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  1. #1
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    Apr 2011
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    Warg Rotations/Traits

    My Warg is currently r7 with 12 Aud. At the moment, I am taking a much needed break from the game....during this time, I would like to (or at least attempt to) find out info to improve on playing my class. Generally, while out in the current Moors, I feel like cannon fodder, partially my own fault because I senselessly charge into raids. I also tend to struggle with 1v1s unless it's a Hunter.

    So, I have 3 questions:

    Traits:

    I've decided to go with the Laurelin build from The Art of Warg's site. Is this still a good option in current moors right now?

    Rotation:

    Currently, in Shadow, I use Pounce>Maul>Claws>Slow or, if fighting a Burg or LM, I use Maul>Slow>Claws? Are either of these any good? Can anyone suggest a better rotation?

    Thirdly and finally, for Flayer, does anyone have any rotation suggestions?
    I've been at the mercy of men just following orders. Never again.

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Wargs have little survivability at the moment. Even in Flayer stance, which focuses on making the warg tougher, there is little in the way of real survivability. A freep with half decent gear can punch through Flayer's defences quite easily. In short don't expect to live very long as a warg if you are targeted and don't have Disappear/Sprint available. Because of this lack of survivability I tend to be an advocate of a good defence being a good offence. Hence the Laurelin Build.

    I have recently been using a Flayer build with a focus on morale, critical protection and some extra mitigations thrown in. I have been primarily using this setup in raids. Does it work? Not really. It allows me to survive where I might otherwise have died through being targeted by the enemy raid IF I am spam healed by my own raid in time. In other words it gives my raid's healers a little extra time to help me, but ultimately I am still relying on spam healing, just as I would be if I were using a damage build.

    I am probably going to go back to the all out damage setup I used in the past. I am going to be squishy anyway, it is just degrees of squishyness with wargs at the moment, so I might as well have damage if I can't have survivability.


    In terms of your rotation I would suggest going with a tried and tested setup:

    Shadow Pack (if possible)>Pounce>Crippling Bite>Bestial Claws (Maul if Burger)>Rend Flesh(if available)>Bestial Claws/Maul (repeat)

    I would recommend applying a slow to your target as soon as possible; you want the target under control, not running around dictating the fight. Also I tend to Pounce burgers these days. If they burn Find Footing on that initial stun they effectively waste its heal and you can then go ahead and stun them again, all the while hitting them through the +50% Evade buff because of Shadow stance. As for debuffs such as silences, etc I would suggest using them when possible, but don't get bogged down trying to debuff a freep because the whole time you will be taking damage without doing much in return (and of course some of our debuffs aren't great to begin with).

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
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    242
    Quote Originally Posted by MrWarg View Post
    Wargs have little survivability at the moment. Even in Flayer stance, which focuses on making the warg tougher, there is little in the way of real survivability. A freep with half decent gear can punch through Flayer's defences quite easily. In short don't expect to live very long as a warg if you are targeted and don't have Disappear/Sprint available. Because of this lack of survivability I tend to be an advocate of a good defence being a good offence. Hence the Laurelin Build.

    I have recently been using a Flayer build with a focus on morale, critical protection and some extra mitigations thrown in. I have been primarily using this setup in raids. Does it work? Not really. It allows me to survive where I might otherwise have died through being targeted by the enemy raid IF I am spam healed by my own raid in time. In other words it gives my raid's healers a little extra time to help me, but ultimately I am still relying on spam healing, just as I would be if I were using a damage build.

    I am probably going to go back to the all out damage setup I used in the past. I am going to be squishy anyway, it is just degrees of squishyness with wargs at the moment, so I might as well have damage if I can't have survivability.


    In terms of your rotation I would suggest going with a tried and tested setup:

    Shadow Pack (if possible)>Pounce>Crippling Bite>Bestial Claws (Maul if Burger)>Rend Flesh(if available)>Bestial Claws/Maul (repeat)

    I would recommend applying a slow to your target as soon as possible; you want the target under control, not running around dictating the fight. Also I tend to Pounce burgers these days. If they burn Find Footing on that initial stun they effectively waste its heal and you can then go ahead and stun them again, all the while hitting them through the +50% Evade buff because of Shadow stance. As for debuffs such as silences, etc I would suggest using them when possible, but don't get bogged down trying to debuff a freep because the whole time you will be taking damage without doing much in return (and of course some of our debuffs aren't great to begin with).
    Eh, good flayer wargs can shred /most/ dps. I say most because rks are pretty much always a dps race. But the flayer wargs on my server trait for mitigation and destroy most physical classes.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackzilla1212 View Post
    Eh, good flayer wargs can shred /most/ dps. I say most because rks are pretty much always a dps race. But the flayer wargs on my server trait for mitigation and destroy most physical classes.
    I wasn't specifically talking about dps classes. It is also worth pointing out that I was also speaking about Flayer in a generalised sense as it applies to the warg as a class. As such I stand by my comments. I imagine there are situations where a Flayer warg can be effective, but when looking at it from the point of view of the class as a whole it doesn't offer as much bang for your buck at the moment as it should imho. For example, a low to mid-rank warg probably isn't going to get as much out of Flayer stance as a high ranked warg will.

    I did, however, mention a particular Flayer build that I had been trying myself. It doesn't sound as if the build I was using is the same as the build the wargs you mention are using though.

    As to the point you made I am very pleased to hear that wargs on your server are doing well with Flayer against dps classes. It is hard to draw worthwhile conclusions though since your comments are anecdotal. Could you perhaps expand upon them a bit? What specific setups are those wargs using? What sort of equipment do the freeps have? Are you talking about 1vs1 fights or group fights? Etc.

    Please don't think I am trying to attack your point, I am genuinely interested in finding out what the wargs on your server are doing. Any information you can provide would be most appreciated.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
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    242
    Quote Originally Posted by MrWarg View Post
    I wasn't specifically talking about dps classes. It is also worth pointing out that I was also speaking about Flayer in a generalised sense as it applies to the warg as a class. As such I stand by my comments. I imagine there are situations where a Flayer warg can be effective, but when looking at it from the point of view of the class as a whole it doesn't offer as much bang for your buck at the moment as it should imho. For example, a low to mid-rank warg probably isn't going to get as much out of Flayer stance as a high ranked warg will.

    I did, however, mention a particular Flayer build that I had been trying myself. It doesn't sound as if the build I was using is the same as the build the wargs you mention are using though.

    As to the point you made I am very pleased to hear that wargs on your server are doing well with Flayer against dps classes. It is hard to draw worthwhile conclusions though since your comments are anecdotal. Could you perhaps expand upon them a bit? What specific setups are those wargs using? What sort of equipment do the freeps have? Are you talking about 1vs1 fights or group fights? Etc.

    Please don't think I am trying to attack your point, I am genuinely interested in finding out what the wargs on your server are doing. Any information you can provide would be most appreciated.
    No it's fine. There are a few wargs on my server that only go flayer, so they had to perfect the build. I will ask them myself when they get in game, but I believe it's something like a 4 physical mitigation and 2 morale corruption set up with the appropriate class traits. Some of them only trait like that solo but one of the highest ranked wargs on my server is also a raid leader and stays traited like that because she needs to stay alive. And she is about as hard to bring down as a reaver, more so if you are not a dps class.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by jackzilla1212 View Post
    No it's fine. There are a few wargs on my server that only go flayer, so they had to perfect the build. I will ask them myself when they get in game, but I believe it's something like a 4 physical mitigation and 2 morale corruption set up with the appropriate class traits. Some of them only trait like that solo but one of the highest ranked wargs on my server is also a raid leader and stays traited like that because she needs to stay alive. And she is about as hard to bring down as a reaver, more so if you are not a dps class.
    I have a hard time believing any creep, particularly a flayer warg could put out enough damage to make a dent in even a squishy dps class solo, with no damage increasing corruptions. In the most basic sense, going flayer vs shadow is fairly similar in terms of survivability gained vs dps lost, but that is before you calculate the loss in attack speed from a shadow stance maul crit. Also a primary part of both a flayer and shadow stance wargs arsenal is getting a stun and doing positional damage while their foe cannot fight back, and this is an instance where all the added mits make no difference. A creep with no damage increasing corruptions is like getting hit with a rolled newspaper from what I've seen, I just don't see the meagre gains in mitigations those corruptions provide being remotely worth the loss in damage.

    I'd be very interested in hearing these people chime in, or freeps who have faced them do the same. Since RoR I don't think I've faced a single flayer warg who I think could kill me using all their cooldowns, while i didn't touch a heal or reflect, if I gave them 100 tries. In the same scenario, i there are a few shadow wargs who I think would pull out a win a decent number of times in the same situation.

    Obviously a raid leader needs to prioritize their survival over dps compared to other classes, but that allows them to effectively lead, not effectively contribute as a dps class.
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  7. #7
    Well ...when it comes to corruptions i go for the glass cannon build.

    Morale for power tier 2
    Damage for power tier 2
    and the rest ....critical rating!

    As for the rotation? pretty much the same that you said.
    Shadow....obviusly .

    Wargs pee!! 1st of all , if you have time in your favor ...it doesnt break your stealh and gives a nice debuff on the target.

    Pounce, maul , slow ..and then a spam of claw and the critical response attack (wich i always forget the name :P )
    Debuffs are also very good ...but only when you are fighting classes with high survivality like champions or minstrels.

    Possitional damage and knowing how to move its pretty much they key , especialy if your enemy "doesnt" know how to move...


    as for flayer? i dont like it, wargs are the only creep class that can use stealh, why changing to flyer? you sacrifice a lot of dps for a bit of survivality and no stealh? naa
    but thats my opinion.
    Flyer its a different play stile, and needs special traits and strategy.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/062050000002782cb/signature.png]Norhog[/charsig]

  8. #8
    would any warg mind posting their mitigation values (%s, not ratings) with flayer active, armour trait, and improved flayer? So no mit corruptions or delving pot.

    As far as a dps rotation in shadow:
    Pee
    Pounce
    Maul
    eye rake
    claws
    cripple
    rend
    claws
    rend
    claws
    rend
    claws
    eye rake
    rend


    Add your debuffs and/or a cripple/pounce or cooldowns as you see fit based on opponent.

    If maul didn't crit, use it the moment it comes off cooldown, until it crits.

    Movement is what matters on a warg.

    If you have piercing claws, use that after the first maul, and then use it every time it comes off cd, unless the target is under 9k max morale or so, then ignore the skill.
    Last edited by spelunker; Oct 11 2013 at 11:43 AM.
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    [center]Let our actions speak for themselves. Jinjaah has been pouring over every post in the Bullroarer forum. Please keep in mind that any experiences with previous LOTRO teams are not reflective of the current team, give us a chance[/center]

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    would any warg mind posting their mitigation values (%s, not ratings) with flayer active, armour trait, and improved flayer? So no mit corruptions or delving pot.
    Using the enhanced version of Flayer stance, the Armour Boost trait, and with no buffs or mitigation corruptions, my warg has the following values:

    Physical Mitigation: 47% for Ancient Dwarf, Beleriand & Westernesse damage
    Tactical Mitigation: 45% for acid & fire damage, 46.3% for frost, light & lightning damage, and 52.1% for shadow damage

    Using the standard version of Flayer stance, with the Armour Boost trait, no buffs and no mitigation corruptions, my warg has the following values:

    Physical Mitigation: 41.8% for Ancient Dwarf, Beleriand & Weresternesse damage
    Tactical Mitigation: 39.1% for acid & fire damage, 40.7% for frost, light & lightning damage, and 47.4% for shadow damage

    Note: My warg has both the passive armour traits, which give an extra 767 armour value.

  10. #10
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    Apr 2011
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    Cool

    Thanks for the good info guys.
    I've been at the mercy of men just following orders. Never again.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    124
    I would add that I am now in the mind-set of de-buff before DPS in my solo roaming unless I expect to burn through them almost before the stun wears out.

    I used to be like an earlier poster and think that time taken to de-buff was better spent actually doing DPS but having tested for some time and having spoken to those I fight on the other side at times, I have reverted to always getting off Savage Fangs, Fleas and Snap ASAP in fights.

    It is hard to state an exact rotation as it can vary on the class you face but in general for me (in Shadow) it is SP > Pounce > Maul > Cripple > Savage Fangs > Eye Rake > Snap > Fleas > DPS time! You should now have them well de-buffed (and many freeps I have spoken too particulaly hate Fleas and Snap being on them) and barring resists/avoids also have 2 bleeds ticking away as well. After that it is really about using Maul/Claws/Rend and staying behind them all the time that wins fights.

    If they are a minstrel then Throat Rip comes after Eye Rake. It can be worth using Rabid on Champs you expect to go popping CD's but tbh they often have so much power it doesn't help ^^

    I am back out of favor with Flayer at the moment, preferring to slot Element of Suprise, (which I have previously dissed) the defensive benefits do not outweigh the DPS nerf in my opinion, I run 3 crit, 1 crit protection, HfP2 and DfP2
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