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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    7

    Get rid of the 2 player limit in quests please.

    I´m levelling a character with 2 other friends and we are starting to get a little bit tired of the "this instance is for 2 people max" messages in lots of quests. Quite frankly i can´t find any reason to put this arbitrary limit. I can understand a solo only instance where the player is supposed to stay in whatever place yadda yadda, but if a quest accepts 2 people, then it can accept 3, 4 or even a double raid. So why this absurd limit? Having one of us drop fellowship every 15 minutes it´s getting old, and it´s really annoying and pointless. Even the "New Devilry" instance, wich was a 6 man before has been emasculated to a 2 man maximun, wich baffles me.

    So whoever is in charge of this please, no more "2 people max" quests. I´m not asking for quests scaled for whatever group composition, just get rid of the pointless limit. Hope i see no more of those in Helm´s Deep.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
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    Middle Earth, Arda
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    4,249

    Red face

    That means that instance is way too easy that it can be soloed, but they give you permision to bring 1 friend in case you are too squishy. Why you need a 3rd fellow there?
    Is this Alternate Character Disorder? :

    Check my Kinship at Gladden server: The Fate of Middle Earth

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    1,495
    Quote Originally Posted by Luinwen View Post
    I´m levelling a character with 2 other friends and we are starting to get a little bit tired of the "this instance is for 2 people max" messages in lots of quests. Quite frankly i can´t find any reason to put this arbitrary limit. I can understand a solo only instance where the player is supposed to stay in whatever place yadda yadda, but if a quest accepts 2 people, then it can accept 3, 4 or even a double raid. So why this absurd limit? Having one of us drop fellowship every 15 minutes it´s getting old, and it´s really annoying and pointless. Even the "New Devilry" instance, wich was a 6 man before has been emasculated to a 2 man maximun, wich baffles me.

    So whoever is in charge of this please, no more "2 people max" quests. I´m not asking for quests scaled for whatever group composition, just get rid of the pointless limit. Hope i see no more of those in Helm´s Deep.
    Oh I know! I often play with my sweetie and our long-time LOTRO pal, and those limited instances (whether it's solo-only or duo-only) are annoying to me, especially when it's just standing around listening to people talk. I'm almost never playing solo, so I'd love to have more options for doing quests as a duo or group--and not because that makes it easier (if they scaled them to match the group size that would be fine by me), but because it allows us to continue the flow of group questing without interruption and allows for better RP associated with landscape questing. More options for all, please!

  4. #4
    Turbine claims that it is necessary because of the story elements.

    Swtor has a nice implementation. In that game the group leader owns the instance. Everything is keyed of the actions and choices made the owner. Everybody else is put in spectator mode when a choice come up. Got to stand on a spot - The leader has to stand on it.

    The only annoyance is if you have a group of 3. You have to do the instance three times.
    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  5. #5
    I suspect this is to combat instance farming by large groups. Sucks for those doing the right thing.
    [SIZE=3]NO SLEEP 'TILL MORDOR!![/SIZE]

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    7
    Quote Originally Posted by YamydeAragon View Post
    That means that instance is way too easy that it can be soloed, but they give you permision to bring 1 friend in case you are too squishy. Why you need a 3rd fellow there?
    It´s not the difficulty (wich is nil) but the annoyance of someone having to drop group every 5 minutes. There´s no reason for that limit, absolutely none. I don´t buy the story elements either. It´s irrelevant for helping the Thane of Cliving spank some orcs, it´s irrelevant for the ride with the captain west of Cliving and his bozos, and it goes like that for a ton of quests (helping that girl in the Cliving training ground spank bears and orcs? Yet more "max 2 people" for absolutely no reason).

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Luinwen View Post
    I don´t buy the story elements either.
    I agree with you. The story elements is the explanation that Turbine gives us. Turbine does not accept our protests such "I don't buy the story elements either.".

    My personal opinion is that Turbine has made a command decision of the "Because I said so" type. Turbine is trying to find some justification after the fact.

    Note: The "Because I said so" decisions are very common in all aspects of life. It should not come as any surprise that we encounter these kind of decisions within the Lotro software.

    Essentially we are in the same situation that my children were in when they were much younger and I imposed a choice that I did not approve of:

    1) Child - I want to do x.
    2) Yula - No
    3) Child - Why?
    4) Yula - Insert explanation
    5) Child - I am not buying that explanation.
    6) Yula - You have been provided the explanation. The decision will not change. This conversation is ended.

    We already had 1-5 on with Turbine. Turbine is not going to cause a forum flame riot by providing some variation of 6. Instead we get silence or a repeat of 4 perhaps with a different wording.
    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    I have to agree with this one. It is dumb.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
    Continuing the never ending battle to keep Lobelia Sackville-Baggins in check

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    Fortress of Solitude
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    311
    It's an annoyance to be certain. I did feel the same way going through a lot of the higher content that required solo-only. I accepted that as part of the game design and didn't let it spoil my fun.
    Tamoro Quickfoot, esq. Gentleman Farmer/Cook/Brewer. Treasure-hunter (semi-retired) and Husband of the lovely Tearna

    Lonely Mountain Band/Quickfoot Estates - Landroval

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    12,677
    Quote Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty View Post
    The only annoyance is if you have a group of 3. You have to do the instance three times.
    In TOR, the code obviously handles changing the wording on the fly based on how many people are in the instance, sometimes even based on what type of classes are with you. Given that, it couldn't be incredibly difficult to award everyone there who qualified credit for the instance, but they don't. Why not? I suspect because doing it multiple times is a time sink... something MMOs rely on.

    However, even that excuse falls down in LOTRO's case. Having people split their party and do the instance concurrently takes no more time than it does for a single group - and it probably consumes more server resources. The only reason I can think of is along the line of yours: they designed it this way originally, and just don't want to take the time to change it (and test it)... perhaps because not that many people (as a percentage of the whole) run into this situation.

    Affected customers hate this, but questions like "Is there a work-around?" and "How many people are impacted by this?" do go into the triage that's done on defects and enhancement requests, helping to prioritize development time. If the answers to those two questions are "Yes", and "4%" (or something)... that feature is less likely to be changed.

    Khafar

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    10,510
    While I agree with the general point being made by the OP (and I've posted versions of it myself), there is some (game) history here.

    In general, the game started with solo content and group content (small group as well as larger ones).

    Turbine got push-back for more solo content. In addition--as more and more solo-only content got added--there has been push-back against forced solo.

    There are cases where solo-only is required by content design. I personally think that this is overused, but I agree that there are some valid cases for it.

    My question for the OP is this: Where are you finding all this "intended for solo, but duo permitted" content? I've seen very, very little of it.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    7
    Quote Originally Posted by whheydt View Post
    While I agree with the general point being made by the OP (and I've posted versions of it myself), there is some (game) history here.

    In general, the game started with solo content and group content (small group as well as larger ones).

    Turbine got push-back for more solo content. In addition--as more and more solo-only content got added--there has been push-back against forced solo.

    There are cases where solo-only is required by content design. I personally think that this is overused, but I agree that there are some valid cases for it.

    My question for the OP is this: Where are you finding all this "intended for solo, but duo permitted" content? I've seen very, very little of it.
    I don´t think this problem applies to level 65 and lower content. Only instance i remember like that is precisely "New Devilry", wich i knew like a 6 man and found it changed to a "solo, but duo permitted" (and it´s quite a long instance so having to drop group is really annoying). We avoided Myrkwood, most of Enedwaith and only reached (and completed) the Bog in Dunland before switching to Rohan. I don´t remember being particularly annoyed with "duo at utmost" back then.

    To me the problem starts being noticeable in Rohan. It´s there when i remember our group started grumbling about the maximun 2 people instances. It was really ludicrous in Cliving, when the captain in the tower west of Cliving asks our help to ride gloriously and kill some orcs (but 2 people max), then the Thane himself feels in the mood of spanking some orcish behinds (2 people max) and then we must take care of her cute daughter/relative, who enjoys hunting bears (2 people max) and is horrified when the training ground is attacked by Uruks that we must defeat..with 2 people max! Now i´m starting to regret not having taken note of those offending instances (but will keep a log of the new ones i find, i really hope it gets better). It´s double shocking when moments before you have been riding in the landscape happily in group zapping whatever appears in your way (those quests accept whatever group composition without a complaint).

    To me it feels like they got "Instance Builder 2.0" with Rohan, and this new program defaults to "solo, but duo allowed" when creating the instance. None has checked the default preferences, so we get "solo, but duo allowed" constantly. I won´t start asking for a complete scan of quest instances and removal of this limitation, but atleast in the new expac get rid of it. And if 6 people want to faceroll whatever quest instance this way, just leave them be (mark those quest as solo but leave the option for more people). Once you complete the quest it´s gone anyways and can´t be exploited.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    The Tardis
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    105
    I feel as though I am the opposite, I would rather solo quests unless they are instances specifically tailored to 3 + people and there is no way you can complete them otherwise.
    Or if you are deeding. Deeding is boring without others.
    A warden of Lothlorien meets up a with a rune keeper from Lindon and a friendship is sparked. An elf hunter from Mirkwood finds a minstrel mourning the loss of Edhellen. A captain of Rohan rides to Bree and comes across a burned farm, the only survivor a young woman who'd defended herself with a rusted sword and axe. Thus many adventures begin.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    Gallifrey. I need a Jelly Baby.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordofTime View Post
    Deeding is boring without others.

    Oh man, tell me about it. I can deed for maybe 10 minutes before I have to stop. Ugh.

    Deeding is just not for anyone from Galifrey.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
    Continuing the never ending battle to keep Lobelia Sackville-Baggins in check

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    The Tardis
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    105
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymphonic View Post
    Oh man, tell me about it. I can deed for maybe 10 minutes before I have to stop. Ugh.

    Deeding is just not for anyone from Galifrey.
    Agreed. I don't like to deed alone anymore than I like to Time Travel alone.
    A warden of Lothlorien meets up a with a rune keeper from Lindon and a friendship is sparked. An elf hunter from Mirkwood finds a minstrel mourning the loss of Edhellen. A captain of Rohan rides to Bree and comes across a burned farm, the only survivor a young woman who'd defended herself with a rusted sword and axe. Thus many adventures begin.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Khafar View Post
    In TOR, the code obviously handles changing the wording on the fly based on how many people are in the instance, sometimes even based on what type of classes are with you. Given that, it couldn't be incredibly difficult to award everyone there who qualified credit for the instance, but they don't. Why not? I suspect because doing it multiple times is a time sink... something MMOs rely on.
    ...
    Khafar
    I do not know how the customers handle this situation in the majority of cases. Based on my own experience I see:

    1) It is tightly bound group. Husband and Wife. They pick two different classes in the same faction. Do everything together. For the class line the wife is in spectator mode was the Husband does the Trooper instances. The Husband in spectator mode when the wife is doing Smuggler instances. There is a time sink issue because they do not want to do the same instance twice back to back.

    2) The group breaks in solo play. They start two, three or four instances. There is no time sink. There getting into the server resource issue.

    3) Some are going to do them multiple time. No idea how many people do a Jedi Knight instance 2, 3 or 4 times in one sitting. This situation would bore me to tears.

    You do get social points for spectator mode. It is not much. Must be one point for each conversation choice the owner makes.
    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by whheydt View Post
    My question for the OP is this: Where are you finding all this "intended for solo, but duo permitted" content? I've seen very, very little of it.
    You find this situation in part of Epic Line Volume 2. I think it is Book 6. You find it in Ednewaith, Rise of Isengard and Rders of Rohan scattered in the landscape content and in the Epic.

    You also find examples of pure solo - can't bring a helper. Some of these truly solo instances are significantly harder that the regular content for some classes. Easy mode with a Guardian. Really hard to do with a Hunter. It is designed for a tank class with taunts. You are a squishy without aggro skills - It gets really hard because are getting stuffing beat out of you. Or it is escort quest and NPC is gets killed.
    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  18. #18
    As you level up, you will find more and more solo only quests and instances. If you play solo, that is nice, but it totally sucks if you want to or you do a group ( however many ). I wish that they would make all of them available as either solo or group not just solo. When my brother still played and we would group, this would have us have to break up our group just to go do the quest. In this game, that shouldn't ever have to happen. I know it might take a bit to make those solo only quests into solo and/or group but it would be well worth it and might even encourage more people to want to group up. Not that they would have to to do the quest(s) but that they could. I play solo now that my brother has stopped playing so I can do them alone but it seems very unfair to make people stop grouping together (that truly enjoy it) in a game really based on fellowshipping.

  19. #19
    That's the thing though - group players can also solo, but the opposite isn't true. People are not willing to group with people who aren't their friends in this game, and if you aren't playing the game with friends, well, you are just out of luck when it comes to grouping.

    Is it worth the time and effort to try and accommodate a fraction of their player base? Apparently not.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Orem
    Posts
    873
    Quote Originally Posted by Luinwen View Post
    I´m levelling a character with 2 other friends and we are starting to get a little bit tired of the "this instance is for 2 people max" messages in lots of quests. Quite frankly i can´t find any reason to put this arbitrary limit. I can understand a solo only instance where the player is supposed to stay in whatever place yadda yadda, but if a quest accepts 2 people, then it can accept 3, 4 or even a double raid. So why this absurd limit? Having one of us drop fellowship every 15 minutes it´s getting old, and it´s really annoying and pointless. Even the "New Devilry" instance, wich was a 6 man before has been emasculated to a 2 man maximun, wich baffles me.

    So whoever is in charge of this please, no more "2 people max" quests. I´m not asking for quests scaled for whatever group composition, just get rid of the pointless limit. Hope i see no more of those in Helm´s Deep.
    well just wait until you get to session play or solo play you will think 2 people max is great, Because of the fact that session play is solo play and solo play is one player not two.

 

 

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