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  1. #26


    It bugs me that this image is almost completely without context. I see the player has gone down one tree completely but we're unable to see how many points they have left or what level the character is. The most troubling part is that the ...odd... cropping makes it seem like it's intentional. But, to be optimistic, it may be a simple matter of the changes still being in flux.

  2. #27
    Well, you can say it's an improvement if you don't change your traits out every time you run something. Most of my kin is spec'ed maybe two ways, and for them (and myself) it'll be an improvement to change on the fly between the two. I do see your point that if you are constantly fiddling with your traits, it's going to be a hassle, since they did confirm that you can't just change one or two things in your line if you want to change - you'd have to repick the entire tree. I would guess the hope there is that the reductions of skills would make it so you shouldn't have to tweek every little setting every time. But, that's probably also up to personal gameplay...

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    414
    Quote Originally Posted by Nilatir View Post


    It bugs me that this image is almost completely without context. I see the player has gone down one tree completely but we're unable to see how many points they have left or what level the character is. The most troubling part is that the ...odd... cropping makes it seem like it's intentional. But, to be optimistic, it may be a simple matter of the changes still being in flux.
    well from counting those points up they have spent 43 points, the massively article states we will have 60-65 points total so that means the player in the example has 17-22 points left (and he hasnt even opened up all his skills in the first line yet either)
    now as the first 2 skills in both the other 2 lines cost 5 points each to max them (assuming there is no penalty for spending points in a second line that is )it doesnt seem to me we are gonna be able to get very far down a second or third line at all

    edit:- just re-read the article it seems it will cost twice as much to spend points in a second line after all so that 17-22 is actually 8.5-11 points left in reality, meaning best case scenario we can only just max the first 2 lines of a second tree but go no further, worst case i.e 60 points we cant even do that
    Last edited by Andthelion; Oct 18 2013 at 02:32 PM.

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    153
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    You get two save slots for free and you can purchase additional slots if you wish. I believe you can currently purchase 3 more for a total of 5.
    Are these slots being sold as per character or will it be account wide?
    Ignore the Store

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    8,694
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragnipurake View Post
    1. Some old wisdom Turbine seems to have never heard of: Never change a running system!!!
    They've done this before. In fact every MMO has done this before. Players even asked for changes in the past. Class revamps and skill changes are just something you hate but have to deal with everywhere. I've never been in an MMO that didn't periodically shake things up in big ways.

    We had big changes with Moria. We have had month-of for awhile early on. We had a major revamp of what stats do and which classes use what stats. We've also had some very giant changes in Minstrel and Warden at least with Isengard. The level of panic of these class changes surprises me, especially when I this coming from long term players who've been through it all before.

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    8,694
    Quote Originally Posted by DelgonTheWise View Post
    I'd bet the vast majority of players in game very rarely visit a bard.
    Ya, I agree there. They have made this harder than it used to be though; before Moria you could pick a general build that was good for soloing and good for grouping for most classes, meaning you could join a PUG at a moment's notice.

    Since then though, I would think that even for people who like to group a lot, most still stick with just two builds. Solo build versus grouping build, and maybe a set of gear for each. There are some however that want more than this, but they tend to be the minority and extremely dedicated and own more than two sets of gear. Not just a third build of PvP, i've seen one guy who had two different PvE tanking set ups.

    But those players are almost always VIPs, who also get 500 TP a month, and they do not seem the sort of players in my experience who spend all their TP on cosmetic horses.

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1
    I'm one of those people that never used to retrait. My main is a mini traited for heals, so I can always join any group without having to go find a bard. The thing is, in this heal build I can also easily solo through the landscape content, because eventhough I am in healspec I can still use my DPS skills when I enter warspeech. Same thing for certain raids (i.e. BfE) where I could start out helping as DPS and when things got dicy drop warspeech and start healing. Or in easier group content, be in harmony and heal the group while DPS'ing and than simply dropping harmony as soon as full heals were needed. I'm afraid I will now have to constantly be retraiting to do what I was used to (and wait to be out of combat to do so). I will surely miss having all my skills available at all times. Cause I seriously doubt that a heal speced mini will have enough DPS skills to even solo landscape mobs.

    So for me personally, I will not pre-order HD. I wish we were given much more info on these trait trees, like with Isengard and the mini changes. I will first have to see what these class changes are like, because if they screw up my mini too much I guess Turbine lost a customer. For now I have dropped VIP, and will just have to wait and see what comes around at nov 18th.

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    12,677
    Quote Originally Posted by jparker View Post
    People want content ,raids and other group runs.
    Content, yes. Story, yes. New features... yes. And at least short term, I expect the class revamps will get me to pull out various characters I haven't played in years now. Long term... no idea.

    As for raids and group runs, obviously some people want those. To me, they're almost completely irrelevant. I might run an "Epic Battle" with 1-2 friends now and again, but that's it.

    Khafar

  9. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Lohi View Post
    ...The level of panic of these class changes surprises me, especially when I this coming from long term players who've been through it all before.
    No surprise there. Some of the most unreasonable opponents (vs. those argueing with a reasoned opinion) against the Euro introduction in my country were the people that, depending on their age and region, had already gone through 4-7 currency changes in their lifetime - all of them beneficial in some way.

    The phrase "never touch a running system/never change a winning team" only applies if the weaknesses of that system are negligible vs. the benefit. I dont know if the new system will be better before trying. I dont know if Turbine is capable to pull this off. But I know that the old system reached the end of its useful lifetime years ago.

    Turbine switched to an almost exclusively gear-based character development some time ago. Then, the stat and item revamp made gear powerful, but the choice essentially boring. Lets hope this new thing can shake things up in the opposite direction again. Iam however still extremely nervous that Turbine sees itself unable or unwilling to show a working example to the public at large at this point in time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wulffren View Post
    ... I will surely miss having all my skills available at all times. Cause I seriously doubt that a heal speced mini will have enough DPS skills to even solo landscape mobs. ...
    Yes, you will lose acess to all skills, but also because many of them wont even exist anymore.
    However, the new quick-build-change will technically make it easier for you to "landscape", at least in theory and if Turbine continues their wussification of landscape, as is expected.
    Last edited by Vandervahn; Oct 19 2013 at 05:52 AM.

  10. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Gohankuten View Post
    Builds as in 2 different set-ups of traits that you put together that you can switch on the fly instead of having to go in and replace stuff one at a time. So it is actually an improvement to current where you have to go to a bard, rearrange traits one at a time, and then pay the bard to finalize it.
    signed...........

  11. #36
    From a player perspective I do not buy the "bloated" comment. If you feel "bloated" now, just remove some skills from your bars. You do not have to use all the skills you have earned. I personally like having options available and do not want to be squeezed into someone else's vision on how to play, or be limited to a single role in combat.

    I really am not happy with mounted combat and only use it when necessary. A few skills, just click, yawn, click, wait for cool down, click, yawn. There is no thought or strategy in it at all, other than keep moving. It seems we are moving in the same direction with this.

    If they want skill trees do a REAL skill tree. A real skill tree is complex and can have a 100 or more skills. I can think of two recent games that have it right (not sure I am allowed to mention by name). ADD 50 more skills and let us build the tree as desired. Trying to fit current skills/traits into a extremely simple tree will only take away from what we have now.

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Sylvan kingdom
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    707
    Quote Originally Posted by DelgonTheWise View Post
    I'd bet the vast majority of players in game very rarely visit a bard. They pick some traits/virtues and are happy with them. When they earn some new traits levelling maybe they go and slot them (though I see some people with empty slots, believe it or not). Heck, I do raiding and moors and solo on my capt, and don't have more than a few setups I use for basically everything. 2 is a bit skimpy, but again most folks will be content with it. I'll probably go for 4, but I have lifer TPs to use for such conveniences.

    And welcome to the F2P model. This one really does fit the now somewhat abandoned "convenience, not advantage" mantra. Having more that 2 basically gives you no "advantages" in ability to complete content, but is potentially convenient...
    I watched the little Helm's Deep video they had linked from the main page yesterday. They were in Gondomon and were running a Champ I think. Anyway, they had him in one mode and then shift to another spec 'out of combat' but right before the end boss drake and Dourhand. And I'm sitting there going... WHAT? Swapping between enemies? Is that what I'm going to have to do now? Seriously?

    I'm one of those folks who has my traits just the way I like them. On my now 85 Hunter and 85 RK, do you know how many times I've changed my class traits in two years? Twice. Didn't like it, switched it back. It's been that way ever since.

    And now to beat a skirmish, I'm expected to juggle traits within the span of the same skirmish? No thanks. I can see re-speccing for maybe a raid if they need a certain functionality and all that. But within the same instance? Multiple times? What the heck is that?

    Oh hey, I know this skill... oh wait, I forgot it again, and remembered this one. Oh wait, I remembered the other one again and forgot this one. Oh wait, I remembered that other one again...

    Homogenization eh? How is being a jack of ALL possible trades in the same skirmish/instance/raid and yet being restricted as to what you can have on your bar any improvement whatsoever. You haven't changed a darn thing to eliminate 'cookie cutter' builds, you've just made it more of a pain to access and imo exponentially worse.

    I really want to spend each instance constantly re-traiting on the fly for each mob. That just screams fun, doesn't it? Not only do I find it impractical and annoying, but flat out ridiculous on it's head. Great system, folks.
    Last edited by Kaynith; Oct 19 2013 at 10:43 AM.

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
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    4,334
    Quote Originally Posted by Lohi View Post
    Ya, I agree there. They have made this harder than it used to be though; before Moria you could pick a general build that was good for soloing and good for grouping for most classes, meaning you could join a PUG at a moment's notice.

    Since then though, I would think that even for people who like to group a lot, most still stick with just two builds. Solo build versus grouping build, and maybe a set of gear for each. There are some however that want more than this, but they tend to be the minority and extremely dedicated and own more than two sets of gear. Not just a third build of PvP, i've seen one guy who had two different PvE tanking set ups.

    But those players are almost always VIPs, who also get 500 TP a month, and they do not seem the sort of players in my experience who spend all their TP on cosmetic horses.
    I used to visit the bard 2-3 times a day and never objected. I traited how I wanted depending on if I was in the moors (solo or healing), solo landscape, doing 3-6 mans with kinmates, or raid healing. The nice thing was being able to pick and choose whatever I wanted to use in extremely wide variety. I didn't have skill bloat, I had choice and flexibility and I was never cookie cutter. I could run the gamut on if I traited 5b/2y, 6b/1r, 4b/2y/1r, 5r/2b, 5b/2r .... To me more is better.

    I spent my 500 tp a month (on all 3 accounts) on LI consumables like legacies, scrolls, crystals, as well as on other consumables like deed enhancers, pots, fill-in-what-appealed-to-me. I routinely spent money on that tp because I did regular raiding and had multiple alts. (Last count was 8 at 85, 2 stayed at 75, littler ones didn't spend much tp.) I won't be pre-ordering this expansion but will wait til my TP catches up and I can buy it that way. No sense buying a pig in a poke. Might be something wrong with the pig.
    I'd explain it to you, but I'm all out of Puppets and Crayons.
    ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
    GLADDEN SERVER
    Moochy, 105 Minstrel R10

  14. #39
    This is a mostly negative post so be warned, but I am not without hope for the future.

    I left the game for over a year now, mainly because my hunter became too weak to complete instances. Basically, when it was level 30 I could solo instance A with moderate difficulty. I might even raise the difficulty and use every trick in the book, and still usually succeed. The game was fun and rewarding. At around level 70 I went back to attempt instance A again to harvest LI stuff, and I found that even when the difficulty was LOWERED, I was too weak. Sure I used all the tricks and made sure I had the best gear, still too weak. That was very frustrating for me, and so I quit. It's worth noting that I just never was on board with a lot of the game mechanics designed for LOTRO, but I put up with everything for the love of Middle Earth and the great job they did with most other areas (music, art, story, etc.).

    The Helm's Deep update might bring me back. I DL'd the game again and I'll put The Secret World aside to revisit my beloved Middle Earth, and really give the new class look a chance. I really hate the Legendary Item system and I hope they retool that as well, but most of all I want the game to be fun for me again. I forged a few friendships and had a lot of fun playing the game for many years. Things change, Turbine Points (awful), nerfed classes (why) but the devs seem to want to keep fighting. Mounted combat was a success in my opinion, and the re-tooling of the classes will be a success and add if that is what it will take to make the game fun again i will try it!

  15. #40

    Thumbs up Found a video of some of the changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Andthelion View Post
    well from counting those points up they have spent 43 points, the massively article states we will have 60-65 points total so that means the player in the example has 17-22 points left (and he hasnt even opened up all his skills in the first line yet either)
    now as the first 2 skills in both the other 2 lines cost 5 points each to max them (assuming there is no penalty for spending points in a second line that is )it doesnt seem to me we are gonna be able to get very far down a second or third line at all

    edit:- just re-read the article it seems it will cost twice as much to spend points in a second line after all so that 17-22 is actually 8.5-11 points left in reality, meaning best case scenario we can only just max the first 2 lines of a second tree but go no further, worst case i.e 60 points we cant even do that
    Just ran across this in another thread:

    This actually shows a lot more info than the screenshots from Massively do.

  16. #41
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,587
    Quote Originally Posted by Lohi View Post
    especially when I this coming from long term players who've been through it all before.
    Perhaps that's the point, maybe we're sick of change for changes sake.

  17. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by undying_101 View Post
    its the exact same skill tree sysem wich is used in TOR, Rift, RaiderZ and so on
    the Mission of making lotro the most generic copycat MMO outthere wich is always one and a half year behind everyone else ... accomplished

    look at he c.rapp.y revamp, look at the ugly Expansion, look at the disgusting new Forum ... please remove the term `Lord of the rings`from
    the title of this game ... what an insul for the greatest Fantasy saga of our time ... and after you removed it People will realise
    what broken unenjoyable game was hiding the last 3 years behind the mighty Name LOTRO and that its worth nothing without the franchise
    OUCH!

    That would put a dev on suicide watch!

 

 
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