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  1. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Klaarg View Post
    I am planning on getting the expansion in the very near future, hopefully by next week. Considering how well Turbine and LOTRO seem to have listened
    to their customer base and corrected the missteps made in the "other" preorder, I'd like to say "Thank you" and let them know
    I will be putting my faith in them, yet again, in very short order. I just thought it'd be nice to let them know and to remind them
    that their efforts were noticed and much appreciated...

    You're not supposed to say that. You are supposed to complain and moan.

    What goes into Beta is probably not the same thing that comes out of Beta. What comes out of Beta is probably not the same thing that goes out live. Turbine is not here to ruin Lord of the Rings Online, they are here to keep the players and make a buck.
    Roses are red, Polar bears are white, if you meet one at night you'll get quite a fright.

  2. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Macroscian View Post
    Nice try!

    However, it's unasked for extra work put into things nobody has poked forums about.

    No amount of reading player suggestions will put Class Revamp or Skills Revamp anywhere near the top of the pile. Rather, people have asked for even more raid and group content and the final word on that is that there will never again be anything such as a classic raid. That's us told, isn't it?
    In TPS/Lean, extra work where it's not asked for is defined as Muda/Waste and is the number one cost drive parameter that can so easily kill a project. If the customer demands that the surface of a table should be made perfectly level, no amount of ornamentation on the legs is going to cover up the fact that the product is in fact not meeting customer expectations. It will instead make the product more expensive when the manufacturer realizes that there must be work put into making the top of the table absolutely level in order to get decent sales figures.

    That said, I'm sure people will simply stop paying and play for free. See where that takes us. I'm not preordering anything that isn't at least a big list of contents. I do not pay for things unseen. WB can afford the production cost and meet customer demand or they can pay for production of random unasked for stuff, none of that requires my kickstarter money.


    EDIT I bought ONE item unseen here, Journeyman Riding trait for my account, it looked as if it was spot on specified and I topped up TP with cash to get it - and it was broken! It is still broken after MONTHS of /bugging. There is no quality control, there is no meeting customer demand, there is nothing fun except making alts. New skins for armor has so much clipping that it can't be used other than with itself and some of it don't even match the game character models. The preorder frills can't even be dyed. It's just foul!
    I'm staying out of habit and due to spending far too much time and money. I'm angry with myself for staying and with turbine for turning what was nice to mush and I reserve the right to keep whining while at the same time I will demand the right to keep saying that it's the best PVE game content available despite every attempt to make it a bland, noname pile of generic poop.
    I couldn't have said it better myself, especially the bolded part. I never asked Turbine to waste hundreds of work hours and thousands of dollars(if not more) on Class Revamps, and neither did any of you. Yet here we are.

    The sea is calling us home...

  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Dordain View Post
    I never asked Turbine to waste hundreds of work hours and thousands of dollars(if not more) on Class Revamps, and neither did any of you. Yet here we are.
    Oh, I am sure there are a few who keep complaining how their class is broken, how the other classes are all overpowered, you know, the usual... someone might have gotten the idea from somewhere that the current system needs work. TBH, the current trait system is somewhat cumbersome and not self explanatory. It does require some effort to get the most out of it, and its not as if its easy to see what is going on. A redesign might be in order. As far as project approach comparison goes... there are multiple users here.... and we. as players, do have a vote, but its not a very strong one since we are not a very well-defined group, nor do we have a senior user who speaks for the entire group. We're a paying mass, and unstable at that. If expectations are that 25% of current playerbase will drop this game, but it will attract an amount of new players equal to 45% of current base, I'd redesign in a heartbeat too, and damn the vocal 25% that will quit playing. Thing is, we can't see what's going on behind the fence, all we get is the software they toss over ( that journeyman riding skill? sounds as if its been tossed over, a shamefull piece of engineering).


    The real question is, will this still be a game I, or others, like, after the update? Right now my magic eight ball is suggesting that "maybe" is the correct answer. Three weeks ago it said "probably not". I'm going to get this expanion on my lifer points. Each of us will have to think about this, and deceide on an individual basis. Despite what some are shouting about "everyone thinks this stinks" and whatnot, nobody speaks for the entire populace of the planet. And no-one in their right mind should try.
    Roses are red, Polar bears are white, if you meet one at night you'll get quite a fright.

  4. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by bastiat1 View Post
    Star Wars: The Old Republic just released...
    Sorry, but if that game dares put a price on content they'll lose those 100K customers they got left. That company has failed to deliver big time and has a lot of catching up to do. Haven't tried the game myself, but never before did I see a game get so hyped only to be left barren within a few weeks/months time.

    That being said, I'm not preordering Helms Deep either. The talent trees can be a gamebreaker for me. I'm looking for customization and from what I've seen they offer little of it.

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    5
    I bought last expansion for me and my lil bro to play together, and we had a blast. But, frankly, i´m a bit scared this time and i´ll explain why. I have only played two Morpg in my life, Swg (Starwars Galaxies) and Lotro, and am playing Lotro because SWG did exactly what turbine is doing now, a combat upgrade.

    Soe´s Combat Upgrade destroyed the game i loved, and i wasn't the only one to think that because it was the downfall of their subscription base until it had to go offline last year.

    This is mayor, this is no game update anymore. This is a company turning the light off and closing the door. They need a easy-to-manage cheap to run game cuzz they are moving on.

    This i applaud, this game has been my other world for 5 years now and ,despite of all the bad stuff, the balance has always been good, and like in Moria times, EXCELLENT!! more to say PERFECT!!.

    I know that whatever happens i would still love this game, its part of my life, and i will embark on any new turbine project (God let it be Hogwarts Online, let it be Hogwarts Online) because the never destroyed my confidence , like SOE did.

    Nevertheless, you have to make your statements in life clear, and i will not prepurchase HD, i sure will buy the expansion, but i wont prepurchase.

    Wounds never seem to completely heal, sorry Turbine.

    PS. and a big fat F U to SOE.

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    4,363
    Quote Originally Posted by Barrynor View Post
    You're not supposed to say that. You are supposed to complain and moan.

    What goes into Beta is probably not the same thing that comes out of Beta. What comes out of Beta is probably not the same thing that goes out live. Turbine is not here to ruin Lord of the Rings Online, they are here to keep the players and make a buck.
    I think this could be changed to they are here to keep some of the players and make a buck. They created no raids or instances so they are not trying to keep me happy. I have no proof that big battles will replace what I enjoy but they aren't putting anything else out. Continuing to scale the same tired content doesn't provide any incentive to go back in.

    Whatever is or isn't in Beta has nothing to do with pre-purchase for me. I was very disappointed in the quality and content of RoR. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice.....
    I'd explain it to you, but I'm all out of Puppets and Crayons.
    ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
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    Moochy, 105 Minstrel R10

  7. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by goldensilence View Post
    while that is sound advice i personally don't pay too much attention to what beta testers tend to say.
    You might want to rethink this stance. I mean really think about this. The beta testers are the ones that the developers are listening to right now. The beta testers are shaping the expansion. They are the ones looking for the most common flaws. They are the ones who are finding out what works and what doesn't work. They are even the ones who may be pointing out where the developers went wrong on things. And you just discount what they have to say? You mean... you aren't going to get Helm's Deep, especially considering the effect that the beta testers have had on the release?

    in a mature game like this, most beta testers tend to be seasoned players with probably more than 1 toon at current level cap (no, not all beta testers but i'd be willing to bet a high percentage of them). if that is the case, many players already at end-game tend to give a jaded view of things if it's not the be-all end-all they were expecting.
    You assume you know what kind of people the testers are... you "bet" you can group them into a category of player that is quite negative... and you automatically decide you are going to discount whatever advice seasoned and experienced players might have to give? That's quite absurd. You realize that you are the one who is proving to be quite jaded here. I'm not making a guess. I'm not betting on a high percentage. I'm taking the words coming out of your post and using them as proof. You have expressed an opinion and a guess about what experienced players are like, you have given it a negative spin, and you have attempted to use that erroneous information to justify why you consider whatever opinions and thoughts they have on the matter to be invalid. Where is your proof to back up what you say about experienced players?

    Moreover.. are you aware that Turbine has been offering Beta testing tickets to ANYONE WHO WANTS THEM? They are not passing them out only to experienced players. They are not hand-picking their testers. Do you even read the notices that are there in the client you use to log in to the game, before you put your password in?
    Get in! Claim your Helm's Deep Beta Code.Thu, 17 Oct 2013 15:22:55 +0000
    Like us on Facebook to claim your Helm's Deep Beta Code! Already liked us? Claim your code!


    Hurry, keys are limited!
    That is at the top of the notice listing right now. Sapience posted a thread about it here on the forums. They have been doing this on and off for weeks now. They don't care about how much experience you have... anyone is invited to test HD and give their opinions.

    this is just my opinion and while it may not be 100% accurate concerning the percentage of beta testers being 'seasoned' players, i'll still base my decisions on how i like the current game...which i do, flaws and all. i imagine that there are quite a few out there like me. then again maybe not.
    '
    It isn't about the accuracy of your percentage of beta testers being seasoned. You are deciding to spend your money based on faith. You believe that the expansion will turn out juuuuust fine, and that there will be no technical flaws, or performance issues... and that anything any beta tester has to say on these issues will be because of a jaded view.

    Let's put it this way. What if you buy it, and when you go to play it... you find it to be unplayable, due to a system requirement having been raised? Oh, I'm sure you've got the best gaming rig on the planet, but I'm speaking hypothetically. What if your system could barely handle RoR... and HD required even more system muscle? Wouldn't you feel foolish not being able to really play at all, regardless of your particular style, if the majority of the beta testers had commented on this very thing? If the beta testers, once they can actually talk publicly about what they are experiencing, had observations that would relate directly to you, your system, or your style of gameplay... wouldn't you want to know before you spent $60? With the current issues that STILL EXIST with the RoR expansion that make it unplayable for many people... don't you think it is wise to learn about this kind of stuff before you pay?

    You seem to assume that you know what the beta testers are going to talk about, and thus you know none of it will pertain to you. How could you know that?
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  8. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by bongart View Post
    You might want to rethink this stance. I mean really think about this. The beta testers are the ones that the developers are listening to right now. The beta testers are shaping the expansion. They are the ones looking for the most common flaws. They are the ones who are finding out what works and what doesn't work. They are even the ones who may be pointing out where the developers went wrong on things. And you just discount what they have to say? You mean... you aren't going to get Helm's Deep, especially considering the effect that the beta testers have had on the release?


    You assume you know what kind of people the testers are... you "bet" you can group them into a category of player that is quite negative... and you automatically decide you are going to discount whatever advice seasoned and experienced players might have to give? That's quite absurd. You realize that you are the one who is proving to be quite jaded here. I'm not making a guess. I'm not betting on a high percentage. I'm taking the words coming out of your post and using them as proof. You have expressed an opinion and a guess about what experienced players are like, you have given it a negative spin, and you have attempted to use that erroneous information to justify why you consider whatever opinions and thoughts they have on the matter to be invalid. Where is your proof to back up what you say about experienced players?

    Moreover.. are you aware that Turbine has been offering Beta testing tickets to ANYONE WHO WANTS THEM? They are not passing them out only to experienced players. They are not hand-picking their testers. Do you even read the notices that are there in the client you use to log in to the game, before you put your password in?

    That is at the top of the notice listing right now. Sapience posted a thread about it here on the forums. They have been doing this on and off for weeks now. They don't care about how much experience you have... anyone is invited to test HD and give their opinions.

    '
    It isn't about the accuracy of your percentage of beta testers being seasoned. You are deciding to spend your money based on faith. You believe that the expansion will turn out juuuuust fine, and that there will be no technical flaws, or performance issues... and that anything any beta tester has to say on these issues will be because of a jaded view.

    Let's put it this way. What if you buy it, and when you go to play it... you find it to be unplayable, due to a system requirement having been raised? Oh, I'm sure you've got the best gaming rig on the planet, but I'm speaking hypothetically. What if your system could barely handle RoR... and HD required even more system muscle? Wouldn't you feel foolish not being able to really play at all, regardless of your particular style, if the majority of the beta testers had commented on this very thing? If the beta testers, once they can actually talk publicly about what they are experiencing, had observations that would relate directly to you, your system, or your style of gameplay... wouldn't you want to know before you spent $60? With the current issues that STILL EXIST with the RoR expansion that make it unplayable for many people... don't you think it is wise to learn about this kind of stuff before you pay?

    You seem to assume that you know what the beta testers are going to talk about, and thus you know none of it will pertain to you. How could you know that?
    It's easy to make the assumption they made given the feedback we hear every single time someone mentions they were in a past beta. Every time I read a beta feedback excerpt I see the negativity and jadedness they person refers to. Simply because they catered to the "money" and not the "ME!" It's not a the leap of faith you describe....
    Holding on by the last hair on the dwarfs beard.

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    389
    I never asked Turbine to waste hundreds of work hours and thousands of dollars(if not more) on Class Revamps, and neither did any of you. Yet here we are.
    I actually did ask for it, in a submit question thingy-ma-jig ages back.

    Though I did not ask for all classes, I just felt over the years Guardians (I play other classes too) had been rather neglected in comparison to many others. (note keyword - I felt) Obviously they are going more extreme than I expected, but hey I bet they did there research. We here on the forums are but a minority.

    As for the expansion, well with any game I dunno its never really the mechanics that sell a game to me, nor certain content. It's mostly scenery, role-playability and if there is some form of group content - I only speak for myself when I say the rest is just fluff to me. Whilst yes I do like to dive into fluffy things on occasion, its an option rather than a deal maker or breaker.

    I enjoy this game for the above reasons, I've never played any game this long. (Admittedly initially I was dragged her kicking and screaming by my then friend now fiance)

    So when I was going to buy the expansion I was presently surprised that she had already purchased it for me.

    Happy all round.

    I can't see any negativity towards my own reasons...everyones just different.
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  10. #35
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    In the Ninky Nonk
    Posts
    4,395
    Any notion of "Value" is always in the eye of the beholder, which is why I will be buying HD (IF I buy it) after go live and after having spoken to kinnies as to their views of actually playing it.

    Each to their own though.
    <A sig goes here>

 

 
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