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  1. #1

    Mounted Captain Nerf: Not balanced

    I read the release notes and I see they nerfed mounted cappie combat skills. While I admit that the dps was too high, that helped balance the fact that we don't have a self-heal skill in mounted combat but just a very short time bubble that's percentage based. When fighting on foot, my cappie has both Rallying Cry and Valiant Strike that I can use to heal myself during combat. Where's the mounted one?

    I would have been ok if they'd nerfed the dps but added a specific self-heal skill. The release notes make no mention of that.

  2. #2
    Muster Courage also provides a self-heal while on foot, if traited.

    My guess is since cappy is a heavy armour class, they felt the class didn't need a mounted self heal. I'll have to wait til I get in game to see how this change looks.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hikerdude2010 View Post
    Muster Courage also provides a self-heal while on foot, if traited.

    My guess is since cappy is a heavy armour class, they felt the class didn't need a mounted self heal. I'll have to wait til I get in game to see how this change looks.
    Um..... if I'm on my light steed, I switch to Rohirrim stance, spam a few skills, and I can heal myself fairly well.

    This is because my build for Light Steed DPS takes a fairly hearty chunk out of the Blue tree to get additional emergency power and healing skills.
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  4. #4
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    I went to try out my cappy again today - its still by far my favourite class mounted (I prefer playing riddermark medium for the AoE). While I can't 1 shot things as regularly as before, its still more powerful in mounted combat than my other classes were pre-update (not tried them since), in terms of a mix of survivability/dps.
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  5. #5
    I managed to get in for a couple hours today, I don't feel nerfed at all. If anything I'd say it adds balance. I usually ride capped red/blue light steed; with the changes to the yellow line I had to sacrifice some endurance and a bit of strength but was able to keep the DPS roaring and healing up. My only complaint is now there's too many cool things to spend points on and I can't wait for new level cap. On the bright side, it offers more specialization so we're not all cookie-cutter captains. I'm still a guerrilla, but it remains to be seen how I'll have to adapt the build for the new boss. Command might open up some interesting tactics but a glass cannon isn't really suitable for soloing elite war bands. I might learn to regret ditching Feign Injury. XD
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  6. #6
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    As Almagnus says, if you need self-heals while mounted, just switch to Rohirrim (blue) discipline.

    But you shouldn't need self-heals while mounted, even with this minor drop in our burst damage.
    Cainwen Ciaphas, Captain of Crickhollow, HERO OF MIDDLE EARTH!!!
    I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered! My opinions are my own!

  7. #7
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    I'm sticking with the build I had on BR (which worked amazingly well):

    Light Steed Trait Priorities
    1) Max all of the Yellow and Red traits.
    2) The bare minimum points in the blue line to take Invigorate, Bolstering Cry, and Motivation through Agression. Then max Quickness (for skill cooldown).
    3) Agility
    4) Strength

    Class traits
    4 Red (for the +5% melee crit chance - everything else is irrelevant).

    Gear
    Tactical mastery and crit focused, as much of both as you can get.
    2H LI will give you better DPS for the melee skills because of higher base damage.
    War Banner will also give you better melee damage (free +5% melee with a lot of physical mastery - also your morale and power are irrelevant because you're dead if you ever get dismounted)

    **BE SURE TO GIVE YOURSELF CRIT BUFF AND MOTIVATION**

    Bridle Legacies
    +Class Skill Damage Over Time (Light Steed)
    +Class Skill Dismount Chance (Light Steed)
    +Disengaging Strikes' Dismount Chance (Light Steed)
    +'Wrath' Critical Chance (Light Steed)
    +Red Dawn Skill Direct Damage
    +Riddermark Skill Direct Damage
    +War-steed Agility [Note: Drop if not using a Crystal of Remembrance]

    Bridle Relics
    Eastemnet Setting of Savvy
    Eastemnet Gem of Acumen
    Insignia of Wrath (in rune slot)
    Emblem of Agility

    Tactics
    While circle kiting, use Riddermark to dismount and thin crowds, then switch to Red Dawn to deliver the DPS and finish stuff off. Stance dance into Rohirrim to heal as needed. Depending on what you're fighting, you may be able to stay in Red Dawn if you can kill stuff fast enough to use the AoE Cry of Vengeance.
    ============
    With good gear, you will become a walking force of destruction that almost nothing on the landscape can stand up to.

    Edit:
    Forgot about the war banner >.<
    Last edited by Almagnus1; May 16 2013 at 01:35 AM.
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  8. #8
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    The mounted melee damage + ICPR stat is called "Strength". I believe that's what you were thinking of.
    Cainwen Ciaphas, Captain of Crickhollow, HERO OF MIDDLE EARTH!!!
    I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered! My opinions are my own!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by furtim View Post
    The mounted melee damage + ICPR stat is called "Strength". I believe that's what you were thinking of.
    Yep, cleaned up the prior post =)
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  10. #10
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    about self heals. i just melee the mob and make it go away from me, rinse and repeat. that was how i soloed Vaz- my first real challenge in mounted combat in a long time. Blue line has 2 emergency heals- one for morale, one for power, and i used both. again, problem is that warsteed may have zero critical defense.
    i used to run with a medium steed because of 10s Dash and the yellow capstone. suddenly my medium steed became &&&& with 20s Dash and 14.5 base speed. so i switched to light steed even without a bridle and used the yellow line for AoE Crys and dismount. Thankfullly my medium bridle still reset my crys when i melee the mobs.

    The so called nerf take one-shot kills from me, but gave me much, much more AoEs- my AoEs have shorter cooldowns and i have another on defeat AoE to use. With the nerf i feel that i lost single target damage and gained AoE damage.There is a learning curve yet, since i played hitting dash button every 10s in medium steed and now dash is a toggle in light steed.

    I no longer switch between yellow and red lines when a warband is reduced to the mnain mob. i just move the boss near more landscape mobs so my AoEs can trigger the on-defeat new cry and speed up things. With a Light bridle as suggested above things should go pretty smooth for us Captains.

  11. #11
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    Also, re: this "nerf"... We got a new skill that buffs our outgoing damage by 5% for every ~18s out of 30, plus a bunch of passive buffs in the Yellow line, like... another +5% outgoing damage and +10% Cry Crit Chance.

    Yeah, it's hardly a nerf, actually.

    And, like Nascephor mentioned, we gained a new AoE skill as well.
    Cainwen Ciaphas, Captain of Crickhollow, HERO OF MIDDLE EARTH!!!
    I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered! My opinions are my own!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by furtim View Post
    Also, re: this "nerf"... We got a new skill that buffs our outgoing damage by 5% for every ~18s out of 30, plus a bunch of passive buffs in the Yellow line, like... another +5% outgoing damage and +10% Cry Crit Chance.

    Yeah, it's hardly a nerf, actually.

    And, like Nascephor mentioned, we gained a new AoE skill as well.
    I rode around blowing stuff up last night, didn't feel like a big nerf to me... And I like that we have a defeat gated skill, it adds some "captain" flavor to the mounted combat.

  13. #13
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    Yeah, MC2.0 feels really good so far, actually. Can't wait to get into Wildermore and try some of the new warbands.
    Cainwen Ciaphas, Captain of Crickhollow, HERO OF MIDDLE EARTH!!!
    I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered! My opinions are my own!

  14. #14
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    I admit I haven't experimented much yet with Captain MC after the change but my complaint is not about DPS but about our specialization as the games supposedly buffing class. The only 'buffs' I have found are either short duration 15-30 second or toggle (i.e. constantly drain power) skills. Where are our fellowship buffs like we have when we are on foot?

    The minstrel class has a 20 minute MC buff. Where are the Captain buffs? Am I missing something in my MC build? Are other Captains content with 15-30 skill buffs and toggles and don't care about long term buffs such as Captains provide when on foot? I was looking forward to this version of MC due to the stated changes to make classes more specialized during MC but I don't see much to make me feel like a buffing class, just a another type of heavy melee class.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunford View Post
    I admit I haven't experimented much yet with Captain MC after the change but my complaint is not about DPS but about our specialization as the games supposedly buffing class. The only 'buffs' I have found are either short duration 15-30 second or toggle (i.e. constantly drain power) skills. Where are our fellowship buffs like we have when we are on foot?

    The minstrel class has a 20 minute MC buff. Where are the Captain buffs? Am I missing something in my MC build? Are other Captains content with 15-30 skill buffs and toggles and don't care about long term buffs such as Captains provide when on foot? I was looking forward to this version of MC due to the stated changes to make classes more specialized during MC but I don't see much to make me feel like a buffing class, just a another type of heavy melee class.
    The three Tactics and Motivating Speech still affect you while you are on the warsteed.

    So buff up dismounted THEN mount up.
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Almagnus1 View Post
    The three Tactics and Motivating Speech still affect you while you are on the warsteed.

    So buff up dismounted THEN mount up.
    Super! I always buff up as soon as I log on but in the past I was under the impression that when you mounted your war steed the Captain's regular buffs were no longer active. If that is not the case then I am a happy camper. Thanks for your reply!

  17. #17
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    Toggle skills (IDOME, stances, ...) deactivate when mounted. Buffs (food, Tactics, Motivate, ...) don't.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunford View Post
    Super! I always buff up as soon as I log on but in the past I was under the impression that when you mounted your war steed the Captain's regular buffs were no longer active. If that is not the case then I am a happy camper. Thanks for your reply!
    I suspect crit buff is one of the things that give us such a huge perceived damage advantage over the other classes.

    If we ever get MC group content (and I hope we do), then others will see their numbers with crit buff, and hopefully the perceptions will even out a bit.
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  19. #19
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    I dont know what exactly Turbine did, but I had a number of cappies tell me they're actually doing MORE damage now than they were before. Its entirely possible that whatever one skill they nerfed, was overshadowed by the rest of the class line changes. You guys still rock!
    Crell-L85-Champion - Riddermark ; Swego-L85-Burglar ; Kotvi-L95-Runekeeper
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Almagnus1 View Post
    Gear
    Also, a 2H LI will give you better DPS for the melee skills because of higher base damage.
    Bridle Legacies
    +Class Skill Damage Over Time (Light Steed)
    +Class Skill Dismount Chance (Light Steed)
    +Disengaging Strikes' Dismount Chance (Light Steed)
    +'Wrath' Critical Chance (Light Steed)
    +Red Dawn Skill Direct Damage
    +Riddermark Skill Direct Damage
    +War-steed Agility [Note: Drop if not using a Crystal of Remembrance]

    Bridle Relics
    Insignia of Wrath (in rune slot)
    Emblem of Agility
    Your build is as glass cannon as one can build a warhorse. I tried it and faced many insta-defeats from harder warbands. At 2k morale and no armour this Light warhorse build is doomed to fail consistently, since as a Captain you are bound to get all aggro since you are most likely main DPS and at least off-healer in a group facing a warband. And soloing with it becomes a lottery of dismount the harder foes on the first 2 cry attempts or running away/wiping.

    A 2h?? Considering that Captains have shields with Might and tactical mastery and high block ratings, i think unwise to face harder warbands without a shield.

    I would pick from your legacies list:
    +Class Skill Dismount Chance (Light Steed) \
    +Disengaging Strikes' Dismount Chance (Light Steed)/ More dismounts FTW.

    +Riddermark Skill Direct Damage\
    +War-steed Agility / More damage while dismounting foes + faster turning rates/acceleration FTW.

    And then i would proceed to turning our Light steed in something harder to defeat:
    +Rider Evade Chance in place of + DoT
    +War-steed Armour in place of+Red Dawn Skill Direct Damage ( choose one from crystal)
    +War-steed Maximum Endurance in place of +'Wrath' Critical Chance

    1.+10% on DoTs wont change a harder fight result, but +5% evade may avoid some wipes.
    2.Against a harder mob you wont use Red dawn until it is dismounted, but if a Warband Boss is dismounted, the fight is pretty much over anyway. Having more armour may keep you riding long enough to dismount the foe in the first place.
    3-+1k morale over a 2k morale warhorse is just the ticket for longer fights and more chances to dismount the mobs.

    Finally on the relics:
    Insignia of Free Speech in place of Insignia of Wrath- 25% chance to reset crys every 3s >>>>+5% crit on crys
    Emblem of the Rider in place of Emblem of Agility- +50 Agility on top of a 1k agility build won't help as much as a -25% attack duration.

  21. #21
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    Oh, and fun fact for the evening.... all that proc gear works with mounted combat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nascephor View Post
    Your build is as glass cannon as one can build a warhorse. I tried it and faced many insta-defeats from harder warbands. At 2k morale and no armour this Light warhorse build is doomed to fail consistently, since as a Captain you are bound to get all aggro since you are most likely main DPS and at least off-healer in a group facing a warband. And soloing with it becomes a lottery of dismount the harder foes on the first 2 cry attempts or running away/wiping.
    Um, my experience taking on every single warband solo with this build before has shown it to work quite well. I'm talking about EVERYTHING, including Dal, Urgai, Bugud. All of them. SOLO.

    While I haven't exhaustively run through the new area, the only boss that's has given me problems (atm) is Voz - mostly cause I can't get him dismounted.

    And yes, I play my warsteed AS a DPSer, so being a glass cannon is OK, especially when I have the high parry from a high might score, heavy armor, virtues heavily biased towards tactical mitigation, the might/crit D/tactical mitigation Wyrmfire necklace, 2 Perseverance (chest and pants), and the emblem tactical mitigation title. I certain do **NOT** feel squishy on the warsteed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nascephor View Post
    A 2h?? Considering that Captains have shields with Might and tactical mastery and high block ratings, i think unwise to face harder warbands without a shield.
    More DPS means stuff dies faster, it also helps with the bleed damage. Also, I'm a DPSer on my light steed, so I want as high of a tactical mastery rating as possible (cries are tactical skills), with the 2H weapon for maximizing my bleed DPS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nascephor View Post
    I would pick from your legacies list:
    +Class Skill Dismount Chance (Light Steed) \
    +Disengaging Strikes' Dismount Chance (Light Steed)/ More dismounts FTW.

    +Riddermark Skill Direct Damage\
    +War-steed Agility / More damage while dismounting foes + faster turning rates/acceleration FTW.

    And then i would proceed to turning our Light steed in something harder to defeat:
    +Rider Evade Chance in place of + DoT
    +War-steed Armour in place of+Red Dawn Skill Direct Damage ( choose one from crystal)
    +War-steed Maximum Endurance in place of +'Wrath' Critical Chance

    1.+10% on DoTs wont change a harder fight result, but +5% evade may avoid some wipes.
    2.Against a harder mob you wont use Red dawn until it is dismounted, but if a Warband Boss is dismounted, the fight is pretty much over anyway. Having more armour may keep you riding long enough to dismount the foe in the first place.
    3-+1k morale over a 2k morale warhorse is just the ticket for longer fights and more chances to dismount the mobs.
    I've got the morale panic button from the Rohirrim line IN ADDITION to the morale button from the Breeland Warsteed quests. That's enough emergency morale that I do not need to use that legacy. Also, that's what Rohirrim is for, and if you've made as deep of an investment as what I suggested doing, it's going to help heal you fairly well.

    I also take on warbands at max speed, and most of them are on foot and melee, so the armor is frivolous once you get them dismounted (which is usually fairly fast).

    I also do not sit in Riddermark the entire fight, but generally prefer to stay in Red Dawn, because Red Dawn has significantly higher single target DPS than Riddermark does. While, Riddermark is useful for the dismount (and AEing tougher warbands), with Cry of Vengeance AE in Red Dawn, if the warband has enough squishy targets I can pick off fast enough, I can do just as much AE DPS in Red Dawn as I can in Riddermark.

    Also the +DoT legacy and the +Cry Wrath Crit go hand in hand, since the red trait line "capstone" gives your skills in Red Dawn a chance to put a DoT on the target on a crit, which is even more DPS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nascephor View Post
    Finally on the relics:
    Insignia of Free Speech in place of Insignia of Wrath- 25% chance to reset crys every 3s >>>>+5% crit on crys
    Emblem of the Rider in place of Emblem of Agility-
    +50 Agility on top of a 1k agility build won't help as much as a -25% attack duration.
    Insignia of the free speech isn't worth it at all - all your skills will (most likely) be off cooldown before you have used Oppresive Blow enough times to get the proc. Yes, it will happen occaionsally, but over a long enough period of time, it's not worth it, so I'd rather go with the higher DPS relic - especially since Cry Wrath is one of your two hardest hitting skills for a light steed. The other downside is you have to be close enough to the target to use Oppressive Blow, unlike Cry Wrath which has a very long range, and I'm more likely to use the other bleed (forget it's name) because it gives a tactical DPS debuff to the target.

    As far as Emblem of the Rider goes, I'll have another look at it, that might be worth slotting into the live build. However, more agility gives me better turn radius, and if I'm at max speed the entire fight, I need as much turning as possible, so it's not a complete waste IMO.
    Last edited by Almagnus1; May 15 2013 at 12:25 AM.
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  22. #22
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    Interesting thing about Voz: I had basically zero problem soloing him on my Heavy steed. I think it's because he and his adds do ranged DPS, but I was able to stay in melee range of them and "shut off" their ranged autoattacks. (EDIT: Only his adds do ranged DPS. Voz himself is melee.)

    Of course, a pair of other folks showed up and ruined my fun by helping me kill him, so I can't say that I actually did solo him. But I have no doubt I could have, with appropriate amounts of stance-dancing to heal up as needed.

    I also two-shotted Karkas, which was funny.
    Last edited by furtim; May 15 2013 at 12:21 PM.
    Cainwen Ciaphas, Captain of Crickhollow, HERO OF MIDDLE EARTH!!!
    I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered! My opinions are my own!

  23. #23
    Soloed Voz on hunter in blue stance by using Break Free and kiting a lot; suspect cappy in yellow on light (my default setup) will be just as capable even if slightly nerfed. I have invested in my horse's endurance though.

    I also found that the war banner made my cappy even more of a beast...
    105s: Aedfrith (HN), Aldnoth (CP), Brai (RK), Hrolfdan (MN), Aeldfryd (WD), Morriarty (CH), Aednoth (LM), Mishhar (BR), Hraldan (GR), Rummbold (BG). Tinies - Rumbelina (MN), Aenghus (CP)
    Rangers of Eriador (officer), ex-Snowbourn now Laurelin - A Noob for All Seasons

  24. #24
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    By harder Warbands i meant Conog and Shanuk, not Vaz, Zovarr, Rottenheart or Bugud.

    Soloing these warbands is the actual challenge now. The rest is faceroll.
    5+ Elite/Elite Master mounted adds + 1 Nemesis boss is what i define as a harder to solo warband.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nascephor View Post
    Soloing these warbands is the actual challenge now. The rest is faceroll.
    5+ Elite/Elite Master mounted adds + 1 Nemesis boss is what i define as a harder to solo warband.
    So now that we have a target, where are these guys?
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

 

 
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