Kate's Call To Arms

[Kate00]

Everyday its a grams camp. Everyday its the Grams/bd Lugz shuffle. Tonight a whole Fraid of freeps camped the Creeps at grams who had the outnumbered buff.

Creeps:
We need to start grouping what little numbers we have and move the fight somewhere else. When lugz is blue, we take it back, if we have the numbers. (Yes, I realize how inconvenient the auto flip is.) If they want to camp we will flip all the OP's red and they can do it without the buff. Yes, I know they will flip them back ..... but so can we. I'm here on creepside to help because of the current imbalance. Let me help you kill them, let me help you stop this obsessive camping. We need to work together as a group, coordinated and as a force to stop this mentality that camping is somehow fun. Its not fun. I know you are all discouraged with minis standing there spam healing themselves while you can't out dps their heals. I know you are all tired of being ec'd for 5-10k. I know you are sick of feeling underpowered with 4 shield traited wardens camping you at grams. If we don't start working together to stop the camping, nothing will ever change.

Invite your freep friends to come play creepside. Invite your kinmates. If you won't be around to help them when they can play, have them send me a tell when I'm on and I'll be glad to help them. Lets stop complaining a do something!


Freeps:

Two things here:
1. Shame on you. ESPECIALLY YOU HIGHER RANKED FOLKS. You know better. It makes me so angry to watch you sit there and make it a camp every day. Just like tonight. You know the creeps have the ON buff, do you really need a fraid to camp grams? I can't even begin to express my disappointment in you. None of you can really be happy with the way the moors is. Yet the moors is what we make it right? Do you really want to camp grams everyday, all day?

2. Initiate a change. Don't know how? Kate will tell you .... Disband the fraid if its a camp or move the fight. Go take the relics, go flip a keep, go do grothum quests, go kill the delving bosses. Don't purposely make it a camp. Decide you aren't going to go to grams if lugz is blue or even better yet ... come play your creep. I'll help you. I'll be more than glad to help you. There a lots of creeps that will help you get maps and quest items if you need them. I know, I know, every freep I try to talk to says the same thing ... nothing will change. Well maybe it won't the first day you try. Maybe it won't the second day. Maybe it won't even be different on the eighth day but I will guarantee you this ... nothing will change at all if you don't try.

[ulza]

There is a nice saying: 'you can lead a horse to water but can't make it drink'

For months it looks like people just want to be camped. As long as people give them points camps will continue.

There are 2 options:

1. Fight back (which i prefer, but hard since the absurd # of freeps)
2. Stop feeding them, see numbers decrease and wipe them.

[the_matrix]

LOTRO PvP has always been a straightforward numbers game for me, and its amazing that such thinking escapes the majority of players today. There are two simple yet concurrent objectives I have while playing in the moors: 1) Earning Points, 2) Denying my enemy points. They're purposely listed in this order because the first usually trumps the second, yet the second mitigates my commitment to the first. Strategically speaking, give your enemies hope and they'll continue to fight. Rob them of all hope and don't be surprised when they don't come back to fight.

To put it another way, I'd rather earn 2000 infamy in an hour and give freeps 500 renown in return, then absolutely destroy freeps in one fight, earn 1000 points, give them zero, and have them rage log for the next two hours.

So as Kate has done, I have to question the logic of these lopsided freep raids camping grams all day, as it seems much more advantageous to disband the raid, find the smaller fights around the map, and attempt to win those fights in a manner that urges the creeps to return and engage again, as opposed to farming them for 20 minutes and killing the action for the better part of a day. Sure you may die a little more, but your return, if executed properly, will be substantially higher than anything you currently earn.

Of course this formula is a careful balance, making sure to weigh the points given to the points received, as I know for a fact none of us want to be seen as pushovers or wussies or anything of that sort. But if the opposite or avoidance of that of that is a complete domination play style, well then the moors is truly dead.

--Rigs

[timmyloo22546]

If I had an option to group with a handful of creeps who have the slightest idea how to play I'd be on creep more.

If certain creeps played their freeps out in the Moors I would LOVE to be on creep side. These R10+ creeps have a hard time mastering a simple class. I'd love front row seats watching them play their freep.

Creeps spend too much time blaming their failures on freeps "exploiting," gear-swapping, cheating, being overpowered, etc. If they complained less n actually learned how to play it wouldn't be so bad.

~Askir

[ulza]

If I had an option to group with a handful of creeps who have the slightest idea how to play I'd be on creep more.

Most of the experienced creeps are fed up with the daily camping. If we manage to get a group/ raid togheter freeps log the moment they wipe (yes happens on both sides. But we know whose fault that is)

If certain creeps played their freeps out in the Moors I would LOVE to be on creep side. These R10+ creeps have a hard time mastering a simple class. I'd love front row seats watching them play their freep.

Rank 10 means nothing nowadays. its the new r6 imo. Yes lots of the RoR10 like i call them are terribad. Why? because they ranked up too fast and havent been in a single rvr. Zerging all the way!

Creeps spend too much time blaming their failures on freeps "exploiting," gear-swapping, cheating, being overpowered, etc. If they complained less n actually learned how to play it wouldn't be so bad.

It's the easiest thing to do. we'll see 'creeps are op QQ' again in HD.

Yes i know how to play defiler (main reason why everybody targets me all the time), but lotro isnt a solo game. The group is only as good as the weakest link.


Edit: my spelling is bad. but dont worry it will be 'fixed' in next update

[Kate00]

There is a nice saying: 'you can lead a horse to water but can't make it drink'

For months it looks like people just want to be camped. As long as people give them points camps will continue.

There are 2 options:

1. Fight back (which i prefer, but hard since the absurd # of freeps)
2. Stop feeding them, see numbers decrease and wipe them.

It is so very true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. At this point I just want the wolves to let the horses out of the rez circle so they can attempt to try to get to water. What I think we sort of need, and I'm gonna continue with horses here, is a few donkeys. Don't laugh! I'm serious. I grew up with horses and we always had donkeys in the pastures with them. They get pretty aggressive with predators like wolves, coyotes, and cougars. They protect livestock from these predators. So I think we need a few folks on both sides, aka donkeys, that would help break up this camping. My original post was my suggestions on what the "donkeys" could do. I totally agree with you Cryo, it does seem like some folks want to be camped AND that some folks just want to camp.

So as Kate has done, I have to question the logic of these lopsided freep raids camping grams all day, as it seems much more advantageous to disband the raid, find the smaller fights around the map, and attempt to win those fights in a manner that urges the creeps to return and engage again, as opposed to farming them for 20 minutes and killing the action for the better part of a day. Sure you may die a little more, but your return, if executed properly, will be substantially higher than anything you currently earn.
--Rigs

That sounds so much better than the way I put it lol.

If I had an option to group with a handful of creeps who have the slightest idea how to play I'd be on creep more.
If they complained less n actually learned how to play it wouldn't be so bad.
~Askir

How dare you! Really HOW DARE YOU, say they need to l2p. There are kids that play this game, working parents, college students, retired folks. I can promise you that LEARNING to PLAY their class PERFECTLY is not on the top of their priorty list. It most certainly isn't mine. NOT ONE TIME in 4 years have I heard anyone say "psh I'm not grouping with this or that person because they need to L2P." If this is how folks on Vilya think, then we are in big trouble when it comes to the moors.

[mrfigglesworth]

i'd like to see a way to be able to know if someone is around to fight. There's no point to roam the map solo at the moment because I will most likely miss any other solo creeps anyways, even if they're just around the next corner. I don't mean trackers either, I don't want to know exactly where they are, just if there's something around I should be looking for.

This whole "it's this side's fault" thing is unproductive, like most finger pointing is.

[timmyloo22546]

How dare you! Really HOW DARE YOU, say they need to l2p. There are kids that play this game, working parents, college students, retired folks. I can promise you that LEARNING to PLAY their class PERFECTLY is not on the top of their priorty list. It most certainly isn't mine. NOT ONE TIME in 4 years have I heard anyone say "psh I'm not grouping with this or that person because they need to L2P." If this is how folks on Vilya think, then we are in big trouble when it comes to the moors.

I see I struck a nerve. Why are people not interested in bettering themselves? I consider PvMP a competitive environment. I'd expect players to pick and choose who they group with. Sometimes when I group with bad players it takes away from my fun so I choose not to group with them. I didn't tell them l2p. I simply mentioned until they l2p I likely wouldn't group with them. I'm not saying they have to l2p.

Why does it matter if lug is blue? You don't have to participate in a grams camp just because the map is blue. Back in the day when the map is blue I'd often be in a small group hanging out at regular routes (stab/gta/bv) on my creep. We'd catch solo'rs initially. Then they'd call in 1 or 2 more at a time and it'd turn into some good skirmishes no where near grams when the map is blue.

So as Kate has done, I have to question the logic of these lopsided freep raids camping grams all day

If by freep raid you mean 3-5 different small groups and various solo players, than yeah. There is a reason everyone always ends up at grams...none of the creeps small group (because they dont know how to play and have to rely on many others to support them). Hence, any small freep group is bound to end up at grams because creeps aren't anywhere else on the map.

Yeah we have a small amount of good creeps but if you throw in a good healer with bad dps than nothing dies. If you throw in good dps with bad healers than creeps never stay alive long enough to finish the job.

[Kate00]

Ok Askir why don't you tell me how long should it take the following creeps to learn how to play their class ...

Kid 1:
10 yrs old, goes to school 5 days a week. Parents let him play 2 hours every night if he has no homework and 3 hours a day on Saturday and Sunday.

Kid 2:
15 yrs old, goes to school 5 days a week. Can't play Mon-Wed or Friday. Logs in for 3 hours on Thursday. Logs in for 4 hours Saturday and Sunday.


Adult 1:
Works Full time job, logs in after work 2 hours, Monday-Thursday. 3 hours Saturday and 4 hours Sunday.

Adult 2:
Full time college student with part time job. Only gets to play Saturday and Sunday for 4 hours.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bettering your self at a video game is NOT at the top of MOST folks priority list. And yes, everyone can choose who they group with. For example, I won't group with Farmers, Exploiters, or folks that cj me.

The reason that its a Camp everyday is because FREEPS make it that way, not because CREEPS don't know how to play. Lugs is always blue, it never auto flips to creep. In fact the whole map is blue. The relics are freep controlled. The Freeps have all the delving buffs and I spend most of my time flipping ops to keep them even so creeps have something. This starts early in the morning and goes on till way after I go to bed at night. Creeps are outnumbered at grams being camped, and your solution to this is to have the new creeps with no maps go where?

Just to be clear, I'm not pointing a finger at one side. I have 10 fingers to point a both. Creeps need to group and Freeps need to stop camping.

[ulza]

i'd like to see a way to be able to know if someone is around to fight. There's no point to roam the map solo at the moment because I will most likely miss any other solo creeps anyways, even if they're just around the next corner. I don't mean trackers either, I don't want to know exactly where they are, just if there's something around I should be looking for.

This whole "it's this side's fault" thing is unproductive, like most finger pointing is.

Several times ive seen freeps just riding to grams even when the entire map is red. What do they expect? seeing a gramscamp when map is red? Some people still roam solo trying to get a nice 1v1 going. Too bad 99% of the freeps are grouped up and gramscamping. Happened several times when i found a rare freep solo that some of his friends jump in. (i rather have them run away in a 1v1).

Yes we can point fingers to eachothers side. But in order to get changes both sides have to change.

Ok Askir why don't you tell me how long should it take the following creeps to learn how to play their class ...

Kid 1:
10 yrs old, goes to school 5 days a week. Parents let him play 2 hours every night if he has no homework and 3 hours a day on Saturday and Sunday.

Kid 2:
15 yrs old, goes to school 5 days a week. Can't play Mon-Wed or Friday. Logs in for 3 hours on Thursday. Logs in for 4 hours Saturday and Sunday.


Adult 1:
Works Full time job, logs in after work 2 hours, Monday-Thursday. 3 hours Saturday and 4 hours Sunday.

Adult 2:
Full time college student with part time job. Only gets to play Saturday and Sunday for 4 hours.

Some people just want to play for fun. I agree with kate: Pointing out that 'creeps need to learn their class' is kinda BS. First they need a chance to learn this class. This isnt going to happen with the daily gramscamp, zerging of pve'ing. Besides the # of incompetent freeps is as high!

Yes i do play for fun (suprised ? Maybe talk to me ingame before judging because we kill eachother on daily base in the moors). Creep community used to be great back during RoI. Nowadays its just ####.

The reason that its a Camp everyday is because FREEPS make it that way, not because CREEPS don't know how to play. Lugs is always blue, it never auto flips to creep. In fact the whole map is blue. The relics are freep controlled. The Freeps have all the delving buffs and I spend most of my time flipping ops to keep them even so creeps have something. This starts early in the morning and goes on till way after I go to bed at night. Creeps are outnumbered at grams being camped, and your solution to this is to have the new creeps with no maps go where?

Just to be clear, I'm not pointing a finger at one side. I have 10 fingers to point a both. Creeps need to group and Freeps need to stop camping.

For some reason there is always 1 freep sitting (afk?) in lugz during the daily gramscamp. Trying to ninja it while the freeps are camping grams is useless.

But the main reason why the action is bad is, are the 'keep/delving/op buff's'. Old time creeps (freeps too) stopped playing or log in less frequently because of this. They spend years to get a rank that you can get in a week. Too bad the creep population doesnt have a 'new generation' to replace them. Afterall who would like to play creepside when you cant even get maps because keeps are blue?

[srog72]

Few things:

1. In groups of 12 or more, for some people the lag is off the charts. Solo FTW
2. There is only a couple of people still around to lead in the moors; most don't wanna deal with illiterate hard-headed noob pugs.
3. The fight goes from Grams to Back Door cause its a bee-line and people choose to do this.
4. Some people are so screwed in the head that they actually hate other people over a game; so they play with an agenda that's actually worthless.
5. The Freep you talk about now will be on Creep-side in Five minutes.

i don't know how to fix any of this Kate but the mini is coming back to Grothum again.

[mrfigglesworth]

i know how to fix it.

1. make max group size 6
2. remove audacity (or at least diminish the -incoming damage from audacity to half of what it currently is)
3. cap crit multipliers at +100%
4. give both sides an ability to "sense" if someone from the other side is around before they can actually see them, and give higher ranked creeps/freeps a longer range sense.
5. give all greenie creeps crude maps to start out and work for the better ones (or whatever the worst kind of map is), and let creeps pick up quests for maps somewhere besides keeps.
6. give people a reason to spread out and fight in different places(dynamic area buffs).

But I can't do any of that, nor do i Know if any or all of that is possible considering the budget for lotro pvp is pathetic.

[eagleeye64]

Ok Askir why don't you tell me how long should it take the following creeps to learn how to play their class ...

Kid 1:
10 yrs old, goes to school 5 days a week. Parents let him play 2 hours every night if he has no homework and 3 hours a day on Saturday and Sunday.

Kid 2:
15 yrs old, goes to school 5 days a week. Can't play Mon-Wed or Friday. Logs in for 3 hours on Thursday. Logs in for 4 hours Saturday and Sunday.


Adult 1:
Works Full time job, logs in after work 2 hours, Monday-Thursday. 3 hours Saturday and 4 hours Sunday.

Adult 2:
Full time college student with part time job. Only gets to play Saturday and Sunday for 4 hours.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bettering your self at a video game is NOT at the top of MOST folks priority list. And yes, everyone can choose who they group with. For example, I won't group with Farmers, Exploiters, or folks that cj me.

The reason that its a Camp everyday is because FREEPS make it that way, not because CREEPS don't know how to play. Lugs is always blue, it never auto flips to creep. In fact the whole map is blue. The relics are freep controlled. The Freeps have all the delving buffs and I spend most of my time flipping ops to keep them even so creeps have something. This starts early in the morning and goes on till way after I go to bed at night. Creeps are outnumbered at grams being camped, and your solution to this is to have the new creeps with no maps go where?

Just to be clear, I'm not pointing a finger at one side. I have 10 fingers to point a both. Creeps need to group and Freeps need to stop camping.

Sorry Kate but if they can get r12+ Lotro is a pretty high priority for them. Even in RoR it takes major dedication to get there, or major zerging. These high ranked peeps still complain about the game, as if they don't realize all that time spent Zerging is time that could be used to learn your class...and not just for solo, for rvr. Creeps with even numbers/more numbers with DECENT ranks will shy away from well played or atleast average played well geared freeps that a group/raid of organized creeps could wipe or atleast give them a run for their money. Vilya has plenty of r11+s now that don't know how to play.

Why invest SO MUCH time into PvP if you're not actually going to learn how to be successful in most situations and not just the "get overwhelming numbers and win" situation? It's like raiding kins running raids every night of almost every day of the week, just to learn how to exploit them instead of doing them correctly. What's the point? Or just running the same raid tier 1 over and over for meager loot and no sense of accomplishment. Other people who like play casually, sure whatevs. Do whatever you want, but if you get rolled over don't complain. People who actually try to learn the game and put work into it should WIN. It's like losing your job to someone who works less, gets paid more, and doesn't have any ambition. They just took your job, possibly your dream job, and don't even TRY. How is that any fair?

That's my MAIN problem with most of these time-consuming games. The casual players are being spoon fed because of a business standpoint from the companies that make the game. Lotro has been continuously dumbed down and will always be. If this game required so much time to be invested to be successful, casual gamers would go elsewhere...but I say people are truly hardcore will eventually just move on. The vets, the ones who learned the game in multiple ways instead of just quitting when they're faced with an obstacle. PvP is supposed to be competitive, not to see how many more people you can get to win. How fun would football be if the other team was able to amass more people to their side than the opposing team? How fair would it be if they're not even ATHLETIC, but just play football "Casually" and constantly beat people who TRAIN EVERY SINGLE DAY to be their BEST. Those athletes will eventually move on I guess, or complain about how the game they loved and worked for has become more of a joke than a competitive sport.

[Kate00]

For some reason there is always 1 freep sitting (afk?) in lugz during the daily gramscamp. Trying to ninja it while the freeps are camping grams is useless.

I've noticed this as well. I don't think it can auto flip when you have someone afk in there.

Few things:
i don't know how to fix any of this Kate but the mini is coming back to Grothum again.

Ok?

That's my MAIN problem with most of these time-consuming games. The casual players are being spoon fed because of a business standpoint from the companies that make the game. Lotro has been continuously dumbed down and will always be.

I'm in no way saying that the casual gamers should be spoon fed. What I am saying is or asking really:
Do we really call the 10 yr old kid a noob and tell him to L2P?
Do we refuse to group with this 10 yr old because he doesn't have the amount of time to invest in the game like the hard-core gamer?
Do we really as a community blame this kid for the current state of the moors?
At the end of the day is it really ok to camp this kid at grams when hes trying to get around the moors to get his min map and then tell him its his fault he's being camped?

[eagleeye64]

I've noticed this as well. I don't think it can auto flip when you have someone afk in there.





Ok?



I'm in no way saying that the casual gamers should be spoon fed. What I am saying is or asking really:
Do we really call the 10 yr old kid a noob and tell him to L2P?
Do we refuse to group with this 10 yr old because he doesn't have the amount of time to invest in the game like the hard-core gamer?
Do we really as a community blame this kid for the current state of the moors?
At the end of the day is it really ok to camp this kid at grams when hes trying to get around the moors to get his min map and then tell him its his fault he's being camped?

No Yes No.
The real question is, why is a 10 year old playing a teen rated game? I mean I used to play GTA when I was 10...okay nvm.
People will group with who they want though, even if they aren't as good as another. If someone wants to group with people who do PvP hardcore, there's no problem with that. It's quite honestly their game I suppose. Like if you group with close friends everyday and just have fun.

Also, PvP has never really been a friendly place. Not sure if that's good or bad, depending on who's receiving the problems and who's causing them. People will 'taunt' enemies in competitive play to get them to dislike them. If you dislike someone in PvP, you usually want to make them as mad as they made you. How? Win. What I'm saying here is some people will act mean, but while seemingly being jerks, only want the opposing team to whip into shape and strike them with everything they've got. I don't think there's that many PvPers like that left in Lotro however, because most who were actually hardcore have long since quit this game.

The moors has always required you to have thick skin I suppose, not everyone's going to treat you nicely. They don't know who's behind the computer, but they know it's an enemy and they expect a fight from them. A challenge(some do at least). If that person's not bringing their A-game they're going to be rolled over and possibly taunted.(I can name a certain r14 Warg who will continuously corspe jump and pee on me, as well one or two of his friends. Makes me want to kill them more) Can't help that, you can ignore those people but they won't stop. I don't like saying this but if they can't handle the PvP they should really just PvE. The PvE community is REALLY mature, and they're usually pretty nice barring the elitists.(Usually all in one kin anyway, and just joke around in their circle since they're comfortable with eachother. Someone that's not in that circle may take them the wrong way.) But if you really have an interest in PvP, that 10 year old kid is going to have to be taught the ignore button. Most people aren't actually trying to target a 10 year old kid, they're targetting a PvPer. I think I'm being repetitive but I don't know if I'm wording this right lol. Trying not to be a jerk while spewing out everything I know personally of PvP.

I guess, in short, PvP is competitive, not really a "kid's place" so to speak. However I will agree that if PvP for a certain side is bad and can be fixed by grouping up, go for it. You gotta be willing to lead though. The casual, or kid, may find a tough time finding a good group to get in because most leaders won't deal with people who either don't listen, don't try, or aren't good enough for a certain group. (Not to sound elitist but sometimes certain fights require perfection to overcome the opposition. That's understandable. I knew Tribes that wouldn't recruit unless you were r6+ and had all Good maps 'cept Isen back in the day, and there was a Tribe that would bring in the Greenies and help them reach such goals.)

[mald123]

### happened to reply??

[Kate00]

No Yes No.
The real question is, why is a 10 year old playing a teen rated game? I mean I used to play GTA when I was 10...okay nvm.
People will group with who they want though, even if they aren't as good as another. If someone wants to group with people who do PvP hardcore, there's no problem with that. It's quite honestly their game I suppose. Like if you group with close friends everyday and just have fun.

Also, PvP has never really been a friendly place. Not sure if that's good or bad, depending on who's receiving the problems and who's causing them. People will 'taunt' enemies in competitive play to get them to dislike them. If you dislike someone in PvP, you usually want to make them as mad as they made you. How? Win. What I'm saying here is some people will act mean, but while seemingly being jerks, only want the opposing team to whip into shape and strike them with everything they've got. I don't think there's that many PvPers like that left in Lotro however, because most who were actually hardcore have long since quit this game.

The moors has always required you to have thick skin I suppose, not everyone's going to treat you nicely. They don't know who's behind the computer, but they know it's an enemy and they expect a fight from them. A challenge(some do at least). If that person's not bringing their A-game they're going to be rolled over and possibly taunted.(I can name a certain r14 Warg who will continuously corspe jump and pee on me, as well one or two of his friends. Makes me want to kill them more) Can't help that, you can ignore those people but they won't stop. I don't like saying this but if they can't handle the PvP they should really just PvE. The PvE community is REALLY mature, and they're usually pretty nice barring the elitists.(Usually all in one kin anyway, and just joke around in their circle since they're comfortable with eachother. Someone that's not in that circle may take them the wrong way.) But if you really have an interest in PvP, that 10 year old kid is going to have to be taught the ignore button. Most people aren't actually trying to target a 10 year old kid, they're targetting a PvPer. I think I'm being repetitive but I don't know if I'm wording this right lol. Trying not to be a jerk while spewing out everything I know personally of PvP.

I guess, in short, PvP is competitive, not really a "kid's place" so to speak. However I will agree that if PvP for a certain side is bad and can be fixed by grouping up, go for it. You gotta be willing to lead though. The casual, or kid, may find a tough time finding a good group to get in because most leaders won't deal with people who either don't listen, don't try, or aren't good enough for a certain group. (Not to sound elitist but sometimes certain fights require perfection to overcome the opposition. That's understandable. I knew Tribes that wouldn't recruit unless you were r6+ and had all Good maps 'cept Isen back in the day, and there was a Tribe that would bring in the Greenies and help them reach such goals.)

Kids, at least my two oldest kids were interesting in the game because I was. I suspect thats why a lot of kids play the game. (I don't let them play on vilya though) The problem is the "greenies" can't even get their min map to grams cause lugz is always blue. I tired to help some of them this morning by taking lugz, and of course the freeps want it blue so they can camp grams and weren't going to let that happen. So I've decided that perhaps Smegg was right about logging off. Creeps are always outnumbered and always camped and its not fun. So yall are gonna have to come up with a term for Kate Breaks cause thats what I'm going to tell creeps from now on. Log and come back later after freeps have had enough of playing with themselves, unless someone else has a better suggestion ...

[mrfigglesworth]

if you really want lugs red how about talk to a few vets and coordinate a time where you get a nice sized group of creeps to take and hold lugs until the greenies get their quest? Make a website, set up a schedule that differs in time daily so freeps can't catch on. There are lots of times during the day when freeps are few and far between.

Complaining about freeps doing what they're supposed to be doing is kind of pointless. I don't know one person on freepside that would sit back and watch a keep get flipped to red, nor do I know one person on creepside that would sit back and watch a keep get flipped to blue.


ps. freeps that raid up when the map is completely blue and creeps are getting grams camped are pathetic, but what can you do? They pay their sub and play how they want.

[Kate00]

if you really want lugs red how about talk to a few vets and coordinate a time where you get a nice sized group of creeps to take and hold lugs until the greenies get their quest? Make a website, set up a schedule that differs in time daily so freeps can't catch on. There are lots of times during the day when freeps are few and far between.

Complaining about freeps doing what they're supposed to be doing is kind of pointless. I don't know one person on freepside that would sit back and watch a keep get flipped to red, nor do I know one person on creepside that would sit back and watch a keep get flipped to blue.


ps. freeps that raid up when the map is completely blue and creeps are getting grams camped are pathetic, but what can you do? They pay their sub and play how they want.

Oh I'm complaining because there is NOTHING that says they are suppose to keep lugz blue and camp grams. I don't know how long you have been in the moors Figs but I remember freeps REFUSING to take lugs because they didn't want it to be a grams camp. I remember fraids Disbanding if they did because they weren't going to camp grams. I remember if lugz was blue freeps NOT defending it so creeps could take it back. I remember freeps begging other freeps NOT to flip it or defend it. So you may not know one person freepside or creepside that would sit back and let these things happen, but I know a lot. So let me ask you this, if I coordinate with the vets and make this website just so creeps can get their maps .... are you going to coordinate with freep vets and make a website to help these freeps do something other than camp and sit in lugz?

I actually flipped over and invited freeps out to play their creeps this morning and the response I got was a little more than rude.

The creeps have 3 groups of greenies atm. We have the EU/Aussie folks that play very early morning my time. The folks US/SA/Can folks that play my afternoons. Then the weekenders.

re your ps: don't group with them, don't help them, refuse to be part of it. Yes they pay their sub, but you are just as guilty if you are sitting there enabling them.

[mrfigglesworth]

Oh I'm complaining because there is NOTHING that says they are suppose to keep lugz blue and camp grams. I don't know how long you have been in the moors Figs but I remember freeps REFUSING to take lugs because they didn't want it to be a grams camp. I remember fraids Disbanding if they did because they weren't going to camp grams. I remember if lugz was blue freeps NOT defending it so creeps could take it back. I remember freeps begging other freeps NOT to flip it or defend it.

I remember arguing for people to not flip lugs to blue and them doing it anyway, I remember smegg flipping everything he ever could. I remember lots, and I think your memory is through rose-colored glasses.

So you may not know one person freepside or creepside that would sit back and let these things happen, but I know a lot.

bogus. You know a single freep or creep that wouldn't, if they knew it was happening, go and defend a keep from a flip? Bogus.

So let me ask you this, if I coordinate with the vets and make this website just so creeps can get their maps .... are you going to coordinate with freep vets and make a website to help these freeps do something other than camp and sit in lugz?

why would I waste my time doing something like that? Make a website to ask freeps to stand somewhere in the moors so creeps can take keeps?

I actually flipped over and invited freeps out to play their creeps this morning and the response I got was a little more than rude.

The creeps have 3 groups of greenies atm. We have the EU/Aussie folks that play very early morning my time. The folks US/SA/Can folks that play my afternoons. Then the weekenders.

re your ps: don't group with them, don't help them, refuse to be part of it. Yes they pay their sub, but you are just as guilty if you are sitting there enabling them.

I'm pretty sick of your holier than thou attitude, sorry to say. Blame me if you want to, I don't care anymore, I tried reason. Good luck with your flame against freepside. Hope something productive comes out of this other than you /ignoring half the people there.

[Kate00]

I remember arguing for people to not flip lugs to blue and them doing it anyway, I remember smegg flipping everything he ever could. I remember lots, and I think your memory is through rose-colored glasses.


bogus. You know a single freep or creep that wouldn't, if they knew it was happening, go and defend a keep from a flip? Bogus.


why would I waste my time doing something like that? Make a website to ask freeps to stand somewhere in the moors so creeps can take keeps?




I'm pretty sick of your holier than thou attitude, sorry to say. Blame me if you want to, I don't care anymore, I tried reason. Good luck with your flame against freepside. Hope something productive comes out of this other than you /ignoring half the people there.

I know a single freep or creep? we are in the same kin and there are folks in that kin that did that and I know for a fact still feel that way. No don't waste your time, don't care about anyone but yourself, there's nothing wrong with that at all right? And if you are so sick of my holier than thou attitude please don't respond to my posts making suggestions that you have no intention of doing yourself. Last time I looked though, we all play a MMO and that means there are other people here other than yourself.

[Intharth]

To OOC: PST FOR INV

-5 mins later-

To OOC: no one? fine don't make a change.


Dravenn said i should try and group creeps up, which i have done and do still try to do, not my fault if they don't group, or when they do don't listen, ive tried and try, when it works its great, ive held a fraid in lugs with 2 minis and 2 rks healing cuz of excellent FF it was great, but the chance of getting a group that actually wants to fight at a camp is bloody nigh on impossible, sorry kate, i do agree with alot of what you say, but the folk who try just get ignored or ridiculed by idiots like Poundpuppy ''oh its pointless'' bs, so you can understand why alot of the old leaders just...gave up.

[timmyloo22546]

1. make max group size 6
4. give both sides an ability to "sense" if someone from the other side is around before they can actually see them, and give higher ranked creeps/freeps a longer range sense.
5. give all greenie creeps crude maps to start out and work for the better ones (or whatever the worst kind of map is), and let creeps pick up quests for maps somewhere besides keeps.
6. give people a reason to spread out and fight in different places(dynamic area buffs).

1. No thanks. I understand your reasoning but sometimes raids are fun and I'd rather not take options away.

4. I agree. I hate searching various locations and never finding a single creep/freep. I'm fine with not knowing exactly where an opponent is but I'd like to know whether I'm wasting my time searching. Put in consumable "zone tracker" items at GV/grams vendor that brings up the # of creeps/freeps in your current zone. Say I'm on freep and in the "Aradors End" location; I use the zone tracker and it will state "X number of creeps in Aradors End."

5. Many players with all their maps would gladly give items to new creeps for free. I carry stacks of 100 of each item on my creep and vendor the rest. If I give 30 elf ears away it won't matter to me. 70 elf ears is still more than enough.

6. That could work as long as it doesn't favor the side with the already dominant force.

Ok Askir why don't you tell me how long should it take the following creeps to learn how to play their class ...

It will take years n years if all you plan to do is simply smash buttons as you've shown us. If players actually read what their skills do and take time to absorb and comprehend the information it will take as little as 10-30 minutes to get a firm grasp on how to play a creep class. I personally find the game more enjoyable when I optimize my skill usage instead of hoping I beat the other side by getting lucky and hoping I hit the right buttons. That is why I learn my class first, then worry about ranking/leveling it up.

''oh its pointless''

This isn't directed at Poundpuppy. But back in the day I use to hear on a daily basis "oh it's pointless" from creeps when I gave them #### about not doing a single 1vs1 against minstrels or healing RKs. They'd say "minstrels and healing RKs is OP, it's pointless to try." Then I go on my R6 warg who I hadn't played in months and solo'd 5 different minstrels and 2 healing traited RKs over the course of 2 days. Obviously they weren't the best players, but they are the same players who all these R10+ wargs were saying are impossible to solo.

[eagleeye64]

This isn't directed at Poundpuppy. But back in the day I use to hear on a daily basis "oh it's pointless" from creeps when I gave them #### about not doing a single 1vs1 against minstrels or healing RKs. They'd say "minstrels and healing RKs is OP, it's pointless to try." Then I go on my R6 warg who I hadn't played in months and solo'd 5 different minstrels and 2 healing traited RKs over the course of 2 days. Obviously they weren't the best players, but they are the same players who all these R10+ wargs were saying are impossible to solo.

This one time these two highly ranked wargs in RoI once told me "Oh you couldn't solo Aarodir on a rank 12 Warg(one of them was r12) and I said oh yah? When I transferred my Warg back, Rank 11 as well back then, it took me a few tries but I was actually able to beat Aarodir in 1v1, quite a few times in RoI actually.

Needless to say those Wargs admitted their loss by peeing on my corspe every time I died. =p

[timmyloo22546]

In the old days I had more KILLS than actual RENOWN on my guardian.



Here is a SS of where creeps played to conquer and had an incredibly fun mentality back in the day (diff server..but Vilya had the same mentality at one point too). They literally tried to take TA 2 previous times and this is their 3rd attempt (which they succeeded).



And as far as exploiting...no one had an issue when I use to exploit LY all the time for my own amusement. Was lovely getting 3 tyrants to appear

.


And this is what a grams camp looks like: