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  1. #1

    Recent Downtime Compensation Completed

    Recent Downtime Compensation Completed



    Hello, everyone! We are writing to let people know that we have completed our work to extend active VIP subscription time by two days, and distributed 250 Turbine Points to Lifetime accounts, as our way to thank people for their patience during technical issues that took place in early September. We thank you for playing LOTRO, and we’ll see you in-game!

    In response to the above post by Cordovan in regards to the September Log-In issues as well as down-time, I applaud that some re-compensation has been given; however, as a Premium Player that has purchased every expansion and every available map in the game and spent well over 20,000 turbine points on various parts of the game both game-related as well as cosmetically for Nine Toons and every Pre-Purchase release of the game since Rise Of Isengard I think that premium players need a little love too!

    Sure I could spend $15 dollars a month for 500 tp, access to the Moars, quick-travel, etc.; but I've bought numerous in-store game cards when they used to be sold at major retailers, as well as more recently using the Lotro Store to purchase them directly. Just because I don't spend that $15 a month doesn't mean I haven't supported this game and continue to support it.

    Without the premium players out there, the VIP players most likely wouldn't even have a game to support as most of the monetary compensation coming in to Turbine/WB is from the premium player base not the subscribers, let alone some guy that bought a pre-purchase of the game back when it first came out and is now considered a lifer because of this and is constantly rewarded with free tp or other perks.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draconfier View Post
    Recent Downtime Compensation Completed



    Hello, everyone! We are writing to let people know that we have completed our work to extend active VIP subscription time by two days, and distributed 250 Turbine Points to Lifetime accounts, as our way to thank people for their patience during technical issues that took place in early September. We thank you for playing LOTRO, and we’ll see you in-game!

    In response to the above post by Cordovan in regards to the September Log-In issues as well as down-time, I applaud that some re-compensation has been given; however, as a Premium Player that has purchased every expansion and every available map in the game and spent well over 20,000 turbine points on various parts of the game both game-related as well as cosmetically for Nine Toons and every Pre-Purchase release of the game since Rise Of Isengard I think that premium players need a little love too!

    Sure I could spend $15 dollars a month for 500 tp, access to the Moars, quick-travel, etc.; but I've bought numerous in-store game cards when they used to be sold at major retailers, as well as more recently using the Lotro Store to purchase them directly. Just because I don't spend that $15 a month doesn't mean I haven't supported this game and continue to support it.

    Without the premium players out there, the VIP players most likely wouldn't even have a game to support as most of the monetary compensation coming in to Turbine/WB is from the premium player base not the subscribers, let alone some guy that bought a pre-purchase of the game back when it first came out and is now considered a lifer because of this and is constantly rewarded with free tp or other perks.
    Lifers didn't buy a pre-purchase of the game--they spent at least $199 for the permanent subscription arrangement. And Turbine has never released data on which group (f2p, premium, vip, lifer) brings in what amount of revenue, so there is no basis for the claim that premiums carry the game. But besides those minor points, I agree--the downtime affected everybody, so my personal opinion is that compensation for major snafus should be awarded to everybody who has logged in during the last month, including premium and f2p. After all, premium and f2p are the players who rely most on access to the game in order to earn tp to keep going, and therefore the most directly affected by the downtime. Active players should be treated equally in these situations.

  3. #3

    Post

    Quote Originally Posted by Whart View Post
    Lifers didn't buy a pre-purchase of the game--they spent at least $199 for the permanent subscription arrangement. And Turbine has never released data on which group (f2p, premium, vip, lifer) brings in what amount of revenue, so there is no basis for the claim that premiums carry the game. But besides those minor points, I agree--the downtime affected everybody, so my personal opinion is that compensation for major snafus should be awarded to everybody who has logged in during the last month, including premium and f2p. After all, premium and f2p are the players who rely most on access to the game in order to earn tp to keep going, and therefore the most directly affected by the downtime. Active players should be treated equally in these situations.
    In effect Lifers did pre-purchase this game however you want to mince words. They took a gamble to support a fledgling company that was going to challenge the behemoth that WOW was and continues to be. They took a risk to buy content that might not exist or they might not like one month to six months down the road. They took the risk to enable LOTRO to raise the necessary capital at that time to pay for expenses that that company needed to run such as expenses, advertising, salaries, and development. They were in effect the initial financial investors in a new company and deserve their continued rewards of 500 free TP per month. But lets break that down if we will.

    April 24, 2007 original release date: September 2010 F2P release. 500tp X 3 Years=18,000. Convert that cost to a VIP and we come up with the amount of approximately $780 equivalent cost for that 78 months of access to the same content and 500tp per month at the reduced yearly cost of $10 per month if you get a 12 month subscription or $1140 dollars if they purchased at the $15 per month cost. For a Premium player to purchase a similar amount of tp would cost approximately $200 at the higest tp purchase amount. Most Premium players don't purchase the highest tier tp model and instead usually spend the $19.99 version which equals to around $239 approximately to get the same amount of tp. So a VIP player from original date has paid the most, the Premium player the next amount, and the Lifetimer the least out of all the paying customers if we don't count expansion purchases or additional Turbine Points beyond this rate. This of course doesn't take into account inflationary costs or the likelihood of a VIP player paying for every month of subscription since the games inception.

    Moving on to the data on LIFER>VIP>Premium>F2P income dynamics.

    According to Superdataresearch.com website the below has occurred in f2p games:

    Did you know that free-to-play MMO gamers in the US spent over $200 million in June 2013?

    The Average U.S. monthly f2p player spent just around $15 dollars in May of 2012, just 5 months later that average had doubled to $31.87.

    On http://simple-n-complex.blogspot.com...ub-strata.html the following data was available which pulled their data from the log-in game time available from X-fire in 2010 and a podcast release from Ten Ton Hammer where Turbine announced their revenue numbers.

    Lord of the Rings Online


    Still our Number 1 game of the X-Fire chart listings on my site. This number proves interesting historically as well. Just last week on the Ten Ton Hammer podcast, Turbine had announced tripling of revenue since going free to play. This helps corroborate some older data too...if the X-Fire Game can be trusted.

    A post from March of 2010 was done playing the X-Fire sub game (SOURCE) which did the calc before LOTRO went free to play. They had 213,689 subs according to the math. Triple that and we get 641k. That is SCARY close to what we have now. The only concern is that maybe not all of these players can be considered monthly due to the Free to play mechanic. But, I am not one to argue with the Karmic like nature of the math here.

    You are right that there isn't any LOTRO specific data on VIP>Premium>F2P, other than the above podcast in 2010 of income being triple what it was prior to the introduction of F2P. However, the data out there supports that overall conversions of MMO's, MMORPG's, On-line games, Android/IOS games, and console game micro-transactions vs. subscriptions have more than doubled and sometimes tripled the amounts that were previously purchased when games were subscription only. To say that LOTRO is any different than the rest of the games out there that have converted from VIP to F2P is a broad-generalization on your own part; and ludicrous in its very statement. Why else do you think so many companies have gone F2P then that their own marketing research supports that the overall income benefits more than outweigh the supposed costs of alienating its original paying subscription base and that micro transactions from in-game as well as card purchases at retail level have the potential to far surpass the amounts paid by a smaller subscription paying customer.

    Additionally I, along with several others that I know, that play Lotro as Premium players have more than matched that original $199 payment Lifers paid when they first pre-purchased Lotro. Some of us have well exceeded that by as much as 5x that amount not even counting the expansions of ROI, ROR, Helms Deep with the highest end Legendary Editions of $80-100 per expansion.

    Before starting to attack an argument make sure you do your own research.

    As a side note I don't support a pure F2P player that has never purchased anything in-game or out of game to support the company getting a free hand out just because they couldn't log in to generate free tp, bogging down servers, complaining on the forums, or anything else that a Lifetimer, VIP, or Premium player has earned by continued monetary support or previous support to this wonderful game.
    Last edited by Draconfier; Sep 19 2013 at 10:03 PM. Reason: Re-calculation of Math:thanks Yula and others for information regarding my original miscalculations.

  4. #4
    "Assuming makes an ### out of u and me".

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Draconfier View Post
    As a side note I don't support a pure F2P player that has never purchased anything in-game or out of game to support the company getting a free hand out just because they couldn't log in to generate free tp, bogging down servers, complaining on the forums, or anything else that a Lifetimer, VIP, or Premium player has earned by continued monetary support or previous support to this wonderful game.
    Riiiight....I'm a Lifetimer (x2) and I have purchased, with actual money, every expansion (again x2). I have made additional TP purchases. I tell you this just to prove your initial assumptions about Lifetimers wrong. The ONLY player base that is actually contributing, in an on-going fashion, to the financial well being of the game is the VIP -- they are paying a monthly subscription. Premium players are players that have previously paid money for something, whether it be a month's subscription, x-pac, or TP bundle. Premium players are essentially f2p while they are in a premium status, i.e., they are NOT paying any money during that time period. They are free-loading as much as the pure f2p player is and are not entitled to any compensation for downtime. Lifetimers have permanent VIP status as part of their willingness to plunk down $199-299 up front.

    To sum it up:

    Lifetime = VIP = gets compensated for downtime
    Premium = f2p = doesn't get compensated for downtime

    If you are a Premium player during the downtime, that's why you don't deserve any compensation.
    I like ice cream.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Feraxks View Post
    Riiiight....I'm a Lifetimer (x2) and I have purchased, with actual money, every expansion (again x2). I have made additional TP purchases. I tell you this just to prove your initial assumptions about Lifetimers wrong. The ONLY player base that is actually contributing, in an on-going fashion, to the financial well being of the game is the VIP -- they are paying a monthly subscription. Premium players are players that have previously paid money for something, whether it be a month's subscription, x-pac, or TP bundle. Premium players are essentially f2p while they are in a premium status, i.e., they are NOT paying any money during that time period. They are free-loading as much as the pure f2p player is and are not entitled to any compensation for downtime. Lifetimers have permanent VIP status as part of their willingness to plunk down $199-299 up front.

    To sum it up:

    Lifetime = VIP = gets compensated for downtime
    Premium = f2p = doesn't get compensated for downtime

    If you are a Premium player during the downtime, that's why you don't deserve any compensation.
    Feraxks,

    Did you even read anything from my post on the amounts I or others like me have purchased, I too have bought every xpac, and encouraged two others to do the same=x3. Premium players, Micro-transactions are what is responsible for the tripling of the game income. I've spent more than enough to be compensated in the same regards as a VIP or Lifetimer. In those two months (August-September) I spent more on tp then what a VIP player did on their subscription. I agree some players that are classified as premium don't currently support or continue to support in the same way as a VIP member, but neither does that Lifetimer if they aren't buying anything either.

    Now you may ask why don't I go VIP. Well it boils down to one thing, I don't value what it has to offer. I spend my money on TP that I can use in game. I own my content for all areas of the game vs. just leasing it; in so far as the game continues to be available. Sure I'd love the quick travel option from point A to point B like what is offered from West-Bree to Michael Delving or Thorin's Hall or Celondim, but having access to the moors as the only other major perk doesn't interest me in the slightest.

  7. #7
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    I saw this thread coming...Attack the Lifer's...must be either AI or one of his drones.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Draconfier View Post
    I agree some players that are classified as premium don't currently support or continue to support in the same way as a VIP member, but neither does that Lifetimer if they aren't buying anything either.
    I did read what you posted. You said in the quote above that you agree "some players that are classified as premium don't currently support...".

    Wrong.

    ALL players that are classified as premium don't currently support the game. If you were a Premium player during the downtime, then you weren't a player supporting the game during the downtime, which makes you the same as a f2p player and are not entitled to compensation. It is as simple as that.

    I don't disagree that a Lifetimer is, monetary-wise, the same as a Premium player. The distinction is that Turbine has equated them to VIP status. Thus one of the less known perks of being a Lifetimer is that we get compensated for downtimes (when Turbine decides to do so).
    I like ice cream.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draconfier View Post
    April 24, 2007 original release date. 500tp X 6 years 6 months =36,300 TP.
    This just here tells me that you have no idea what you're talking about I'm sorry to say.
    How to get help on the Tech Forums and how to contact Turbine

    Please reply to the topic or PM me if a solution I posted works for you: The more data I can gather the better I can help.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by WBS View Post
    This just here tells me that you have no idea what you're talking about I'm sorry to say.
    My thanks for correcting my math, I didn't apparently proof read it well enough to change it from the 72 month equation to 78 monthsx5 for 39,000.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draconfier View Post
    My thanks for correcting my math, I didn't apparently proof read it well enough to change it from the 72 month equation to 78 monthsx5 for 39,000.
    It's not your math in any way.

    It's that you don't know that there were no Turbine Points for years after the game launched.
    How to get help on the Tech Forums and how to contact Turbine

    Please reply to the topic or PM me if a solution I posted works for you: The more data I can gather the better I can help.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Draconfier View Post
    My thanks for correcting my math, I didn't apparently proof read it well enough to change it from the 72 month equation to 78 monthsx5 for 39,000.
    The problem with your math is the wrong start date for earning Turbine Points. The official launch of F2P was September 10, 2010. Which gives 36 months at 500 Turbine Points a month = 18,000 Turbine Points not 39,000.
    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draconfier View Post
    Before starting to attack an argument make sure you do your own research.
    Umm, I didn't attack your argument. I agreed with it. I specifically said that premiums should be compensated for downtime, which was your point, wasn't it?

    I've paid several hundred dollars more than my lifetime subscription purchase to pay cash for expansions and extra TP. But we've all suffered through the endless arguments about which payment type is more valuable to the game, and ultimately those arguments achieve nothing. I personally think that everyone who participates in this community is of equal value. People who haven't spent a dime on the game but who run a great kin or are helpful to new players or host fun events are contributing to the game's success in their own way. People who spend their hard-earned cash on improving their game experience also are contributing to the game in their own way. I simply won't buy into the idea that people with different incomes and different priorities for using their incomes are more important or not.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Whart View Post
    Umm, I didn't attack your argument. I agreed with it. I specifically said that premiums should be compensated for downtime, which was your point, wasn't it?

    I've paid several hundred dollars more than my lifetime subscription purchase to pay cash for expansions and extra TP. But we've all suffered through the endless arguments about which payment type is more valuable to the game, and ultimately those arguments achieve nothing. I personally think that everyone who participates in this community is of equal value. People who haven't spent a dime on the game but who run a great kin or are helpful to new players or host fun events are contributing to the game's success in their own way. People who spend their hard-earned cash on improving their game experience also are contributing to the game in their own way. I simply won't buy into the idea that people with different incomes and different priorities for using their incomes are more important or not.
    My apologies, wasn't specific on that. I appreciate the part about everyone being affected but took exception to the portion on the current market data involving F2P models vs. subscription based games. Thanks.

  15. #15
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    Thanks for calling my attention to this... that put me within 10 TP of the price of the Journeyman Riding Trait... which one of my three dozen or so characters scored for me by finishing up the Farms and Sights of the Shire... then rode back to Michel Delving at +78%!

    And I won't even respond to the Lifer-baiting this time.
    Tuco of the Quick Post

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Draconfier View Post
    Recent Downtime Compensation Completed



    Hello, everyone! We are writing to let people know that we have completed our work to extend active VIP subscription time by two days, and distributed 250 Turbine Points to Lifetime accounts, as our way to thank people for their patience during technical issues that took place in early September. We thank you for playing LOTRO, and we’ll see you in-game!

    In response to the above post by Cordovan in regards to the September Log-In issues as well as down-time, I applaud that some re-compensation has been given; however, as a Premium Player that has purchased every expansion and every available map in the game and spent well over 20,000 turbine points on various parts of the game both game-related as well as cosmetically for Nine Toons and every Pre-Purchase release of the game since Rise Of Isengard I think that premium players need a little love too!

    Sure I could spend $15 dollars a month for 500 tp, access to the Moars, quick-travel, etc.; but I've bought numerous in-store game cards when they used to be sold at major retailers, as well as more recently using the Lotro Store to purchase them directly. Just because I don't spend that $15 a month doesn't mean I haven't supported this game and continue to support it.

    Without the premium players out there, the VIP players most likely wouldn't even have a game to support as most of the monetary compensation coming in to Turbine/WB is from the premium player base not the subscribers, let alone some guy that bought a pre-purchase of the game back when it first came out and is now considered a lifer because of this and is constantly rewarded with free tp or other perks.
    Here is a very simple breakdown to help you understand the reasoning behind premium players not getting points this time. Lifers paid out a large sum to get the game going, showing faith in the company and the future of the game, so they have a guarantee as a reward for that faith. VIPs pay Turbine ahead of time to show that they too, have faith in the company and wish to play and support future expansions. These sums were and are set amounts the company has seen or knows they will see. Premium players have simply bought something once. That's all it took, whether it was an expansion, 500 TP or the ability to level up some crafting. They don't have to spend another dime and they still get to stay as premium. While YOU may have spent a lot on expansions, not every premium player has done the same, so what you did literally means nothing, in regards to this situation. Sounds cruel, but it is a fact. You cannot say "I spent X amount as a premium player" and have it mean anything, because there are no published charts showing that other premiums all did the same, because they all didn't.

    Another issue you're overlooking here is time the server was down. The cheapest rate for a month is the $99 for twelve months breakdown of $8.25 a month. If they gave TP based on that rate for downtime, which is exactly what I'd so if I was running it, you'd get next to nothing as a lifer or VIP. They are much more generous than I am and gave us VIPs a 2 day extension on the month, while giving lifers 250 TP. That is huge, considering the short time the servers were actually down this last time. That's what we get for past and future guaranteed income streams as lifers and VIPs.

    I understand you feel you deserve more based on the money you spent in the past, but if they take that into account, THEN they have to take into account all the extra money the lifers and VIPs have spent, over and above what we were or are asked to pay. I know some lifers who own every horse ever offered, all the expansions and a ton of other extras that their TP would never have covered. By your logic, Turbine would have to give back the seed money the lifers originally paid and that isn't going to happen. I, myself, have bought expansions, horses, extra storage, TP, costume items and even bought TP for a few friends and paid for them to be VIP for a month to get them into the game. I don't want them to get free TP as premium players, either. It doesn't make sense to me.

    I'm sure you've heard "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" and you might think if you complain loud enough you'll get a freebie now and again. I can only speak for myself when I say, if Turbine starts taking this stuff seriously and gives you guys points when you clearly don't deserve them as a group, then my motivation for staying VIP goes away. Logically, if they start giving premium players the same rewards over downtime, that they give VIPs I might as well jump ship and get the free stuff too. Personally, I am glad they aren't subscribing to "welfare mentality" in this instance. You want rewards that paying players get, then become one. Become someone who wants to help guarantee the future of this game, rather than stating a bunch of pseudo facts, predicting the fall of this game because non paying players stop playing...

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Klaarg View Post
    "welfare mentality"

    ???


    As a premium player who bought heaps of TP's, several month's of VIP, every quest pack and every expansion including pre-orders, and this for no less than 3 accounts within my family, I do NOT want to be considered as of less value than a lifetimer, and I do NOT want to be put on the same level as a f2p player (no offence intended towards f2p players), but it is exactly what happened.

  18. #18
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    So, when do we get this 250 points? I haven't received any yet.
    Hey, who stole my sig?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliahnus View Post
    ???


    As a premium player who bought heaps of TP's, several month's of VIP, every quest pack and every expansion including pre-orders, and this for no less than 3 accounts within my family, I do NOT want to be considered as of less value than a lifetimer, and I do NOT want to be put on the same level as a f2p player (no offence intended towards f2p players), and this is exactly what happened.
    It's honestly quite simply VIP's lost 2 days of time they paid for, Lifers lost 2 days they paid for a long time ago. What did a premium member lose ? Unless there is some item you can buy that ticks down while you're logged off(which should absolutely be reimbursed if there is something like that) you really lost nothing you paid for as premium.

    Would it be nice if premiums got something too ? Yep sure.
    Is it unfair they dont ? No not really.
    Nothing here matters.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Thorwyn99 View Post
    Is it unfair they dont ? No not really.

    Thank you for proving my point.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliahnus View Post
    Thank you for proving my point.
    Well then care to elaborate which that you paid for you lost and should be reimbursed for ?
    No matter how turbine voices it, this is in the end a reimbursement for a paid service not rendered.
    Nothing here matters.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliahnus View Post
    ???


    As a premium player who bought heaps of TP's, several month's of VIP, every quest pack and every expansion including pre-orders, and this for no less than 3 accounts within my family, I do NOT want to be considered as of less value than a lifetimer, and I do NOT want to be put on the same level as a f2p player (no offence intended towards f2p players), but it is exactly what happened.
    You are not, but fact is that you didn't lose payed time when the servers stayed down. VIPs payed for being VIP during this time, so did LTA-Players. They made a huge one time payment in order to play as VIP (also) during this time. Since their VIP subscription can't be extended, they are given TPs.
    Premium players have no VIP subscription for this time.
    If at all, those who were premium players during these 2 days should get 2 days VIP more next time they pay for being VIP.

 

 

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