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  1. #26
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    Mar 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moskvich View Post
    ...So, what's up with inviting only female characters to join a kinship? and what, in the name of wonder, is up with the cold kinship invite?? It's a small sample - a sample of me - but I'm wondering whether others have had a similar experience...
    Yes and no.

    First, I think you're right that a combo of youth and social inexperience (and general youthful over-exuberance) is to blame for most blunt invites. (Better than a true "blind" invite, where the invite pop-up simply appears without comment - joy.) They mean well, they just don't know any better.

    I run a female elf when I run a TP farmer - it's a change of pace, something different than my mostly male alts (and better scenery than watching the backside of a dwarf). And since she only lasts a couple days I never bother to join my Kin with her, so she (in her various incarnations - close to 30 now?) gets "propositioned" to join kins on a regular basis. But my male characters are all in Kins, so... who knows?

    And, yeah, you are a rather small sample pool, even "those people who respond here" are hardly a meaningfully valid cross-section, but I'd think that with some (much) younger and over-enthusiastic (and under-experienced) players there may be some gender bias. I don't think I'd be going out on a limb to say that it's a mostly male player-base, and (newsflash) males tend to be attracted to female examples of the species. It's quite possible that a "female form" grabs a male's attention just a little more, even at the unconscious level, and so those kin-less characters are propositioned more often without any intent behind it. <shrugs> But so what? I mean... whadya expect, some fantasy world where everyone's treated as an equal?

    If it becomes irritating enough, there are many "zero-expectation" kins one can join, turn off /kinchat in your /chat box, and never look back. Good gaming!

  2. #27
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    Leveling up a champ since returning to the game recently, I've received cold kinship invites on the average of one per day - two or more if I'm hanging around Bree. I figured it was mostly new kinships trying to reach the survival threshold, and therefore not particular about who they were romancing.

    It did get irritating, so I came up with a better solution (to my own twisted mind) than the game's - I activated the champ title "raging frenzy" and then bought my own kinship document and named the kinship "Kinless Sociopaths". (I buy a new document every few days when the time limit runs out.) It worked; no more invites, and people generally put twenty feet of virtual distance around me, even in crowded places like the AH. I became what I beheld, and I am content....

    So if you're on Brandywine and you see a handsome, older elf who has intricate conversations with himself and seems to be the only member of Kinless Sociopaths, say hello - carefully - but don't ask to join.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moskvich View Post
    I'd be curious whether anyone reading this would be willing to admit to *using* the cold kinship invite - and would be willing to report on how effective it's been?
    I admit to using cold kinship invites in the past and it's my pleasure to report the results.

    I am not a "gamer" at all and lotro is my first and only computer game of any kind since Minesweeper on Windows 95. So as much of a MMO noob as I was when I joined this, I simply didn't know any better. Someone ninja-invited me to a random kinship when I was level 9 (and I mean the random pop-up invite, not even bothering to /tell me about it), I accepted it in my naivete and ignorance. Got a welcome or two, got told what kinships are about ("helping each other" etc), ok it sounded like a decent idea so I went with it. To cut long story short, this kinship was created by - and was filled by - immature individuals of indeterminable age lacking any etiquete but not lacking big egos, which they sought to bloat by constantly filling the kin chat with their latest "devastating hit" numbers, talking trash about Moors activity, bragging about shiny gear etc. We all know the types I mean. One time I actually needed help with a quest (a nooby Epic prologue escort quest, my NPC kept dying - but hey I was a brand new player), so I asked in kin chat whether anyone can help out. Some level-75-er promised to come help if I wait a few minutes. I stand by and wait. A dozen of minutes passes. I send a follow-up question to this guy in kin chat and he tells me to wait some more as he's got his hands full dishing out some pain to some drakes in "end game". I wait some more. Then I wait some more. Then I wait some more. Then I get tired of waiting and complete the quest on my own, that kid never having shown up. Why volunteer to help now if you're busy with something else? I guess it was for the sake of mouthing off about those drakes. I wasted 40 minutes (!) of my game time on this nonsense, and this told me all I need to know.

    Then I made a second character, and predictably received another cold kinship invite - again the pop-up kind that wasn't even a /tell. But hey, this was a different kinship so maybe they're different! So again I accepted. This kinship did not have juvenile delinquents trolling the cyberspace, unlike my previous experience, so this was already a plus (lol). In fact, this kinship seemed not to have anyone active at all, and inviting me was a desperate attempt to fill it again by random active players. Kin chat channel was dead. Nobody talked, and I haven't ran into another kinmate while I was in that kinship. The kin message of the day occasionally changed, but the message was always phrased in the same overly-enthusiastic, condescending, and I dare even say maternal style that made me suspect that the kin leader had too much time on her(?) hands and tried to fill it by recruiting a ton of random low-level players (not the optimal way to build a nurturing community to say the least). What made me leave this kin was receiving a group kinship mail informing that apparently someone in the kin took advantage of the free-for-all permissions on the housing chests and stole a bunch of stuff from the kinhouse. I kinda feel bad for this kin leader, whoever it was, but being far too trusting to a completely random group of strangers that you fill your own kinship with does not bode well for this person's emotional stability. A strange experience.

    After leaving that kin, I was still hanging around Bree because I was in that level range and had quests there. Before long I got accosted by some random player who started asking me random questions about _other_ kinships. Do I know this or that kin leader, do I have any alts in this or that kin, etc. As mentioned before, I'm still a total MMO noob at this point unable to gouge the guy's intentions, so I simply respond. Our chatter drifts to LotR and role-playing, he informs me his kin is into role playing (an interest of mine) and invites me. I think, perfect! So I accept. To cut long story short, this kinship turns out to be filled with immature ego-driven individuals of indeterminable age whose "role playing" consisted of one massive ego trip (along the lines of "I get to be King of the Elves and this is my noble family and you get to kiss my a$$, loyal little minions" - except misspelled and delivered in poor grammar. *Shudder*). It was such a train wreck that I stayed on board for a while simply to see how far it would go. There was no helping, there was no crafting/sharing with other kin members, there was no group activities to facilitate teamwork and interactions. The kin channel was filled with "role-play" banter being delivered entirely in "lol-speak" (you'd think elves would have good grammar, huh?), and with lots of trash talk directed at other rival kins. The clues were right there for me from the start: that's why I was subjected to a little "interview" full of unsolicited gossip about other kins.

    I had two (!) more similar encounters with other kins, but I'll leave out the details - you get the idea. One of these involved level-capped players grouping with me in an instance and actually making rolls on "bind-on-acquire" loot that was 50 levels below them and unsuitable for their classes, instead of yielding it to on-level players in their own fellowship/kinship who could benefit from it on the spot.

    Well, needless to say, such encounters have done their part to turn me off entirely from kinships of any kind. It also turned me off from spontaneous random role-playing, and that's the reason I no longer have the white RP tag on my name. Far too many on my server, alas, use that tag simply to show off because it's different, and such local white-names are more likely to act immaturely or troll others.

    So there it is.

    My conclusions: cold-invitation kinships are either a) into fooling and trolling around, b) into power games and drama with other kins, c) simply want more bodies to fill their ranks to feel better about themselves (good-natured but sad), d) any combination of previous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Laire View Post

    This depends on servers, in my experience. Both servers I play on seem to be pretty cool with non-kinned or personal-kinned players if they are good players (especially the 'good player' thing on Elendilmir).
    Indeed. Lotro was right in calling their servers "worlds", there really does seem to be a world of a difference on each one. If only I knew this at the beginning instead of blindly jumping into a random one that caught my eye. But as they say, live and learn!
    Last edited by Herwegur; Oct 18 2013 at 01:02 AM.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by hucklebarry View Post

    Now, for healers... there is a bias, but I don't think it has to do with kin invites. I still claim random invites are all about numbers. If a kin needs a healer for content... they are gonna talk to you first to make sure you actually intend to help and/or CAN help. The healer bias comes with random group invites. People just scan the fellowship panel and start with 85 healers, then work their way down the classes. Its just one of the reasons that anonymous is such a valuable tool. I love getting tells asking for help... I loathe people who argue when I can't or who don't even bother asking before sending invites... sadly, these are very common.
    .
    I'd agree -definitely a healer bias for random invites of all types. Especially for Moria and GA, when you get to cap.

    Bree and Lonelands are most common areas for ninja invites for my other classes. I will say-all my female characters are elves and healers and have all been pestered by repeated (declined) fellowship requests and kin requests. My boys not so much. But they are not played as often. <shrug>

    When i was new I had much the same experience as others- the random invite kin-though done through a tell, was to a kin that churned large numbers of members. Lots of leet speak epeening and not a lot of help. They even auctioned dates with hot female kinnies as prizes for spars! Cliquey, and so much like high school it amused me for a while to lurk. (Great writing material. Didn't help my game much.)

    Second kin was lovely and taught me crafting: the invite came after playing with an officer guard for a while (i discovered he/they really needed a healer for cap (just gone to 65) and i was being groomed. It was chatty and friendly and helpful on game play but too small and it slowly faded when the guard stopped playing-just as I finally crawled out of Moria.

    I chose my next kins, after lots of research and have never regretted my choice. Good kins are hard to find. Raid kins prepared to teach a noob how to group are even rarer. I found one. And they raided at a time I could play. I joined them when I got to 70 in ROI and they took me through everything: best gear choices, crafting for preparing for raiding, maxing LI's, rep barterers and what they had, how skirmish marks were best used, and how to do most of ROI instances at tier 2, except ToO. Then through most of the ROR ones. The game suddenly came together for me. I'd always loved the story but the rest was stuff you did because it was in the game- until then. All those seperate parts of the game that I'd played/learned were needed for a once a week event. I got hooked on Lotro and resubscribed for a year,y as a result of this kin. Then stuff happened within the kin. Boredom set in People leave the game when there's nothing to left for them to do. Sigh...I still miss my former kinnies from my previous server.

    But I am very happy with my new kin on Laurelin. It does all those things other kins promise. Help. Craft Share Chat. Newsletter. Website. Advice. Groups runs. And if and when my new mini is ready to raid, they are a member of a a raid alliance. Good kins make life in middle earth wonderful. Bad ones are like a bad trip in time back to the worst of family and highschool combined...
    Last edited by Calta; Oct 18 2013 at 05:11 AM. Reason: added stuff

  5. #30
    I think this gender bias is all in your head, to be honest

  6. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Moskvich View Post
    EDIT: this is at least the fourth time that my female elf minstrel has received a cold kinship invite. Makes me think that elves, or minstrels, or females must be very popular members of kinships.
    I get cold invites all the time on the handful of characters that I have that aren't in kinships already. It doesn't matter if they're male, female, elf, dwarf, or whatever. People just have a hard time thinking of a good way to approach someone. At the very least they should have a conversation, or maybe fellow up for a little bit before sending the invite. You never know, the person sending the invite (or being invited) might be the biggest jerk in the game.

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    The last few guild/kin/tribe invites that I've accepted have all come from unsolicited invites. If they send me a tell asking me to join their goupr, I figure they have time to answer some questions. If the answers suit me, I'll join. If people didn't 'invite' me, I'd not likely join groups. I haven't joined a kinship with my free peoples yet since I've been back in LoTRO (about 4 months now), but I don't spend much time on them. I mostly play creep side in the Moors.

    I got and accepted a spam invite to my current tribe and have no complaints. .

    If you want to grow your kinship and it's not yet well-known or well-established you have to do some active recruitment. You can spam messages in OOC (annoying), or try and advertise on forums (useless). I'm betting contacting individuals one-on-one in game is more successful than some other methods.

    There are some real introverts playing MMO's. They need encouragement
    Purely~Scrumptious

  8. #33
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    I use the "cold invite" frequently, why? because:
    A. regional/OOC advertising doesn't work, even more true for smaller/casual kinships.
    B. forum advertising also doesn't work.
    C. finding players without kinships that want to fellow for something can be uncommon, and even if you do they often don't have any interest in joining a kin.
    D. not exactly common on my server to see players post messages that they're actively seeking a kinship.
    E. the "cold invite" is the most effective manner of finding players, granted, I try to word mine as best as possible, as well as throwing some information about my kinship into it.

    I do acknowledge that some cold invites are extremely blunt (I try to work mine better than that), but at the same time, it's the single most effective way to find members, sure, a lot of the members you find will be inactive, but some of the members can also end up being among the most active members in the kinship, these are the people I look for when I recruit, and when an opportunity to find them that doesn't involve "cold invites" comes up, I take them. This may not apply to the games most active servers, but it applies on mine, I only send a "cold invite" to a player once, I do not repeat the invite unless I have a brain fart and do so accidentally, if the person I send the invite to has questions I answer them, if they decline, I thank them for their time. Recruiting is not the easiest thing in the world to do. If there's anything I consider rude I've seen my experiences it's the behavior of some of the people I've asked, players who are clearly not afk, nor engaged in something particularly taxing on their time (I never send a tell if the player is currently in a fellowship) that don't even bother to respond to my message with a simple "no". There is nothing more annoying about recruiting than people who consider themselves above even bothering to inform the person who asked if they want to join that they decline the offer.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uvle View Post
    If there's anything I consider rude I've seen my experiences it's the behavior of some of the people I've asked, players who are clearly not afk, nor engaged in something particularly taxing on their time (I never send a tell if the player is currently in a fellowship) that don't even bother to respond to my message with a simple "no". There is nothing more annoying about recruiting than people who consider themselves above even bothering to inform the person who asked if they want to join that they decline the offer.
    No offence, but feeling put off by unresponsiveness of others is your prerogative and there is nothing "rude" about not choosing to respond. Some don't reply to in-game /tells from random strangers, period. Some aren't keen on having their in-game privacy interrupted. Some, as you have seen earlier in this thread, simply don't reply to cold invites. The moment you message a complete stranger out of the blue, about anything, be prepared to expect dead silence. That's part of the risk involved in initiating contact with an unfamiliar individual. Calling people "rude" for not replying to random invites is a bit presumptuous, yet interestingly revealing of the perspective and attitude from the "other side" of a cold kinship invite. It confirms my hypothesis that on the sender's part there is an expectation of the target's prompt reply and acknowledgment of the sender's presence, which is gratifying to receive and which turns to frustration if such gratification is being denied.

    What actually _is_ rude, while we are on the subject, is when the targeted kinless individuals go on /regional public chat and start bashing the sender for a cold invite. I have seen this on my server, and that indeed crosses the line even if kin invites were being spammed.

  10. #35
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    I can certainly understand that, and maybe it's a bit much to straight up consider it rude, but I do feel like this thread was in need of some perspective from the other side. I'm not some evil guy, or an idiot with bad social skills. I'm just a kin leader trying his best to provide his kin members with a great kinship, and recruiting is a hard thing to do sometimes, especially since any method other than the "cold invite" is almost 100% guaranteed to be met with silence, so it's disappointing when the more personal approach is met with the same, though I don't exactly expect a prompt reply, but I don't think it's too much to ask for a simple "no" so long as the other player isn't currently all that busy, even if I get a response 10 or even 20 minutes after the question it's still better than nothing at all from my POV.

  11. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Moskvich View Post
    EDIT: this is at least the fourth time that my female elf minstrel has received a cold kinship invite. Makes me think that elves, or minstrels, or females must be very popular members of kinships.
    My $0.02 is that Minstrels (healers) are always in high demand. The fact that your Minstrel is female has nothing to do with it.. (still playing catch-up on the thread, so my apologies if this sentiment has already been offered)
    [I][COLOR=#daa520][FONT=comic sans ms]~ Occasional Taunter of Masked Badgers[/FONT][FONT=comic sans ms] ~[/FONT][/COLOR][/I]

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uvle View Post
    I can certainly understand that, and maybe it's a bit much to straight up consider it rude, but I do feel like this thread was in need of some perspective from the other side. I'm not some evil guy, or an idiot with bad social skills. I'm just a kin leader trying his best to provide his kin members with a great kinship, and recruiting is a hard thing to do sometimes, especially since any method other than the "cold invite" is almost 100% guaranteed to be met with silence, so it's disappointing when the more personal approach is met with the same, though I don't exactly expect a prompt reply, but I don't think it's too much to ask for a simple "no" so long as the other player isn't currently all that busy, even if I get a response 10 or even 20 minutes after the question it's still better than nothing at all from my POV.
    I would say that no reply is an implied "no" answer. As well as "expressing" a lack of interest in holding a conversation about the topic.

  13. #38
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    Back in early 2008 I got a tell out of the blue asking me if I wanted to join a kin. Saying "yes ok" was the best decison I've made in the game - because it was in that kin - "I Apadrim Ned Valar" that I met some fantastic people. Since then we morphed into "Extraordinary Adventurers League" and though I've been on my travels, most of the people from the old days are still in EAL - Reimou, Whiteberry, Grinadan, Tadion to name just a few.

    Or to put it another way - what have you got to lose by saying yes
    Because SOA was damn site better than what we have in today's LOTRO.
    (This signature space could be yours on short term leases. Contact me for details and rates!!)

  14. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by whheydt View Post
    I would say that no reply is an implied "no" answer. As well as "expressing" a lack of interest in holding a conversation about the topic.
    I'm not sure about that though... since if you reword what you are saying, it doesn't come across as well. For example...

    Quote Originally Posted by Noone Specific
    It isn't rude to ignore someone.
    Now, I'm not talking about intent here... as in I'm not saying that someone is intentionally being rude by not replying. And yes, I understand that etiquette in game chat may have evolved to not necessarily apply to conversation out in the real world... doesn't that speak poorly about the community in the game in general, and the manners of those who are playing? I mean, if you were in a room with someone, in real life, and they spoke to you... would you ignore them? Would you consider it to be rude if you didn't speak to them? Flip it. If you spoke to someone in the same room as you, and they ignored you... wouldn't you feel they were being rude? What's the difference between that and a /tell in the game? And more importantly... WHY is there a difference, and why SHOULD there be a difference?

    It shouldn't matter if it is in game or real life... there should be a minimum standard for politeness.

    I find it extremely rude when I ride into Bree, or Thorin's Hall, or Michel Delving, and I greet the area in Regional, and I get crickets back in return... when I know there are players there getting my greeting in the chat channel. I'm not recruiting, I'm not asking a question, I'm not looking for anything... I'm a lvl 85 guilded metalsmith Champo maxed all the way who is just saying Hello. Yet the other players in the area getting my greeting can't find the time to give the chat equivalent of a nod or wave back.

    When did abandoning basic social graces become acceptable?

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by whheydt View Post
    I would say that no reply is an implied "no" answer. As well as "expressing" a lack of interest in holding a conversation about the topic.
    that'd be true, if there was any way of knowing the person on the other end even saw the tell, I do take it as an implied no, but it's nice to be able to be sure about it.

  16. #41
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    I can honestly say that not only have I never received "an invite", I have never actually even seen "an invite." They are mythical creatures, even from a fantasy game perspective.

    I have received "invitations", be they cold or pop-up, and I've had characters wishing to invite me to their kinship converse with me. I respond to the cold invitations with either a "no thank you", or a "This is only a crafting alt. I have characters in a very pleasant kinship already, but thank you for the offer." The pop-ups I just hit decline, and if they persist I turn off invitations.

    But "an invite"? I've never seen one. Ever.

  17. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Vhivi View Post
    The pop-ups I just hit decline
    I was following you all the way up to this point. Did you mean "When I receive pop-up invitations, I just hit decline." or did you mean something else?

    I realize that the usage of the word "invite" as a noun is incorrect... well, I mean informally, it is recognized as meaning an invitation... but FORMAL usage would indicate that you need to use the whole "invitation" instead of just "invite" That's why you lost me with "The pop-ups I just hit decline". That's quite an informal phrasing there. I can't tell if you were assuming we would just understand what you meant (just like the people that use the word "invite" as a noun do), or if there was some usage of that phrase that I was unaware of. That's why I'm asking what you meant. I mean... you wouldn't come down on people using an informal form of the word "invite" out of one side of your mouth, and then use informal phrasings out of the other side of your mouth, would you?
    Last edited by bongart; Oct 19 2013 at 02:34 PM.

  18. #43
    OK. So I have just recently been 'promoted' to kin leader in my kin. The reason was because I am VIP and could change the kin name for free.
    But I take it seriously and am trying to rebuild this old, once very active kin again.

    Currently I invite non-affiliated players to the kin with a tell that says something like " XX kin is recruiting all lvls and player types. Would you like to join our kin?"

    If they join I try to explain that we are trying to get things going again in this kin and if they need any help they can ask and they will be helped.

    I get maybe 1 in 10 to join...not sure how that measures up.


    So how should I go about recruiting that doesn't take forever or come across as offensive?

  19. #44
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    I do send tells inviting people to join my kinship, but they are in 2 level ranges, new and "Moria-Mirk". "New" players, those under 30 that I see their names for the first time (I have a good memory most of the time), I send an invite asking if they want to join and describing who we are. If they respond with a "yes", talk with them and invite them to give them a chance. If they say "no", respond politely and wish them luck and much joy. If they don't respond, don't send a tell again. "Moria-Mirk" it's a simple opening asking if they are solo or someone looking to join a good group of fellows. Usually that starts a conversation one way or another. I tell my officers to never ninja invite or spam invites/adverts. Regional adverting almost never works, but I have found a few good people that way. What I find mostly from tells is new people who are looking for guidance, many of which turn into great players and members, and people who add our name into the mix of kins they are considering. Rings Anonymous doesn't win all the time, but I do get many mails and tells farther down the road from the same people asking for an invite. If all else fails, it helps grow our name.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikethechowd View Post
    OK. So I have just recently been 'promoted' to kin leader in my kin. The reason was because I am VIP and could change the kin name for free.
    But I take it seriously and am trying to rebuild this old, once very active kin again.

    Currently I invite non-affiliated players to the kin with a tell that says something like " XX kin is recruiting all lvls and player types. Would you like to join our kin?"

    If they join I try to explain that we are trying to get things going again in this kin and if they need any help they can ask and they will be helped.

    I get maybe 1 in 10 to join...not sure how that measures up.


    So how should I go about recruiting that doesn't take forever or come across as offensive?
    honestly as long as your tells are civil people have no right to get offended by them, it's the most practical way to recruit, there is no easy method for recruiting.

  21. #46
    I think courtesy and politeness are very important. Not only do they make our interactions more pleasant and the world generally a better place, but they often lead to better outcomes in lots of different ways. Just to be clear, I consider a kinship invitation to be 'cold' when it comes out of the blue, without any prior conversation or interaction. I do not by that mean to imply that 'cold' is necessarily 'rude.' In fact, some of the cold invitations I have received have been quite polite, and those are the ones that lead me to form a favorable impression, both of the person sending the message and of the kinship that he or she is representing. Politeness is important on my part, too, and so I agree that, all things being equal, I try to respond to all invitations, even the cold ones, in a way that I hope is perceived by the other person to be polite: a simple "no thank you," or, if I have a few seconds longer, "I'm not currently looking, but ty for inviting me." (Or, if I'm particularly congested that day, a "thag you berry butch...") But I'm quite certain I've missed a few: sometimes when I'm crafting, I will walk away from the computer and quite literally be "AFK," even if that's not showing on my character. It only takes a handful of "you have successfully completed!" messages for someone's personal /tell to be bumped out of the chat window. Sometimes, I will turn off my sound while I'm out in Middle-earth doing something - maybe collecting resources, or completing a quest - and so I do not hear the tell-tale "ding" announcing the arrival of a new message (and it, too, quickly fades from the viewscreen, given all the resources I've just collected, etc, etc). So in those cases, if I've not responded to someone, it's not that I've intended to be rude. It's just that, quite literally, I've been otherwise occupied.

    I'm not opposed to cold invitations (although I think that the formal "kinship invitation" - the one that interrupts your current actions and forces a response - should only be used after there's been some interaction between us, and some expression of interest on my part). But the cold invitations that are also polite are the ones that are likely to leave me with a favorable impression of the sender and of the kinship he or she represents.

  22. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Moskvich View Post
    But I'm quite certain I've missed a few: sometimes when I'm crafting, I will walk away from the computer and quite literally be "AFK," even if that's not showing on my character. It only takes a handful of "you have successfully completed!" messages for someone's personal /tell to be bumped out of the chat window. Sometimes, I will turn off my sound while I'm out in Middle-earth doing something - maybe collecting resources, or completing a quest - and so I do not hear the tell-tale "ding" announcing the arrival of a new message (and it, too, quickly fades from the viewscreen, given all the resources I've just collected, etc, etc). So in those cases, if I've not responded to someone, it's not that I've intended to be rude. It's just that, quite literally, I've been otherwise occupied.
    Unless you have removed the third default chat tab (the one marked IMs), or you have disabled IMs, there will be a blue asterisk next to the title of that tab when you have new activity in that tab. Any IMs you would have gotten while you were crafting will be listed there, organized by who sent you to them. So... even if the copies of the IMs you were sent have been pushed out of the visible buffer in the main channel, you can still see any IMs you got while you were crafting. Those of us talking about wanting a response to an IM, and comparing it to being ignored in a conversation in person... well, we have either made mention of the fact that a reply 20 minutes later is just fine, or we made no mention of a reply needing to be timely at all. Any response is better than no response.

    That said, I respect your view that you try to reply to them all, and you try to do so in a timely fashion. That is a basic level of politeness I wish more people had in this game.

  23. #48
    You're playing an MMO. It has other people playing it, which has pros and cons. Whenever receiving a 'cold invite' simply refuse and carry on. Why so easily annoyed or offended? Does the single invite turn into a spamfest; report.

  24. #49
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Forod orchall
    Posts
    630
    Quote Originally Posted by bongart View Post
    It shouldn't matter if it is in game or real life... there should be a minimum standard for politeness.

    I find it extremely rude when I ride into Bree, or Thorin's Hall, or Michel Delving, and I greet the area in Regional, and I get crickets back in return... when I know there are players there getting my greeting in the chat channel. I'm not recruiting, I'm not asking a question, I'm not looking for anything... I'm a lvl 85 guilded metalsmith Champo maxed all the way who is just saying Hello. Yet the other players in the area getting my greeting can't find the time to give the chat equivalent of a nod or wave back.

    When did abandoning basic social graces become acceptable?
    As much as I would also like to see a minimum standard of politeness among the in-game population, moments like these simply remind me what a global/multicultural/diverse environment an MMO is. Not only standards of politeness being culturally variable, but also what actually constitutes 'gaming etiquette' and whether there can actually be such a thing... since different folks, depending on their backgrounds, upbringing, and perspectives, tend to have different views and approaches. (Which can be an interesting discussion in itself...)

    For example, you consider it rude when you issue a greeting via /regional channel and nobody responds. But another player may consider the usage of /regional public channel for general banter unacceptable, and maybe subscribes to a view that such channels ought to be used for more concrete inquiries, such as questions/questing assistance/ etc... You are not wrong and neither is the (hypothetical) other player wrong, simply different views. In one culture, social graces imply responsiveness and being sociable, but in another culture social graces may imply restraint and withholding from random chitchat unless there is an actual question or issue to respond to. The latter is true in my case, for example. Chances are, I would not reply to a publicly-issued greeting in /regional (unless the greeting was made in-character and catches my attention). Am I rude, impolite, or abandoned basic social grace for choosing not to respond? No, I'm simply not into chitchat on public channels. If, however, someone posted a regional question or asking for help, and I knew the answer or could provide it, I would immediately respond. In my cultural context, it's considered impolite to draw public attention to oneself by using a public communication channel as a shoutbox, but I know that there is no universal objective standard measurement for such things, so I don't judge others by my own standards but try to remember that standards of sociability/politeness are all culturally variable.

    IMO the best thing is simply not to let these differences be a source of bother or annoyance, but to take things easy and just roll with it...

  25. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Herwegur View Post
    For example, you consider it rude when you issue a greeting via /regional channel and nobody responds. But another player may consider the usage of /regional public channel for general banter unacceptable, and maybe subscribes to a view that such channels ought to be used for more concrete inquiries, such as questions/questing assistance/ etc...
    This example doesn't work in a system where there are specific channels for things like Out of Character Chat/Trading/Looking for Fellowship/Etc. Whey my greeting is simply and specifically "Greetings, inhabitants of Thorin's Hall!" (as I have used on more than one occasion).. this could be a greeting In Character, or Out of Character. With the specific channels for other specific things, if Regional chat was to be used for Questing Assistance, it would have a more specific title other than just Regional. I understand what you were attempting to say by providing this example... and what you were trying to say would fit if I were talking about looking for fellowships in the Trade channel. At that point, some players would be correct in assuming that the chat was inappropriate for the channel content. I could even see your example holding some water, when it was applied to an ongoing conversation being held in the Regional chat over a period of time. However, a simple greeting is something else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Herwegur View Post
    You are not wrong and neither is the (hypothetical) other player wrong, simply different views. In one culture, social graces imply responsiveness and being sociable, but in another culture social graces may imply restraint and withholding from random chitchat unless there is an actual question or issue to respond to.
    If a simple greeting were the same as idle chitchat or small talk, then maybe this would apply as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Herwegur View Post
    The latter is true in my case, for example. Chances are, I would not reply to a publicly-issued greeting in /regional (unless the greeting was made in-character and catches my attention). Am I rude, impolite, or abandoned basic social grace for choosing not to respond? No, I'm simply not into chitchat on public channels.
    If someone walked up to you, offered a hand and a greeting, and you ignored them.... yes, you would be rude, impolite, and abandoning basic social graces. If that person was then proceeding with idle chitchat about the weather or local farming conditions, that would be something completely different.

    However... the larger picture that your examples imply, is that I have a different understanding of social graces from EVERYONE ELSE THAT IS ONLINE when I make the greeting. I say this, because from what you quoted me as saying, I pointed out that I would get NO REPLIES at all. I wouldn't get one, or a few... there wasn't a mix of social cultures online where some thought it was OK and some didn't... or some grew up not accustomed to being greeted by strangers, and some did. There were NO examples of ANYONE having the social grace to return a greeting. Not Idle chitchat. Not small talk. A simple greeting.

 

 
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