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In fact they hold a rather unique roll there - Ranged-AOE-DPS.
Hunter can do very limited ranged-aoe.
Except with vary rare types of scripted encounter there really is no functional difference between CC and DPS. CC controls mobs position by holding them and not hitting them, DPS controls mobs position by hitting them and not holding them. The ONLY functional difference is can the healers keep up with the damage the DPSers are taking.
An appropriately traited and geared Hunter has almost as much CC potential as an LM; and in contrast an appropriately traited and geared LM has almost as much DPS potential as a Hunter.
I prefer DPS on my LM when I am soloing, and because most of the times I end up doing group stuff is when I am soloing and get asked to help out with a group run I have just learned to make-do using DPS as a CC mechanism in group content. As long as you trust your healers and can out damage the mobs it works - it may not be as pretty, or as tactically sound as genuine CC but it works.
The thing I am most looking forward to with LMs in HD is trying out the other "builds"; but if I end up as a DPS LM I won't be losing any sleep over it.
So far the LM Dev Diary is the only one that I consider even remotely positive.
All The Best
LMs ranged DPS sucks. To do some REAL damage, you have to get close and personal - becauseIn fact they hold a rather unique roll there - Ranged-AOE-DPS.
1)Staff sweep`s crit. bonus.
2) Strongest autoattack in the whole game.
Appropriately traited hunter can out-DPS a loremaster by spamming one CD-less AOE skill. Something like "Rain of arrows" - I`m from russian server, so not sure about the name.Hunter can do very limited ranged-aoe.
Also, fire RK.
This is wrong on SOOOO many levels...Except with vary rare types of scripted encounter there really is no functional difference between CC and DPS. CC controls mobs position by holding them and not hitting them, DPS controls mobs position by hitting them and not holding them. The ONLY functional difference is can the healers keep up with the damage the DPSers are taking.
Really? A hunter can lock down a dangerous mob infinitely? Because LM can do this with two mobs.An appropriately traited and geared Hunter has almost as much CC potential as an LM; and in contrast an appropriately traited and geared LM has almost as much DPS potential as a Hunter.
Hunter has a rooting skill, a fear skill and a trap. LM has 2 roots, single-target mezz, multi-target mezz, AOE slow, 2 single-target stuns, AOE stun, fear and Call to Valar.
Also, if LM can reach a hunter`s level of DPS - this hunter is bad and should feel bad.
So, you think that turning an interesting TACTICAL class into just another damage-dealer with tactics only left in the name of type of damage he deals is OK?The thing I am most looking forward to with LMs in HD is trying out the other "builds"; but if I end up as a DPS LM I won't be losing any sleep over it.
Don't join dangerous cults: Practice safe sects!
Ents Go To War (15m Range, 5m CD) - I am regularly hitting 5 Targets for 6k+ Damage, + 6 Sec Stun.
Improved Sticky Gourd (25m Range, 30s CD) - I am regularly hitting 5 Targets for 5k+ Damage, + 500+ Dam, every 4s for 26s.
Cracked Earth (25m Range, 10s CD) - I can hit 5 Targets for 3k+, and with a 30s Root if the Target is still alive (it usually isn't).
Lightning Storm (25m Range, 5m CD) - I hit 5 Targets for 7K to 13k a time.
Gust Of Wind (40m Range, 10s CD) - Hits 6 Targets for 1k - 1.5k.
On my level 85 Hunter, with similar gear for Ranged AOE I have:
Rain Of Arrows (40m Range, 10s CD) - 5 Targets - 1.2k Damage.
Split Shot (40m Range, 10s CD) - 2 Targets - 1k Damage.
Rain Of Thorns (40m Range, 3m CD) - 5 Targets - 1.4k Damage - 30s Root.
Now, do you REALLY want to claim that Hunters do more sustained and higher Ranged-AOE DPS than Loremasters?
All The Best
Eh, you’re both right. LM dps can be either first tier or second tier depending on the pull’s size and funk.
Size, one or two mobs, give me a Hunt. Three, I’ll flip you for it. Four, starting to lean the other way. Five plus, color me red LM. The more plus, the more I'll take LM over any class simply because of how ISG works. Saaay... the second boss in Fornost Fire? Hard to argue any class is better suited for it than a red LM. ISG alone will get you absurd dps numbers. That's cherry-picking the best example of course, but any 3-man zerg, SG's last fight, LT, and Sammy are all places where LM dps will rank near the top.
Well, depending on your group's funk-o-meter. You keeping mobs stationary and clumped? Good. Kiting them in very, very small circles but still clumped? Suh-weet. Kiting them in large circles like Wardens do on occasion or simply moving them around a lot like in BoD? No joy. Cracked Earth’s root works against you, ISG’s DoT doesn’t do nuttin’, Staff-sweep is tough to utilize. Heaven forbid you fire a skill off at the wrong time on the wrong mob, too, because those long cooldowns magnify the cost of a miss. Which can get tricky because…
Unlike Champion or Guard AoE skills which are centered on your character, LM AoE skills are centered on whichever mob you currently have targeted, sans ISS. Sometimes that’s quite helpful, sometimes that’s horribly not especially without a well-centered mob to target.
Plus inductions. If the mobs don’t have much health… or the group leader goofed and thought you’d make a good TA… or your group includes a somewhat decent Champ, then you might see a lot of:
“The target is already dead.”
“You need a valid target.”
“The target is already dead.”
“You need a valid target.”
“You cannot do that while moving.”
“The target is already dead.”
I complain too much; it’s really not that bad. The real point, though, is LM dps is extremely dependent on a pull's mechanics and luck. Maybe more so than any other class, simply because of how our skills work and not necessarily their magnitude. I've both comfortably sat in the mid 3ks and struggled to reach the mid 1ks on the exact same pull because of group make-up, induction whiffs, and how our group was going about things. All that means is the complexities caused by the square peg, round hole evolution of LM damage skills can sometimes make Olfaran correct. But, the fact that ISG's DoTs are hotspots plus ISS+FireSkillsCritMultiplier's synergy with burst dps skills can sometimes make Egilric correct. Yay, everybody wins!
Of course, in one month all the verbs I’ve used so far will turn from present tense to past tense so… who cares!
Last edited by kriskrosed; Oct 09 2013 at 10:46 PM.
85 LM Berewen, 85 Burg Balculus, 85 Guard Benferth
I was solo healing small groups, as in 3 mans, before water lore and the spirit pet. (AND no, there was no warden tanking.) We have stopped being a support class due to the fact cc isn't really needed anymore. Most lm's never trait anything other than red and run around just spamming WL. WL is op, a crutch, and we didn't need it in the first place period. We already had 3 self heals. All it does is make the class ez mode and we aren't suppose to be that.
"You can't have your Kate and Eat her too!"
Katelia Rk 11 Lm, Peppermintt Rk 12 Warg, Katetastrophe Rk 12 WL, Kateaclysm Rk 12 defiler
pre water-lore you had to really think about the fight (solo) and how you wanted it to go down. WotC was the big OH NO! heal and I used it sparingly. Once WL became the very handy "I'm Immune to (nearly) Everything" Skill - yeah it got a lot easier to just wade-in without any plan at all.
It wasn't essential before but it made it easier for those who don't like to set up the fight, to not have to worry too much if things went side-ways. WL is there to the rescue.
Whoever says “I” creates the “you.” Such is the trap of every conscience. The “I” signifies both solitude and rejection of solitude. Words name things and then replace them. Whoever says tomorrow, denies it. Tomorrow exists only for him who does not seek it. And yesterday? Yesterday is Kolvillàg: a name to forget, a word already forgotten.
The Oath: A Novel by Elie Wiesel
Only content appreciating a yellow/AM traited LM at this point is BfE/Flight T2C. My LM would have been unemployed, had it not been for Improved Sticky Gour, off-healing and red-line pewpew. Making us a pure support class again, might also make us a waste of space in a group and slowpokes when soloing.
Revamps and class designs has to be created to match the content.
So I've skimmed through the comments, and I don't recall seeing anyone mention this (I'm relatively new to the class, so apologies if the reason for this is just plain ignorance): "For all Lore-masters, the skill “Gust of Wind” now has a chance to spread Burning Embers from one target to nearby foes. The trait “Mighty Wind”, increases the chance of this happening."
It's my understanding that there exsists a base probability of the spreading of Burning Embers, after using Gust of Wind, even without spending trait points. Wouldn't this be problematic in fights where multiple mobs need to be CC'ed, and dps'ed in close proximity (think Tower of Orthanc wings)? I've not played LM at endgame, but I would imagine that an AM traited LM would at least sometimes use Burning Embers on the dps target? So the options are to avoid Gust of Wind, or avoid using Burning Embers - sort of a trade off?
I.e. any controlled mobs would have already been broken from control if you hit them with Gust of Wind, so the chance of the dot spreading would be a non issue.
[I]In the sea without lees standeth the Bird of Hermes.
[/I][I]When all his feathers be from him gone, He standeth still here as a stone.
Here is now both white and red, And all so the stone to quicken the dead[/I][I].
The Bird of Hermes is my name, Eating my wings to make me tame.[/I]
Gust of Wind is no longer an AOE damaging skill, it has one target. Targets within its radius will have a chance to receive BE if the casted-on target has BE ticking - haven't tested this much, don't know about number of stacks spread, assuming just 1 per mob who procs the "spread" regardless of number of stacks main target had.
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