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  1. #51
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Chicago, IL
    I'm relatively new to LotRO and even newer to playing a so far completely dps RK but this sounds very promising to me. Building up your attunement IS slow and clunky; by the time I can use my bigger abilities, mobs are damn near dead anyway and it almost feels like a waste. Mostly spamming CA is just not fun to me. These RK notes sound exciting to me.

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Midwest US



    My Rune-keeper is very low-leveled (11, I think), but that's mostly because I've been playing Moria with my main (I started playing in March). I wanted a healer and tried out minstrel, but I ended up liking RK better. Seriously, she feels more like a god, er, I mean Maia, than an elf. I died once at level 9 or so, but that was mostly because I forgot to heal myself (oops!). I'm really looking forward to playing her some more.

    However, one of the things that drew me into Rune-keeper was the Attunement system. It's very unique, completely different from any other class I've played (everything except Lore-master and Warden)...and that makes it fun. The way Fervour is, IMO, inferior to Focus turned me off to Champion, probably because it wasn't anything new; it applied to melee damage instead of ranged damage, but it didn't persist out of combat, and the numbering system was more confusing (-1, -2, -3, -4, -5 is harder to keep track of than -1, -3, -6)...

    ...Oh yes, the Rune-keeper's Attunement. Seriously, if I wanted to use a build-up/cash-out mechanic, I'd play my Hunter (and I do--a lot). I really, truly like Attunement the way it is: use several battle skills, break out Shocking Words, and throw Prelude to Hope in there somewhere to keep myself alive. The changes mentioned in the diary would make the Attunement mechanic less unique and therefore make the class less fun (for me, anyway).

    Also, I really hope that locked skills are few in number. The Fury of Storm skill line currently has 7 skills, Words of Grace, 12 skills, and Wrath of Flame, 7 skills (not counting improvements). 7 skills isn't a whole lot, and removing more than 2 or 3 will make playing seem very spammy and repetitive. The diary doesn't make clear whether Rune of Restoration is locked away within Benedictions of Peace, but I will be very disappointed if it is. I like to put it down before every fight so I don't have to weave in PtH quite so much. Also, if you lock Ceaseless Argument, you'd have to replace it with another battle skill for early levels. I also believe it's the only skill with neither an induction nor a cooldown, making its loss without proper replacement even more disappointing. In addition, it's the only early damaging kill with no attunement requirement, making it quite a favorite.

    Y'all still have a month and a half to refine the changes, and what goes live with Helm's Deep isn't necessarily set in stone. The nice thing about an MMO is that the devs seem to patch things a whole lot more frequently than "traditional" games.

    As with pretty much all the other dev diaries, I look forward to more detailed explanations in the coming weeks. After all, the devil really is in the details.

    P.S. The skill names are fine. Bombastic Inspiration sounds, well, inspiring, and Sic 'Em makes me want to level a Lore-master just so I can use it.
    “Merely having an open mind is nothing. The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid.” - G.K. Chesterton
    On Landroval (Redemption): 105 GRD Lifthil, R6 | 67 WDN Liftward | 63 HNT Beinhareth | 51 CPT Liftspirit | 48 BUR Julo | 31 RNK Liftstoner | 16 CHN Liftbro | 7 BRN Liftbeorn

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Sylvan kingdom
    Maybe I should just re-spec full heal line when HD goes live.

    I can see it now... My Dwarf dancing and singing...

    "I heal ya raid faaaantastik da bearded booombastic..."

    Or not.
    Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar, tenn’ Ambar-metta!

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    I don't like the idea of the Hunter or Champion-style attunement bar....I have both of those classes already....why give a skill that sets our attunement back to 0?
    I've been at the mercy of men just following orders. Never again.

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Nouri View Post
    Why is flexibility a bad thing? There already is a considerable amount of down turn in executing many skills for which you're not traited. When I'm DPS traited, my healing skills heal for far less than when I'm heal traited, so there's a lot of built in down turn already. With the expansion, we're moving toward a state where everyone is much more of a one trick pony.
    Well the devs wanted to cut down on do-it-all classes it seems.

    It all depends how many points will be left over and what skills will actually be available. If you traited fully yellow then you will likely still be able to do so fully in the lightning tree but have points left over to spend elsewhere. Whether that is fire to open some fire skills or BoP to open more healing skills - well we will see.

    Additionally we have the choice to change our traits each time we are out of combat so you can choose at least before each fight whether to go pure dps, half dps half healing or full healing. This is something we did not really have before and it is to be seen how that will work out with respect to usefulness in group content.

  6. #56
    "They also have access to powerful Area Effect heals, making them a very competent group healer..."

    We are already a very competent group healer

    "...Adding Essay of Exaltation to the mix, which provides more healing over time as well as placing a bubble on your allies."

    This suggests it may be used in a regular rotation. Will this be a shorter cooldown than 5 minutes? A shorter cooldown often implies reduced potency which means we lose an emergency skill. I don't want my emergency skills taken away to improve aoe healing that doesn't need improving.

    "new addition to the Area Effect arsenal of the healing Rune-keeper is a new Our Fate’s Entwined Runestone. Now place able at range, this stone re-directs 60% of all damage directly to itself for a period of time or until it is destroyed by the damage it absorbs."

    What type of of morale pool does this stone have? How does this interact with DoTs? Things like captain's In Harms Way will reduce the dot damage by 50% but not transfer it over (making it very potent against dots) and guardian shield-wall negates dots altogether.

    "The first change we made was not to gate any skill by a minimum amount of attunement. For example, as a fire Rune-keeper, Smouldering Wrath no longer requires 9 battle attunement to become useable. This makes more skills available at any point. This also plays into the next point: attunement cashout skills."

    Cashout skills is the same thing as hunter focus skills, champion fervour pips, minstrel coda. I like the RK attunement system (mostly) as-is because it creates a different play-style. That is a big turn-off for me turning RK playstyle into glorified hunters, minstrels, and champions.

    "Deeper in the tree, they can unlock the ability that turns Thunderous Words and Harsh Debate into Closing Remarks, which greatly increases the damage of Epic Conclusion and lowers the cooldown after use. However, Epic Conclusion will consume Closing Remarks on use, creating an interesting choice for the Rune-keeper."

    +15% damage and +1700 finesse is a huge amount. What does Closing Remarks do? If we turn TW & HD into Closing Remarks do we lose our damage & finesse at that point? Is the proc rate for thunderous words and harsh debate still going be a measly 10%? If EC doesn't crit or dev you'd actually lose a huge amount of dps by using the skill if it takes away our big damage buffs. This sounds like it could be very bad unless I see 30-40k EC devs on a regular basis
    Last edited by timmyloo22546; Oct 04 2013 at 06:02 PM.

  7. #57
    I really want to see the trees now. I like the idea of 3 new runestones: rune of restoration, rune of fates entwined, and rune of dps/stun. I would probably use the fates one most depending on its morale pool. That sounds better than my dwarf skill endurance of stone and would be far more useful. I wonder if you will be able to trait more than one?

    It sounds like essay/word of exaltation will be as potent for emergency if highly attuned. I also want to know if the cooldown will change to make it useful in regular rotation at lower attunement.

    I didn't see any mention of affinity. Will the damage type used still change affinity? Will we have at least one fire/frost/lightning skill to change it while full healing. I normally use do not fall to flame and armour of storm. It would be nice if this became a toggle skill like the trait line one one in mounted combat.

    I didn't quite understand how attunement will swing more quickly (1-6 steps) per skill instead of 1 per skill. What will unlock/change the rate of building attunement? Does each skill have a different attunement shift? Or will the same skill shift attunement say 1 in a certain situation and 6 in another.
    Last edited by DMagius; Oct 04 2013 at 08:22 PM.
    Aut inveniam viam aut faciam

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaynith View Post
    I didn't mean from the game across all classes, I meant specifically for the Rune-keeper. It looks to me like they're gone. If they're NOT, I'd certainly like to hear an official verification of that. I use my frost skills a LOT. All of them. I love slowing down my enemies, especially during solo play.

    Also, as someone else mentioned, there's very little response from anyone on this dev diary. We've only got what, two pages of responses, by very few people. Where IS everyone with their opinions, be it pro/con or a mix? This thread is a ghost town, and should be hopping with input! Where'd all our fellow RKs go?
    My main is a RK, has been for a while now. Now for the rest of your questions.... there are very real reasons why I have chosen to not share my opinions on these forums about the upcoming changes....

    My opinion is considered meaningless because I am a customer, and customers are seldom considered "right" anymore by any Corporation (a problem with American Society, not Turbine specifically);

    My opinion will now be recorded, datamined, and potentially used against me, therefore it is unwise to voice one's full opinion on anything in the Internet now, as such I do not feel comfortable with voicing my opinions about RK or anything to do with LotRO as I once did years ago (once again, not Turbine's fault);

    My opinion I do not share on FaceBook ever, so my opinion does not attract the attention of Turbine or Warner Bros (since all of our World's Society seems bent on utilizing FB, Turbine would probably considered unprofessional not to follow the Herd);

    My opinion is meaningless because I simply cannot convey an idea or participate in a debate or a discussion when most Readers will desire to have me condense my comments down so they could be posted on Twitter or Texted.

    Perhaps others have come to similar conclusions and have decided it's a waste of time to come to these Forums and use them as Forums when it becomes increasingly a pointless endeavor. No matter how we feel about the changes it won't change a thing about HD. I wish that were not true, but it is. I learned with the F2P conversion that no matter what argument or debate you field to convince Turbine to alter some of the new changes it won't matter. HD is already "written in stone" and objections and concerns won't matter unless we cancel our Subscription or join a Focus Group, and even then only the major reasons chosen by the default exit form will matter and only as data will our opinions continue on.

    That's how the World works now. (and NO I don't agree it should be that way either.)

    In regard to LotRO where does that leave me with HD and the RK changes? Playing a MMO I love but feel it doesn't love me back (utilizing a product I no longer am comfortable providing feedback on or for). Not a good place for a Customer to be in.
    Last edited by gardavil; Oct 04 2013 at 11:55 PM.

  9. #59
    HD is already "written in stone" and objections and concerns won't matter
    Pretty much true. Only thing that drastically changed given enough discussion is the Epic for the Ages heal. The RK dev would argue it's the best healing per second single target heal in game, called us idiots for not using it, and whole bunch of other silly responses. We had to keep telling him that something that sounds good on paper doesn't mean it works remotely decent IN GAME. A 4.5s induction heal was basically worthless. It was such a long period that we often got setback, mezzed, stunned, feared, silenced etc and it wouldn't go off OR by time the heal goes off our target got healed by someone else which made our heal pointless. It took multiple expansions for them to change it to something good. I feel it shouldn't take that long to change a horrible skill to something decent/good -- especially when the devs think it's the best healing skill there is when it's 1 of the worst. Gives players a bad impression when the people who design skills don't even play the game.

  10. #60
    The "skill bloat" reduction thing they're talking about worries me. Are they talking about eliminating certain RK skills all together, or just limiting their availability depending on how you're specced? I'm very worried about losing our Frost debuffs! Frost traits are kind of mixed in with the lightening and fire trait lines atm. This makes me wonder..... if they reduce the number of RK skills, will these be some of the first to go because their traits are mixed in w/ lightening and fire and they don't consider frost skills 'important skills'? I use my frost debuffs all the time in the Moors. They are super effective skills out there, and I'd be mortified (read very, very, very upset!!!!) if we lost them. That would be a huge nerf (losing our debuffs) to RKs!
    Last edited by Nouri; Oct 07 2013 at 05:17 PM.
    Casinoari - Rank 15 RK
    Malakorou - Rank 10 Defiler
    Casinari - Original Challenger of Saruman Minstrel

  11. #61
    Here's another thing to consider....... How many skills will 'cash-out' your attunement, and how many skills will have their effectiveness linked to your attunement level? If I'm lightening traited and I throw a cash-out skill like EC, will that mean that the rest of my skills hit like wet noodles until I get my attunement up again?

    And Devs, please don't take our Chill of Winter skills away from us in getting rid of "skill bloat" and because they don't fit neatly in the Fire, Lightening and Healing trait lines. Those are some of an RK's very best PvMP skills!
    Casinoari - Rank 15 RK
    Malakorou - Rank 10 Defiler
    Casinari - Original Challenger of Saruman Minstrel

  12. #62
    The RK is losing too many skills due to the changes because they r useless when attunement no longer works the way it was envisioned to do. You have no need for steady skills and there is no real flexibility available. YOu will heal or dps. Most beta player will not post because as others have said there is no point. This premium class is has been trashed and remade into a shadow of itself. My poor RK will be shelved indefinitely. As for using points to gain that flexibility back the backbone that many RK use the runestone of restoration is half way down the healing line and it takes 2 times the points to gain anything outside your chosen line. The first line item you HAVE to get to get to the healing skills will cost at least 6 of your points. You only get 1 point every other level and points for completing a class deed. (one each)

  13. #63
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    St Louis Mo
    You guys should probably take that discussion and those questions to here now:


    Not in Beta to answer, but I know for my classes, we are keeping those discussions in our class threads.


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