We have detected that cookies are not enabled on your browser. Please enable cookies to ensure the proper experience.
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 58
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    My Home is the Moors, roaming around .....
    Posts
    421

    Fiar play within the Moors - or NOT

    Below is a ticket i have sent to GM's as well as other channels asking for an explaination regarding fair play within the Moors and how htey think it is somewhat a balanced state of affairs.


    **************
    Dear Sir,

    Please can you tell me how you think the Moors are some what a fair state right now?

    We had a small group of 6 creeps agaisnt a single warden and we spent 15 minutes without killing him at all!!!

    We then tried another freep and the same result - all the freep classes are basically GODS and this is killing the Moors wiith your incompetence and poor attitude in making the Moors a fair battlefield.

    I was a VIP since the very 1st day it went live and I have now cancelled my subs and will not renew at all. Will certainly not purchse HD as there is sweet FA for creeps.

    This is a complaint regarding fair play, poor developement and the poor customer service that you as a company is providing its customers fairly. Everything is in favour of the freeps and nothing in the creeps favour. You have ruined the best part of the game and that is a shame.

    Several very long serving Creeps have left, are leaving and will never return becuse of this imcompetence and very poor balance that will NEVER EVER be close to give fair fights.

    A very unhappy annoyed long serving ex-VIP
    ******************

    All tickets were simply closed and ignored which I find even more infuriating and shows how small minded Turbine are. Creeps and the Moors is not wanted!!
    Last edited by BiteMarks; Sep 17 2013 at 06:42 PM.

  2. #2
    The question is, what are you going to do now? Wardens are OP, I think you'll find most people agree with that even wardens. Honest freeps no they are overpowered in compare to creep classes. Honest players know this has been the case in LOTRO for years. So the question is what are you going to do? You can appeal to the forums, been there myself, when you care it can be gratifying or extremely frustrating. The sad reality is the best possible solution (once you give up on turbine) is to make the most of your time. Identify what it is that you enjoy about the moors and try to create those conditions as much as you possibly can. When you cant, log off and do something else let the warden left with no one to kill figure out why he has no one to pvp against. Now ideally, creeps would get a buff. Wargs would be a little thicker skinned or much higher dps (its a burst class) WL's would get DPS buffs if they trait that way, not the #### dps on shield bash I mean big hits (4k+). That's just two off hand that come to mind, but I have minimal faith in turbine when it comes to their PvP offering so, I defer to the underlined portion of my reply.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    France
    Posts
    749
    Quote Originally Posted by BiteMarks View Post
    All tickets were simply closed and ignored which I find even more infuriating and shows how small minded Turbine are.
    People at support aren't paid to listen to people whining. Valuable lesson here: they don't have to.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Grothum
    Posts
    387
    Quote Originally Posted by Thorgrum View Post
    Identify what it is that you enjoy about the moors and try to create those conditions as much as you possibly can.
    ^This....if possible at all. In my opinion you need to be slightly autistic/massively masochistic to muster that 'singleminded' determination that's required to play full time creep these days. Or at least to be able to have fun in The Moors outside the social aspect. That said, I'm actually having fun in The Moors running around solo. Granted, I'm playing a rvr and can blow up the majority of pies I meet, but that's not really the point. Point is I located a niché in The Moors where I fit in and are able to have some fun and occasionally interesting fights!

    Oh, and I unsub'd of course, some time ago now. That helps tremendously, I highly recommend that. Would love to sub again, but Turbine needs to get their **** together first....but I'm sure they will do just that in HerpsDerp.

    Anyways, moaning at the poor sods at support wont do much, hardly their fault to begin with, they just (try to) do their jobs like the rest of us mongrel slaves of modern society.
    Last edited by poxnoxious; Sep 17 2013 at 10:18 PM. Reason: Because I can!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    285
    Just saying, if 6 creeps couldn't kill 1 warden, at least one of you were mindlessly staying in range to allow them to get gambits off in whatever stance they were in. And if it took 15 minutes, if any of you understood this mechanic you had plenty of time to explain it to whomever was allowing the warden to heal which leads me to believe none of you understood this mechanic which means I have no sympathy for you.

    Yes, they're OP but not as OP as bad players allow them to be.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    France
    Posts
    749
    Quote Originally Posted by Stepbrother View Post
    Just saying, if 6 creeps couldn't kill 1 warden, at least one of you were mindlessly staying in range to allow them to get gambits off in whatever stance they were in. And if it took 15 minutes, if any of you understood this mechanic you had plenty of time to explain it to whomever was allowing the warden to heal which leads me to believe none of you understood this mechanic which means I have no sympathy for you.

    Yes, they're OP but not as OP as bad players allow them to be.
    Yep. I'm no big fan of wardens in the moors, but what irks me most creep side when dealing with one is other creeps who just have *no* idea what's going on and end up helping the warden.

    It's not rocket science too, all you really need to know is that they get 30s of very high mitigations through a skill called 'Defiant Challenge' - swirling spears above their heads, it's hard to miss -, that you shouldn't stun them when they use it (prevents the cooldown from being set - bug, unless it's been fixed recently), and that if they are the healing variety, you shouldn't stay in melee range if you're targeted or they'll spam heal gambits.

    Don't heal them, recognize Defiant Challenge, remember it lasts 30s before their pants are down, and next thing you know, you don't need half a raid to kill a warden.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Sunset Strip
    Posts
    807
    Quote Originally Posted by Equendil View Post
    Yep. I'm no big fan of wardens in the moors
    Mmm, yeah.. I know some people responsible for that.. Mmm

    lol ;P

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Stepbrother View Post
    Yes, they're OP but not as OP as bad players allow them to be.
    If rep still existed, you and equendil would get it, Milty.

    Is the sky falling somewhere?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Equendil View Post
    Yep. I'm no big fan of wardens in the moors, but what irks me most creep side when dealing with one is other creeps who just have *no* idea what's going on and end up helping the warden.

    It's not rocket science too, all you really need to know is that they get 30s of very high mitigations through a skill called 'Defiant Challenge' - swirling spears above their heads, it's hard to miss -, that you shouldn't stun them when they use it (prevents the cooldown from being set - bug, unless it's been fixed recently), and that if they are the healing variety, you shouldn't stay in melee range if you're targeted or they'll spam heal gambits.

    Don't heal them, recognize Defiant Challenge, remember it lasts 30s before their pants are down, and next thing you know, you don't need half a raid to kill a warden.
    This is all well and good but what if the group was melee heavy?

    Not much a melee heavy group can do against a Warden. Even if they have some ranged DPS, a smart Warden can just seek out Creep NPC's to get their heals. The best thing to do sometimes is to just leave them be and walk away, but that is hardly good for PvP now is it?

    They are a broken class, it's been that way for quite a long time now. If Turbine was interested in "fixing them" they certainly would/could have by now.

    Something like; no stance dancing while in combat would have worked nicely.
    "the woods would be very silent if no birds sang except those that sang best" - Henry VanDyke

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by ksjock View Post
    This is all well and good but what if the group was melee heavy?

    Not much a melee heavy group can do against a Warden. Even if they have some ranged DPS, a smart Warden can just seek out Creep NPC's to get their heals. The best thing to do sometimes is to just leave them be and walk away, but that is hardly good for PvP now is it?

    They are a broken class, it's been that way for quite a long time now. If Turbine was interested in "fixing them" they certainly would/could have by now.

    Something like; no stance dancing while in combat would have worked nicely.
    move in and out of melee range, maybe? don't give them a single target to build gambits off of.

    Stance dancing does nothing to address the problems you seem to be having.

    3 wargs, who are easily the weakest class at fighting wardens should be able to eat a shield warden alive, yet this is almost never the case.

    Once DC is off the table, killing a shield warden isn't significantly more difficult than a healing rune-keeper or minstrel, most just can't figure out how to do it, because it involves more than generally mindless button mashing.

    DC in the moors is a game design problem, healing in general in the moors is a game design problem, not being able to use appropriate tactics against a given class is a players problem. Wardens are OP, clueless players are what makes for the majority of the truly silly scenarios, though.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Meldos shed
    Posts
    260
    Quote Originally Posted by BiteMarks View Post
    We had a small group of 6 creeps agaisnt a single warden and we spent 15 minutes without killing him at all!!!
    what 6 creeps? 6 rank0 defilers and warleaders? then he would probly even win
    6 rank6 defilers and warleaders? you'd probly do it still but it will be long fight!
    a normal fellow of little bit of everything. Come on then you did something wrong. I mean then you just don't know how to kill a warden. It takes some minutes to zerg a warden but still it aint that hard.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    I'm too drunk to taste this chicken
    Posts
    1,485
    Quote Originally Posted by BiteMarks View Post
    All tickets were simply closed and ignored which I find even more infuriating and shows how small minded Turbine are. Creeps and the Moors is not wanted!!
    Ugh, that's just ridiculous. That GM should have perma banned that warden on the spot and given your group a glass of warm milk to help calm you all down. What an outrage.

  13. #13
    If 6 of you can't kill 1 Warden then it's your fault not Turbines. Learn to play your classes. All you need is 1 warg, 1 defiler and any 1 or 2 dps classes.

    Flayer root > Blight + Healing curse > dps and he'll burn DC and NS. Kite DC for 30 seconds and then repeat. It shouldn't take more than a min. If you have 6 Reavers just stack up bleeds, disarm, hit 6 impales at once followed by DS and he'll drop like a rock. If you have 6 wargs you can chain fear him for 30 seconds and destroy him. 6 BAs? He should have 0 armour, KD > 6 VT > 6 Revenge gg.

    tl;dr: Wardens are OP, but creeps are fkn stupid as well.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    258
    Quote Originally Posted by Shintagh View Post
    tl;dr: Wardens are OP, but creeps are fkn stupid as well.
    ^This. If only creeps would spend a bit more time trying to get better, instead of crying on the forums..

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Lothlorien
    Posts
    1,686
    Quote Originally Posted by BiteMarks View Post
    Below is a ticket i have sent to GM's as well as other channels asking for an explaination regarding fair play within the Moors and how htey think it is somewhat a balanced state of affairs.


    **************
    Dear Sir,

    Please can you tell me how you think the Moors are some what a fair state right now?

    We had a small group of 6 creeps agaisnt a single warden and we spent 15 minutes without killing him at all!!!

    We then tried another freep and the same result - all the freep classes are basically GODS and this is killing the Moors wiith your incompetence and poor attitude in making the Moors a fair battlefield.

    I was a VIP since the very 1st day it went live and I have now cancelled my subs and will not renew at all. Will certainly not purchse HD as there is sweet FA for creeps.

    This is a complaint regarding fair play, poor developement and the poor customer service that you as a company is providing its customers fairly. Everything is in favour of the freeps and nothing in the creeps favour. You have ruined the best part of the game and that is a shame.

    Several very long serving Creeps have left, are leaving and will never return becuse of this imcompetence and very poor balance that will NEVER EVER be close to give fair fights.

    A very unhappy annoyed long serving ex-VIP
    ******************

    All tickets were simply closed and ignored which I find even more infuriating and shows how small minded Turbine are. Creeps and the Moors is not wanted!!
    I agree with you Bitemarks, that Moors is very ridiculous right now, but what did you really expect the GM's to do to the Warden? Ban him for playing the class that Turbine offered?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shintagh View Post
    but creeps are fkn stupid as well.
    One could say the same about many freeps.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    move in and out of melee range, maybe? don't give them a single target to build gambits off of.

    Stance dancing does nothing to address the problems you seem to be having.

    3 wargs, who are easily the weakest class at fighting wardens should be able to eat a shield warden alive, yet this is almost never the case.

    Once DC is off the table, killing a shield warden isn't significantly more difficult than a healing rune-keeper or minstrel, most just can't figure out how to do it, because it involves more than generally mindless button mashing.

    DC in the moors is a game design problem, healing in general in the moors is a game design problem, not being able to use appropriate tactics against a given class is a players problem. Wardens are OP, clueless players are what makes for the majority of the truly silly scenarios, though.
    You know what I find funny?

    When people say things like; "three well played toons should be able to beat one" (paraphrasing your arguement) and you want to say; it is the players fault they can't kill the warden? I'm sorry, but that's clearly a game design problem right there.

    Now if the Creeps had a class that could cure effects, rather than a single effect pot with a long CD.... If creeps had a class that did that, then I'd agree that it's a player problem.

    Also , i think, a reasonable thing to do would be to assume your Warden was played with the same level of skill that you expect from the three wargs. Assuming this, surely it would be reasonable to expect some CC allowing it to build a gambit or two? At least a slow meaning that; "moving in and out of melee range" is much slower ---> a few more gambits?

    Perhaps they might find a few NPC's? There's plenty of them. I mean if you're looking to play a warden that way you would be silly not to set up near NPC's and wait for the Creeps to come to you?

    A half decent warden might even kill a warg before DC was up, or at the very least have enough DOTs applied so that it bleeds out. Now you're down to two wargs.

    There is any number of things the Warden might do to improve their odds and it's reasonable to expect that a 1/2 way decent Warden would know more than I , with only a lvl 30ish warden, would know.

    Tl;dr. I don't believe that this 'creeps played badly' argument stacks up as well when you assume the same lvl of proficiency from the warden as you do from the Creeps?
    "the woods would be very silent if no birds sang except those that sang best" - Henry VanDyke

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Lothlorien
    Posts
    1,686
    Quote Originally Posted by burzumaz View Post
    ^This. If only creeps would spend a bit more time trying to get better, instead of crying on the forums..
    Quote Originally Posted by ksjock View Post
    You know what I find funny?

    When people say things like; "three well played toons should be able to beat one" (paraphrasing your arguement) and you want to say; it is the players fault they can't kill the warden? I'm sorry, but that's clearly a game design problem right there.

    Now if the Creeps had a class that could cure effects, rather than a single effect pot with a long CD.... If creeps had a class that did that, then I'd agree that it's a player problem.

    Also , i think, a reasonable thing to do would be to assume your Warden was played with the same level of skill that you expect from the three wargs. Assuming this, surely it would be reasonable to expect some CC allowing it to build a gambit or two? At least a slow meaning that; "moving in and out of melee range" is much slower ---> a few more gambits?

    Perhaps they might find a few NPC's? There's plenty of them. I mean if you're looking to play a warden that way you would be silly not to set up near NPC's and wait for the Creeps to come to you?

    A half decent warden might even kill a warg before DC was up, or at the very least have enough DOTs applied so that it bleeds out. Now you're down to two wargs.

    There is any number of things the Warden might do to improve their odds and it's reasonable to expect that a 1/2 way decent Warden would know more than I , with only a lvl 30ish warden, would know.

    Tl;dr. I don't believe that this 'creeps played badly' argument stacks up as well when you assume the same lvl of proficiency from the warden as you do from the Creeps?
    ^This.

    Thank you. +Imaginary Rep for you.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    710
    Omg, i cant believe so many of you fell for this troll thread

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Sunset Strip
    Posts
    807
    OOOOH!!! -just noticed-

    FiarFiarFiarFiarFiarFiarFiarFi arFiarFiarFiarFiarFiarFiarFiar FiarFiarFiarFiarFiarFiarFiarFi arFiarFiarFiarFiarFiarFiarFiar FiarFiarFiarFiarFiarFiarFiarFi arFiarFiarFiarFiarFiarFiarFiar FiarFiar...

    Had to !

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Waterford, Ireland
    Posts
    3,401
    Complaining to the GMs about class balance is like complaining to a part-time workers in McDonald's about the head office.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    France
    Posts
    749
    Quote Originally Posted by Yelloweyedemon View Post
    Mmm, yeah.. I know some people responsible for that.. Mmm

    lol ;P
    Honestly, other than creeps being generally quite helpless in RoI on a 1v1 basis, I've been a lot more annoyed by the 'FOTM' sort of wardens that popped after the revamp, usually shield traited, found in the herd, not particularly good, but blessed with the magic DC button for ####-ups and a strong sense of when it's time to leave other freeps to die behind.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by ksjock View Post
    You know what I find funny?

    When people say things like; "three well played toons should be able to beat one" (paraphrasing your arguement) and you want to say; it is the players fault they can't kill the warden? I'm sorry, but that's clearly a game design problem right there.

    Now if the Creeps had a class that could cure effects, rather than a single effect pot with a long CD.... If creeps had a class that did that, then I'd agree that it's a player problem.

    Also , i think, a reasonable thing to do would be to assume your Warden was played with the same level of skill that you expect from the three wargs. Assuming this, surely it would be reasonable to expect some CC allowing it to build a gambit or two? At least a slow meaning that; "moving in and out of melee range" is much slower ---> a few more gambits?

    Perhaps they might find a few NPC's? There's plenty of them. I mean if you're looking to play a warden that way you would be silly not to set up near NPC's and wait for the Creeps to come to you?

    A half decent warden might even kill a warg before DC was up, or at the very least have enough DOTs applied so that it bleeds out. Now you're down to two wargs.

    There is any number of things the Warden might do to improve their odds and it's reasonable to expect that a 1/2 way decent Warden would know more than I , with only a lvl 30ish warden, would know.

    Tl;dr. I don't believe that this 'creeps played badly' argument stacks up as well when you assume the same lvl of proficiency from the warden as you do from the Creeps?
    it is a game design problem that it does require at least 2, and generally 3 solid creeps to take down a warden who is doing what they can to prevent death. I've stated that in one form or another so many times in the last 2 years it feels rather pointless to continue.

    Gambits take time to build. 3 dps classes should be able to kill a warden faster than they can stack all their bleeds and do a bit more dps to get a kill (contrary to popular belief, a creep with full aud doesn't simply keel over the second the third bleed is applied. This means unlike say a champ whose dps is only slightly hindered by popping a bubble, the warden has lost a more significant amount of time/damage.

    CC is a two way street, wardens have a good slow, an at best 55% (fairly inaccurate number here, since it requires tradeoffs no warden planning to fight 3v1 will accept) chance at a stun on a skill that is otherwise a poor choice, and a chance at a fear whose duration is low enough that it only messes with attacks, not movement. So perhaps when the warden used their slow on one warg, another could tendon shred buying them space? Perhaps they could use objects like trees or rocks to create space?

    How is a warden setting up next to npcs for morale taps any different from say, a burglar setting up next to a cliff for safe fall? Even ignoring that point, warden AoE morale taps are the absolute easiest thing to deny them: chain your CC/silence/disarms, it works a lot better than the fools that space them out.

    A halfway decent warden would kill a warg long before DC was up, if the warg was dumb enough to continue fighting them in that time. Cooldowns beget cooldowns, if you're a warg you have 2 fantastic options to assure you never die if a warden uses DC in a fight.

    Tl;dr. the times 3 or more creeps played well fought against my warden completely backs up my assertion that they should win handily (I'm a spear traited warden, for those not on E as we are). The times I've creeped and fought 3v1 against Term (solos traited shield, runs assailment in pve gear and swaps to full mits/aud when targetted, perfectly willing to blow cooldowns and spam heal while retreating to npcs/1-shots given the opportunity) my assertion holds true as well.

    I get kills quite frequently in 3v1s with and without DC, but there is almost no situation where I've done so where i couldn't look back on the fight and seen numerous occasions where the creeps could have played better and denied me any kills. Creeps have the short end of the stick for the majority of this expansion, that is quite obvious. Many terrible freeps are running around thinking they aren't because of how ignorant they are to how skewed things are in their favor. But just as many terrible creeps are running around QQ-ing over unbeatable God-mode freeps when they know nothing more than mashing dps skills against the the person they were told to, and standing on top of some dude with a symbol over their head. If thats what those people enjoy, great, continue on if that makes you happy. If remaining ignorant about how to fight other classes causes you to lose fights you should win, and that is upsetting to you, perhaps you should look at your own approach in the moors. Not directed at you ksjock, btw.
    Last edited by spelunker; Sep 19 2013 at 03:23 PM.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    France
    Posts
    749
    Quote Originally Posted by ksjock View Post
    You know what I find funny?

    When people say things like; "three well played toons should be able to beat one" (paraphrasing your arguement) and you want to say; it is the players fault they can't kill the warden? I'm sorry, but that's clearly a game design problem right there.
    Yes, but "six toons weren't able to beat one" is also just as clearly not *just* a game design problem.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Zagreb, Croatia
    Posts
    1,025
    Omg i have never read so many stupid pro-warden arguments.... No class in the game comes close to the warden god mode class.. Did someone at one point compare them to Rks in any way?... Heres a slap in the face for you (slap!!)......

    Doesnt matter where you look.. You will find wardens soloing whole 3 man instances with a single pull of 40-50 mobs, you can see wardens soloing Skraids.. Taking on 6 plus creeps... And someone has the nerve to defend them?.. No other class can do what they can... Some groups cant do what they can...

    Wardens are past the point of FOTM.. They are so off the chart they are actually breaking the game not only in pvp... Turbine messed things up so bad with the wardens that you have raid leaders and other players trying to fix the balance by willingly choosing to handicap their group by refusing to play with shield wardens...
    Can you imagine that in any other game? If you want to play with others you are forbidden to freely make the choice of a trait line and how you will play......
    Last edited by zagreb000; Sep 19 2013 at 03:48 PM.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    MD, USA
    Posts
    2,422
    Assuming equally skilled players, a shield warden can, give enough time, win a 6+v1 (assuming the creeps have little or no healing).

    There is no excuse. I have no idea why a warden states he runs spear in these discussions. Is it effort to lessen the level of ridiculousness by saying "I could be more OP so be happy that I'm spear traited"?

    I've read threads about how wardens have no "burst" DPS, which may or may not be true, its a point definitely worth debating. They most definitely have respectable DPS though. They have unmatched, BY FAR, survivability. No other class freepside is even remotely close. Champs may be for a few moments that's about it. You don't need "burst" DPS if you know you are going to out last your opponents in every fight. Given enough time you...will....win...if you chose to no matter what.

    In 1v1s or 2v1s a champ, an LM, or a Mini are OP, but once a break point is reach (3v1s?) they go down and go down fast. Wardens break point may be as high as 6-8v1....

    IF creeps had a warden'esk class, the rivers of tears flowing from freepside would make all of us start looking for a large boat filled with two of every kind.

 

 
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload