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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    When will or will we ever see any of the draft trait trees?

    I remember back when WoW had trait trees, they would release the drafts much earlier than release of the XPac. There would be changes, some major, to what the final trees would be from the drafts, but at least we would get an idea of the changes. It is pretty evident that there will be trees (which I prefer), so giving the users a look even if it's not final doesn't seem like a big deal. If Turbine is worried about fueling the nay sayers... well they will complain regardless.

    FYI - Contrary to many people's beliefs that I see on here. WoW now has a very similar trait system to what current LoTRO is.

  2. #2
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    But Blizzard is it's own company that owns the IP. WB is notorious for being tight lipped on everything.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
    Continuing the never ending battle to keep Lobelia Sackville-Baggins in check

  3. #3
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    The problem is people tend to overreact to early work in progress stuff which hasn't been properly balanced and polished. This is what beta is designed to help with. I don't think it would be helpful to show people rough stuff that could give them a bad impression of things.

    Arguably the class dev diaries are a sneak peak, given they don't go into a lot of detail and suggest that some stuff is still being changed based on beta, etc.

    -Bel
    Belnavar - Captain - 105 - Brandywine - Leader of Keepers of the Palantiri

  4. #4
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    Feb 2007
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    12,675
    I doubt we'll see them until the NDA drops on the beta. Turbine has been burned repeatedly by releasing information too early, then listening to all the players accusing them of lies, screwing everything up, ruining a great idea with changes that came afterwards, etc.

    Of course, I'm going to just go AWOL from the forums at that point (NDA drops) until I've been playing Helm's Deep myself for at least a month... don't want the sky falling on my head .

    Khafar

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khafar View Post
    I doubt we'll see them until the NDA drops on the beta. Turbine has been burned repeatedly by releasing information too early, then listening to all the players accusing them of lies, screwing everything up, ruining a great idea with changes that came afterwards, etc.

    Of course, I'm going to just go AWOL from the forums at that point (NDA drops) until I've been playing Helm's Deep myself for at least a month... don't want the sky falling on my head .

    Khafar

    I'll be here at work watching the forums and enjoying the fireworks.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
    Continuing the never ending battle to keep Lobelia Sackville-Baggins in check

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    14,291
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymphonic View Post
    I'll be here at work watching the forums and enjoying the fireworks.
    I'll make popcorn.
    Eruanne - Shards of Narsil-1 - Elendilmir -> Arkenstone

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Khafar View Post
    I doubt we'll see them until the NDA drops on the beta. Turbine has been burned repeatedly by releasing information too early, then listening to all the players accusing them of lies, screwing everything up, ruining a great idea with changes that came afterwards, etc.

    Of course, I'm going to just go AWOL from the forums at that point (NDA drops) until I've been playing Helm's Deep myself for at least a month... don't want the sky falling on my head .

    Khafar


    I can't believe the truth ever hurt any buisness. Waffling on the other hand could destroy you
    Mean what you say and say what you mean! If you don't there are always consequences!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaGere View Post
    I can't believe the truth ever hurt any buisness.
    Premature information release most definitely has. I've seen it repeatedly in LOTRO, and I've seen it in the company I work for too. When they're final, they should release some more information - or just drop the NDA and let players provide it.

    Khafar

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    3,679
    Quote Originally Posted by LaGere View Post
    I can't believe the truth ever hurt any buisness. Waffling on the other hand could destroy you
    The truth may not hurt your business, but *half* of the truth might. I think they've released all the info they're comfortable releasing at this time. They're not done with designing the trees so they don't want to tell folks things that they might need to change later. They HAVE been hurt by telling the world things that they then had to change later.
    <<Insert clever sig here>>

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by LaGere View Post
    I can't believe the truth ever hurt any buisness. Waffling on the other hand could destroy you
    The difficulty is there is no truth to tell. The current implementation is never going to seen by us in live. We going to get something that does not exist yet. Turbine does not know what that something is going to be.

    It is like the situation Ms. Yula in for dinner Saturday night. All she knows is I am cooking a meal for the two of us. Later on this week I will be provided a time range for the meal. I have no idea what I am going to prepare. There is a lot of freedom when the generic requirements are one meat, 3 veggies, bread and a beverage. It could be a meat and veggie stew with a roll of biscuits baked. Or perhaps grilled corn on the cob, skewers with meat and veggies and home made scratch baked biscuits. I will not know to Saturday. I will make out the plan and get the components after she she leaves in the morning. It may get delayed to Sunday - get a Ms. Yula "blow up my plan" call telling me that she is going to be home late.

    Sure it might be nice if Turbine had locked in the feature a month or more before launch. That is not the way Turbine works. Turbine locks in right before launch.

    Where I work we typically halt any changes on how a feature is supposed to work 8-12 week before launch. The last 2-3 months is spent fine tuning the package and features to kill all the bugs. The problem with our scheduling is that if there is a "Working as Intended" but not "Working as the customer wanted". It takes a long time for the change to occur. It could take 4-6 months to gets a change in. We got 2-3 months where no design or requirement changes are allowed. We do monthly updates. The first monthly update usually is more fixes for achieve better "Working as Intended". Design change start to arrive in patch 2 or 3.
    Last edited by Yula_the_Mighty; Oct 08 2013 at 07:18 PM.
    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
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    1,118
    Quote Originally Posted by Seldomblue View Post
    I remember back when WoW had trait trees, they would release the drafts much earlier than release of the XPac. There would be changes, some major, to what the final trees would be from the drafts, but at least we would get an idea of the changes. It is pretty evident that there will be trees (which I prefer), so giving the users a look even if it's not final doesn't seem like a big deal. If Turbine is worried about fueling the nay sayers... well they will complain regardless.

    FYI - Contrary to many people's beliefs that I see on here. WoW now has a very similar trait system to what current LoTRO is.
    If my experience in the RoR BETA holds true for the HD BETA, there are a ton of people who have already seen the trait tree drafts. In Riders of Rohan they were throwing around BETA keys like candy at a parade.

    The Order of The Silver Flame - A fun, mature, helpful and friendly kin. Come join us on Silverlode!

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Massachusetts
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    579
    Quote Originally Posted by Widoch View Post
    If my experience in the RoR BETA holds true for the HD BETA, there are a ton of people who have already seen the trait tree drafts. In Riders of Rohan they were throwing around BETA keys like candy at a parade.
    I think what the op is referring to is the ability to tweak a classes trait tree on a website rather than in game. WOW has released (to the public) new trait trees during the actual beta.

    The main reasons for my leaving that game is that the trait trees were revamped beyond recognition from the older releases. And luckily I found out about this long before they were even accepting preorders, and atleast 2 months before release. Which had an affect on my decision to buy the xpac based on those changes. Telling the public non beta testers over and over again that they are :

    A. Revamping the classes
    B. narrowing the skills used
    C. Tuning the classes better to working in groups

    is just not enough information to justify a preorder. At least in WOW with cataclysm the changes were introduced into the live game almost 2 months before xpac launch. And the skill trees were available for viewing at least 2 to three months prior to that via a tree preview on their website that could be altered based upon level to see a preview of what you would be getting. If they hadn't done this I still may have bought the xpac. Which I then would have kicked myself for afterwards.

    Premature info should be leaked in various degrees in order to receive player feedback, as beta testers are a small subset of the player population. Most development teams care about those opinions as well. And as far as being tight lipped about the lore, that really has nothing to do with in game mechanics.

    And over reaction is sometimes good to see what it is your player really want.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Minquinn View Post
    I think what the op is referring to is the ability to tweak a classes trait tree on a website rather than in game. WOW has released (to the public) new trait trees during the actual beta.

    The main reasons for my leaving that game is that the trait trees were revamped beyond recognition from the older releases. And luckily I found out about this long before they were even accepting preorders, and atleast 2 months before release. Which had an affect on my decision to buy the xpac based on those changes. Telling the public non beta testers over and over again that they are :

    A. Revamping the classes
    B. narrowing the skills used
    C. Tuning the classes better to working in groups

    is just not enough information to justify a preorder. At least in WOW with cataclysm the changes were introduced into the live game almost 2 months before xpac launch. And the skill trees were available for viewing at least 2 to three months prior to that via a tree preview on their website that could be altered based upon level to see a preview of what you would be getting. If they hadn't done this I still may have bought the xpac. Which I then would have kicked myself for afterwards.

    Premature info should be leaked in various degrees in order to receive player feedback, as beta testers are a small subset of the player population. Most development teams care about those opinions as well. And as far as being tight lipped about the lore, that really has nothing to do with in game mechanics.

    And over reaction is sometimes good to see what it is your player really want.
    You make me wish Turbine was a little more like Blizzard with this.
    I don't want to see a rushed product, but having access to a lot of features about a month or two before the xpack is launched is nice.
    It lets players see some of what is to come.
    But, alas, Turbine is not Blizzard.
    We will get HD without much preview (except for the Beta Players).
    And the people who pre-purchased will either love it... or kick themselves later.
    Though, I did love what Blizzard did with the trees. Loved it.

 

 

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