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  1. #1
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    Water Wheels of Nala-Dum WOW whats going on with this ?

    Ok something is seriously wrong with the scale of the quest. It says 60 level Small fellowship,, Ya right! On most times my wife and I can do small fellowship quest as a duet when we are a few level over the quest. We got into this instance buffed up Food scrolls the normal buff up before a tough quest. We lasted about 1 min and we where so dead its mot funny this felt like all of a full fellowship and then some. I never seen anything like this. My wife and I have been playing 2 years and this quest made me feel like a 100% newbie.

    There must be something wrong with the scaling My wife is a 63 level hunter and I was on my 63 level champ and this was the worst party wipe we ever had both dead in under 30 sec.

    I got to say this game makes no sense sometimes ! 99% of the content is so easy it puts u to sleep They really need to fix this. I know running a small fellowship as a duet should be a bit tough but so far its always been do-able.
    Last edited by Fearless.one; Oct 14 2013 at 10:38 AM.
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  2. #2
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    Water Wheels

    To be successful, you really need 3 because almost from the start you have to get a gate to open to get further inside. It requires one person to turn the wheels/levers while the other 2 go to the gate and pass through when it opens, they kill a few mobs while you wait, they operate a lever to extend a platform that you cross to join your fellowship members and proceed to Caeryg unless you are doing Challenge Mode which requires you to kill mobs in the Western or Southern room as well as the main boss, Caeryg. There is a technique to defeating him as well......It's a bit more complex than that since there are several wheels and levers to operate to open rooms and passageways, so you need to learn them. There are deeds in there too, so you would have to go back in more than once to complete those, which would allow you to learn the operating order.

    Not everything in LoTRO is easy peasy, it's very unlikely that you would be able to duo Moria Instances for example. Wiping a few times is all part of the learning experience, so my advice is bite the bullet and get a third....a healer. Good luck and if you think that one is hard try Lumul-nar! ARGH!.

    http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/The_...C3%A2-d%C3%BBm
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  3. #3
    I must admit I tried Lumul-nar to other day as a Duo. Guardian and Champion, both level 63 and we wiped at the first Boss. To much incoming damage to survive without heals.

    I wouldn't say it was broken, with three people in a balanced fellowship it would propably have been fine.

    Heaven help an on level group without the holy trinity of DPS-Heals-Tank.

    Personally it's nice to have some instances that still has some challenge left in them, but with so many broken ones (I'm looking at you Dargnákh Unleashed), it would be nice to know it was working as intended.

  4. #4
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    It's not a landscape quest, it's a three-person instance. It's set for level 60 trio, so 180 total levels, you bring 126, as if it's a level 42 level instance.

    My friends and I, two very casual players, all older, cruised through all but the final boss in our high fifties. We nailed the boss on a subsequent attempt, and cruising through the trash we were now familiar with was cake.

    Just because you are over level does not mean you have all the resources a complete group has. Who was tanking? Who was healing?

    Mirror-halls is a similar deal, which I remember coming beforehand but not sure. Although it has harder fights than Water-wheels.

    I'm glad you had food and scrolls to buff up, props to you all for being prepared, don't forget potions! (I forget if it's wounds or poison or what in that one, it's obviously fear in Mirror-halls, but you need a complete set regardless.)

    Now grab a third. You'll still want the scrolls/food to help out. Now consider that as a champ, even in the tank stance, you take more damage than a guard/warden would, requiring the healer to waste more effort and be more desperate/risk wiping. Consider going DPS with a tank and healer instead.

    A hunter would definitely need a tank and a healer to go with. Split up, complete the groups, and have fun! :-) If you are totally adverse to grouping with others, then be sure your champ tank gear is up to snuff, and you are on top of your rotations for keeping MOBs off anyone else (practice), and get a phenomenal mini or RK of higher level to join you too.

    It's actually one of the few instances that is scaled perfect, not needing you to be lower level than it to not be bored.

    PS: The solo versions are boring cakewalks, if you'd rather avoid the fun, always an option too. It's too late now for ya'll, but they aren't scaled properly, I'd recommend doing them around level 58 for most, 55 for those on their second characters/more experienced.
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  5. #5
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    Interesting ... whh and I have duoed it three times, Hunter/LM, Hunter/Minstrel, and Hunter/Minstrel. He's also soloed it six or seven times ... mind you, with level 85 characters. I've stood behind his chair and watched him. You do not need another person to open doors; you just need to know where everything is and which to do next. At this point he knows where everything is, and when my next character gets ready to do the Water-wheels, he'll tell me where to go.

    The hell-quest is the one before, the Mirror-halls. Interfering Morvul, we hatessss them....
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  6. #6
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    Well I never got to any part that needed more players and I was died in like 30 sec's *lol* I could not believe how hard those little lizards hit. After we wiped I did some reading I see now that you would Need more players for all the levers and stuff. I just would think we should have be able to kill the first few lizards with out dying instantly, I mean my chap is very well geared and i have all the best food pots and scrolls that you can be sure.

    Its cool if this how its supposed to be that fine with me I was just shocked how hard it is. I got used to the quest now days being so nerfed that I can do them with one hand tied Behind my back. I will just have to read up on the tactics and do this a bit later if we can't find a 3rd to do it with.


    Like I said I am just not used to seeing to many tough quest in this game anymore. I guess its a good thing there still a few tough quest left at all.

    Thanks all for the info!
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  7. #7
    Small Fellowship = 3. Two is not a small fellowship. Full fellowship is 6. Five is not a fellowship. Raid = 12. Eleven is not a raid.

  8. #8
    I had a devil of a time with that on my well-rounded above level RK because I thought over level would make a duo ok. Tried to duo it with a friend who was way above level, and I forget where it is inside, but the group of Caerogs (sp?) in a smaller room just wiped me every time, and she soon fell without my healing. Another friend, on their 85 champ, I think it was, came in and I still died, but at least they got us past that room. The end room was a cake walk compared to that room. Didn't read guides or whatever ahead of time, but I didn't go in there wearing flour sack armour and empty handed in the consumable department by far. I seem to recall another friend saying that room you're supposed to do something specific like keep them apart or what have you to not make it a wipe fest, but I haven't been back there since, so it's slipped from firm memory.

    There are some things, even with the so called triumvirate, that are just harder and I'm ok with that and even enjoy doing stuff meant for that trio without a key component for the challenge. Yet the solo only stuff that isn't class balanced...eesh. That drives me right up a wall. But I digress...
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  9. #9
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    Is this the one with a solo version added past year or two? I think I did it on a hunter last change to the game but not 100% certain (Fate stat makeover I ran a new hunter through to cap to test gameplay). I remember it as fairly hard but doable.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fearless.one View Post
    Ok something is seriously wrong with the scale of the quest. It says 60 level Small fellowship,, Ya right! On most times my wife and I can do small fellowship quest as a duet when we are a few level over the quest. We got into this instance ... There must be something wrong with the scaling ...
    Is a 3 man instance with a riddle, not a quest. It have puzzles that requires 3 person to solve it, there is no way you can complete the challenge with 2 persons on level. It is not broken, is possible to do it on level. In fact that instance don't have 1 single bug.
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  11. #11
    There are two things to consider with this instance:

    1) Lizards cast pretty nasty Deadly Acid (http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Deadly_Acid) on you. So bring Milkthistle Potions with you
    2) Rock-Worms will hit you with a Shattered Armour skill (http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Shattered_Armour) which will reduce your armour HUGELY

    Try not to aggro rock-worms and lizards together. Shattered Armour + Deadly Acid can do pretty solid damage combined

    And when you reach to final boss, be warned, this thing hits HARD! :P

    I soloed level 60 instance with my level 70 guardian and it was still quite challenging.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marxlne View Post
    ...I soloed level 60 instance with my level 70 guardian and it was still quite challenging.
    You can solo level 60 3-man instances when you are level 70 but not Nala-dum. You will not be able to solve the puzzle to reach the boss.
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  13. #13
    Which puzzle are you referring to ? There was only one tricky part where i had to pull the handle which opened a closing door nearby. There i had to use my Charge skill (+50% run speed) to get past the door before it closes. After that there was no tricky parts to get to the boss.
    And i'm not speaking about challenge. Yes, challenge mode isn't doable alone.

    Quote Originally Posted by YamydeAragon View Post
    You can solo level 60 3-man instances when you are level 70 but not Nala-dum. You will not be able to solve the puzzle to reach the boss.
    Last edited by Marxlne; Oct 29 2013 at 09:38 AM.

  14. #14
    This instance was created at a time when no-one expected to be able to walk into a 3-player space close to its level, with 2 dps classes and no heals, and expect to get past the first pull, let alone the whole instance.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarmas_Eldar View Post
    This instance was created at a time when no-one expected to be able to walk into a 3-player space close to its level, with 2 dps classes and no heals, and expect to get past the first pull, let alone the whole instance.
    Ya I found this out there just is not many quest like this left in the game anymore and I had a bit of shock it all good the quest is right I was just not used to it anymore in the dumbed down solofiied LOTRO *lol*
    I was shocked to see anyone still posted here this a old post
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fearless.one View Post
    Ya I found this out there just is not many quest like this left in the game anymore...
    No, there are many instances on this game that use puzzles. Helegrod, Lumulnar, Inn of the Forsaken & Ost Dunholt, have puzzles to mention some. People do them regularly on level, with challenge achieved & no cheating.
    Last edited by YamydeAragon; Oct 30 2013 at 10:31 PM.
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by YamydeAragon View Post
    No, there are many instances on this game that use puzzles.
    I think s/he was referring to having your backside handed to you on a plate by the first trash pull if you go in under-manned and near-level, rather than to the puzzle element.
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  18. #18
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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarmas_Eldar View Post
    I think s/he was referring to having your backside handed to you on a plate by the first trash pull if you go in under-manned and near-level, rather than to the puzzle element.
    All instances will return our backside handed to you on a plate by the first trash pull if you go unprepared.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarmas_Eldar View Post
    I think s/he was referring to having your backside handed to you on a plate by the first trash pull if you go in under-manned and near-level, rather than to the puzzle element.
    Yes that was what I meant. 95% of the game has been dumbed down for solo play and finding a quest this hard that Knocks you out of your socks in the first 30 sec's just don't happen anymore mostly this quest is a left over from better times in my book it just a shame you can't find anyone to do them or get the groups.
    Many have a buddy or 2 if there lucky play what they can and skip what they can't do.
    I could not get a group to run this to save my life so I had to give up and skip it too.

    Its getting hard to find fellowships nowadays and most of the kinships I have been in last a while and disappear. They can be a great Kin one day and gone the next. most time there just nobody on my server anymore (Arkenstone)

    I miss the good old days where fellowships play was the way it was done all the time and kins lasted for years not months so much stuff I wanted to do as I was leveling I even bought the XP disabler to give me more time to do them and still had to skip 90% of the instances.

    I wanted to run the Rift and Helegrod Halls of Night just a few I wanted to do. I would still love to find a group to do the moria Meta deed for the Black goat that impossible without a good dedicated group.

    I amp at least happy to get my world renown done. that was the big reason I had to by the XP disabler there was no way to finish 3, 60 to 65 level areas and even by time out got out of moria I was already 64 level and I am still doing moria deeds and story line.

    So anyway thanks for everyone's responses it was a false alarm the quest is more them right it the way it should be. If they would have left the content like that the game would be perfect and folks would group again
    Last edited by Fearless.one; Nov 01 2013 at 11:49 AM.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by YamydeAragon View Post
    All instances will return our backside handed to you on a plate by the first trash pull if you go unprepared.
    Well U see I am champ so diving in headlong and finding after kinda goes with the role now don't it. And if you don't try how do you know if u can do it or not.

    What do you do study the whole forum before to jump into a quest?

    I jump in first try it a few times then Look up the quest. Truth is you're not supposed to be prepared. If you look up the quest before u try I would think thats cheating and a spoiler.

    Try first the best you can and try again and again then look it up. Not much fun running thru the game with the walk thru in your hand.

    I thought the idea was to use that thing that set between your shoulders for more than a hat rack
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fearless.one View Post
    ...Truth is you're not supposed to be prepared. If you look up the quest before u try I would think thats cheating and a spoiler ... I thought the idea was to use that thing that set between your shoulders for more than a hat rack
    To be prepared don't means bring a cheat sheet. To be prepared means to use that thing that set between your shoulders to take account of the things you need on any instance appart a pointy stick to poke the monsters (well that's just 1 of the things on the list not all). You need to:

    • put your best armour & jewelry
    • double check your traits
    • bring food
    • bring pots
    • bring scroll
    • bring tokens
    • practice safe pulls
    • bring friends

    Yes, you know ahead of time if any instance is meant to make a solo player miserable because it say how many friends you need.

    But anyways LOTRO have no rule against sharing information about the technical strategies of a instance. LOTRO only rules out exploits (use of glitchs on the program to force the game to don't work as intended for your benefit). If you want more challenge by not listening to other players recomendations about how to do certain instance is your choice.
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  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by YamydeAragon View Post
    To be prepared don't means bring a cheat sheet. To be prepared means to use that thing that set between your shoulders to take account of the things you need on any instance appart a pointy stick to poke the monsters (well that's just 1 of the things on the list not all).
    To be fair to the OP, he says in his first post that he was buffed up with food/pots etc. He wasn't "unprepared" in that sense (and I didn't use that word, I said under-manned). The lesson he has learned is not that he has to look things up or to use more consumables, it's that instances made back in 2008, in a different era of the game, don't allow two DPS classes to get anywhere in a near-level instance without a third player to provide healing.

    The contrast with, for example, the current scaled versions of School, Library and Sambrog (all of which used also to require a full and balanced group) is quite stark.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by YamydeAragon View Post
    To be prepared don't means bring a cheat sheet. To be prepared means to use that thing that set between your shoulders to take account of the things you need on any instance appart a pointy stick to poke the monsters (well that's just 1 of the things on the list not all). You need to:

    • put your best armour & jewelry
    • double check your traits
    • bring food
    • bring pots
    • bring scroll
    • bring tokens
    • practice safe pulls
    • bring friends

    Yes, you know ahead of time if any instance is meant to make a solo player miserable because it say how many friends you need.

    But anyways LOTRO have no rule against sharing information about the technical strategies of a instance. LOTRO only rules out exploits (use of glitchs on the program to force the game to don't work as intended for your benefit). If you want more challenge by not listening to other players recomendations about how to do certain instance is your choice.
    You're really trying to come at me gunning aren't U. Ok have it your way Read my post before you comment. I am a 2.5 year vet to this game that has over 150 characters in this game as does my wife that I play with. we were prepared just not for a old school Instance there is only a handful of quest left in this game that hard anymore. It just caught us off guard nothing more. It seems you're trying to incite me here and treat me like some noob that just fell off the turnip truck. when the case is My wife and I have more play time than 98% of those in the game today.

    I said afterwards once folks told me about the quest that the quest was fine but some how you're trying to make us look like jackasses and frankly I don't think you're in any position to judge us as you could not even prepare to answer may post as you did not bother to read it did you?
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarmas_Eldar View Post
    To be fair to the OP, he says in his first post that he was buffed up with food/pots etc. He wasn't "unprepared" in that sense (and I didn't use that word, I said under-manned). The lesson he has learned is not that he has to look things up or to use more consumables, it's that instances made back in 2008, in a different era of the game, don't allow two DPS classes to get anywhere in a near-level instance without a third player to provide healing.

    The contrast with, for example, the current scaled versions of School, Library and Sambrog (all of which used also to require a full and balanced group) is quite stark.
    Thanks Man Phuu this guy was getting on my last nerve. That looks like I really cool quest I hope someday we find a healer to join us that may have done it before. That would rock.

    I mean I does say Senior Member next to my name here not just arrived last I checked. I alway try to beat a quest on my own before looking stuff up. unless it a instance that has other people in it with me. I would not want to waste others time. But taking a shot a 3 man instance with 2, 4 to 5 levels over on a champ and a hunter in top gear and buffed with 2.5 years of playing the game. I would not say I was unprepare.

    Your correct undermanned was proper statement but I do believe even with a healer we would have needed to do a bit of research after a few really good runs at it then concede to have to look the quest up after giving it the old college try. I am telling you this, any champ that has to read the book to take a shot at the 3 man quest with 2 skilled player over leveled to boot. In my book would not be a champion at all.

    Small chance of success, Certain chance of Death, What are we waiting for?

    No oh with I need to read the manually before I try this or I might get hurt *lol* Oh Please spare me
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  25. #25
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    I've found some basic rules for me while playing LOTRO on my server:

    - Game is very easy
    - Skirmishes are difficult
    - Instances are very difficult

    It is possible to modify difficulty level in skirmishes. It is sometimes possible to modify difficulty level of instances.
    I think it's a very good game model since you can always chose if you want to relax or if you want to have a bit of challenge.

    It is difficult to find a group to make an instance unless you are at CAP level with exception of some Moria instances. Kin can help sometimes.

 

 
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