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  1. #51
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    65
    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    i
    Tl;dr. the times 3 or more creeps played well fought against my warden completely backs up my assertion that they should win handily
    Do you even use builders?
    Because if you do - It`s unclear to me how your gambits can be denied by moving in and out of melee range.
    And don`t forget that by doing that a melee-focused group hinders it`s own damage output, which means that less healing is needed.
    Last edited by Olfaran; Oct 03 2013 at 08:56 PM.
    Don't join dangerous cults: Practice safe sects!

  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Olfaran View Post
    Do you even use builders?
    Because if you do - It`s unclear to me how your gambits can be denied by moving in and out of melee range.
    And don`t forget that by doing that a melee-focused group hinders it`s own damage output, which means that less healing is needed.
    you mean masteries? extensively. using them means I'll get a maximum of 1 gambit off every time they come close. if they come in once every 3-5 seconds, i'd be able to maintain 2 heals, with a 3rd up maybe 25% of the time, compare this to the 5 i'd be able to keep up full time, if a reaver/warg just sat in melee, and the nerf in damage the group gets is less significant than the loss in heals i have access to. The only melee heavy group that should really struggle with this is a warg pack, since a warden slow is better than a warg's, so a warden would have to have poor enough movement that the targetted warg could create space through faster turning. a true warg pack is going to space out stuns though, so this should be mitigated to some extent.
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  3. #53
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    65
    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    you mean masteries?
    Yep. I`m from russian server, so something is constantly lost in translation.

    using them means I'll get a maximum of 1 gambit off every time they come close.
    Or 2, if you`re quick with battle-memory, or whatever is it called.
    if they come in once every 3-5 seconds, i'd be able to maintain 2 heals, with a 3rd up maybe 25% of the time
    It`s still comparable with LM self-heals from water. And gives you a plenty of time to run to safety. Even lvl 83 friendly mobs can tip the scales in your favor, elites even more so. Unless it`s a warg pack that gets HOTs/FMs from mobs.
    So, even if you can`t kill them - you can easily deny them a kill.

    Also, killing a good warden requires the level of coordination unmatched even by current t2c 6-man instances.
    Don't join dangerous cults: Practice safe sects!

  4. #54
    Didn't really bother with reading the whole "QQ Wardens are OP", but I know what's been said. I also know what Deso's said, simply because I've seen these QQ Threads a hundred times before. So:
    Deso is right, if you can't kill a Shield Warden with 3-4 creeps, you're doing something wrong. Wargs/BA's can stun, Wargs/Reavers can Disarm... Much more CC than that is available to creeps, but these are enough. It just requires a bit of knowledge about what you're fighting.

    Imo, Shield Wardens don't even form a threat, you can simply ignore them, unless you're solo. But hey, none of you zergbabies are; problem solved. It's the Spear Wardens you need to worry about.
    Feailuve - Aeviternus - Vesanus
    Brandywine

    The important thing about life is the struggle, not the triumph... Said no winner ever.

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    65
    Quote Originally Posted by Giliodor View Post
    If you can't attain a high level of coordination and skill required to defeat a single Shield warden with 3-4 creeps, you're doing something wrong.
    Your post in a nutshell.
    Don't join dangerous cults: Practice safe sects!

  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Olfaran View Post
    Your post in a nutshell.
    Yes, you did that pretty well. Am I not right?
    Feailuve - Aeviternus - Vesanus
    Brandywine

    The important thing about life is the struggle, not the triumph... Said no winner ever.

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    move in and out of melee range, maybe? don't give them a single target to build gambits off of.

    Stance dancing does nothing to address the problems you seem to be having.

    3 wargs, who are easily the weakest class at fighting wardens should be able to eat a shield warden alive, yet this is almost never the case.

    Once DC is off the table, killing a shield warden isn't significantly more difficult than a healing rune-keeper or minstrel, most just can't figure out how to do it, because it involves more than generally mindless button mashing.

    DC in the moors is a game design problem, healing in general in the moors is a game design problem, not being able to use appropriate tactics against a given class is a players problem. Wardens are OP, clueless players are what makes for the majority of the truly silly scenarios, though.
    Let me first say the following, because you seem to expect some kind of recognition by constantly repeating your setup: you want people to recognize your skill? Don't play a warden. Period. Don't give us the whole "oh but I trait this, and my kill/death ratio is that"...we don't care. You play the most broken class in the Moors; skill is a word reserved for those who don't.

    Now going back to the main point of the thread. Am I the only one who thinks the debate has taken a twist into total absurdity? Are people really saying that it's the creep's fault if they can't take a warden 3v1? "It's pretty simple, you just need a group of 3 ranked creeps who know more about the warden than freeps know about all creep classes put together, and have them execute the attack in perfect coordination." Let me repeat this: IT'S A 3V1!!!!

    You know what 3v1s look like when theres 3 freeps and 1 creep? (no matter the classes involved) Press some buttons, oh look, it's dead. You know why? BECAUSE IT'S A 3V1!! And that's the way 3v1s should be!

    Now stop with your absurd arguments about how creeps suck because they don't know enough about the warden, when a warden doesn't need to know #### to roflstomp everything. Also, I'm sure you will find creeps know way more about freep classes than the other way round.
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  8. #58
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Grothum
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    387
    Quote Originally Posted by Birdflies View Post
    Don't play a warden. You play the most broken class in the Moors; skill is a word reserved for those who don't.
    I concur.

    Some people want it easy. Some people are willing to pay for it with $. Some companies, like Turbine, is happy to provide this. Some people down along the line ends up confusing this with having 'skills'. End of story.

    Quote Originally Posted by Birdflies View Post
    Now going back to the main point of the thread. Am I the only one who thinks the debate has taken a twist into total absurdity? Are people really saying that it's the creep's fault if they can't take a warden 3v1? "It's pretty simple, you just need a group of 3 ranked creeps who know more about the warden than freeps know about all creep classes put together, and have them execute the attack in perfect coordination." Let me repeat this: IT'S A 3V1!!!!
    I wholeheartedly agree, but you wont get through to this crowd. This is the 'blob' that see nothing wrong with 6+ creeps not being able to take down 1 freep simply by mashing their 'dps' buttons. I doubt they yet fully aware this is a 'RvR' based 'game', but that's for another time.
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