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  1. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by ChromiteSwiftpaw View Post
    What happened to Erika "DEViled_Egg" Ng?


    She posted in the Guardian forum on Jan 27th, 2013

    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...-Hey-Everybody!

    Saying she was our new dev and was never seen in the thread again. Now we have yet another new one?
    Hey, at least your class got a developer and feedback thread.

    Minstrels (and a few other classes) still haven't heard a peep from anyone at Turbine or had a feedback thread in the past 8 months.

  2. #27
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    Exclamation

    I have concerns about watering down threat management as well. That was what was actually interesting about playing a Guardian. You really have to think about what skills you are using at what time and take into account the group makeup and what other people (especially in PUGs) are likely to do that might cause a mob or boss to be pulled off you. You had to anticipate the ebb and flow of combat across an encounter and how that could be managed so that threat stays on you, and if it didn't, the fastest and most effective way to bring it back on yourself. While I think that some revamping of Keen Blade are welcome (I will admit I'm tired of soloing and taking FOREVER to kill a mob, while my wife playing a Minstrel can nuke stuff in 1/4 the time), I'm not sure how the Fighter of Shadow will pan out, at least for me it seems like that tree might be wholly untouched. The idea of bleeds and other cash outs seem pretty interesting though
    [COLOR=cornflowerblue][/COLOR]

  3. #28
    I am curious again it sounds like stances are being replaced by trees, but doesn't out right say it this time. Are stances going away for all classes to be replaced by trees or just for some?
    Welleg , Kelleg, and Gelleg - Crickhollow
    WARNING: leveling a warden may cause you to neglect your other characters.

  4. #29
    First up, LOL @ ANOTHER guard dev, they just don't seem to stick around.

    My biggest problem with the dev diary is this: the idea of 'Threat Tree' and 'Tanking Tree'. Lets be very clear (and I intend no disrespect) THREAT and TANKING are inextricably linked together. You can't be a Tank class without threat, so having those as parallel ideas is just ridiculous. Blue line was NOT a 'threat' line it was an AoE tanking line (most of the skills dealt with threat, true, but that is what made an AoE tank a TANK) and Yellow was not a 'tank' line it was a single target survivability line. It really feels like this dev has completely misunderstood what makes a guard a guard. Talking about "...charging headlong into battle, covered in plate, and swinging a giant axe..." to me says champ, and not guard. I like charging headlong into battle with my giant SHIELD defending my friends while they swing giant axes at things.

    Mindless threat is just a deal breaker for me. I mean seriously he mentioned 'active survivability' but mentioned ZERO additional survivability skills. Does this mean things are actually going to start hitting harder (and thus making survivability actually matter)? Outside of a 'Fortifaction' buff, which who knows how that is obtained, what other survivability are we going to have to work on? I mean do I just spam Guards Ward for my rotation now or what? Also, give another Burg mark seems totally like a guardian 'thing'.

  5. #30
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    Add me to the list of people very interested in more info on the mentioned threat changes in this diary.

    Also, I think folks are jumping the gun on a couple of statements in this.

    When it mentions "adding light damage", it doesn't necessarily mean light as a damage type (like Westernesse or Beleriand); it might well mean 'light' in the sense of minor.

    When it says "future ease of threat management", I don't think we can jump to the conclusion that threat management will necessarily become automatic or not require any skill/understanding of the class/3pik l33tness.
    solien
    armor-plated since SoA alpha 3
    arkenstone: roxxi manor

  6. #31
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    I find these changes amazingly positive.. If one thing is clear Guardians will no longer be a "basic" class... And i find that thrilling..

    Two things for me are still an unknown... Threat management and the "fighter of shadow" tree...
    How will we deal with threat? And the specifics of the last tree are still a mystery...

    The changes to keen blade, especially the choice between bleeds and higher dps sound really good.. The choices you make will distinct the good guards from the bad pretty easily not only in this tree..
    In the defender of the free i need more threat talk to be honest but the buff approach and yet more choices (damn i love choices ) are quite interesting...

    After more then 3 years of neglect and that godawful guard dev this is a breath of fresh air...

    Ofc we cant be sure how well all this will work on release date but simply the approach, instead of just rehashing the same old, show me the enthusiasm of our new dev... I find that reassuring..

    EDIT: "survivability-based playstyle to compensate for the future ease of threat management" I think we really need more clarification on this.. .. Thats the only problem i have with the diary..
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  7. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Enfiladed View Post
    First up, LOL @ ANOTHER guard dev, they just don't seem to stick around.

    My biggest problem with the dev diary is this: the idea of 'Threat Tree' and 'Tanking Tree'. Lets be very clear (and I intend no disrespect) THREAT and TANKING are inextricably linked together. You can't be a Tank class without threat, so having those as parallel ideas is just ridiculous. Blue line was NOT a 'threat' line it was an AoE tanking line (most of the skills dealt with threat, true, but that is what made an AoE tank a TANK) and Yellow was not a 'tank' line it was a single target survivability line. It really feels like this dev has completely misunderstood what makes a guard a guard. Talking about "...charging headlong into battle, covered in plate, and swinging a giant axe..." to me says champ, and not guard. I like charging headlong into battle with my giant SHIELD defending my friends while they swing giant axes at things.

    Mindless threat is just a deal breaker for me. I mean seriously he mentioned 'active survivability' but mentioned ZERO additional survivability skills. Does this mean things are actually going to start hitting harder (and thus making survivability actually matter)? Outside of a 'Fortifaction' buff, which who knows how that is obtained, what other survivability are we going to have to work on? I mean do I just spam Guards Ward for my rotation now or what? Also, give another Burg mark seems totally like a guardian 'thing'.
    + rep.

    I have said this before, but I will say it again: I have tried my very best to remain positive in the face of these new changes, but the more I learn, the worse it sounds. Threat in WoW got demolished and it sounds like that will happen here too, where once the tank has aggro, it is basically impossible to lose it. I love being a Guardian because I enjoy maintaining threat on stuff and having people tell me I did a good job. If I won't have to work for threat anymore, there's really not much of a good job to do. Actively mitigating is ok I guess, if you're a Warden.

  8. #33
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    Sounds like some interesting game mechanics for each line.

    Looking forward to hearing more about the threat changes.

    -Bel
    Belnavar - Captain - 105 - Brandywine - Leader of Keepers of the Palantiri

  9. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by zagreb000 View Post
    I find these changes amazingly positive.. If one thing is clear Guardians will no longer be a "basic" class... And i find that thrilling..

    Two things for me are still an unknown... Threat management and the "fighter of shadow" tree...
    How will we deal with threat? And the specifics of the last tree are still a mystery...

    The changes to keen blade, especially the choice between bleeds and higher dps sound really good.. The choices you make will distinct the good guards from the bad pretty easily not only in this tree..
    In the defender of the free i need more threat talk to be honest but the buff approach and yet more choices (damn i love choices ) are quite interesting...

    After more then 3 years of neglect and that godawful guard dev this is a breath of fresh air...

    Ofc we cant be sure how well all this will work on release date but simply the approach, instead of just rehashing the same old, show me the enthusiasm of our new dev... I find that reassuring..
    Are you not a little bit concerned that our new Guardian Dev tried to revamp the trees and failed and had to re-do them all? Does that not seem to indicate to you that this Dev has no idea about Guardians?

  10. #35
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    The Keen Blade

    So for all of you returning players, you probably recognize the name of this tree as being the Guardians’ former DPS trait set.
    had to comment.
    if this was dps, then i really pity the other guardian "trees"
    Last edited by Sidlamel; Sep 18 2013 at 04:05 PM.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrimbleGrumble View Post
    Are you not a little bit concerned that our new Guardian Dev tried to revamp the trees and failed and had to re-do them all? Does that not seem to indicate to you that this Dev has no idea about Guardians?
    I dont have a problem with it at all. I have serious doubts that every single idea that the other devs that have posted have worked exactly as they thought they would. This dev was just being honest with us.
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  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrimbleGrumble View Post
    Are you not a little bit concerned that our new Guardian Dev tried to revamp the trees and failed and had to re-do them all? Does that not seem to indicate to you that this Dev has no idea about Guardians?
    Did he fail? Does it say in the dev diary:"sry i couldnt do it"... Everything he said was spot on.. Keen blade needed change to differentiate us from champs.. This was passed around the forums for years.. Defender of the free is being refreshed and added some complexity.. (threat management is still unknown as i said)... And that third tree is always a problem which i think he delt with well... But we will see...

    I dont think you appreciate the honesty... And i think it took some balls to say: "it didnt work the first time around, but then i worked harder".... Didnt see that in other dev diaries...
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  13. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by zagreb000 View Post
    Did he fail? Does it say in the dev diary:"sry i couldnt do it"... Everything he said was spot on.. Keen blade needed change to differentiate us from champs.. This was passed around the forums for years.. Defender of the free is being refreshed and added some complexity.. (threat management is still unknown as i said)... And that third tree is always a problem which i think he delt with well... But we will see...

    I dont think you appreciate the honesty... And i think it took some balls to say: "it didnt work the first time around, but then i worked harder".... Didnt see that in other dev diaries...
    Oh I appreciate the honesty. And honestly, this Dev never asked for any input on the Guardian forum, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised. I don't see any indication to support your claim of "added complexity." Honestly.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleepwing View Post
    christ. had to comment.
    if this was dps, then i really pity the other guardian "trees"
    Well, it is the Guardian's DPS line, regardless of how bad it is now. From the sounds of things, it is going to finally be viable DPS in Helm's Deep.

    -Bel
    Belnavar - Captain - 105 - Brandywine - Leader of Keepers of the Palantiri

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belnavar View Post
    Well, it is the Guardian's DPS line, regardless of how bad it is now. From the sounds of things, it is going to finally be viable DPS in Helm's Deep.

    -Bel
    one mustn't give up hope, lol

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrimbleGrumble View Post
    Are you not a little bit concerned that our new Guardian Dev tried to revamp the trees and failed and had to re-do them all? Does that not seem to indicate to you that this Dev has no idea about Guardians?
    Sorry, but that is ridiculous. It shows the dev tried one thing, but didn't think it worked, and tried something else. That's what development is all about. If the dev stuck with the first idea and implementation without attempting to improve it, I'd be worried. I am sure the situation is likely the same for many other devs and the work they've been assigned.

    -Bel
    Belnavar - Captain - 105 - Brandywine - Leader of Keepers of the Palantiri

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrimbleGrumble View Post
    Oh I appreciate the honesty. And honestly, this Dev never asked for any input on the Guardian forum, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised. I don't see any indication to support your claim of "added complexity." Honestly.
    Hmm,ok.. Lets put it simply... You had A and he tried to keep A as is... Then he added B to A... Now you have A+B... Thats what i mean when i say added complexity... Ofc i assume and hope they didnt dumb down threat management ...

    I can assure you that there is no need to ask for input... There is pages and pages of input on the guardian state which im pretty sure he read... (the remark about guard dps)... Dont think any dev is stupid enough to not read what players have to say about the class he is working on for them..
    I think even Sapience said devs read the forums more then we think even though they dont comment....
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  18. #43
    Light dmg, makes me think we will play more like Glorfindel. Should be fun.
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  19. #44
    I'm not trying to be "that guy," but I see several indications that Guardian is changing a whole lot, and that worries me. I am trying not to suggest that the sky is falling, but this mention of how "many of us know" about threat revamps is a bit scary, when I haven't read anything specific about that.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrimbleGrumble View Post
    I'm not trying to be "that guy," but I see several indications that Guardian is changing a whole lot, and that worries me. I am trying not to suggest that the sky is falling, but this mention of how "many of us know" about threat revamps is a bit scary, when I haven't read anything specific about that.
    So you dont like change.... I for one am thrilled that is happening...
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  21. I'd love more information especially on these threat changes (first I heard of them).
    I hope it isn't too major and going to automate threat since threat management is what makes Guards stand out and is what makes them interesting to play.
    Without threat management you have the most uninteresting class in the game.
    I'm hoping these changes to threat are more minor maybe just a bit transparency so it's easier to tell when where we're at when building aggro and the ability to better drop aggro for Guards.
    The Lone Wolf
    Radspakr 85 Guardian,Haluilas 82 LM, Varri 65 Champ

  22. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by zagreb000 View Post
    So you dont like change.... I for one am thrilled that is happening...
    You misunderstand. I don't mind change. I change my underwear almost every day. But I don't put on a worse pair than I was already wearing.

    I don't want to see the game dumbed-down to where threat management is irrelevant. I'm sorry that you disagree, but that doesn't mean you can make sweeping generalizations about what I like and don't like.

  23. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Tirian-Hammerfist View Post
    I'd imagine it would just be one bleed icon (per character) which stands for all 10 bleeds.
    Maybe, maybe not. Regardless, in our kin's experience there is a definite performance problem when effects stack up on a mob, and in general it seems there will be even more effects being applied come HD.
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  24. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by zagreb000 View Post
    lots of different quotes


    You make a lot of assumptions.
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  25. #50
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    While still only a summation, the candor and general prose of the diary made it a nice read.
    As mentioned earlier, this was probably my toughest tree to design as, given the revamp to threat and the transition of tanking to the Defender of the Free, I did not really have a solid starting point. Initially, I had felt that this tree might serve as a decent ‘middle of the line’ tree, focusing equally on offense and defense. After having done my initial implementation, however, I was not pleased with the result, and felt that players would really only dip into this tree to supplement one of the others. The playstyle was not distinct, and Guardian was left feeling like a watered-down version of both other trees combined. So, as was my tendency with the other two lines, I took it in another direction.
    Note to dev's, this is the type of talk players I think will really gravitate too. Nice read, don't think I will be dusting off the guardian anytime soon but a nice presentation.


 

 
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