. AB is on the middle west coat. I hard to go half way to north shore. All the way west. Down half way to AB. I had been killed it would have been back to some place like Cragstone. Another try at 5-8 hours.

    Even in the books Tolkien skips over a lot of travel. The books read like "Important stuff happens here". Swift Travel. "New location - Important stuff happens here". The distance covered in the Swift Travel is quite large in some cases. As noted one big ones at the end is the Hobbits trip back to The Shire. We pick up at the "What happened to our home when we were gone?"
    Last edited by Yula_the_Mighty; Nov 12 2013 at 06:02 PM.
    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty View Post
    No it not. It is the same thing. Wasted time that you are not playing the game.This kind of functionality was pre Lotro time wastage. Must carry food. Must eat. Bad things happen if you do not eat.?
    But it IS playing the game.

    If exploring and traveling across Middlearth is not considered "playing" the game then nothing is. It's at the heart and soul of what makes an adventure game, especially one modeled after Lord of the Rings. If you cut that part out, you might as well scrap the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty View Post
    For maximum pleasure, you should have played EverQuest. You have to get across the ocean. There was only one boat. It was an hour round trip for the boat. You arrive at the dock. You might have to wait 20 minutes for the boat to arrive. Board. Wait five minutes for loading an unloading. Off you go on a 25 minute trip. Make sure no to go overboard because the fishes would eat you.You are entitled to your opinion. A lot of people do not agree with it. The game has changed over the years especially as the landscape has expanded..
    I don't understand what taking a one hour boat trip in Everquest has to do with what I am suggesting.

    You seem to equate traveling through Middleearth with some masochistic desire for me to cause myself pain for pleasure and I don't understand why. Exploring Middlearth COULD be fun. It would require some tweaking and altering of the existing content, but it could be done. And I think that's the better way to go about it rather just making it easy to instantly skip most of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty View Post
    Even back when the game was new in 2007, people would pay for a taxi to Rivendell or Esteldin. There used to be no swift travel to Esteldin or Tinnudir. Rivendell was a pain in the tail unless you were something like 40 when the swift travel unlocked. Otherwise it slow travel to Ost Guruth. From there to Thorenhad. From there to Rivendell. It was very painful.
    .?

    What I am suggesting isn't something that was in the game before. This isn't one of my nostalgia rants. Zones becoming boring and useless has always been an issue in LOTRO, though it was less of a problem in the older days by the simple fact you didn't level up at lightning speeds.
    Last edited by Jeremi; Nov 12 2013 at 08:23 PM.

  16. #66
    yes please, agree with the OP

    Also, after reading some posts, I just feel the need to say this: This is probably the only MMO that has members with such an aversion to QoL changes. It's amusing.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    ...If exploring and traveling across Middlearth is not considered "playing" the game then nothing is...
    I won't object that. But using swift travels also is playing the game.
    It's a gameplay mechanic, we use it => it's playing the game.

    Removing swift travels is removing a part of the game.
    Adding swift travels won't change anything for those who don't want to use them.

    Just because it's "Lord of the Rings" does not mean that we should rob through the world on our hands and kneels. We are free to do so if we want to, but we should not be forced to do so.




    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    ...
    But anyway, your post misses what I was trying to do in this thread.
    It's easy to miss the point of your suggestion, because it's a pointless suggestion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    Rather than making players be able to instantly skip over the boring parts, why not scale the content to where it isn't boring in the first place.
    Easy: Because the one thing has nothing to do with the other. We also have quick travels in end game areas and we use them often.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    That way players wouldn't want to skip over it.
    ...
    But we already do. Go and see how many quick travel routes there are in Rohan.

    Having a quick travel option does not mean to skip the content, it just means to shorten travel time. Some use it, some don't. Everyone to his own.


    You really don't get it, do you? We don't use quick travels because the content is boring (I personally don't think it's boring). Having a quick travel option does not mean to skip the content, it means that we have an option to save travel time, no more, no less.



    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    I am prescribing a different solution for the problem at hand. Making something easier or faster is not always the best way to fix something.
    The problem at hand is that traveling throught the Trollshaws takes too much time. How would that get fixed by adding high level monsters?
    Last edited by Neumi; Nov 13 2013 at 02:51 AM.

  18. #68
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    never mind

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neumi View Post
    never mind
    Great Album
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  20. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    Well you are claiming you know better by allowing it to happen.

    I don't see any difference in the two.

    There is no need to try and characterize a difference in opinion as something more than it is.
    where/when did i claim to know better? for the record, here's what i said: "again, the option is there. YOU don't have to port anywhere. others would enjoy being able to travel more quickly through area's of the world. nothing wrong with either approach."

    so, if nothing is wrong with either approach how does that equate to me claiming one is better? as i mentioned, personally i use both methods. depends on the situation and how much play time i have left and what i'm trying to accomplish. most times i like to run/ride to where i'm going but if i'm trying to finish something before logging off and it's a long run, i might port. that's me. i'm sure others use similar methods. good for them. nothing wrong with having a 'hard core run everywhere fight everything' approach either.

    i'm not the one trying to tell anyone else how they should play their game. 'others' (*cough*you*cough*) are doing that.

    and while it is true, it is nothing more than a difference of opinion, i'm not trying to convince anyone that it should be one way or the other. i like that people have the option, that the choice is there.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    If exploring and traveling across Middlearth is not considered "playing" the game then nothing is. It's at the heart and soul of what makes an adventure game, especially one modeled after Lord of the Rings.
    The Heart and soul of an 'Adventure game' is er having 'Adventures', it does not really matter if that adventure starts instantly (skirmish/raid/instance) or is walked to (indeed for some that is another adventure in itself, which may be what you are referring to) but in such an unrestrictive play environment that is LOTRO, we can choose to make our own adventures however we want as long as it doesn't impact on others and spoil their adventures...

    Its getting rather heated in here, I hope I am not throwing fuel on the fire...

    Getting back to point of the Thread...

    Getting around Trollshaws can be a pain for some players (self included) and I would love to see more swift travel routes created here...also an area revamp...digressing but will finish...as it does have some amazing LOTR interaction that shouldn't be missed by any LOTRO player.
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  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    That is why players want to skip over the areas. Because they become boring and un-eventful.
    I don't think anyone actually wants to skip over areas. They just don't want to have to spend 5-15 minutes traveling from point A to point B, when the only reason is to get to B. If I'm doing a quest and it send me to Rivendell to talk to Elrond, I don't want to have to spend 10+ minutes riding though the trollshaws just to click 'finish' on a quest dialog box, then go to where ever the quest sends me.

    Having critters scale up isn't going to change this in the least. It's not that riding though the trollshaws is boring, it's that it wastes my time because the only reason I'm there is to talk to Elrond.

    In fact quite often the non-swift travel options you don't even see anything along the road anyway. So you are traveling on safe roads, just like the Hobbits did at the end of LotR. As such there's no reason I should have to watch my character ride over the landscape for 5-15 minutes, espeically when I'm not going to get attacked in the first place.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neumi View Post
    I won't object that. But using swift travels also is playing the game.
    It's a gameplay mechanic, we use it => it's playing the game.

    Removing swift travels is removing a part of the game.
    Adding swift travels won't change anything for those who don't want to use them.

    Just because it's "Lord of the Rings" does not mean that we should rob through the world on our hands and kneels. We are free to do so if we want to, but we should not be forced to do so.]

    I really wouldn't consider watching a loading screen "playing" the game.

    And I was never advocating forcing players to crawl around Middle Earth. What I am advocating is instead of adding swift travel, the better solution would be to make the journey through the Trollshaws more enjoyable, worthwhile, and fun. Then players wouldn't want to skip over it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Neumi View Post
    It's easy to miss the point of your suggestion, because it's a pointless suggestion..
    What ever...

    I fail to see how my suggestion is "pointless". Scaling the landscape content and making traveling more fun would do wonders for this game. A lot more than adding more instant travel loading screens so the game can get boring even faster. That's what is actually "pointless" if you ask me.

    Bottom line: if players want to skip over it, then there is a problem. And just making it easier to freely skip over it does nothing but accentuate the problem.



    Quote Originally Posted by Neumi View Post
    You really don't get it, do you? We don't use quick travels because the content is boring (I personally don't think it's boring). Having a quick travel option does not mean to skip the content, it means that we have an option to save travel time, no more, no less.

    ?[/B]
    You're wrong about that. A lot of people want to skip it because it's boring and does them no good. So I would say it's you who don't get it.

    If the journey through trollshaws remained fun and rewarding a lot of players wouldn't mind doing it.
    Last edited by Jeremi; Nov 13 2013 at 01:32 PM.

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solarfox View Post
    I don't think anyone actually wants to skip over areas. They just don't want to have to spend 5-15 minutes traveling from point A to point B, when the only reason is to get to B. .
    And I think you're wrong about that.

    A lot of people (myself included) wouldn't mind spending 15 minutes traveling from point A to B if it was actually fun to do it.

    What makes me want to skip a zone is when I out-level it to the point it is boring to fight in and none of the quests give me anything of worth.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldensilence View Post
    where/when did i claim to know better? for the record, here's what i said: "again, the option is there. YOU don't have to port anywhere. others would enjoy being able to travel more quickly through area's of the world. nothing wrong with either approach."

    .
    You are claiming to know better because you are saying the game is best when both options are made available. It's essentially the same thing.

 

 
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