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  1. #1

    Mentoring and level scaling

    What this game really needs is mentoring. Mentoring is something very popular in EQ2 it allows higher level players to scale down in level to the level and the area of a group they are joining. Keeping the content challenging and giving the lower level characters in the group an Xp boost..

    In my Kin everyone agrees this iwould make grouping so much easier, not only for the instance finder content, but also for those lovely open world areas like gart Agarwen, Goblin town, and a plethora of other areas.. I think this would be very helpfull...

    Also NPc in all major camps that would give players a downlevel to make solo content in those areas more challenging.. The technollogy of scaling is allready in the game, and used for dungeons and the new upcomming big battles, please developers listen to this plea and add a feature like this, it would make the general game experience so much better, and make grouping with kinmates so much easier.

  2. #2
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    I can't say much about EQ2. In terms of the Epic Battles scaling system, you'll need to keep in mind that those zones are separate from the landscape. Implementing something in a special zone is different from implementing it in the normal landscape. I don't know how or to what extent it is done in EQ2, but I just thought I'd mention that.
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  3. #3
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    Down leveling would be great because it would make grouping easier since everyone can be on the same level when questing with friends

    But no EXP bonus please. There's so much experience in this game already. The bonus from downleveling should be that it would be more fun for someone Lv85 to go quest with a kinmember who's Lv25 for example, because they would be able to quest normally, instead of the Lv85 person killing all mobs by looking in their general direction
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  4. #4
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    Though I doubt that Turbine will imply this feature without making them store-related, this is nice idea which allows player to tackle low-level content with intented challenges.

    Rift Online also has this system. Just right-click on the portrait, choose the desired level which is lower or equal to your current level, and bam.

  5. #5
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    It's a good idea as long as it's optional. Sometimes it's nice to have a big strong friend to help you blow through a fellowship that you have done several times.
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  6. #6
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    The Turbine devs. did say in one of the 20 Questions twitter chats that if the up-scaling that's being introduced with the Helm's Deep expansion works out OK then they'll maybe look into doing something along the lines of what you're asking for.
    [center][url=http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?18699-How-to-get-help-on-the-Tech-Forums-and-how-to-contact-Turbine][color=gold]How to get help on the Tech Forums and how to contact Turbine[/color][/url]

    [color=green]Please reply to the topic or PM me if a solution I posted works for you: The more data I can gather the better I can help.[/color][/center]

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by WBS View Post
    The Turbine devs. did say in one of the 20 Questions twitter chats that if the up-scaling that's being introduced with the Helm's Deep expansion works out OK then they'll maybe look into doing something along the lines of what you're asking for.
    They better do.. Because paying vips are keaving my kin and the game because in small to midsize kins its almost impossible to group unless you all are level 85... And this game is currently not played for endgame but for the journey.....


    Personally i think its long overdue and of the highest priority.... Letting friends of all kinds of levels play together and enjoy the game in groupcombat

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymphonic View Post
    It's a good idea as long as it's optional.
    I agree. I have no desire to downscale for anything, but I have no fundamental issue with the option.

  9. #9
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    The best implementation I've seen for a mentoring system is in Rift where a player can reduce their level and access lower level content at the level it was meant to be done at. It's done in a number of ways:

    1. By a menu option where the player can manually set their level. Their hit points, power, attack power, armour rating and other stats etc are all proportionately scaled down though they keep the same armour & weapons and skills. I see this occur a lot in dungeons where a player with a higher level char will help out friends without taking away all of the challenge.

    2. In the "Instant Adventure" option, where the player travels around in a group doing group quests & Rifts / invasions. There the level reduction is undertaken automatically so that a mixed group of levels is reduced down to the lowest aggregate level.

    I'd love to see this feature in LOTRO - opening up the older content by allowing lvl cap players to help out others without killing the experience of the lower levels in the group, or just do older content "on level".

    Fingers crossed.
    <A sig goes here>

  10. #10
    When I was leveling my main, I occasionally got 'help' from a kinmate. That usually meant staying out of the way while they quickly mowed down everything in sight. Not much fun for either of us. Now I'm leveling alts and can find no one interested in lower level instances. It would be a great idea to revive the instances and have them enough of a challenge to higher level players so that the lower level players could learn from the experience.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheery View Post
    When I was leveling my main, I occasionally got 'help' from a kinmate. That usually meant staying out of the way while they quickly mowed down everything in sight. Not much fun for either of us. Now I'm leveling alts and can find no one interested in lower level instances. It would be a great idea to revive the instances and have them enough of a challenge to higher level players so that the lower level players could learn from the experience.

    Just imagine how much more fun leveling will be when you can finally group with your friends at all level ranges and still have challenging content..

    It would not only be a skyrocketing feature, but also a gamesaver to keep longtime players involved with the game...

    I recognise what you are saying, its a game of alts and everyone loves to group, but currently as you say its impossible to find groups to do all that great fellowship content while leveling. I recently returned to the game and plan to play one character to 95, and move on after that, feeling sad for all that great content that i missed and not have a chance to experience because lotro developers just as allmost all other developers fail to realise that they need to make all groupcontent easilly accesible to players of all level ranges

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bachus View Post
    What this game really needs is mentoring. Mentoring is something very popular in EQ2 it allows higher level players to scale down in level to the level and the area of a group they are joining. Keeping the content challenging and giving the lower level characters in the group an Xp boost..

    In my Kin everyone agrees this iwould make grouping so much easier, not only for the instance finder content, but also for those lovely open world areas like gart Agarwen, Goblin town, and a plethora of other areas.. I think this would be very helpfull...

    Also NPc in all major camps that would give players a downlevel to make solo content in those areas more challenging.. The technollogy of scaling is allready in the game, and used for dungeons and the new upcomming big battles, please developers listen to this plea and add a feature like this, it would make the general game experience so much better, and make grouping with kinmates so much easier.
    I would go one step further - even though what you suggest should be mandatory for all MMORPGs - but ALL monsters should scale accordingly based on the individual or group's level. It would keep the landscapes relevant and the combat interesting.

    Though this is assuming they would know how to scale combat appropriately to begin with, which the current developers in charge of LOTRO do not. Even level 85 monsters are ridiculously pathetic and can be defeated easily with the auto attack by players who have invested in their character.

    So while I agree with your suggestion, I don't think it would help any unless they get some better heads in charge of things. Because even if they allowed "down-scaling", the combat would still be wimpy, pathetic and not at all interesting.

  13. #13
    Downleveling is a lot more difficult then just lowering stats, since downleveling either means you have skills that are overpowered at that level, or you remove those skills and frustrate the player who is used to them. What do you do about Legendary items? Reducing their stats isn't sufficient since they have traits that boost skills beyond what you would normally be capable of at a lower level. What about set bonuses and jewelry procs? These weren't designed for lower levels, so even with lower stats, you are still going to be overpowered for the instance.

    In Helm's Deep, Turbine is taking the opposite approach and scaling up lower level players. In this case, all you need to do is raise stats -- you don't need to remove skills, remove or disable equipment, etc. These are fixed level instances, so presumably the same approach could be taken to the older fixed level instances -- just raise the mob stats to be appropriate for the level cap, and then scale up anyone who enters there that isn't at the level cap.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by nelar View Post
    Downleveling is a lot more difficult then just lowering stats, since downleveling either means you have skills that are overpowered at that level, or you remove those skills and frustrate the player who is used to them. What do you do about Legendary items? Reducing their stats isn't sufficient since they have traits that boost skills beyond what you would normally be capable of at a lower level. What about set bonuses and jewelry procs? These weren't designed for lower levels, so even with lower stats, you are still going to be overpowered for the instance.

    In Helm's Deep, Turbine is taking the opposite approach and scaling up lower level players. In this case, all you need to do is raise stats -- you don't need to remove skills, remove or disable equipment, etc. These are fixed level instances, so presumably the same approach could be taken to the older fixed level instances -- just raise the mob stats to be appropriate for the level cap, and then scale up anyone who enters there that isn't at the level cap.
    You should take a peek at how Rift does this - see my earlier post above. It's not perfect but it's better than not having any mentoring system that can be applied to all content and not just BBs.
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Bachus View Post
    What this game really needs is mentoring. Mentoring is something very popular in EQ2 it allows higher level players to scale down in level to the level and the area of a group they are joining. Keeping the content challenging and giving the lower level characters in the group an Xp boost..

    In my Kin everyone agrees this iwould make grouping so much easier, not only for the instance finder content, but also for those lovely open world areas like gart Agarwen, Goblin town, and a plethora of other areas.. I think this would be very helpfull...

    Also NPc in all major camps that would give players a downlevel to make solo content in those areas more challenging.. The technollogy of scaling is allready in the game, and used for dungeons and the new upcomming big battles, please developers listen to this plea and add a feature like this, it would make the general game experience so much better, and make grouping with kinmates so much easier.
    Just wanted to add that this is a good idea because it helps populate and consequently preserve the usefulness of open world areas ranging across the entire level spectrum. It's all well and good to have an instance finder, but that's only a small portion of the game content. Too many small group and full group quests go unchallenged or unfinished because there's not enough people around to do it. Having level 85 guild mates come along and stomp everything not only takes the fun away yet also the mob experience.

    A mentoring system similar to EverQuest 2 and or auto downscale via Guild Wars 2 (toggle character option), would really breathe life back into the nooks and crannies of the map content. This ultimately ensures that levelling players get to experience LOTRO in full, rather than make it a mad dash to end game because that's where all the population is.
    Last edited by Ranebow; Nov 18 2013 at 01:21 PM.

  16. #16
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    on the dot

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranebow View Post
    Just wanted to add that this is a good idea because it helps populate and consequently preserve the usefulness of open world areas ranging across the entire level spectrum. It's all well and good to have an instance finder, but that's only a small portion of the game content. Too many small group and full group quests go unchallenged or unfinished because there's not enough people around to do it. Having level 85 guild mates come along and stomp everything not only takes the fun away yet also the mob experience.

    A mentoring system similar to EverQuest 2 and or auto downscale via Guild Wars 2 (toggle character option), would really breathe life back into the nooks and crannies of the map content. This ultimately ensures that levelling players get to experience LOTRO in full, rather than make it a mad dash to end game because that's where all the population is.
    I have quested within angmar..many quests require or suggest a fellowship...level 47 quest with level 47 character...leveled up to level 50-51 quest remains a fellowship requirement...LFF requests show a no thanks from levels higher than quest level...mentoring idea...lets become a function

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ranebow View Post
    Just wanted to add that this is a good idea because it helps populate and consequently preserve the usefulness of open world areas ranging across the entire level spectrum. It's all well and good to have an instance finder, but that's only a small portion of the game content. Too many small group and full group quests go unchallenged or unfinished because there's not enough people around to do it. Having level 85 guild mates come along and stomp everything not only takes the fun away yet also the mob experience.

    A mentoring system similar to EverQuest 2 and or auto downscale via Guild Wars 2 (toggle character option), would really breathe life back into the nooks and crannies of the map content. This ultimately ensures that levelling players get to experience LOTRO in full, rather than make it a mad dash to end game because that's where all the population is.
    It's a good idea, and I think that's what held the original design of LOTRO back in the first place. There weren't enough players in the earlier levels to get group-based progression content done, which lead to frustration and eventually subscription cancellations.

    If only they had taken this approach earlier in this game's life... Lotro would be a much richer and rewarding experience today.

    There is really no need for a "mentoring-system" though. All they would have to do is scale the content based on the lowest-level in the group and offer level-based rewards that are useful to the player. Problem solved.

  18. #18
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    I believe this was first done in City of Heroes/Villains (RIP - gone before your time). Their system allowed you to adjust your level up OR down to match the group and it worked wonderfully (although it did have some growing pains until the kinks got worked out). Their loot system was fairly simple which probably made it a lot easier than it would be for LOTRO world content (should be easy for skirmeshes though).

    I hope they implement something similar soon since leveling up now can be one long, lonely solofest.

 

 

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