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Thread: GUNS

  1. #26
    It is not at all appropriate to the story, the setting, or the game. Some things are appropriate and can fit in order to make the game world richer. This wouldn't.
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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miven-Lionsheild View Post
    Ya but... saruman did have black powder and the game makes up all sorts of "top of the head" stuff like Skorgrim and the Dourhands, The brigands, characters, Most factions such as the lossoth of Forochel and the Eglain, Monsters/bosses, Cities, events, even most of the epics are made all up! There are more than even I can come up with! How is making a new class/weapon actually based on Sarumans black powder when lots of #### is completely Turbines idea copyright?
    Because Saul Zaentz Co. would not permit it. Like I said above, Turbine can only push the envelope so far. Guns are too far. Eagle mounts are too far. Beorning class is too far. Motorcycle mounts are too far. The Turbine response to the above suggestions, if any is given, is a pic of Grumpy Cat with the word "no". (Grumpy Cat supercedes the fury of us lore mavens in this area.)
    Cener, Ingo, Rilibald, Hesred, Halras, Loringo
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  3. #28
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    Post re-answer

    OK so not everything is false but there still allot of false stuff. LOTS, so a musketeer is a great idea and isn't to hard to fit in Tolkien lore.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nosdracir View Post
    Motorcycle mounts are too far. The Turbine response to the above suggestions, if any is given, is a pic of Grumpy Cat with the word "no". (Grumpy Cat supercedes the fury of us lore mavens in this area.)
    Wait, did someone actually suggest motorcycle mounts?
    A warden of Lothlorien meets up a with a rune keeper from Lindon and a friendship is sparked. An elf hunter from Mirkwood finds a minstrel mourning the loss of Edhellen. A captain of Rohan rides to Bree and comes across a burned farm, the only survivor a young woman who'd defended herself with a rusted sword and axe. Thus many adventures begin.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordofTime View Post
    Wait, did someone actually suggest motorcycle mounts?
    I guess you missed the thread about the Harley-Mearas.
    Cener, Ingo, Rilibald, Hesred, Halras, Loringo
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  6. #31
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    Arrow Re-re-re-reply

    Ok, so you guys agree with me on this now, have I won this debate?

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miven-Lionsheild View Post
    Ok, so you guys agree with me on this now, have I won this debate?
    grumpycat.jpg
    Cener, Ingo, Rilibald, Hesred, Halras, Loringo
    Arkenstone (ex-Elendilmir) - The Osgiliath Guard
    http://www.theoldergamers.com

  8. #33
    Debate? What debate? And no, we don't agree with you at all.
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  9. #34
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    I do not agree. Even though you live in the same province that you do.
    A warden of Lothlorien meets up a with a rune keeper from Lindon and a friendship is sparked. An elf hunter from Mirkwood finds a minstrel mourning the loss of Edhellen. A captain of Rohan rides to Bree and comes across a burned farm, the only survivor a young woman who'd defended herself with a rusted sword and axe. Thus many adventures begin.

  10. #35
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    Arrow re-re-re-re-reply

    OK so here's a vague and brief replay of debate so far (this has become a debate, yes) I said musketeers, you guys said copyright, I say not really, you don't agree. and now I will say this:

    Turbine has been more creative before. The best I can think of is an ancient evil magic zombie dwarf king (Skorgrim) and an evil halforc breeding outlaw lord from Dunland (Skarkey) that was never mentioned in the story. Those push the envelope so far it is a speck in the distance. On the OTHER hand theres the musketeers. Saruman already made the powder, and after that maybe he started making guns but he didn't really have time to issue them to his troops. maybe someone found his thing somewhere in the ruins of the place underwater? Along those lines would be ok. I know that Turbine has gone pretty far. So like I said how can musketeers be so bad, eh?

  11. #36
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    Question And...

    What do provinces have anything to do with it?

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miven-Lionsheild View Post
    What do provinces have anything to do with it?
    Meh, absolutely nothing.
    A warden of Lothlorien meets up a with a rune keeper from Lindon and a friendship is sparked. An elf hunter from Mirkwood finds a minstrel mourning the loss of Edhellen. A captain of Rohan rides to Bree and comes across a burned farm, the only survivor a young woman who'd defended herself with a rusted sword and axe. Thus many adventures begin.

  13. #38
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    Arrow re-re-re-re-re-reply

    Ok, now where do we stand on the issue?

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miven-Lionsheild View Post
    OK so here's a vague and brief replay of debate so far (this has become a debate, yes) I said musketeers, you guys said copyright, I say not really, you don't agree. and now I will say this:

    Turbine has been more creative before. The best I can think of is an ancient evil magic zombie dwarf king (Skorgrim) and an evil halforc breeding outlaw lord from Dunland (Skarkey) that was never mentioned in the story. Those push the envelope so far it is a speck in the distance.
    Zombie magic = Necromancy. The concept of Necromancy is an old one, and in the books (though Skorgrim himself is not).
    A warden of Lothlorien meets up a with a rune keeper from Lindon and a friendship is sparked. An elf hunter from Mirkwood finds a minstrel mourning the loss of Edhellen. A captain of Rohan rides to Bree and comes across a burned farm, the only survivor a young woman who'd defended herself with a rusted sword and axe. Thus many adventures begin.

  15. #40
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    Arrow re-re-re-re-re-re-reply

    Ok let me refraise that... Evil zombie dwarf king. Still far fetched, right? (by the way Tolkien actually denies that its possible for dwarves to be evil.) So musketeers are hardly impossible.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miven-Lionsheild View Post
    OK so here's a vague and brief replay of debate so far (this has become a debate, yes) I said musketeers, you guys said copyright, I say not really, you don't agree. and now I will say this:

    Turbine has been more creative before. The best I can think of is an ancient evil magic zombie dwarf king (Skorgrim) and an evil halforc breeding outlaw lord from Dunland (Skarkey) that was never mentioned in the story. Those push the envelope so far it is a speck in the distance. On the OTHER hand theres the musketeers. Saruman already made the powder, and after that maybe he started making guns but he didn't really have time to issue them to his troops. maybe someone found his thing somewhere in the ruins of the place underwater? Along those lines would be ok. I know that Turbine has gone pretty far. So like I said how can musketeers be so bad, eh?
    Sharky is Saruman, from the Black Speech sharku, old man. He bred orcs and half orcs in imitation of Sauron and Morgoth before him. He's 99 and 44/100% pure lore.

    Skorgrim follows directly from the barrow wights in the books, which were evil spirit/undead creatures. Barrow wights were created by the Witch King sending evil spirits to infest the Barrow Downs. It follows lore that he could have done the same with dead dwarves. Not a stretch.

    The "fires of Orthanc" that are used to breach the culvert at the Battle of the Hornburg are not clearly gunpowder. They are some kind of evil technology. Some kind of evil blasting magic. They get transmogrified into "black powder" in LOTRO starting with Nan Wathren, but this doesn't mean they can be extrapolated into gunpowder and firearms.

    The company that owns the IP license for The Lord of the Rings trilogy would not permit Turbine to exceed the license by doing this. They've put a stop to a number of things in the past, and guns would clearly be another instance of "No". You could send an email to Saul Zaentz Co. querying this if you wish. If they were willing to respond, I'd bet dollars against doughnuts that I've correctly ascertained their answer.
    Cener, Ingo, Rilibald, Hesred, Halras, Loringo
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  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nosdracir View Post

    The company that owns the IP license for The Lord of the Rings trilogy would not permit Turbine to exceed the license by doing this. They've put a stop to a number of things in the past, and guns would clearly be another instance of "No". You could send an email to Saul Zaentz Co. querying this if you wish. If they were willing to respond, I'd bet dollars against doughnuts that I've correctly ascertained their answer.
    Out of curiosity, what has Saul Zaentz co. put a stop to in the past?
    A warden of Lothlorien meets up a with a rune keeper from Lindon and a friendship is sparked. An elf hunter from Mirkwood finds a minstrel mourning the loss of Edhellen. A captain of Rohan rides to Bree and comes across a burned farm, the only survivor a young woman who'd defended herself with a rusted sword and axe. Thus many adventures begin.

  18. #43
    Adding guns to the game would go against everything Tolkien stood for and would kill the game since most including myself would leave due to it not being Lotr anymore.
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  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by bamatram View Post
    Adding guns to the game would go against everything Tolkien stood for and would kill the game since most including myself would leave due to it not being Lotr anymore.
    I agree. Especially because a big part of playing this game is because it's (mostly) Lore-Based. If I wanted guns I would go and play something else.
    A warden of Lothlorien meets up a with a rune keeper from Lindon and a friendship is sparked. An elf hunter from Mirkwood finds a minstrel mourning the loss of Edhellen. A captain of Rohan rides to Bree and comes across a burned farm, the only survivor a young woman who'd defended herself with a rusted sword and axe. Thus many adventures begin.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by bamatram View Post
    Adding guns to the game would go against everything Tolkien stood for and would kill the game since most including myself would leave due to it not being Lotr anymore.
    I fully agree with you guns would ruin the game.

  21. #46
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    Imagine how noisy the game would be with all the shouts and cries and guns going off! No thank you!!

  22. #47
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    We already have "Riders of Rohan", how about an expansion called "Tank drivers of Gondor"?

    Now, seriously - i don't see musketeers in the books. Adding something like this would break the lore, which is the main reason people play this game and there are also licenses to follow. Skorgrim and numerous named bosses are added to the game because otherwise it would be boring as hell - Imagine no bosses, no raids...
    The main difference between LotRO and other games (WoW is good example since I've played it and also it was mentioned before) is that LotRO is based on books that are al
    ready written. Warcraft started with 1-3 and few books, but there are new books every year and Blizzard uses them in their lore. If you don't understand something in LotRO, you take almost 60 years old book and look it up. In WoW, I encountered some strange lore, searched for a while and found out it's from a book published about two months ago and lore just assumed "Yup, you've read this on release date, haven't you?".

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miven-Lionsheild View Post
    Ok let me refraise that... Evil zombie dwarf king. Still far fetched, right? (by the way Tolkien actually denies that its possible for dwarves to be evil.) So musketeers are hardly impossible.
    Oh no, he doesn't. We're told some Dwarves even took Sauron's side in the War of the Last Alliance, so that's direct evidence they could be evil (or amoral, at least). The Turbine version is, of course, way over the top but that's MMOs for you - they don't do 'subtle'. Basically Dwarves loved gold a bit too much and some of them didn't care where it came from.

    The reason musketeers are out of keeping is simple: old man Tolkien liked old tales, stuff like Beowulf and sagas, and that's why for example the Rohirrim are like something out of the Dark Ages. Can't really square guns with that. Besides that, guns don't go with the whole heroic epic thing, because they're an awful lot easier to learn how to use than bows. Next, if we're talking muskets rather than something more low-tech like primitive cannon, then that would change the whole style of warfare -- probably to something 17th-century style (the time The Three Musketeers is set), with lots of pikemen as well as musketeers on the battlefield. Different ball game and again, so not what Tolkien had in mind. Last but not least, there's this persistent theme where only the bad guys use technologies like that in war. Gandalf makes fireworks, but Saruman and Sauron make bombs.

    Some fantasies have 'gunpowder Dwarves' who use guns - like Warhammer and WarCraft (WarCraft started off as Blizzard's rip-off of Warhammer, hence the similarity), but most don't and this is one of the latter. No guns! So either you accept that, or it's going to positively snow pictures of Grumpy Cat saying "No."

  24. #49
    For a good threating of Elves/dwarves/magic versus guns, one could go read "Last elf" by Bernhard Hennen, im currently mesmerized by these series. Even up to polishing my rusty german language.

    But for the LotR, some 'blasting power' is all there is of the stuff. Turbine included some stuff of 'black powder' starting with the NorhtDowns orcs invasion on Threstlebridge. And its not clear, what exactly it is. From book, that could as well be nitrocellulose (unrelated to gunpowder at all, and unfit for guns, but makes for nice explosives).
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    Thank you, Turbine, for listening and giving us an opt-out of FE! Good work!

  25. #50
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    Why not simply create a Call of Duty Mod with a Gandalf soldier?
    Elendilmir - 95 Hunter Berenthalion - 80ish Burg Berendybuck - baby warden Berenion.

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