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  1. #1
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    Group End Game post Big Battles

    So we know from publically released info that Big Battles with one 12 man space, one 6man , one three and five ( including the same above spaces but scaled one/two) will be the end game focus.

    There are AFAIK no current plans for new raids , be it multi or single boss variety or 3/6 man instances. There is also no plans for the scaling of old content to level 95 on release.

    There are pro's and con's to this and I'm sure group focused players feel disappointed or apprehensive about only having Big Battles to look forward to, which may or may not satisfy.

    My Question to you, the lotro community is this, which old content would you want scaled to level cap at some point hopefully sooner rather than later (without demanding it yesterday) would you want to see?
    Personally I liked the variation possible with the latest expansion but there are many pitfalls noted that we don't need to go over again (abd again).

    My idea was to see a different set of instances done. This would be harder to pull off as presumably scaling to 85 would take a lot of the work out of scaling to 95. However I would argue for making moria and isenguard instances scale, perhaps with a mixture if others too. This would be an attempt to reduce the staleness for some who've been there done that, I would purposely not scale sambrog for the same reason! Fornost could be done ( but with more frequently dropping rewards!) The benefits would be to keep a flexible, varied customer base that still contains group based players and hopefully keeps that alive & allows the potential for future growth in that arena.

    What say you lotro community?

    please lets not bore off on about a % figure someone once said somewhere.

    Also I'm perfectly willing to give big battles a chance, but at the moment I'm still thirsty for more! So please sir, can we have some more? (cowers whilst raising gaming keyboard and mouse)

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldarian_Grace View Post
    So please sir, can we have some more? (cowers whilst raising gaming keyboard and mouse)

    lol, nice. quote from oliver twist

  3. #3
    Well, I personally don't want to do any more warmed up scaled versions of the things we've been doing since lvl 20. I'd like actual new multi boss/tiered instances.
    With that being said.. I'd rather have the lag gone first. Having a nice run is blown away by debilitating lag and its spreading now it seems.

    It's like contagion....infecting the other instances if you will..

    Anyone tried Fornost lately? Or the goblin lookout 10 second deathlag in the 'Seat of the Great Goblin' instance? BfE, any skirm over 6 man? Two words: Flight T2 and the mother of all lagfests .. Wildemore.

    Just saying, I'd be happier as a runner of instances/raid if the damn lag was gone. Then maybe they should focus on the new stuff. Fix what's broken first.
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  4. #4
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    Moria, if they add a 3 man options for the 6 mans :P.
    Nothing here matters.

  5. #5
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    Isengard. This was some of the best raid runs. If they only scaled this area I would be happy.
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  6. #6
    I'd like to see revamped Garth Agarwen and Isengard clusters. They seem to be ready for scaling so it doesn't take much resources to scale them.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldarian_Grace View Post
    So we know from publically released info that Big Battles with one 12 man space, one 6man , one three and five ( including the same above spaces but scaled one/two) will be the end game focus.

    There are AFAIK no current plans for new raids , be it multi or single boss variety or 3/6 man instances. There is also no plans for the scaling of old content to level 95 on release.

    There are pro's and con's to this and I'm sure group focused players feel disappointed or apprehensive about only having Big Battles to look forward to, which may or may not satisfy.

    My Question to you, the lotro community is this, which old content would you want scaled to level cap at some point hopefully sooner rather than later (without demanding it yesterday) would you want to see?
    Personally I liked the variation possible with the latest expansion but there are many pitfalls noted that we don't need to go over again (abd again).

    My idea was to see a different set of instances done. This would be harder to pull off as presumably scaling to 85 would take a lot of the work out of scaling to 95. However I would argue for making moria and isenguard instances scale, perhaps with a mixture if others too. This would be an attempt to reduce the staleness for some who've been there done that, I would purposely not scale sambrog for the same reason! Fornost could be done ( but with more frequently dropping rewards!) The benefits would be to keep a flexible, varied customer base that still contains group based players and hopefully keeps that alive & allows the potential for future growth in that arena.

    What say you lotro community?

    please lets not bore off on about a % figure someone once said somewhere.

    Also I'm perfectly willing to give big battles a chance, but at the moment I'm still thirsty for more! So please sir, can we have some more? (cowers whilst raising gaming keyboard and mouse)
    From what I understand of the information we have so far, the Big Battle system was introduced with Helms Deep because Turbine decided it was really the best way to "tell the story". I.E. The current methods of "raiding" we have available were not adequate to convey such a big battle as took place at Helms Deep.

    And, what I've heard (via the rumormill so take this with a grain of salt) is that Big Battles will provide people with plenty of stuff to do while Turbine works on whatever future content they are planning. Plus, I am sure all of the instances that have already been scaled will be scaled along with Helms Deep.

    I suspect (as I was chatting with some last night) that the Big Battles will be "abused" by the players in the same way Sambrog is treated IF the Big Battles are as good as they are billed. The true test will come when it hits live and the ingenuity of the players absorbs the new content. Some will rage over what they don't like. Some will cheer over the things they like. But, once the dust settles, the players will tell you (by their actions) what is popular.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCrossbow View Post
    From what I understand of the information we have so far, the Big Battle system was introduced with Helms Deep because Turbine decided it was really the best way to "tell the story". I.E. The current methods of "raiding" we have available were not adequate to convey such a big battle as took place at Helms Deep.

    And, what I've heard (via the rumormill so take this with a grain of salt) is that Big Battles will provide people with plenty of stuff to do while Turbine works on whatever future content they are planning. Plus, I am sure all of the instances that have already been scaled will be scaled along with Helms Deep.

    I suspect (as I was chatting with some last night) that the Big Battles will be "abused" by the players in the same way Sambrog is treated IF the Big Battles are as good as they are billed. The true test will come when it hits live and the ingenuity of the players absorbs the new content. Some will rage over what they don't like. Some will cheer over the things they like. But, once the dust settles, the players will tell you (by their actions) what is popular.
    I'm not too sure how the content can be abused ala Sambrog style when the gripe with Sambrog was it was the fastest way for a 6 man group to complete an instance. At least with Sambrog you had 3 annum, 2 other GB, SG, Bells of Dale, and 3 fornosts you could have done instead. For a total of 9 altogether 6 man spaces. There is no choice in the matter of Epic battles, 1 is all you get. Same goes for the 12 man version where BFE was exploited. Once again only 1 12 man available so no choice.

    At least with the old system players had a choice if they did not want to spam run Spambrog. If you like 12 man content you are going to have 1 single 12 man skirm style raid.

    The one thing I never found enjoyable in the game is solo skirming. After blasting out T3's and getting a relic and bounty at the end just wasn't worth it. Now we have 5 of them? Doesn't sound fun at all.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldarian_Grace View Post

    My Question to you, the lotro community is this, which old content would you want scaled to level cap at some point hopefully sooner rather than later (without demanding it yesterday) would you want to see?
    Carn Dum and Rift of Nurz Ghashu!
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  10. #10
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    I want everything scaled

    If I had to pick...
    Ill say: Siege of Mirkwood, Moria ones, Weathertop Battle and Annuminas ones.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al. View Post
    I want everything scaled

    If I had to pick...
    Ill say: Siege of Mirkwood, Moria ones, Weathertop Battle and Annuminas ones.
    I'd rather have nothing scaled for one very simple reason.

    Scaled content is not new content and old content gets old real fast. Read: School, Library, GB trio, Annu trio etc.

    One can only farm the same instances so many times. There has to be a point where someone asks him/herself "Why am I doing this?".

    I'm at that point.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoFurriel View Post
    I'd rather have nothing scaled for one very simple reason.

    Scaled content is not new content and old content gets old real fast. Read: School, Library, GB trio, Annu trio etc.

    One can only farm the same instances so many times. There has to be a point where someone asks him/herself "Why am I doing this?".

    I'm at that point.
    Again thats you, Im thinking on the little people.

    Scaled content (All) is great because people can run any instance with kinmates of different lvl-range.
    Few Scaled content, is bad because you end up repeating the same instances (Farming)
    None scaled. even worst because you outlevel most of instances to quickly.

  13. #13
    Its only old and boring if you have done it before and a lot. Frankly, I enjoy running stuff for the camaraderie . Challenge is nice , buts its like that dog that finally caught a car. Now what do I do? Its the same with chasing the ultimate gear set. If that is what motivates you to run instance x, you will burn out in no time. I like pugs myself you get to meet new players and never know what you will need to do typically to make work. With pugs no two runs are anything alike.

  14. #14
    As much as I enjoyed Rift and CD and Uru on level, I have no faith that the feel and flavor of the spaces could be maintained if they were scaled. IMO, it's better to leave them as a fond memory as they currently are. If someone hasn't experienced them yet, go solo or duo or trio them - the only thing you'd be missing if they were scaled would be a bounty and a relic for each boss that is downed.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Al. View Post
    Again thats you, Im thinking on the little people.

    Scaled content (All) is great because people can run any instance with kinmates of different lvl-range.
    Few Scaled content, is bad because you end up repeating the same instances (Farming)
    None scaled. even worst because you outlevel most of instances to quickly.
    Agreed. Many players have not been running these instances for 5 years already; scaling lets us do them. I've been playing for 2 years; started right around Isengard time when level cap was 75. By the time I capped my first character I'm sure some long-term vets were already bored with dodging Draig's breath and counting how much straw is used on the roofs of Galtrev, but I hadn't even run half the Moria instances yet. Now I have 4 85s plus 3 others, and I've run most 3- and 6-man content numerous times and several raids. But I still haven't run Ost Dunhoth or any Orthanc wing except Lightning, and still haven't beaten the LT or the challenge mode of Sari Surma. And I'm enjoying the chance to run all the Annuminas instances with kinnies, even though we're at level 85. If they weren't scaled I would have missed out on them completely whilst veteran gamers were bored with them. Point being, if you started playing LOTRO early on you're probably never going to see new content put out at a pace that can keep up with your ability to consume and enjoy it, because you're only (or mostly) living off new release content. But for many other current players, scaling opens up a staggering amount of content to explore and enjoy.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldarian_Grace View Post
    My Question to you, the lotro community is this, which old content would you want scaled to level cap at some point hopefully sooner rather than later (without demanding it yesterday) would you want to see?
    now to answer the question,
    GA instances- most underused content in the game
    SOA content- Sometimes longer is better

  17. #17
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    Hi guys thought I'd chime in with a point, the suggestion was to supplement the available grouping options at level cap. I think they've stated no plans to up scale anything to 95. So it will literally be epic/big battles only.

    Surely any scaled other content is an improvement?

    sure I'd like new more traditional instances( in addition at a later date) but thats been ruled out I believe.

    Garth Agarwen and Angmar ( especially rift) are certainly interesting options.

    my final defense of this position is that by scaling less often played but old content. It may allow for greater variety of group activities at cap. Far from perfect I know but IMO chances of new very engaging instances within 4 months of launch are slim.

    I'm open hearing better ideas

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldarian_Grace View Post
    Hi guys thought I'd chime in with a point, the suggestion was to supplement the available grouping options at level cap. I think they've stated no plans to up scale anything to 95. So it will literally be epic/big battles only.
    Do you have a quote for this? Since the introduction of scaled instances, they have always scaled up with the level cap increase (to the best of my recollection). I doubt they would decide to stop doing that now. So while most people may be bored of doing them by now (I know I am), there should be the same level cap stuff available to run plus the big / epic / uber / whatever we're calling them this week battles.
    Originally Posted by [B]Damian6988[/B]
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldarian_Grace View Post
    Hi guys thought I'd chime in with a point, the suggestion was to supplement the available grouping options at level cap. I think they've stated no plans to up scale anything to 95. So it will literally be epic/big battles only.
    Perhaps you're referring to this?
    Q19: Yulin-Gladden: Are there plans to scale older raids as part of HD? Specifically Moria and Isengard.
    A19:jwbarry: No. The instance designers have been completely focused on delivering Helm’s Deep and Big Battles to the fullest scope and highest quality possible.

    If so, that doesn’t mean that currently-scaled instances will definitely NOT be scaled to 95. Rather, it seems to mean that instances which have not yet been scaled (such as the Moria runs), will not be scaled as part of the Helm’s Deep release. Presumably that leaves open the possibility that already-scaled instances will simply scale up to 95. Hope I’m right about that.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troutdude View Post
    Presumably that leaves open the possibility that already-scaled instances will simply scale up to 95. Hope I’m right about that.
    I hope (for the sake of players who like that content) that you're correct too. However, I don't think that's what he was saying. It takes time and effort to move the goalposts, even for instances which were scaled previously. If they could at least throw that bone to players in the chat, I'm sure they would have... calling it out explicitly. Instead, he said that all of their instance designers were completely focused on Helm's Deep stuff.

    That always leaves open the possibility that they'll at least offer some scaled content in the first update after Helm's Deep - after all, I wouldn't think "instance designers" would have too much to do for a housing update...

    Khafar

  21. #21
    I only started raiding with ROI and did ga on lvl. So I haven't done any of the others CD,Helegrod,Rift before so I wouldn't mind doing these At lvl95 might be fun Wasn't able to complete watcher or ToO on lvl.
    Mean what you say and say what you mean! If you don't there are always consequences!

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troutdude View Post
    Perhaps you're referring to this?
    Q19: Yulin-Gladden: Are there plans to scale older raids as part of HD? Specifically Moria and Isengard.
    A19:jwbarry: No. The instance designers have been completely focused on delivering Helm’s Deep and Big Battles to the fullest scope and highest quality possible.

    If so, that doesn’t mean that currently-scaled instances will definitely NOT be scaled to 95. Rather, it seems to mean that instances which have not yet been scaled (such as the Moria runs), will not be scaled as part of the Helm’s Deep release. Presumably that leaves open the possibility that already-scaled instances will simply scale up to 95. Hope I’m right about that.
    You could be correct there, I may have been Mis remembering.

  23. #23
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    Hey fellows. There are 25 scaled instances in LOTRO if I'm not mistaken. And about 25 unscaled instances.
    Isn't it a good balance?

    Would that be very helpful if we have 35 scaled instances instead of 25?
    It'll be helpful I think, but to which degree? In my opinion 25 scaled instances is enough. They are not equal.
    Some are more insteresting, other one are more difficult or they don't have useful reward.

    What can happen? It can happen that no one will want to run scaled Carn Dum for instance.

  24. #24
    Not scalling one instance is bad because ppl forget that instance if is low level (like GA trio) and it is shame since like all old good stuff, those instances had good tactics and provided us with an nice quality content.
    Scalling the instances bad, like was the case with all recently scalled instances:
    GB Maze, Thadur, Sambrog, Annuminas trio, is even more bad because:
    - bad scalling ruined the fun of those instances;
    - ppl have the impression now that they are very good and amazing players since they can do OE or Sambrog challenge.

    The only OK rewamp/scaled instance was Fornost, who is still ok. The rest are an shame. Just remember, pre U9, NO ONE was doing Sambrog. Now, Sammy is an joke. Like all scaled instances, the amount of wounds/poisons as damage is ridiculous, you take wounds of 150-200 damage?! Bad scalling make ppl not even bother to buy pots for potabble effects. Bad scalling make ppl not use food for icpr/icmr, resistance food, use scrolls. Only thing still used is hope tokens for ... you know why, more dps . Bad scalling transformed all the instances in an dps fest, thing who encouraged having groups with only 5 champs and one cappy, more than enought, because you dont need tactics anymore, CC, intrerupt things, offhealing and so on. So, before U9, all instances was ok, you had the feeling that doing one challenge was indeed, an challenge. Now, except some cases (LT and SS), you dont have that feeling anymore.

    School/library, dam, you can 2 man them. BTW, why they dont fix the exploit in school? Everyone know about him, everyone is doing, no one is fixing.

    ITA cluster. Best last cluster. Not very good scaled, but better than GB and Annuminas.
    Good scaled was BG and OD as raids. Still an pleasure to go there. I hope we will see them at 95 as well.

    Erebor raids ... I am not gonna say anything about them. Veni, vidi, vici. Return there for fun in an friday evening? No, you better get an team and go in Rift or DN. That was fun. I dont want to see them anymore in HD.

    Yes, i want scaled some instances. I want them all. Old content will be always better than new one. On that time the accent was made on fun, not like now on speed. In the same time, I would like that the creators to put accent on new stuff and not spending time with old ones. Though choice.

    OFC will be ppl who will be very offended, that i am an elitist, that not all the ppl did all the Challenges and they deserve the right to do it, that not all the ppl make part from one raiding kin and so on. I will remember though that every instance have 2 tiers and one challenge. Not all the ppl can do the CH, so that is why we have the tiers.

  25. #25
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    My approach is: let's have every possible option. Scaled/unscaled/tiers/possibility to change the instance level
    - Tiers can be removed if we have possibility to change the instance level
    - Number of unscaled instances can be decreased. We have many unscaled epic instances by the way. Some can be replayed, but I guess not to many people replay it.
    - Scaled Instance level: 20 levels below your character level - easy. 10 levels below - difficult. On-level - impossible
    - Dynamic monitoring on the server side. If there are too many successful runs on an "impossible" instance - increase difficulty of the instance with or without giving notification to users about change.
    - Other way around: In case of too many failures on "easy" level instance - decrease the difficulty of "easy" level even more.

    Let's make loot dependent on random factor.
    For instance, school drops level-dependent loot. That's a good solution. But let's also add some variety to it.
    Now it drops for example +100 Might when you run it on level 70. But let's make it random. Let it be from +95 to +105 for level 70.
    In this way you can run each instance endlessly because you can't possible get all three or four attributes on an item at max. You'll (almost) always have a small chance to get better loot on every run.
    Last edited by evguenil; Oct 09 2013 at 05:38 AM.

 

 
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