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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by andracy View Post
    Not scalling one instance is bad because ppl forget that instance if is low level (like GA trio) and it is shame since like all old good stuff, those instances had good tactics and provided us with an nice quality content.
    Scalling the instances bad, like was the case with all recently scalled instances:
    GB Maze, Thadur, Sambrog, Annuminas trio, is even more bad because:
    - bad scalling ruined the fun of those instances;
    - ppl have the impression now that they are very good and amazing players since they can do OE or Sambrog challenge.

    The only OK rewamp/scaled instance was Fornost, who is still ok. The rest are an shame. Just remember, pre U9, NO ONE was doing Sambrog. Now, Sammy is an joke. Like all scaled instances, the amount of wounds/poisons as damage is ridiculous, you take wounds of 150-200 damage?! Bad scalling make ppl not even bother to buy pots for potabble effects. Bad scalling make ppl not use food for icpr/icmr, resistance food, use scrolls. Only thing still used is hope tokens for ... you know why, more dps . Bad scalling transformed all the instances in an dps fest, thing who encouraged having groups with only 5 champs and one cappy, more than enought, because you dont need tactics anymore, CC, intrerupt things, offhealing and so on. So, before U9, all instances was ok, you had the feeling that doing one challenge was indeed, an challenge. Now, except some cases (LT and SS), you dont have that feeling anymore.

    School/library, dam, you can 2 man them. BTW, why they dont fix the exploit in school? Everyone know about him, everyone is doing, no one is fixing.

    ITA cluster. Best last cluster. Not very good scaled, but better than GB and Annuminas.
    Good scaled was BG and OD as raids. Still an pleasure to go there. I hope we will see them at 95 as well.

    Erebor raids ... I am not gonna say anything about them. Veni, vidi, vici. Return there for fun in an friday evening? No, you better get an team and go in Rift or DN. That was fun. I dont want to see them anymore in HD.

    Yes, i want scaled some instances. I want them all. Old content will be always better than new one. On that time the accent was made on fun, not like now on speed. In the same time, I would like that the creators to put accent on new stuff and not spending time with old ones. Though choice.

    OFC will be ppl who will be very offended, that i am an elitist, that not all the ppl did all the Challenges and they deserve the right to do it, that not all the ppl make part from one raiding kin and so on. I will remember though that every instance have 2 tiers and one challenge. Not all the ppl can do the CH, so that is why we have the tiers.

    Doesn't sound elitist or ridiculous to me at all. A very good post. I'm not sure I want all 6 man content to be ridiculously difficult, but yes certainly lnishing mistakes or demanding more from us than sambrog did this time round.

    The first boss fight at bells requires paying attention, atleast how the adds worked meant it wasnt mindless. from my experience it was much harder to do for Pugs than the actual "challenge". even if someone killed the adds and made him invulnerable it didnt create a wipe, Simply delayed the inevitable.

    All in all a better mix of difficulty very few sambrog level stuff and nerf rewards. more bells level stuff rewards for that seemed good seals wise (not sure about class golds) and having some very difficult stuff but rewarding ++ so theres a nice carrot tempting you to put up with high risk of failure.

  2. #27
    This offers a lot more endgame than RoR ever did at launch. That's why I'm not complaining.

    Compare it with Hytbold: Aiding the Eastemnet...It was a dull solo grind with no group options (unless you count the massive farm trains in Cliving). Only thing I enjoyed about that was the hobby horse.

    Only group content RoR offered at launch was a few warbands, eventually you could do them solo. There was old skraids as well. Complete torture.

    I'm actually pleased with Big Battles, getting 1 new raid and 1 new 6-man already at launch, is more than I ever expected. Should be enough to keep me entertained for a while. Seems they listened a tiny bit to us groupers, at least endgame is not a pure solo grind.

    If it goes well, I'm sure they bring out more grouped BB-instances.

    I do love endgame progression raiding and the competitive and gear-driven play style that comes with it. But there are other games offering that. I doubt Lotro will ever favour hardcore groupers again, so I'm playing another MMO to get that bit endgame (and creative housing, that Lotro also lacks). One game cant offer everything, have to enjoy Lotro for what it is really. I wasn't going to bother with HD, but actually changed my mind after reading about Big Battles. Sounds like a pretty solid gaming experience.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by clarabelle View Post

    Compare it with Hytbold: Aiding the Eastemnet...It was a dull solo grind with no group options (unless you count the massive farm trains in Cliving). Only thing I enjoyed about that was the hobby horse.
    This also happened to me, the hobby horse was the only quest I liked and didn't worried too much in loosing.

    The most hated Hytbold one was the Beacon of Eaworth, I sincerely hope devs at turbine know players like more group content and not just ramp jumping.

  4. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldarian_Grace View Post
    My Question to you, the lotro community is this, which old content would you want scaled to level cap at some point hopefully sooner rather than later (without demanding it yesterday) would you want to see?
    Personally I liked the variation possible with the latest expansion but there are many pitfalls noted that we don't need to go over again (abd again). )
    Scaled 6-mans, maybe ... but when they start scaling things; level-caps on Deeds (especially Meta) starts changing. I'd rather older content be able to be done at higher level for completionists that never got the time/people to do it when it was level cap.

    Honestly, I would rather the scaling stop and new instances like Forsaken Inn be added. Small quick and challenging 3/6 mans are the answer IMO. Expensive instances, like old school CD and Uru ... while amazing, are not often the choice of developers anymore. So lets just give us new instances ala FInn ... always had a certain classic Table Top D&D feel to it. Which I enjoyed.
    "I swear to God, if this thing turns into a zombie attack, I am quitting." - Jack Carter

  5. #30
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    So is the answer everything scaled?

    I definetly think so!

  6. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Khafar View Post
    I hope (for the sake of players who like that content) that you're correct too. However, I don't think that's what he was saying. It takes time and effort to move the goalposts, even for instances which were scaled previously. If they could at least throw that bone to players in the chat, I'm sure they would have... calling it out explicitly. Instead, he said that all of their instance designers were completely focused on Helm's Deep stuff.

    That always leaves open the possibility that they'll at least offer some scaled content in the first update after Helm's Deep - after all, I wouldn't think "instance designers" would have too much to do for a housing update...

    Khafar
    Yes you're correct: he certainly didn't say that pushing the already-scaled instances up to 95 was a possibility. My point was simply that they have not said (to my knowledge anyway) that they will definitely NOT do this. Nevertheless, as you say the wording of what has been stated does not leave me super hopeful. If the new Big Battles are the only "end game" things to do and all other instances stop at 85 max, I might consider leaving 2 of my four 85s at that level just to keep running Annuminas, BG, Fornost, etc. Which would be kinda' disappointing, but if they scaled stuff in another update within a few months of HD it probably wouldn't make a difference for me. Here's hoping...

  7. #32
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    Definetly scaling isnot enough, we need polishing in these instances for lvl 95 objectives that would really add depth to skirmishes.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoFurriel View Post
    I'd rather have nothing scaled for one very simple reason.

    Scaled content is not new content and old content gets old real fast. Read: School, Library, GB trio, Annu trio etc.

    One can only farm the same instances so many times. There has to be a point where someone asks him/herself "Why am I doing this?".

    I'm at that point.
    This. In spades.

    Scaled content is just old. If that was the only reason to play, Turbine should've left us at the prior level cap and simply made new content. I don't need to gain levels to feel accomplishment. I need content.
    I'd explain it to you, but I'm all out of Puppets and Crayons.
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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaniemooch View Post
    This. In spades.

    Scaled content is just old. If that was the only reason to play, Turbine should've left us at the prior level cap and simply made new content. I don't need to gain levels to feel accomplishment. I need content.
    Hurray for new content!

    Scaling up low-level characters is an important change for me. Using myself as an example; I've been on LOTRO F2P since it came out and have never hit the level-cap, thus I never buy Expansions at release because my characters are not high enough level to play through the content.

    Two attempts to offer new content that also can be used by "newer" players:
    - Mirkwood added Skirmishes for levels 20+ even though quest content was for levels 60+.
    - Riders of Rohan offered the new Instances Clusters for Road to Erebor, for levels 20+ even though the quest content was for levels 75+.
    The important difference is two of the Skirmishes (Tuckburough and Gondomon) are including for all players. The Road to Erebor Instances must be purchased to be played. The big flaw with both is that unless your character is approximately the same level as your group, your character is prety much useless to the group.

    So now we have Helm's Deep, which will presumably have quest content for levels 85+, but also includes Big Battles which can be joined by levels 10+.
    - Anyone with a level 10+ character can use at least some of the new content, instead of needed a level 85 character.
    - Scaling allows a level 10 can play in the same instances as someone at level-cap without being utterly useless (although they probably won't be as effective).
    - Content must be purchased to be played.

    The level Scaling is a big plus for me, I am a member of a Kinship but not being at the level-cap I don't participate in many of the big events. With Scaling I will be able to participate. On the downside, I would have to pay Expansion price for access to a few Big Battles (until my character level catches up).

    I haven't pre-ordered Helm's Deep because I want to see it first. Open-Beta should be high on my priority list.
    Last edited by FoilFodder; Oct 15 2013 at 01:02 PM.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoilFodder View Post
    Hurray for new content!

    Scaling up low-level characters is an important change for me. Using myself as an example; I've been on LOTRO F2P since it came out and have never hit the level-cap, thus I never buy Expansions at release because my characters are not high enough level to play through the content.
    For me this is personally disturbing.

    I'm happy that you're looking forward to the upscaling and are going to purchase your first expansion in several years. I've bought the past expansions on 3 accounts and yet they provide zero desired content for me in this next one. I never liked skirmishes and didn't consider them more than fluff in a game already filled with fluff. I have no assurance big battles are similar to raids so unless they are I have no raids or instances to play. And again, there is no reason to go in old scaled content I've run a hundred times or more.

    Hopefully the money they get from your F2P account makes up for my 3 lifetime accounts that purchased expansions and bought Turbine points.
    I'd explain it to you, but I'm all out of Puppets and Crayons.
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  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaniemooch View Post
    For me this is personally disturbing.

    I'm happy that you're looking forward to the upscaling and are going to purchase your first expansion in several years. I've bought the past expansions on 3 accounts and yet they provide zero desired content for me in this next one. I never liked skirmishes and didn't consider them more than fluff in a game already filled with fluff. I have no assurance big battles are similar to raids so unless they are I have no raids or instances to play. And again, there is no reason to go in old scaled content I've run a hundred times or more.

    Hopefully the money they get from your F2P account makes up for my 3 lifetime accounts that purchased expansions and bought Turbine points.
    "disturbing" is a strange way to address a purely capitalistic system (as a side note, I have paid for VIP subscription in the past but I'm not currently).

    Whether a F2P account or a Lifetime account the monthly fee is collected is the same, zero. The only way LOTRO can get revenue from F2P and Lifetime accounts is to charge for extras: Boosts, Wardrobe Slots and Expansions. If Expansions include content that can be played at any level, it will appeal to more players. If those players buy, more sales means LOTRO will be more profitable. Profitability means LOTRO should stay around longer, which is something all players should enjoy.

    So why should new content be targeted solely at Players with characters at the Level-Cap? I doubt we will see an Expansion in LOTRO without raising the level-cap, but including the addition of content for more "casual" players seems like a good way to keep the business around by increasing sales.

    Again, I'm not saying all new content should be playable at any level. I'm just happy that some of it will be; for my enjoyment and the continued longevity of LOTRO.
    Last edited by FoilFodder; Oct 14 2013 at 08:37 PM.

  12. #37
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    Lifetime and F2P monthly fee is the same, but based on the post I responded to he had never purchased an expansion before. Yet content was created specifically so he could participate in end game. I have purchased expansions on 3 lifetime accounts, yet no content was created that I would consider end game. As part of a raiding kin I kept at least two characters raid-ready at all times, bought TP on top of my monthly TP allowance, purchased store items like stat tomes, vault upgrades, consumables, LI enhancements, you name it. Therefore I hope the money in question spent by the F2P player makes up for the money I spent on my 3 accounts, because I won't be spending any more with the direction the game is going, including I won't pay for the expansion on any of the accounts. I'll wait until they have the TP to purchase it, just so I can do the Epic line.

    I don't mind that content was created for others. I object to being totally dismissed by Turbine as an unimportant part of the player base.
    I'd explain it to you, but I'm all out of Puppets and Crayons.
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  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoilFodder View Post
    Profitability means LOTRO should stay around longer, which is something all players should enjoy.
    Not if it comes at the expense of quality and game-play. And both have suffered a lot in the last couple of years. I'm already sick to death of Rohan and sick to death of wandering from quest hub to quest hub doing the same four or five quests. I'm not thrilled at the thought of doing even more of the same so I'm waiting to see what the final product is like before making my mind up.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kongas View Post
    I'm waiting to see what the final product is like before making my mind up.
    I'd say that's a good decision for any product you're interested in but unsure of.
    Nothing here matters.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troutdude View Post
    Perhaps you're referring to this?
    Q19: Yulin-Gladden: Are there plans to scale older raids as part of HD? Specifically Moria and Isengard.
    A19:jwbarry: No. The instance designers have been completely focused on delivering Helm’s Deep and Big Battles to the fullest scope and highest quality possible.

    If so, that doesn’t mean that currently-scaled instances will definitely NOT be scaled to 95. Rather, it seems to mean that instances which have not yet been scaled (such as the Moria runs), will not be scaled as part of the Helm’s Deep release. Presumably that leaves open the possibility that already-scaled instances will simply scale up to 95. Hope I’m right about that.
    It means that currently they are not working on any, doesn't mean they won't once the big battles are ironed out.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troutdude View Post
    Yes you're correct: he certainly didn't say that pushing the already-scaled instances up to 95 was a possibility. My point was simply that they have not said (to my knowledge anyway) that they will definitely NOT do this. Nevertheless, as you say the wording of what has been stated does not leave me super hopeful. If the new Big Battles are the only "end game" things to do and all other instances stop at 85 max, I might consider leaving 2 of my four 85s at that level just to keep running Annuminas, BG, Fornost, etc. Which would be kinda' disappointing, but if they scaled stuff in another update within a few months of HD it probably wouldn't make a difference for me. Here's hoping...
    Scalables will always scale, that's why they are called scalables.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troutdude View Post
    Yes you're correct: he certainly didn't say that pushing the already-scaled instances up to 95 was a possibility. My point was simply that they have not said (to my knowledge anyway) that they will definitely NOT do this. Nevertheless, as you say the wording of what has been stated does not leave me super hopeful. If the new Big Battles are the only "end game" things to do and all other instances stop at 85 max, I might consider leaving 2 of my four 85s at that level just to keep running Annuminas, BG, Fornost, etc. Which would be kinda' disappointing, but if they scaled stuff in another update within a few months of HD it probably wouldn't make a difference for me. Here's hoping...
    I don't think players should worry about advancing their character making scaled instance content unusable. Most Skirmishes, Instances and Raids can have the level set prior to joining, The only advantage to not leveling up from 85 to 95 is you woud not have to re-equip your character with level 95 items to maintain performance in the new Scaled Big Battles.

    I am only worried about two things 1) will Big Battles be challenging and entertaining enough to replay, thus justifying the expense of the Expansion. 2) Will other instances be updated to use the same system after Helms' Deep and Big Battles are done. Players have mixed feelings from the previous remarks about the Barrow-downs and Fornost updates.

 

 
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