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  1. #1

    +50% crit multiplier legacy

    I was curious to see what our +50% crit multiplier did for our dps, so I calculated what my % dps increase would be with the legacy and without. Why you ask? Well, you see, it all began a while ago when I picked up pvp again in RoR. RoR PVE was dying or already dead, it was summer time, I was bored, so I created a First age 2 hander to swap for my ardour build, and decided to also make it dual purpose so I put on -120 sudden defense cd, +sprint duration, rend bleed, rend pulses(or is it armour reduction on sword), brutal attack, wild attack, and battle frenzy cd. Anyway, I made this 2h sword for swapping purposes, and later just used that for pvp while in fervour. I recently realized I've been using it all this time WITHOUT the +50% crit multiplier legacy. Was I still successful? well, yes! But I wasn't seeing dps parses as high as other champs with similar values of might and crit, so I looked around and realized I didn't have this legacy.

    So here's what I was working with:

    Assume for a second each attack we have does 1 damage (for simplification purposes). No matter if it was crit, dev, or normal attack. Also assume our crit is capped. So if we did 100 attacks, we would do 100 damage:

    crit + dev + norm = 100 attacks
    25 + 10 + 65 = 100 damage

    Now when I add on multipliers of 175% for crit(without the legacy), 200% for dev, and 100% for norm, I get:

    1.75(25) + 2(10) + 1(65) = 128.75

    But this isn't always true because sometimes, when wild attack crits, I yield +5% crit chance, so during those times it's 30% crit, 10% dev, and 60% normal so:

    1.75(30) + 2(10) + 1(60) = 132.2

    Now, I know that if I used DW on WA my chance of proc'ing the crit is 58% and my chance of not proc'ing the crit is then 42%, so to find my total damage under these circumstances I have to weigh the values based on my crit proc:

    (128.75)42 + (132.2)58 = 130.75. So without the crit multiplier my damage is 130.75


    WITH the crit multiplier my new calculations are:

    2.25(25) + 2(10) + 1(65) = 141.25 when the crit proc is not active
    and
    2.25(30) + 2(10) + 1(60) = 147.5 when the crit proc is active

    and weighing these values:

    (141.25)42 + (147.5)58 = 153.35 So with the crit multiplier my damage is 153.35

    This is a difference of 22.75% damage. To calculate damage increase, it's 22.75/130.75 which gives me:

    17% increase in damage, and since these two differences would be over the same amount of time, a 17% increase in dps.

    I'm an idiot :/


    PS:

    This is obviously an oversimplification of a few things to make the math easier. For example, when I proc wild attack, it lasts for 6 seconds, which is plenty of time to refresh it once again to continue the cycle. Also, it doesn't take into account extra multipliers for WA and brutal strikes due to set bonuses among other things i'm sure I've overlooked. However, I feel the calculated value is close to the real value.
    Last edited by mrfigglesworth; Oct 16 2013 at 12:24 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,544
    Hehe, that's pretty close to my even more simplified (and totally ignoring the math) guideline of +50% damage on 1/3 of my hits Now I really want to have those boots for another 5% dps ...
    Used to play: 85 Champ / Captain / Runekeeper / Guardian, Guild Master of everything but cooking.
    Playing now: Hellcat / King Tiger / GW Panther / IS / KV-5 / M4 Sherman and more

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimdi View Post
    Hehe, that's pretty close to my even more simplified (and totally ignoring the math) guideline of +50% damage on 1/3 of my hits Now I really want to have those boots for another 5% dps ...
    yeah, it's about 4% increase with the boots too.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Wandering aimlessly
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    15
    Your numbers are wrong when you're taking the crit multiplier into account.

    (128.75)42 + (132.2)58 = 130.75. So without the crit multiplier my damage is 130.75
    however,

    (141.25)42 + (147.5)58 = 153.35 So with the crit multiplier my damage is 153.35
    is incorrect.

    (141.25)42 + (147.5)58 = 144.875 or 144.88.

    Which makes for a difference of:

    (144.88) - (130.75) = 14.13

    To calculate damage increase, it's 14.13/130.75 which gives,

    10.8% increased damage.

    Which while still significant, is also nearly half as significant as you originally proposed.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by CassiopeiaA View Post
    Your numbers are wrong when you're taking the crit multiplier into account.



    however,



    is incorrect.

    (141.25)42 + (147.5)58 = 144.875 or 144.88.

    Which makes for a difference of:

    (144.88) - (130.75) = 14.13

    To calculate damage increase, it's 14.13/130.75 which gives,

    10.8% increased damage.

    Which while still significant, is also nearly half as significant as you originally proposed.
    Thanks for that catch, I still have no idea now that I look at it how I got above both weighted values :P. But something's fishy because I came to this number twice after double checking it. I don't understand why but I'll have to look at it again.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    1,105
    I think we all can agree that critmult is a must-have though, be the numbers 10 or 20%
    [SIZE=3][COLOR=#008000]If it moves, kill it - Then look for more things to kill[/COLOR][/SIZE]

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Arkenstone
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    This is the best legacy in the game.

    Hmm. Maybe + aoe targets, but that's Guardians so it's not as important (I have a capped Guardian).
    Bruuwnor, Dwarf Champion of Arkenstone, Pipeweed and Ale

  8. #8
    More damage means more threat generation which means more aggro onto the champ, which means more aggro we can then dump onto that rk trying to aoe with fire
    so... with the crit multiplier increase of 10% or 20% what ever the number is, means M0AR aggro to dump on the rk muahahahahahhahaahahahahahahah ahaha
    [B][FONT=arial]"We should always help those who are in need and ask for nothing in return, for helping is the reward"
    [/FONT][/B][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/4X69hvL.png?1[/IMG]

  9. #9
    A really long time ago I calculated something around 5% more dps for this legacy. But I no longer recall the details save that it was way before critical rating increased the mutliplier. I will have a look at it soon and post my results here.

    Edit: It seems my calculations are either a really long way back in the times of Mirkwood or I messed up a few things back then. I probably did both of it .

    But there are a few things in your consideration that are wrong. Unfortunately I cannot log into the game right now due to the expansion being patched and this will take a while as my connection is rather slow thus I have to write everything from memory.

    1) If I am not mistaken, Deadly Strikes also applies to devastating hits thus increasing the Multiplier from 2 to 2.25.

    2) Critical Rating contributes to critical (and devastating) multiplier for a few months now. I think the number at cap was a 35% magnitude bonus. This increases the multipliers to 1.9 for crits and 2.6 for devs.

    3) Offhand strikes have a lower crit multiplier of 1.1 instead of 1.5 (Raging Blades only had 1.0 last time I checked).

    4) A crit does not do 1.5 times the average damage even though this is the basic multiplier. For physical attacks (and for some time now also tactical attacks, probably since RoI as tactical crit multipliers on items were neglected but NOT heals) the crit multiplier applies to the maximum of the skill with the minimum being around 60% of this value (depending on skill). Thus the average non-crit deals 80% of its maximum for damage. The maximum (i.e. 100%) will be used as a reference for the following calculations.

    5) As you already said the crit bonus from Improved Wild Attack (or whatever it will be called henceforth) is quite reliably always active, so I will use 30% for critical chance. I am too tired now for some funky function to determine wether this buff is now active or not (depending on the attackspeed, critical rating, dual wielding and whatever...)

    Furthermore I will ignore stuff like the old Orthanc-set, golden Mallhedrim-Boots, Fervour-pots, dev-mag-relics and whatever might interfere with multipliers.

    The first calculation will be WITHOUT the legacy.

    Thus we get the following values:
    the probability for a critical hit: p_c = 0.3
    the probability for a devastating hit: p_d = 0.1
    the probability for a normal: p_n = 0.6 (should be self-explanatory)

    the multiplier for a critical hit: m_c = 1.5 + 0.25 + 0.35 = 2.1 (basic value, deadly strikes and critical rating)
    the multiplier for a devastating hit: m_d = 2.0 + 0.25 + 0.35 = 2.6 (as above)
    the multiplier for a normal hit: m_n = 0.5 * (0.6 + 1) = 0.8 (average between minimum and maximum)

    NOTE: You can use 1 as the multiplier for a normal hit but beware to then weigh the multipliers with 1 / 0.8 = 1.25 as these apply to the maximum. Your expectation value will of course be higher but the end result which matters will stay the
    same.

    For the expectation value follows:

    EV = p_c * m_c + p_d * m_d + p_n * m_n = 0.3 * 2.1 + 0.1 * 2.6 + 0.6 * 0.8 = 1.37

    This means you will hit on average for 1.37 times the maximum of the skill WITHOUT the legacy.


    Now to figure out the relative increase due to the legacy we just change m_c to m_d as the legacy basically turns crits into devs (i.e. skills with normal multipliers: 1.5 and 2)

    The second calculation will be WITH the legacy.

    EV = p_c * m_d + p_d * m_d + p_n * m_n = (0.3 + 0.1) * 2.6 + 0.6 * 0.8 = 1.52 (m_d has been factorised)

    This in turn means you will hit on average for 1.52 times the maximum of the skill WITH the legacy.

    Thus the relative increase is the following assuming the Wild Attack crit buff is always present:

    1.52 / 1.37 - 1 = 10.9%


    The number is nearly the same as Casseopeia's but keep in mind that my normal multiplier is lower while my devastating multiplier is higher as well as my crit probability.

    Second Edit:
    I am not yet familiar with the changes with Helm's Deep so be cautious when reading an feel free to correct me where I am wrong .
    Last edited by Thruili; Nov 20 2013 at 05:12 PM.

 

 

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