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  1. #201
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    Its kind of sad, when you think about it... That you need to encourage people with free stuff, that is pretty worthless, in order for them to donate a couple dollars to a children's hospital... The donation should be a reward in its self...

    What kind of person shrugs the idea of donating at first, but decides to do so after he learns of the prizes... If there was a significant increase in the donations after sapience announced this, we might learn that Lotro community isnt as great as we all thought it was...
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  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by whosjgalt View Post
    Aaron Paul's (the star of Breaking Bad)
    Co-star, Bryan Cranston was the star. In fact Aarons character (Jesse) was originally scripted to die before the end of the first series
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  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by zagreb000 View Post
    Its kind of sad, when you think about it... That you need to encourage people with free stuff, that is pretty worthless, in order for them to donate a couple dollars to a children's hospital... The donation should be a reward in its self...

    What kind of person shrugs the idea of donating at first, but decides to do so after he learns of the prizes... If there was a significant increase in the donations after sapience announced this, we might learn that Lotro community isnt as great as we all thought it was...
    And ? The money stays the same no matter why it is given.
    Nothing here matters.

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by zagreb000 View Post
    Its kind of sad, when you think about it... That you need to encourage people with free stuff, that is pretty worthless, in order for them to donate a couple dollars to a children's hospital... The donation should be a reward in its self...

    What kind of person shrugs the idea of donating at first, but decides to do so after he learns of the prizes... If there was a significant increase in the donations after sapience announced this, we might learn that Lotro community isnt as great as we all thought it was...
    Zagreb, I'm not sure if you are saying that the people that donate because of the free stuff are pretty worthless, or if the free stuff is pretty worthless. Or maybe you meant both!

    Nevertheless, I choose to believe that there is, at the very least, some tiny bit of motivation to do some good, and that is good enough for me. Otherwise, my world would be very bleak indeed.

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albaa View Post
    Zagreb, I'm not sure if you are saying that the people that donate because of the free stuff are pretty worthless, or if the free stuff is pretty worthless. Or maybe you meant both!

    Nevertheless, I choose to believe that there is, at the very least, some tiny bit of motivation to do some good, and that is good enough for me. Otherwise, my world would be very bleak indeed.
    I was talking about the "prizes"... All i said was that you shouldnt need an incentive to do good...
    There is no "my world"... it just might be a bleak place, no matter what you decide to tell yourself...

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorwyn99 View Post
    And ? The money stays the same no matter why it is given.
    So you are not concerned at all that external motivation in the form of frivolous prizes is required, so some people would help a fellow human being, in this case a childrens hospital..
    I find that alarming... A society that lost its sense of empathy and is lacking altruistic qualities is a degenerate society, in my opinion....
    Last edited by zagreb000; Oct 29 2013 at 10:03 AM.
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  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by zagreb000 View Post
    So you are not concerned at all that external motivation in the form of frivolous prizes is required, so some people would help a fellow human being, in this case a childrens hospital..
    I find that alarming... A society that lost its sense of empathy and is lacking altruistic qualities is a degenerate society, in my opinion....
    Well i could sit here all day and bemoan the wrong of humanity or i could be happy for the hospital and sapience to raise that amount of money, i chose the latter.
    Nothing here matters.

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorwyn99 View Post
    Well i could sit here all day and bemoan the wrong of humanity or i could be happy for the hospital and sapience to raise that amount of money, i chose the latter.
    You are right, why waste time concerning our selves with complex issues... Lets all be happy campers and turn our heads when someone points out an error in human behavior.... I get it, your way is much easier...

    Oh and you falsely portray the situation with your black and white thinking... You can actually do both at the same time.. Discuss complex issues and be happy for the money raised.....
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  8. #208
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    In my opinion, it's not about the rewards. It's about awareness.

    We see charities and causes everywhere and are presented with every opportunity possible to support and contribute to them. And most people probably would, if they could. The rewards have a function: they create awareness among people who might have spent that money on a cheeseburger, a movie or another cause, but have now been made aware of a cause because they are in the target group of the rewards and can make an informed choice of whether to support it or not.

    Do some people donate just for the sake of the rewards or 'lottery ticket'? No doubt. That is an informed choice as well, but not the purpose of the rewards - nor, do I believe, the incentive for most donors. The fact that the majority of people actually donate more than the minimum required for rewards should speak for itself.
    Retired. My LOTRO projects will no longer be maintained.

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whiteberry_Laurelin View Post
    In my opinion, it's not about the rewards. It's about awareness.

    .....but not the purpose of the rewards
    You are looking at this from the point of view of the the ones giving out the reward... What you said is not in dispute. If i was in Sapience shoes, i would do the same thing (knowing human nature) The thread raises awareness, but the prizes anticipate human nature....... What i am criticizing is the receiving side.... Im not sure if Sapience made a thread on this topic before without adding prizes (i have only seen his sig).. If he did it would still make us the targeted group without ever offering us prizes....
    Last edited by zagreb000; Oct 29 2013 at 11:08 AM.
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  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by zagreb000 View Post
    You are looking at this from the point of view of the the ones giving out the reward... What you said is not in dispute. If i was in Sapience shoes, i would do the same thing.... What i am criticizing is the reciving side.... Im not sure if Sapience made a thread on this topic before without adding prizes (i have only seen his sig).. If he did it would still make us the targeted group without ever offering us prizes....
    I do realise what you say: that the receivers just want rewards for their money and on top of it feel good about having donated to a cause. You find it hypocritical.

    What I am saying is that I believe the rewards are helping in making people aware of the cause, and that it is predominantly the awareness makes them donate. Not the rewards.
    Retired. My LOTRO projects will no longer be maintained.

  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whiteberry_Laurelin View Post
    I do realise what you say: that the receivers just want rewards for their money and on top of it feel good about having donated to a cause. You find it hypocritical.

    What I am saying is that I believe the rewards are what make people aware of the cause, and that it is predominantly the awareness makes them donate. Not the rewards.
    I added this before you wrote the response... "The thread raises awareness, but the prizes anticipate human nature"... Its how i see it... We should aspire to more...
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  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by zagreb000 View Post
    You are right, why waste time concerning our selves with complex issues... Lets all be happy campers and turn our heads when someone points out an error in human behavior.... I get it, your way is much easier...

    Oh and you falsely portray the situation with your black and white thinking... You can actually do both at the same time.. Discuss complex issues and be happy for the money raised.....
    I'm not sure if the Lotro forum is the right place to discuss human morality. I do not believe humans are or ever have been very altruistic with some exceptions. Nothing new and not a downfall of society, imo just human nature.

    Ah i guess we agree on that. You can aspire for more, you can't make other do so and calling them hypocritical or bad people will just make them close their wallets.
    Last edited by Thorwyn99; Oct 29 2013 at 11:15 AM.
    Nothing here matters.

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorwyn99 View Post
    I'm not sure if the Lotro forum is the right place to discuss human morality. I do not believe humans are or ever have been very altruistic with some exceptions. Nothing new and not a downfall of society, imo just human nature.
    But yet it seems to be a good place to post a thread asking for donations. And you did not criticize Sapience choice to post it.. Everything i said was connected to this thread and is on topic...

    Maybe not a downfall, but surely is a negative trend...
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  14. #214
    Sapience is offline Former Community Manager & Harbinger of Soon
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    Quote Originally Posted by zagreb000 View Post
    But yet it seems to be a good place to post a thread asking for donations. And you did not criticize Sapience choice to post it.. Everything i said was connected to this thread and is on topic...

    Maybe not a downfall, but surely is a negative trend...
    I think I agree this isn't really the place for this discussion. If am in game title or my shaving my beard or coloring it, or the 1 in 1200 chance of winning a life time account motivates someone to donate $5 they might not have, then I'm 10,000% in favor of it. If at the end of the day embarrassing myself, others who have volunteered to embarrass themselves along with me, or donated time and items to help make the numbers go higher results in more money coming in for the stated purpose of healing sick kids? I'll do it all day long and twice on Sunday.

    The fact that some people, despite the incentives still choose to donate anonymously, without leaving any contact information what-so-ever (and thus removing themselves intentionally from any incentives) says there are absolutely people who have donated and would have regardless.

    From a purely cynical view you can argue that no one is altruistic because at the end of the day giving makes us feel good. Thus, there's "something in it for me" when I give. I feel good.

    So, moving on as that discussion is now officiall over and back on topic to the fund raising we're doing here.

    $480 away from $35000! We're less than $2k away from doubling last year's total. This is pretty amazing stuff guys!

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    So, moving on as that discussion is now officiall over and back on topic to the fund raising we're doing here.

    $480 away from $35000! We're less than $2k away from doubling last year's total. This is pretty amazing stuff guys!
    And the team is less than $20 away from $40K!!!

  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    So, moving on as that discussion is now officially over and back on topic to the fund raising we're doing here.
    Officially over? I hope its clear that you are pulling out the "forums mod" card here to close the discussion, because nothing you just said in any way touches on the points i made... (its clear to everyone that there is no such thing as a truly "selfless" deed, but its also obvious that incentives take you far beyond that point)

    But i get it, the less people think about this, the more they donate... Im willing to delete all my posts if it will help even the slightest...
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  17. #217
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    Free stuff?

    If I win the Lifetime Subscription can I give it to someone else? I already have one...
    If I get some in-game title, do I have to use it? I like "Easily Lost" (only title I use...)
    If I get not 1 but 2 in-game mounts, can I ride them both at once? Will they go as fast as the 68%/250 hp mounts I have now or will they be 62%/200 hp mounts as they are shown?
    If I win a Helms Deep Platinum copy, can I give it to the same person I give the lifetime subscription I won? (I already have the Helms Deep Expansion)

    I already have the warm fuzzy feeling I get from not only helping some kids, but making those that get joy from the humiliation of others happy... even if that humiliation is self-inflicted... I am neither a kid or one who enjoys the humiliation of others... OK, not a kid chronologically, mentally is another question...

    I am proud that Sapience is far above the #2 collector of donations and I wish I had the funds to donate in the name of the other Team Turbine members to boost the rest of them, as well as the team total... but I fear that is not happening this year... at least not from me...

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edrogar View Post
    Co-star, Bryan Cranston was the star. In fact Aarons character (Jesse) was originally scripted to die before the end of the first series
    True! Glad they ended it the way they did!
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  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    $480 away from $35000! We're less than $2k away from doubling last year's total. This is pretty amazing stuff guys!
    I am amazed at the amount of money raised for this charity; like ... wow! The reason I got behind this in the first place is my wife is currently battling Colon Cancer. Moreover, many in KoV are aware of this, and hence our involvement to help this charity.

    I personally saw the ravages in the Chemo Ward every time we went (two weeks ago, we just finished six grueling months of Chemo), and thankfully, I have yet to see any kids there. However, there are teens, young and old folks and people of all types sitting in the chairs. Simply stated, Chemo can be disgusting, almost worse than the Cancer itself.

    Moreover, we turned to certain very well-known Cancer Societies, and found out they offered little guidance, if anything, to Cancer survivors and instead, only finance research. When we were first diagnosed, we believed it to be a death sentence, and turned anywhere we could; thankfully, certain hospitals are equipped to deal with this familial catastrophe and provide a path to fight this disease. Others do not. There is a VAST difference in medical care for this type of disease, and thankfully, we have been treating at one of the best hospitals in the country.

    From my personal experience, Cancer is simply terrifying, far worse than any Balrog, and more insidious to boot. The pains and hardships my wife has gone through are agonizing for a husband to watch; hence the reason I requested help to support this charity from my Kin, the Knights of Valour of Vilya.

    Thankfully, we were able to step up to the plate to assist in some small fashion. Anything to assist Kids who must endure this type of hardship is worth doing, and Rick, it is for this reason that I am so glad you chose this charity. KoV will continue to raise money for this event and hopefully, knock other contenders out of the park! I am sorry to mention my personal ordeals, but when people become concerned about ANYTHING other than what is being done to help the kids, I think we lose what is important. Yes, I want you to lead a Vilya raid to bring awareness of the charity to our server; Yes, I want to see KoV and other kinships to donate as much as possible; Yes, the prizes are cute, but simply stated: Who cares about them? Just to be sure one child could be kept out of a chemo chair for his lifetime, is simply… amazing. Moreover, just to be sure a family could get treatment, where they might otherwise not, is outstanding. I just personally wanted to thank you, Rick, for starting this event! Thank you again.

    Sorry, I’ll get off my soap box now.
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  20. #220
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    And we hit 35K

    Congratulations, Team Turbine!

    *eta* SHAKE, SHAKE, SHAKE!!!
    Last edited by Bel-Astarte; Oct 30 2013 at 12:32 PM.
    LilyRose of Gladden, Mistress of the Rangers of the West Kinship. Come check out our kin at rangerswest.guildlaunch.com.

  21. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by whosjgalt View Post
    True! Glad they ended it the way they did!
    Because he was messing around in the lab before he collapsed i was really expecting a big boom taking him and the police out, so was a little disappointing. However the ending wasn't too bad, if you think about it all we see is him collapsing and the police coming in, nothing actually showed him die so they've kind of left it open for a return, maybe a special some time.

    Erm back on topic, $35k wow that's nice, well done to everyone donating, it's a great charity.
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  22. #222

    Thumbs up Awesome!!!!

    This is such a great cause, and to see that the $35,000 goal has been reached is just FANTASTIC!!!!! It makes me want to do a Happy Hobbit dance!! hehe

  23. #223
    Sapience is offline Former Community Manager & Harbinger of Soon
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    Quote Originally Posted by whosjgalt View Post
    Moreover, just to be sure a family could get treatment, where they might otherwise not, is outstanding. I just personally wanted to thank you, Rick, for starting this event! Thank you again.

    Sorry, I’ll get off my soap box now.
    Nope, get back up there and let everyone know. Voices make dollars. It's stories like yours that drive people like me to find ways to do more.

    Actually, I spent an amazing hour with a rep from Boston Children's today and I have to say, as much as I already knew I learned a lot more. I think the 'we need more power' moment came for me today when she pulled out a premie blood pressure cuff. It fight, tightly, around my pinky. It looked like something you would get in an action figure package. But it had the same purpose as the full sized blood pressure cuffs we all know. It was one of those, "we need ALL the money" moments.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jawl View Post
    If I win the Lifetime Subscription can I give it to someone else? I already have one...
    If I get some in-game title, do I have to use it? I like "Easily Lost" (only title I use...)
    If I get not 1 but 2 in-game mounts, can I ride them both at once? Will they go as fast as the 68%/250 hp mounts I have now or will they be 62%/200 hp mounts as they are shown?
    If I win a Helms Deep Platinum copy, can I give it to the same person I give the lifetime subscription I won? (I already have the Helms Deep Expansion)

    I already have the warm fuzzy feeling I get from not only helping some kids, but making those that get joy from the humiliation of others happy... even if that humiliation is self-inflicted... I am neither a kid or one who enjoys the humiliation of others... OK, not a kid chronologically, mentally is another question...

    I am proud that Sapience is far above the #2 collector of donations and I wish I had the funds to donate in the name of the other Team Turbine members to boost the rest of them, as well as the team total... but I fear that is not happening this year... at least not from me...
    1 yes. Someone would probably be very happy if you did that.
    2 No, you don't. You can just keep it in your list. You don't have to equip it.
    3 lol no.
    4 yes you can give it to anyone you like.


    So this is like the third or fouth time today someone has said they're proud of me or things along those lines. I just want to say that, while I appreciate the sentiment, I'm really just a guy with a big flashing sign saying, "Put your money over here because it can do amazing things when you do." The people you should be proud of, the people who I think are worthy of the praise are the people who clicked the "Support Me" button and put down their $5 or $500 or whatever amount. All 1300+ (and counting) of you.

    So yeah, I'll keep rallying the troops and as long as you all keep hitting the goals we'll crank this thing up and see how high it can go.

  24. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    So this is like the third or fouth time today someone has said they're proud of me or things along those lines. I just want to say that, while I appreciate the sentiment, I'm really just a guy with a big flashing sign saying, "Put your money over here because it can do amazing things when you do." The people you should be proud of, the people who I think are worthy of the praise are the people who clicked the "Support Me" button and put down their $5 or $500 or whatever amount. All 1300+ (and counting) of you.

    So yeah, I'll keep rallying the troops and as long as you all keep hitting the goals we'll crank this thing up and see how high it can go.
    But Sapience, some of us wouldn't have realized that the opportunity existed to do this. Who knows, maybe next year you inspire someone else, who also raises money for a hospital in their home state, and the giving increases by that much more. LORTO is a charitable community; there are folks on Landy who are reinacting the walk to Rivendell for Child's Play, folks who also credit you with helping them out. Rare is the person that is willing to stand out there with the big flashing sign. Rarer still is the person that actively motivates a community to contribute, who gives freely to assist those in need, that shows true leadership not with words, but with actions.

    Or to quote Gandalf from the Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey, "Saruman believes it is only great power that can hold evil in check, but that is not what I have found. I've found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay... small acts of kindness, and love." Thank you for organizing it.

  25. #225
    Thanks for making this happen.
    Donated 25$
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