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  1. #1

    Thumbs up LM Dev Diary is out!

    Dev diary is here:
    http://www.lotro.com/en/game/article...E2%80%99s-deep

    I'm pretty excited about DPS line!
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/042080000001bbc76/signature.png]Warcries[/charsig]/signature.png]Warcries[/charsig]

  2. #2
    I'm very excited for MoNF and AM, but still have serious doubts about KoA. I love having a fully buffed pet - it's amusing to send them off to fight mobs while soloing - but I'm very wary of a tree which focuses upon buffing a pet which might die in combat.
    [IMG]http://i61.tinypic.com/28mns0o.jpg[/IMG]

  3. #3
    This looks genuinely interesting. I might have a play with KoA for the lolz of the dogpile skill, but I see myself being a mix between MONF and AM primarily (much like my current 5r/2b solo or rainbow raid setup).
    105s: Aedfrith (HN), Aldnoth (CP), Brai (RK), Hrolfdan (MN), Aeldfryd (WD), Morriarty (CH), Aednoth (LM), Mishhar (BR), Hraldan (GR), Rummbold (BG). Tinies - Rumbelina (MN), Aenghus (CP)
    Rangers of Eriador (officer), ex-Snowbourn now Laurelin - A Noob for All Seasons

  4. #4
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    I go 5r/2b usually as well, or put some yellow in for raid debuffs, but I don't think mixing lines will be really possible with the trait trees if you want any real effectiveness.

  5. #5
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    Too much spotlight for big booms.
    I expect even more "lolmasters" who treat LM as a damage-dealer and don`t even know what CC is.
    Don't join dangerous cults: Practice safe sects!

  6. #6
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    DPS LMs have been "arsonmasters" since the days of Moria. Sadly, CC went pretty much out the window soon after the next expansion.

    Which, reading the dev diary, they wont play as much with fire. Almost looks like BE does not stack 3 deep unless traited 3 deep in BE. Also no point in casting ISG, which apparently is no longer the legendary DPS trait.

    Sigh.. these dev diarys are WAY light on details. Almost to the point of uselessness. They read more like what will go on the home page to describe the class for people who want to see if they want to play the game.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Olfaran View Post
    Too much spotlight for big booms.
    I expect even more "lolmasters" who treat LM as a damage-dealer and don`t even know what CC is.
    I agree, and agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darlgon View Post
    DPS LMs have been "arsonmasters" since the days of Moria. Sadly, CC went pretty much out the window soon after the next expansion.
    ...What? Your ignorance is showing. The next expansion was MoM (DG/ITA clusters).
    Kindly inform yourself of the on-level trash pull strategies used to tackle the wings of Ost Dunhoth at 65 and the Tower of Orthanc at 75. (And how useful 8 target stuns and 10 target mezzes can be in Flight T2/C, or locking down 2-4 of the 8 adds in T2+ BFE).

    CC is here, and honestly over the past few years it has become EXCEPTIONALLY more powerful. All mob-types (rather than a particular type) can be Dazed by Riddle or Blinding flash.

    Bane Flare changes, Confound and Riddle changes... honestly you must be actively trying to ignore how powerful CC is in this game to be able to say it has gone out the window... after Moria, of all expansions! What were you CCing in Moria?

    I'll assume nothing, and that you were traited at least five red, have been ever since, and are very excited to play a re-vamped MoNF LM to the exclusion of either of the other lines.

    LOL(master)!
    [COLOR="#40E0D0"]Turbine does not give out rewards based on the profit factor; because rewards must be earned by completing content.[/COLOR]

  8. #8
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    Nice to see they're giving some attention to frost spells. I was always a little sad to see Gust of Wind sitting all by itself. This may make sabertooths a tiny bit more useful.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ithrien;6937534
    ...What? Your ignorance is showing. The next expansion was MoM (DG/ITA clusters).
    Kindly inform yourself of the on-level trash pull strategies used to tackle the wings of Ost Dunhoth at 65 and the Tower of Orthanc at 75. (And how useful 8 target stuns and 10 target mezzes can be in Flight T2/C, or locking down 2-4 of the 8 adds in T2+ BFE).

    CC is here, and honestly over the past few years it has become EXCEPTIONALLY more powerful. All mob-types (rather than a particular type) can be Dazed by Riddle or Blinding flash.

    Bane Flare changes, Confound and Riddle changes... honestly you must be actively [I
    trying[/I] to ignore how powerful CC is in this game to be able to say it has gone out the window... after Moria, of all expansions! What were you CCing in Moria?

    I'll assume nothing, and that you were traited at least five red, have been ever since, and are very excited to play a re-vamped MoNF LM to the exclusion of either of the other lines.

    LOL(master)!
    Sigh.. need I remind you that this is a loremaster thread and not burglar, so Confound and Riddle have no place here.

    When my LM hit 65, Lothlorien was as far as you could go. At that time, a growing group of LMs only traited Redline from creation, and were only known for DPS. AM was for sissies and no one traited KOA. They did not even do the deeds for the traits. I was one of the few who recommended Blue/AM to people leveling up and was shouted down a lot. It was during that time the we started calling Redline, will never trait Yellow or Blue, loremasters "arsonmasters". All people wanted the six-man group to be- guard, mini/rk, and 4 DPS. If you were CC, you were dropped from group.

    The attitude was highlighted in this thread:

    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...ht=arsonmaster

    Apparently, the older threads referring to the term were pruned at some time. By the time ROI came out, I gave in and did landscape traited Red, just like everyone else.

    Funny you only mention of two examples of raids, not general PVE or skirms, where CC was useful. After 2 months, any PUG raids I went on for even those instances used no CC, they just bulldozed through. If you mezzed something and said someone broke the mez, it was.. "OH WELL, SUCK IT UP. Let the Burglar remez it and go back to making things burn." CC may be more powerful, but more people are ignoring it and dont care if they break mezes so the can Shing-Shing.

    With the dearth of posts in the forum threads I monitor, I have to believe a lot, if not most, of the player database who posted in the forums have moved on to other games. I actually dread all the class revamps that are due.

  10. #10
    Our class is supposed to be inspired by Elrond but our skills are coming from the 2 wizards. Tis something that has been argued 1000 times, but still the facts are there.


    In most battles u would see Gandalf leading the charge, and be one of the(if not the) heaviest and most trustworthy DPSer. The whole army of orcs was afraid of him until the witch king appeared. Even though we are not in his league there is no reason for a LM to not be able to deal some heavy dmg if traited, both lore wise(elrond was quite a soldier himself) or game-play wise.

    Radagast is a Friend of Animals. Theres nothing more to be said about our blue line even though its very weak


    All that being said, our CC(stuns, roots, dazes, debuffs) line SHOULD be a fearsome line, and the one that LM should shine at cozing havoc among the enemy's ranks. In movies when Gandalf used Fire lore against Aragorn, he dropped his sword. His LotRD was a strong CC skill enough to fend off the Nazgul.


    So theres no reason calling names on players who rather do this or that on their LMs, or reduce the importance of a trait line. And that applies to Turbine as well. It seems they are doing their best, but nothing is ever perfect.

    So since they are revamping skills/traits, this is the best time to take some things into consideration. A person rolled a LM most probably for the class' versatility and similar aspects. DPS/WL gives us a role in every 3/6/12 man and i am glad for the way they treated the aspect in RoR. Also we need our CC, and we need even more powerful CC when we trait yellow.

    Please dont dumb down the class to be able to do ONLY this or that at any given time. We need LM to remain a spescial fun class to play with. At least I do.

  11. #11
    Sadly, exactly what I expected from reading other Classes Dev Diaries. Interesting, but far too vague to judge them in any way.

    KOA is the one most broken right now, with the mix of pet and healing traits. Making it a pure pet line, is good for the themes of the class, but lives or dies on how they've balanced the pets themselves.

    The MONF line looks interesting because it looks to be trying to make the line less only about fire. Again, the devil is in the details. A lot of the stuff is sold on Lightning storm, which unless they've seriously dropped the cooldown, is....uninspiring.

    Some of the mechanisms in the Ancient Master sound interesting, especially the 2-stage debuffs, yet again it is the implementation. As others have mentioned, the key is going to be make the advantages big enough to stop people cutting through the subtlety, traiting red and just blowing stuff up. A last thought is that it is worrying that healing has been shifted here and no mention after that.


    Now have more questions than before I read the diary. Perhaps teasing things was the plan, but right now I feel more frustrated than excited.

  12. #12
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    I'm extremely frustrated with the way the class is atm, and I'm hoping based on what I've read that its going to get better. We are a support class, not a dps class, not a healing class. In no way should we be able to do all these things at once and I'm HOPING that this trait tree will fix that. The blue line does look interesting, and I'm curious to see what happens to our yellow line. One thing I do hope they trash is WL. We never needed it imo and its way too op the way it is.
    "You can't have your Kate and Eat her too!"

    Katelia Rk 11 Lm, Peppermintt Rk 12 Warg, Katetastrophe Rk 12 WL, Kateaclysm Rk 12 defiler

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kate00 View Post
    One thing I do hope they trash is WL.
    Then it will be the old "no 3-mans for LMs" once again.
    Don't join dangerous cults: Practice safe sects!

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Kate00 View Post
    One thing I do hope they trash is WL. We never needed it imo and its way too op the way it is.
    WL is a strong skill indeed, but its not OP. OP would be if it gave the LM an unfair advantage over other classes, and over creeps. But since other classes have their own strong skills, since creeps have their pots and their badges, LM was put in a tight spot. WL gave us a place in any instance and came to balance the gap that was being created with other freep/creep classes.

    RK can pull out insane DPS while on the move and still have a nice amount of HoTs on him without the need to ever stop his footwork. Mini has a fair DPS with insane heals. A champ can pull out everything a LM can. At least thats what i figure out from others since i dont have one. A cappy is strong as he is either way. nice defenses medium self heals, and fair DPS. Guard is taking so low dmg that mobs could as well not be attacking him at all. a burglar has strong CC, great evade rating his heals and he can disappear. warden is immortal. Hunter is the only class which imo is hard to solo stuff with. PvE or PvP.

    WL needs u to stop moving, which means the mobs will catch up to you and hit u like a train. It has induction which means it can be interrupted. And its LM's ONLY certain self heal which does not have a long CD.

    If u don't want to use the skill is one thing, but why you would want it trashed is something i can not understand.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olfaran View Post
    Then it will be the old "no 3-mans for LMs" once again.
    No I used to solo heal 3 mans without waterlore.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pithrandir View Post
    WL is a strong skill indeed, but its not OP. OP would be if it gave the LM an unfair advantage over other classes, and over creeps. But since other classes have their own strong skills, since creeps have their pots and their badges, LM was put in a tight spot. WL gave us a place in any instance and came to balance the gap that was being created with other freep/creep classes.

    RK can pull out insane DPS while on the move and still have a nice amount of HoTs on him without the need to ever stop his footwork. Mini has a fair DPS with insane heals. A champ can pull out everything a LM can. At least thats what i figure out from others since i dont have one. A cappy is strong as he is either way. nice defenses medium self heals, and fair DPS. Guard is taking so low dmg that mobs could as well not be attacking him at all. a burglar has strong CC, great evade rating his heals and he can disappear. warden is immortal. Hunter is the only class which imo is hard to solo stuff with. PvE or PvP.

    WL needs u to stop moving, which means the mobs will catch up to you and hit u like a train. It has induction which means it can be interrupted. And its LM's ONLY certain self heal which does not have a long CD.

    If u don't want to use the skill is one thing, but why you would want it trashed is something i can not understand.

    LM's have always had a place in any instance. Like I said, I used to solo heal 3 mans before we got the skill. It can be done. Lm is a support class not a healing class and we already had 3 self heals. Flank heals, Wisdom and inner flame.

    Yes I understand your point in wl its interuptable and needs you to stop moving but you shouldn't have mobs on you to begin with so I can't see that point very relevant. We also have 2 ways to keep our skills from being interrupted.

    As far as the moors goes, I did fine without it for 3 1/2 years or more, its a crutch that we don't need and thats why I want it gone. Or at least make it like beacon of hope where its only for others with a longer cd.
    "You can't have your Kate and Eat her too!"

    Katelia Rk 11 Lm, Peppermintt Rk 12 Warg, Katetastrophe Rk 12 WL, Kateaclysm Rk 12 defiler

  16. #16
    I originally wanted to play LM due to the CC and Debuff role. Right now I play red, while wishing yellow was as effective or desirable. The Debuff role should be equally desired by a group as the captain buff is currently, it just isn't as shiny. People would rather see 10% more morale than 10% decrease in all mob dps even though the net effect is the same. I hope the AM skill tree will push that balance to a point where a debuffer is wanted and could be considered ... instead of a captain, I know sacrilege right?.

    I'm saddened that there is no discussion of CC in the diary other than traited longer stuns, which will potentially make the line worthwhile in and of itself. For a while one of my favorite play styles centered around cracked earth and basically never letting mobs touch me. It was fun, but when you realize that you can just mow stuff down faster in MoNF it is awful compelling to just go arson master route. Wonder what the AM legendary skill will be.? My ideal new skill would be a fear, well knock back would be even better, but that isn't likely to ever happen.

    Anyway, I will try AM focus build and hope it is more viable than currently.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0320200000014f7b7/01005/signature.png]Spazzmo[/charsig]

  17. #17
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    @ Kate00

    How silly is the wish to get rid of such a great spell?

    Sorry, you have no point besides "LM is no healer" and "we don't need it".

    Can't understand guys like you. They gave us such a great HoT, why the hell we should not use it?

  18. #18
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    Sorry, I have to agree with Kate. Before Water Lore came along, surviving and healing as an LM took some semblance of skill. Now, you can just hit WL every time it comes off cooldown and nothing, and I mean NOTHING will be able to scratch you(or whatever target you have selected).

    I would not advocate its complete removal, but it needs to be either nerfed or some of its potency moved to a section of a trait tree. When it first arrived I was happy to have a good heal skill to call upon, especially for group content, but as a general skill it's simply too much, too easy.


    Not even gonna go into WL in PvP. Suffice to say that it has not been balanced for it in any way, shape or form. Just like the rest of Freepside.
    [LEFT][COLOR=#ffffff]Morlenil Barkolomew Turmuz Shurz Gruubluk

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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kate00 View Post
    No I used to solo heal 3 mans without waterlore.
    Let me guess... A warden was tanking?


    LM's have always had a place in any instance. Like I said, I used to solo heal 3 mans before we got the skill. It can be done. Lm is a support class not a healing class and we already had 3 self heals. Flank heals, Wisdom and inner flame.
    In 3-mans there is a place for DD, tank and heal. No place for support.
    "LM? Lol no, we nead a real healer" (c) typical PUG.
    Don't join dangerous cults: Practice safe sects!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olfaran View Post
    Let me guess... A warden was tanking?


    In 3-mans there is a place for DD, tank and heal. No place for support.
    "LM? Lol no, we nead a real healer" (c) typical PUG.

    No warden. I've done it with a guard tanking, a cappy tanking and a burg tanking once.

    Quote Originally Posted by Renjy View Post
    @ Kate00

    How silly is the wish to get rid of such a great spell?

    Sorry, you have no point besides "LM is no healer" and "we don't need it".

    Can't understand guys like you. They gave us such a great HoT, why the hell we should not use it?
    its not silly to want a skill gone. Its not great, its a crutch.

    I don't have to have another point. If you played a lm before WL then you know we didn't need it. Like i said, if it had a longer cd and was only useable on other players, I'd be all for it.

    If you want to play a class with great hots, LM is not the class for you.


    .
    Last edited by Kate00; Oct 06 2013 at 07:27 PM.
    "You can't have your Kate and Eat her too!"

    Katelia Rk 11 Lm, Peppermintt Rk 12 Warg, Katetastrophe Rk 12 WL, Kateaclysm Rk 12 defiler

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyrion View Post
    Sorry, I have to agree with Kate. Before Water Lore came along, surviving and healing as an LM took some semblance of skill. Now, you can just hit WL every time it comes off cooldown and nothing, and I mean NOTHING will be able to scratch you(or whatever target you have selected).

    I would not advocate its complete removal, but it needs to be either nerfed or some of its potency moved to a section of a trait tree. When it first arrived I was happy to have a good heal skill to call upon, especially for group content, but as a general skill it's simply too much, too easy.


    Not even gonna go into WL in PvP. Suffice to say that it has not been balanced for it in any way, shape or form. Just like the rest of Freepside.
    That may be true, but I hope it would mean that control skills are actually powerful again. They're all there, but anything that needs CC is basically immune and if it doesn't then you just nuke it. Having a viable healing role seems like a poor gimme for crushing the power out of CC. We mostly have the ###### pvp to thank for that. They should really just close down the Moors and make interesting and unbalanced classes again like they were during Shadows.

    What can they really do to make the LM as interesting and engaging as it once was? Combat has changed so much and in such a way as to really gut the aspects of the class that once made it so attractive.

    We'll see though, but I've got doubts.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kate00 View Post
    its not silly to want a skill gone. Its not great, its a crutch.

    I don't have to have another point. If you played a lm before WL then you know we didn't need it. Like i said, if it had a longer cd and was only useable on other players, I'd be all for it.

    If you want to play a class with great hots, LM is not the class for you.

    It is silly - at least for me.

    Your points are anything but valid. Didn't need and "we got it" is something different. It is just a (great) addition.

    If the skill would be bad - okay. But the skill is great. Maybe they should adjust it A BIT. But completely remove? No.

    I don't want to insult you nor do I want to be offensive. It is just my opinion. Try to adjust instead of remove.
    Last edited by Renjy; Oct 10 2013 at 06:24 AM.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Renjy View Post
    It is silly - at least for me.
    I don't want to insult you nor do I want to be offensive. It is just my opinion.
    I believe you don't want to insult but i think this is pretty much insulting. If possible refrain from characterizing other people's opinions as silly cause its as good as calling them silly themselfs.

    Different LMs, different playstyles as we are not a simple class. Also everyone of us here sees the game from a different perspective. Class changes too, PvMP as well. So it's only natural that there will be contradictory opinions, and a difference in opinion does not make either party silly.

    And we have drifted from subject completely. :P

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renjy View Post
    It is silly - at least for me.

    Your points are anything but valid. Didn't need and "we got it" is something different. It is just a (great) addition.

    If the skill would be bad - okay. But the skill is great. Maybe they should adjust it A BIT. But completely remove? No.

    I don't want to insult you nor do I want to be offensive. It is just my opinion. Try to adjust instead of remove.
    its a crutch or rather makes it easy mode completely, idk what you don't understand about that. So explain why my points aren't valid... I'll list them again for you.
    1. LM's already had 3 self heals.
    2. LM's are not a healing class
    3. the skill cd is too short and hots are too long, in other words is op.

    I said if it were adjusted I'd be ok with that, but they would have to nerf it A LOT.
    "You can't have your Kate and Eat her too!"

    Katelia Rk 11 Lm, Peppermintt Rk 12 Warg, Katetastrophe Rk 12 WL, Kateaclysm Rk 12 defiler

  25. #25
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    Water-lore is OP. I do not excel at playing any class, and that includes my LM. But he, rank 6 with 9 Audacity back then, managed to defeat a rank 13 creep. Outposts, (Ettenmoors) nemesis mobs, School/Library can be solo'd (and a bunch of other 3mans, but I, for one, could not). Someone even succeeded in being the sole healing in a BfE tier 1 run.

    Kinda obvious to see the OPness of the skill.

    I like the addition of Water-lore, but they have to nerf it.
    [COLOR="#669966"][center][size=1]Mildford - R9 Hunter • Support - R7 LM
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