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  1. #1
    Sapience is offline Former Community Manager & Harbinger of Soon
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    Developer Diary : Captain Class Changes in Helm’s Deep

    Developer Diary : Captain Class Changes in Helm’s Deep

    By RockX

    Hello all! RockX here, and it’s time to talk Captain. Captain was definitely challenging, as I needed to keep in mind all four roles the Captain fills. As such, the main goal was to allow each of the three specializations to fully function in its chosen role while allowing the Captain to buff their allies appropriately. In addition, I wanted to make buffing offer more active and engaging gameplay, rewarding the Captain for using buffs at opportune moments. [READ MORE]

  2. #2
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    Talking Awesome!

    This sounds fantastic! I can't wait to see it in action.

  3. #3
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    Is anything going to be done about captains needing to carry around many more armors sets than other classes to be as effective?

    Swap for the rez. Swap for Oathies. Swap for... etc
    Crell-L85-Champion - Riddermark ; Swego-L85-Burglar ; Kotvi-L95-Runekeeper
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by dev diary
    Leader of Men Captains can fully function as tanks... ...using a two-handed weapon.
    Leader of Men Captain focuses on drawing the attention of his foes, using a two-handed weapon...
    Specified twice, are we supposed to infer from this no more shield usage? (Which is a primary way to obtain critical defense.)

    Also no comment about the horrible power problems of captanks being resolved?

    Any revision regarding legacies/buffsticks? Or do captains still need upwards of five outfitted legacy items?

    PS: I do like the idea of buffs being applied in combat instead of tediously ahead of time, they'll work just like burg buffs! Of course burg buffs benefit an entire raid. Also captains buffs applying to other players meant you didn't need multiple captains to buff an entire raid, will that be the case now, akin to minstrel buffs? (IE, before you wanted one burg, two minstrels, and a captain, now will we want a burg, two minis, and two captains for full buffage?)
    Last edited by RJFerret; Sep 11 2013 at 12:32 PM.
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  5. #5
    I must say as a red-line-all-the-time captain that i am intrigued by the new blade brother buff mechanic. Who knows maybe captains will finally claim a spot as a respectable dps class.

    I'm also hoping that a captain who is not specialized in the healing tree or only partially invested in it will still be potent enough of a healer to heal 3 mans and like.

    Overall I feel that i like these changes, skeptical as I am about skill trees.
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  6. #6
    Hands of Healing focuses on enhancing the Healing and Tactical Damage of your allies, Lead the Charge focuses on enhancing the Physical Damage of your allies, and Leader of Men focuses on enhancing the Incoming Healing and Critical Defence of your allies.

    Let me preface by saying I don't play a captain, but...

    The Hands of Healing and Leader of Men focuses kinda seem backwards.

    When you're healing and your group is not, you enhance your groups' ability to heal? When you're taking all the damage and your group is not, you enhance their defence? Have to see it live obviously, but on the surface, just seems a little weird.
    85 LM Berewen, 85 Burg Balculus, 85 Guard Benferth

  7. #7
    So, HoH can heal their allies by spending their own morale, at the cost of less ability to restore their own morale...
    Catch 22 much? Captains already have little ability to restore their own morale; what sense is there in lowering it?
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by kriskrosed View Post
    When you're healing and your group is not, you enhance your groups' ability to heal?
    it's a focus on healing AND tactical damage. not just healing

    focus doesn't mean only too. I expect the buffs to give everyone something, just more potency on those rolls.
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  9. #9
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    So, this is all very depressing. The point of the captain class is to be able to provide SUPPORT, not main heals, not main tanks, and certainly not dps. And this whole buff based on traits thing? What is that, The buffs are not for us, they are for the fellowship. What use does a tank have for crit, or a healer for parry, or a hunter for focus? It's just not good at all, I was happy about the revamp, until I read this diary. Now I am dreading it.

    This is nothing short of a straight nerf for the captain class, We don't want our buffs touched, they are the most valuable part of our class. Do what you want to the trait lines, but the whole point of the captain is adaption to the changing fight, we are not supposed to be pigeon holed into one set up. What use is a ###### healer who can't keep himself up, or a dps that can't keep dps up. We are valuable for one reason, in a group. And now you're telling me Bubble is exclusive to tank line? What is that? It's like the devs have lost their minds.
    Hinras, Cappy, rank 9 - Highguard of Numenor

  10. #10
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    So glad Captain pets are being buffed. As it is they're really little better than a walking target for the -Brother skills. I hope in the end they're made as equally viable as banners.

    I also hope that with the changes to Lead the Charge that soloing as a Cappy(questing, etc) is made actually, y'know...

    fun.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackzilla1212 View Post
    And now you're telling me Bubble is exclusive to tank line? What is that? It's like the devs have lost their minds.
    Why are you placing emergency reactive skills in trait-exclusive lines?
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  12. #12
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    A lot of interesting things to be found in the dev diary!

    Leader of Men Captains can fully function as tanks
    Exciting!

    Heralds and Archers have also seen some love, with increased potency.
    It's about time on this one.

    Players will also notice some changes to the Battle-ready and Battle-hardened states, which offer stat bonuses to encourage weaving additional skills in between each step of the chain.
    This is a very cool idea, hopefully it will reduce the Rallying Cry spam in favour of more strategy.

    Hands of Healing Captains may also ‘Reform the Lines!’, sacrificing a portion of their Morale to apply a potent Heal over Time to their Fellowship.
    Hecks yeah. More heals are always good, and this sounds like it could get very interesting in a combo with In Harm's Way and Last Stand.

    while damage over time effects help to ensure the Captain’s damage persists between spikes
    More bleeds! I hope this means more bleeds anyway. More potent bleeds works too but it's not as fun as getting MOAR BLEEDS.

    while Shield of the Dúnedain drastically reduces the damage the Leader of Men (or an ally) takes.
    Another one that people have been looking forward to for a long time. I'm sure some will still be upset that this might not work in the other two lines, but hey, at least it works for tanking.
    Edit: It didn't occur to me that this skill might actually be completely locked into this trait line. If it is, I hope it's near the top like the LM's eagle. If not, there's gonna be a lot more unhappy people, myself included.

    The Tactics skills have been removed from the game.
    Ooook, this one I'm not so sure on. I guess this is really the only way to balance out how overpowered Relentless Attack was compared to the other two, but I'll be sad to see it go.

    Now, Captains may apply a Tactics buff (which depends on their specialization) to their Fellowship when they use Sure Strike. These buffs offer a substantial boost to their primary focus, while having smaller buffs for the other two archetypes.
    Now this is a cool idea that may make up for the loss of my crit buff. It ties buffs to trait lines, which I wasn't too happy about, but still gives all of the buffs anyway, just gives the other two on a lesser scale. This I believe I can live with.
    (The interesting thing on this is that a captain tank will get the most tank buffs then, which may actually be enough to encourage some groups to take a captain over guard or warden. Suppose it's gonna depend how much of the rest of tanking got fixed though.)
    Last edited by TinDragon; Sep 11 2013 at 12:55 PM.
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  13. #13
    The way the Hands of Healing line seems to work, you can heal your fellowship all you like until the point where you keel over. So essentially, you're gonna need a mini and a cap--cap for the rest of the group, mini just to keep the cap alive. At that point, you may as well just dispense with the cappy altogether.

    I dunno, seems sort of pointless to me. We'll see how it works out.

  14. #14
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    Dev diary (https://www.lotro.com/en/game/articl...E2%80%99s-deep) seems to imply:

    1. Hands of Healing captain able to mainheal - "The Hands of Healing specialization is very capable of both healing a group and dealing respectable damage at the same time." Assuming the actual numbers bear this out it means both our healing and DPS in HoH will be better than in live, where we are capable of neither mainhealing a group in any challenging content OR respectable DPS.

    2. "A Lead the Charge Captain specializes in delivering heavy burst damage to single targets, using both Physical and Tactical skills to his advantage. Many of the Lead the Charge skills deliver higher Critical Damage, while damage over time effects help to ensure the Captain’s damage persists between spikes." This tells us basically nothing about where we will rank in DPS stakes. Will it still be less than every other class (Minstrels in Warspeech, Overpower Guards etc), or will our Red line really do "Heavy" damage?

    3. "The Leader of Men Captain focuses on drawing the attention of his foes, using a two-handed weapon and taunts to keep their attention. Leaders of Men survive the assault of their enemies through a combination of self-healing and reducing their damage taken." Again tells us nothing, cos, you know thats how wardens and guardians and champ tanks work too. Again, where do we rank?

    On to the buffs:

    "Hands of Healing focuses on enhancing the Healing and Tactical Damage of your allies," umm, if we are capable of mainhealing, why are our allies healing too? Boosting Tactical DPS is interesting, I can see the HoH cap grouped with all the tactical DPS in a raid, and the melee/ranged DPS with the Lead the Charge Captain potentially.

    "Leader of Men focuses on enhancing the Incoming Healing and Critical Defence of your allies." Hopefully this won't be needed, because, you know, we'll be actually tanking so they won't be taking much damage? Right?

    EDIT:

    Blah
    Last edited by aardnebby; Sep 11 2013 at 12:51 PM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crell_1 View Post
    Why are you placing emergency reactive skills in trait-exclusive lines?
    My point exactly, If anything a skill that PREVENTS damage, should be in a healing line. But I don't think any of our Oathies/bubble/idome should be stuck in a single trait line. Not sure about the rest, but the nerfing of bubble is a SERIOUS nerf to captains. That is probably our single most powerful skill.
    Hinras, Cappy, rank 9 - Highguard of Numenor

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by bohbashum View Post
    it's a focus on healing AND tactical damage. not just healing

    focus doesn't mean only too. I expect the buffs to give everyone something, just more potency on those rolls.

    You're right. Who knows what this will really look like? Should've stuck to my policy about reserving judgement until we can play with the changes and actually know what we're talking about. Lesson reiterated.
    85 LM Berewen, 85 Burg Balculus, 85 Guard Benferth

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightday View Post
    The way the Hands of Healing line seems to work, you can heal your fellowship all you like until the point where you keel over. So essentially, you're gonna need a mini and a cap--cap for the rest of the group, mini just to keep the cap alive. At that point, you may as well just dispense with the cappy altogether.

    I dunno, seems sort of pointless to me. We'll see how it works out.
    Eh, we have morale costs to our heals right now and manage to do just fine.
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  18. #18
    Each line now focuses into one of three archetypes of buffs previously available. Hands of Healing focuses on enhancing the Healing and Tactical Damage of your allies, Lead the Charge focuses on enhancing the Physical Damage of your allies, and Leader of Men focuses on enhancing the Incoming Healing and Critical Defence of your allies.
    So if I'm healing a six man where the other members are all physical classes (any combo of guard, champ, hunter, burg), how does enhancing tactical damage help the group? If I'm the dps in a 3 man with a tank and mini or RK for healing, is buffing the physical damage of the tank going to do much, and if the healer has enough time to do some dps the buff is worthless for them.

    It sounds like buffs are dependent on my role, not on what each character fulfilling the role needs, which is a huge change, and it's not for the better.

    My captain has never been a crit machine, partly because the captain-specific gear is limited in that aspect and the jewelry with crit never dropped for me so I'm curious to see how much crit we can get with a trait. I have a vague unease it will go on the armour, which then makes me think we'll need a separate armour set for each role, but that remains to be seen.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinDragon View Post
    Eh, we have morale costs to our heals right now and manage to do just fine.
    We have a negligible morale cost on our weakest heal, that's hardly the kind of changes they are talking about.
    Hinras, Cappy, rank 9 - Highguard of Numenor

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinDragon View Post
    The interesting thing on this is that a captain tank will get the most tank buffs then, which may actually be enough to encourage some groups to take a captain over guard or warden. Suppose it's gonna depend how much of the rest of tanking got fixed though
    I don't think focus means exactly all the buffs on there.

    "These buffs offer a substantial boost to their primary focus, while having smaller buffs for the other two archetypes."

    so a tanking captain can probably still give crit buff, just not as much as a dps captain. a dps can still give survival buffs, just not as good as tank.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by bohbashum View Post
    I don't think focus means exactly all the buffs on there.

    "These buffs offer a substantial boost to their primary focus, while having smaller buffs for the other two archetypes."

    so a tanking captain can probably still give crit buff, just not as much as a dps captain. a dps can still give survival buffs, just not as good as tank.
    That's what I'm saying though. The captain's strongest defensive buff will go out when he's tanking. When the others are tanking, they'll still get the defensive buff but it won't be as potent because the captain won't be traited yellow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Namesse View Post
    So if I'm healing a six man where the other members are all physical classes (any combo of guard, champ, hunter, burg), how does enhancing tactical damage help the group? If I'm the dps in a 3 man with a tank and mini or RK for healing, is buffing the physical damage of the tank going to do much, and if the healer has enough time to do some dps the buff is worthless for them.

    Everyone gets all three buffs listed. It's just that when you're traited heals, that will be the most potent of the three buffs. Everyone will still get the phys mastery and the defensive buffs as well.
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  22. #22

    Thumbs up

    Wow, this sounds great! The only problem is that I'll have a tough time figuring out which line to trait
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  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by TinDragon View Post

    Everyone gets all three buffs listed. It's just that when you're traited heals, that will be the most potent of the three buffs. Everyone will still get the phys mastery and the defensive buffs as well.
    I'd rather have a viable buff based on the role that I'm doing, not an inconsequential buff because the captain is fulfilling a role that doesn't complement what I need to do.

  24. #24
    Why does each line seem to have a high focus on damage?

    When it states Captains will be able to do strong dps, is this in relation to captains now, to primary dps classes, so sword and board Guard, what?

    As with the burglar diary, this was rather light on specifics, but I'm just not seeing the stated goals of the skill tree changes being achieved, with the possibly exception of HoH self-heals and morale cost (which needs more details).
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  25. #25
    Personally, I would have liked the three paths to have been healing, buff, and damage.

 

 
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