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  1. #1

    since former vips get it free anyway....

    give us the opprutunity to unlock trait slots and swift travel account-wide. we can already unlock the gold cap and inventory bags account wide. is it really that important to get my $15 for a single month vip when I want to create new toons? let us acount-wide unlock everything former vips get so we don't have to keep subbing for a month and losing out on most of the store sales for that month. turbine/wb will get just as much money selling tp and expansions as they get from the single month subscribers
    for those about to die, we shall loot you!

  2. #2
    You have to realize that dollars are much more valuable to Turbine than Turbine Points. Turbine Points are a restricted currency only usable within Lotro. Turbine can't used Turbine Points to pay their employees or Federal Taxes. Plus Turbine Points are created by us playing the game via deed completion. Turbine points are given away as stipend for being a subscriber.

    Turbine Points only generate value to Turbine when we buy Turbine Points with dollars. Spending Turbine Points in the Lotro Store whether they be bought, free or subscriber stipend is no value to Turbine unless the usage results in us giving Turbine dollars to get more Turbine Points.

    My personal opinion. Turbine made a terrible mistake when they allowed us to permanently unlock these features by going VIP for our existing characters. These features should be VIP rental. When you drop to Premium you lose all access until you pay Turbine Points to permanently unlock them on a character basis. Or rent them again by subscribing.

    The lock virtually everything is the F2P Swtor implementation. Subscribers that drop down to Preferred do not get to keep much.
    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  3. #3
    well then instead of the tp store put it in the cash shop(for real money), for $10-$15 sell a code that unlocks swift travel and trait slots on all toons present and future, combine it with the samwise gamgees pack that unlocks an inventory bag and the gold cap, and those of us who want to stay premium and buy the content when it goes on sale instead of renting it can still create new toons without having to sub for a month just to do it.
    for those about to die, we shall loot you!

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Magstar View Post
    well then instead of the tp store put it in the cash shop(for real money), for $10-$15 sell a code that unlocks swift travel and trait slots on all toons present and future, combine it with the samwise gamgees pack that unlocks an inventory bag and the gold cap, and those of us who want to stay premium and buy the content when it goes on sale instead of renting it can still create new toons without having to sub for a month just to do it.
    Not asking for much are we? Think of all the revenue they would lose if they offered this. Why would a person remain VIP if we could just buy a code to give us what a subscription does? If I were to stop paying for my subscription I lose swift travel, not sure about the trait slots though.

    Also....I'm not sure if you know this or not, going by your OP , but EVERYONE has to buy expansions, no 1 gets those for free.
    Last edited by Jurny; Oct 14 2013 at 12:16 AM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Jurny View Post
    Not asking for much are we? Think of all the revenue they would lose if they offered this. Why would a person remain VIP if we could just buy a code to give us what a subscription does? If I were to stop paying for my subscription I lose swift travel, not sure about the trait slots though.

    Also....I'm not sure if you know this or not, going by your OP , but EVERYONE has to buy expansions, no 1 gets those for free.
    I think you missed the point completely, I want a way to get what I get on my toons from having had vip, bags which we can get, goldcap, which we can get, and accountwide traits and swift travel, for any toon I create. That's not circumventing paying a monthly subscription fee, just the obligitory single month. And please quote me where I said anyone should or already gets free expansions. They're getting their revenue for subscribers that stay subscribers.
    for those about to die, we shall loot you!

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Magstar View Post
    I think you missed the point completely, I want a way to get what I get on my toons from having had vip, bags which we can get, goldcap, which we can get, and accountwide traits and swift travel, for any toon I create. That's not circumventing paying a monthly subscription fee, just the obligitory single month. And please quote me where I said anyone should or already gets free expansions. They're getting their revenue for subscribers that stay subscribers.
    If I understand you correctly, you are asking that premium subscribers get all the same perks, as that of a VIP subscriber does, am I right?

    In other words, you want to be able to unlock trait slots, swift travel for all your characters and any you may make in the future, just by paying 1 monthly premium and buying something from the store?

    If they would do this, why would any 1 remain VIP? The only thing basically left is rested XP, and I highly doubt that any 1 would remain VIP just for that, if they could buy a code or whatever from the store.
    Thus, Turbine losing all that revenue.

    See my point now?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty View Post

    My personal opinion. Turbine made a terrible mistake when they allowed us to permanently unlock these features by going VIP for our existing characters. These features should be VIP rental. When you drop to Premium you lose all access until you pay Turbine Points to permanently unlock them on a character basis. Or rent them again by subscribing.
    I share this same opinion.

    Once you stop subscribing, you should lose all the added perks you got, until you subscribe again. It's really unfair to those of us that do pay monthly/yearly to be VIP.

    They need to close that loop hole that so many people take advantage of.

  8. #8
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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by Magstar View Post
    give us the opprutunity to unlock trait slots and swift travel account-wide. we can already unlock the gold cap and inventory bags account wide. is it really that important to get my $15 for a single month vip when I want to create new toons? let us acount-wide unlock everything former vips get so we don't have to keep subbing for a month and losing out on most of the store sales for that month. turbine/wb will get just as much money selling tp and expansions as they get from the single month subscribers
    Are you concious that VIP, premiums & lifetimers have to pay services with real cash to get that account status? We don't get anything free.
    Is this Alternate Playable Character Disorder? :

    Check my Kinship at Gladden server: The Fate of Middle Earth

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Magstar View Post
    what I'm asking for is a way to unlock through cash or tp: swift travel, trait slots, goldcap, 3rd, 4th, and 5th bags on all new toons without having to pay for a month of vip for every new toon I want to create.
    (Emphasis added by me.)

    And this is exactly where Turbine might lose money with this suggestion. They don't get 15$ from people who go VIP for the umlocks, they earn 15$ from people who want the unlocks every time they roll up a new bunch of characters. So for an account-wide unlock of ex-VIP perks like you're asking for, Turbine would have to set a price-point (in real money, not in TP) that would cover the average amount of subscription fees people would otherwise pay over time for their accounts.

    I feel like three one-month fees (45$) might be the minimum to cover this, but Turbine might prefer to set the price to five or six one-month fees (75$ to 90$) depending on what their data tells them about the average VIP behaviour of their playerbase.

    Would you be willing to pay that much in cash for the priviledge of having permanent ex-VIP unlocks for every character you may ever create? Would enough other people be willing to pay that much to make it worthwhile for Turbine?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Magstar View Post
    give us the opprutunity to unlock trait slots and swift travel account-wide. we can already unlock the gold cap and inventory bags account wide. is it really that important to get my $15 for a single month vip when I want to create new toons? let us acount-wide unlock everything former vips get so we don't have to keep subbing for a month and losing out on most of the store sales for that month. turbine/wb will get just as much money selling tp and expansions as they get from the single month subscribers
    Former VIP dont unlock these benefits account-wite, only for character they played while being VIP. thats a small, but important distinction. If Ex-VIP creates new chgaracter, it has all limits of Premium player. So thats an incentive to resubscribe later, if you create new characters.

    Doubt Turbine will do cut a branch they are sitting upon.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/2521c000000163bef/01003/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
    Thank you, Turbine, for listening and giving us an opt-out of FE! Good work!

  11. #11
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    As far as SWTOR is concerned, that game is still on a downward slope. Just as an advance warning, don't be shocked if that game dies.

    As far as LOTRO is concerned, if an SWTOR version of F2P/Premium/VIP was implemented, there would be pretty much no Premium. Almost nothing is given to Premiums, so what's the point in even having a Premium status?

    And yes, I have been VIP for both SWTOR and LOTRO. Been VIP for LOTRO for a long time. Quit VIP for SWTOR very quickly as that game strangled my friends who could not afford VIP (and even with VIP the game is pretty horrible). Now we don't play it at all.

    That game isn't even a true F2P game. You can't get to level-cap without purchasing the content. Purchasing the content to play the content is obvious. But being incapable of reaching level-cap without paying means that it is not a true F2P game. It is merely a very glorified trial version. I could play in the trial all the way to lvl 15 (all content to that point). Now I could (if I was F2P) play up to lvl 50.

    The Rise of the Hutt Cartel was the first expansion, and it will be the last one I ever bought. I even paid for it as a VIPer. Now VIPers get it free, and SWTOR didn't even refund those who had purchased it a few months previously (launch in April 2013 IIRC; as of Sept 2013, now free to VIPs). What's more, those who purchased the xpac (or pre-ordered it) months ago get pretty much nothing, whereas new subscribers get about a thousand extra Cartel Coins which were NOT offered to the loyal players who purchased it when it first game out. That would be like making everyone buy HD and then Turbine giving it free to all current VIPers (and throwing in an extra thousand TPs) without even refunding the $40+ that many of those same players already paid.
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  12. #12
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    Just pointing out former VIP must go VIP again to get that stuff unlocked if they roll a new alt after dropping VIP.

    Carry on!

    EDIT And as I re-read, I see this was already pointed out = )

    /sigh

    Carry on!

  13. #13
    No offense to the opening poster but if you want to really utilize TP in the way most efficient to survive in the game with the least amount of real life cash flowed into the game then imho you should really research what is available to f2p, premuim and VIP first before you ever put cash into the game to begin with. As someone who started f2p (and went to lvl 46 or 47), eventually received a gift sub from my wife/kids and now "own" all areas, expansions and skirms but wildermore and 3 skirms -- I'd highly advice skimping by on 3 bags and a 2 gold cap for as absolutely long as you can (utilize housing storage and stacks of items to keep extra cash available). I only invested tp for a long time into content (to earn more tp account wide since if you are desperate for tp you can start toons on other servers) and extra toon slots. I also only bought those on sale. When I received that first 3 month sub (which my wife had told me I was getting) then that saved me from having to spend a ton of points on virtue slots, gold cap and AH slots. Obviously you have to work for it if you want to skimp by with little to no cash input.

    One of the great things about this game is you can choose your path not only in the game but in how much you want to invest. f2p isn't for everyone just like pouring tons of cash into the game isn't an option for everyone either. Just research and choose wisely what best fits your situation.

  14. #14
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    Keep in mind that Turbine did take LOTRO free to play, thus they need to stick to their word and leave some goodies out for the FTP people, "closing the loop" would make things a little tough for FTP people and Turbine would lose a great deal of their player base. That being said, I do believe that you should have to subscribe to unlock the fast travel and traits, but once you unsubscribe I think you should be able to at least keep the trait slots open on the characters that you had at the time.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by ElffriendNick View Post
    Keep in mind that Turbine did take LOTRO free to play, thus they need to stick to their word and leave some goodies out for the FTP people, "closing the loop" would make things a little tough for FTP people and Turbine would lose a great deal of their player base. That being said, I do believe that you should have to subscribe to unlock the fast travel and traits, but once you unsubscribe I think you should be able to at least keep the trait slots open on the characters that you had at the time.
    I really dislike when people make assumptions for others, but here I go:

    I'm not really sure it would matter much to Turbine if they would lose some of the FTP player base. I'm talking about those FTP people that don't spend 1 cent ever. I'm not sure which you are talking about. There are so many people that know how to work that loop hole, they take advantage of it. I know quite a few people that make FTP accounts, then subscribe for 1 month to get those trait slots and swift travel/fast travel then drop the subscription and then TP grind for everything else they want, not spending another dime of real money on those accounts. Although I'm sure that revenue can add up through out all the servers, so it may be something that would bother Turbine. Who knows.


    I do agree with this part of your post "I do believe that you should have to subscribe to unlock the fast travel and traits, but once you unsubscribe I think you should be able to at least keep the trait slots open on the characters that you had at the time".

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jurny View Post
    I really dislike when people make assumptions for others, but here I go:

    I'm not really sure it would matter much to Turbine if they would lose some of the FTP player base. I'm talking about those FTP people that don't spend 1 cent ever. I'm not sure which you are talking about. There are so many people that know how to work that loop hole, they take advantage of it. I know quite a few people that make FTP accounts, then subscribe for 1 month to get those trait slots and swift travel/fast travel then drop the subscription and then TP grind for everything else they want, not spending another dime of real money on those accounts. Although I'm sure that revenue can add up through out all the servers, so it may be something that would bother Turbine. Who knows.


    I do agree with this part of your post "I do believe that you should have to subscribe to unlock the fast travel and traits, but once you unsubscribe I think you should be able to at least keep the trait slots open on the characters that you had at the time".
    I have spent a great deal of money on this game, I consider it part of my contribution to help this game in my own way. I used to be a VIP and now that I have cleared those darn college payments have been taken care of for the semester I'll probably resubscribe. However, there are many who cannot afford to make VIP payments each month. As I said before, if Turbine is going to pursue a FTP model, then they need to make their game a little more appealing to the "freebie" crowd. I personally believe that Turbine should return to a subscription model, I believe that a steady flow of cash would ensure higher quality content. However, LOTRO is an old game and I know that people go on about how there is such a great crowd of the faithful, but if that was the case then I think that I would see them on the servers. I'm not saying that the world is dead, but I do know that if they cut off the non-VIP players then Turbine would have some issues. I agree, there are freeloaders out there, but these people are insignificant as they do not contribute in any way. The non-VIP players that I am backing are those who spend money to buy Turbine Points, this demographic is the lifeblood of Turbine in my opinion and unless Turbine really steps up their game plan and makes VIP worth paying for, you're going to see a lot more people switching to this pay as you go method. As I said before, I am probably going to go VIP and contribute in that manner, but unfortunately, not a lot of people are as committed to sticking to a subscription.

  17. #17
    First, something I want to clarify:

    If I understand you correctly, you are asking that premium subscribers get all the same perks, as that of a VIP subscriber does, am I right?

    In other words, you want to be able to unlock trait slots, swift travel for all your characters and any you may make in the future, just by paying 1 monthly premium and buying something from the store?

    If they would do this, why would any 1 remain VIP? The only thing basically left is rested XP, and I highly doubt that any 1 would remain VIP just for that, if they could buy a code or whatever from the store.


    You are not understanding correctly. Most VIP perks are exclusive to VIP members - the TC is not talking about any of these.

    What the guy wants are the "ex-VIP Premium perks" to be made into Turbine store account unlocks. This includes the swift travel routes, 5 AH post slots, 20 sots of Shared Storage, trait slots, and the gold cap and bags. This DOES NOT include at least 4 Eriador zones' worth of quest packs, rest XP, several skirmishes and instances, the ability to play as Freeps in PvMP, and other things I'm probably forgetting. "Ex-VIP Premium" is a LOT closer to Premium than true VIP status, in terms of content.

    That having been clarified: I agree with the rest of you. When it comes down to it, simply subscribing for a month is a SMALL price to pay for these perks (and the perks associated with upgrading from Free to Premium). And if you DON'T want to pay real cash? All of these things can be earned if you farm enough TP, anyway. It will take longer to do it one character at a time, obviously. But if you want it badly enough, then these are your two choices: Farm that much extra to get the job done, OR spend $15 to go VIP for a single month. If it's worth neither the time & effort NOR the paltry sum of fifteen bucks, then you don't really need it, do you?

    As for Yula's point, I do see the point there (despite the fact that I benefit from ex-VIP status myself), but it still makes a certain degree of sense for SOME of these ex-VIP perks to exist. Trait points, at least for any that you do earn, would be a good example - if you get to level X and get a trait point, you might have something slotted in it when VIP expires, and it would make no sense to take that away. (Just as it would make no sense to take away Riding skill, which of course they don't do.) Certain "earned while still VIP" benefits would only make sense to keep.

    Overall, though, this whole concept of Free-status players wanting to get more and more for less and less IS a disturbing trend, but one that Turbine knows would be a bad move to follow up on. As I already stated, Free players CAN get every last single thing with TP, if they farm it enough. If that seems too grindy for them, they can BUY TP, which will also bump them up to Premium, or they can outright subscribe.

    But saying that the departure of the Free population would be a "loss" is a bit much. OK, yes, the player base would shrink, immensely. Possibly drastically. And that would hurt the game - but not Turbine. They would continue making the exact same amount of revenue as before. Because Turbine does not make a penny off Free-status players. Not one cent. (Because, by definition, once that penny is spent, they're no longer Free players.)

    Turbine making their game available to people for free is a charitable act, in and of itself. They don't HAVE to let people who never paid play their game. MANY games require at LEAST a purchase (Buy-to-play), while several still work quite well on the Subscription model.

    And BEFORE anyone says this makes Turbine "slave to the almighty dollar", consider that as a company, they have expenses: payroll, taxes, upkeep/overhead, stuff like that. They don't make enough money, they lay people off, or even fold under. And where would LOTRO be then?
    (I should probably change this to a real sig now, but I'm busy playing LotRO.)

  18. #18
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jurny View Post
    They need to close that loop hole that so many people take advantage of.
    I don't believe this *is* a loophole, per se. The 1-month sub unlocks, I mean. I think it's working as intended.

    Turbine knows that the most important thing you can do with a FtP player is get them to spend money, any money, that first time. People who are drawn to the "free" aspect of the game will happily jump through all kinds of hoops to avoid spending any money on it (understandably), but once that first real-money purchase is made, it becomes MUCH easier to entice the player to pay again, and again, and again. Yes, I'm sure there are a huge number of free players who use the 1-month sub unlock strategically, with the intention to never again spend real-world money on the game. Turbine is smart to bait that purchase well with plenty of goodies. They know their odds of getting regular, steady cash from a free player goes up exponentially after the player has "bought in," even if they never sub again.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0c21400000002b366/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

    [COLOR="lightblue"]~.~ [I]Real LOTRO PvP happens on the AH.[/I] ~.~[/COLOR]

 

 

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