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  1. #1

    Farming Sambrog "Spammy exploit"

    Hello. To my experience the barrow downs instance with Sambrog is being overly farmed. I see lff messages to Sambrog all over the place. It is ridiculous because it inhibits people from doing a more varied distribution of instances. This is due to unbalanced loot tables versus accessability or difficulty or time requirement to do the instance, I don't know the exact factor. I am sure people could fill in the details what particular factors make it stand out as a prime "farming object".

    This type of behaviour has to stop. Arguments like "but everyone has a will to chose to do any instance they want, they do not have to do Sambrog" is not an argument I find relevant because: The fact stands that it is inhibiting variety (see above) making the other, perhaps more interesting instances neglected and wasted. In order to run a less frequently run instance you are in need of a focused group, specialized in other purposes than those fullfilled by the Sambrog instance. Which can be hard for the people in smaller kins or those whithout kins or those who find it fun to run pickup groups.

    I am going to generalize here, beyond the Sambrog instance, because any instance can take it place given the right properties. I believe it is a design fault that is important to consider, albeit it is not easy to fix given that people are clever in finding the most optimal way of receiving rewards. In any case, tweaks should be done more frequently or faster to those instances that seem to get overly a lot of attention so other instances get to see more light.

    I hope to see more varied LFF messages in the future due to a more balanced set of instances. Perhaps with HD
    Last edited by Andala_Kanthos; Sep 18 2013 at 02:53 PM.

  2. #2
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    The problem is, someone will always find the path which gives the greatest reward with the least effort. We're gamers here. It's inevitable that someone will game the game. Once that path of least resistance is found, everyone will jump on the bandwagon, either because they were also looking for the easiest path or because they can't find enough people to run anything else. The only way to prevent this would be to reinstitute locks on content at which time players will scream bloody murder.

    My suggestion would be to make two possible ways of unlocking an instance after completion, completing x number of other instances OR passage of y amount of time (usually 24 hours). That would allow people that really want to run a select few instances to do that, but would also allow casual players to rerun the same instance once a day if they didn't have time to run, say 6 or 8 other instances before repeating one. It's not a perfect solution but it would spread the runs out a bit (although it might only spread it as far as the quickest series of instances) and should keep the screaming to a dull roar.

    Another possible solution would be to create loot items that have to be combined with other instances' loot items to turn in for some barter item. Unfortunately, that would have to be fairly complex to guarantee that people would run more than two or three instances for the best combinations. Perhaps rotate which items drop from which instance so that "the best" combinations of instances would change from day to day.

    A third option would be to randomly select an instance or two on a daily basis and grant a small chance for the selected instance to drop a high value reward for that day. Then advertise the day's chosen instance both in the login screen and perhaps with the town criers "explorers find cache of treasure in _name_of_instance_location", etc.

    Obviously there are other ways to motivate the players to run more varied content, those are just a few possible (and not necessarily well thought out, they were just off the cuff) solutions to show that it is possible.
    Last edited by Garan; Sep 16 2013 at 12:55 PM.

  3. #3
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    People will run whatever gives the most reward (seals or whatever) for their time. So you can't just change Sambrog to make it harder, or shut it down, because then everyone will just switch to farming whatever is the next easiest instance. Probably OE or school/library if my server's glff is any indicator.

    The simplest way would be to go to a daily loot model. Run any instance as much as you want, but you can only loot the chests once per day. Which would be fine with me but not with many other people. Beyond that, it gets complicated.

    Bottom line, if you want to run an obscure instance, just keep advertising. You'll get there eventually. People will still need those deeds or specific loot or whatever.

  4. #4
    Turbine time gated instances at one time. If I remember right, they reset either once or twice weekly. Perhaps this concept should be re-visited.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Redstar View Post
    Turbine time gated instances at one time. If I remember right, they reset either once or twice weekly. Perhaps this concept should be re-visited.
    Something I have already strongly endorsed is that you should get rewards for challenge completion of any instance only once per day.
    105s: Aedfrith (HN), Aldnoth (CP), Brai (RK), Hrolfdan (MN), Aeldfryd (WD), Morriarty (CH), Aednoth (LM), Mishhar (BR), Hraldan (GR), Rummbold (BG). Tinies - Rumbelina (MN), Aenghus (CP)
    Rangers of Eriador (officer), ex-Snowbourn now Laurelin - A Noob for All Seasons

  6. #6
    Don't know what's the excuse on other servers,
    but I've found Sammy is the easiest way to get seals.
    Everyone wants seals for their FA's and gear.
    If they want to get variety going WITHOUT locking
    anything permanently, just give the game another
    counter (as there are many already).
    Run Sammy once and you will not get loot/seals
    until you've run at least 3 (or 4 or 5 or whatever)
    unrelated instances.

    edit: Must admit, Sammy is ridiculously easy...
    I suck as a healer, but even I can keep 5 hunters alive XD
    Maybe upping the difficulty can make the instance
    fun again AND disperse the crowd a bit...

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by EvAmy View Post
    edit: Must admit, Sammy is ridiculously easy...
    I suck as a healer, but even I can keep 5 hunters alive XD
    Sambrog is a DPS race. Going in with 5 hunters is "ezmode", as the kids say. If you want excitement, try winning Challenge with 5 characters with low damage output.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Vexendynamus View Post
    Sambrog is a DPS race. Going in with 5 hunters is "ezmode", as the kids say. If you want excitement, try winning Challenge with 5 characters with low damage output.
    There is no combination of toons that can't complete Sambrog challenge at level 85, sure having 6 cappies would take a bit longer than most combinations, but every combination would get through. The most fun one would be 6 champs.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vexendynamus View Post
    Sambrog is a DPS race. Going in with 5 hunters is "ezmode", as the kids say. If you want excitement, try winning Challenge with 5 characters with low damage output.
    Or duo sammy as my partner and I do. We like doing it for the challenge not for speed. (With challenge).
    I use my lm or ws mini or rk or champ and he uses warden. (lm/warden combo the best we find)

    If we want speed, minimal challenge but still get seals, we do school or lib in 10 min. Halls of night takes us a little longer. All with challenge.

    Not much is going on lately at aussie night time and we need something to break up deeding. we found these 4 instances keep us occupied when friends are not on.
    Last edited by woodwren; Sep 23 2013 at 06:23 PM.

  10. #10
    I work full-time and have limited leisure time. Sambrog is ideal for me as it can be done in 10 mins, is a guaranteed victory, and gives a good amount of meds and seals. If Sambrog was not how it is at the moment, I'd have to grind skirms solo, which I find incredibly dull and boring. Sambrog is ideal group content for people who want to grind meds and if it was changed it would impact the game negatively for me. I simply do not have the time to do mega long raids, where people drop constantly because it is getting late where they are etc. Long raids are probably just too long for many players who perhaps can not commit above an hour uninterrupted to the game. I also do not enjoy difficult content to be honest as I have very poor motor skills and get raynards in the winter which further exacerbates it. I am however all for harder/longer content with good reawards for the people who want it, but not at the expense of the people who don't.
    Last edited by Ellieni; Sep 16 2013 at 01:53 PM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by sting-sethkan View Post
    Why worry about other people an how they play. Play the game the way you want and let them do the same. Everyone is paying one way or another to play so let each chose their own way to do it.
    You are right, of course. The game creates the environment that the players take advantage of. The game creators are the prime target of my post. For example, you lff for a particular instance, that is your decision. I want to alter the way you decide the instance you want to do so it be more varied. I do not want to force anyone to do a more varied set of instances just for the sake of variety, that is not my point.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jillymala View Post
    Sorry but why blame the players for grinding seals to get gear? Blame the makers of the grind.
    Yep, I am looking for ideas from the community that the game developers can take advantage of so they can create an environment that makes for more varied lff messages DUE TO GAME CHANGES, not forcing players to do this and that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Macroscian View Post
    Hi! I've been after a certain item. 400 runs of Sambrog later, I still do not have it. I will continue to run the instance.

    Why does it have to stop?

    EDIT Here is a list of potential loot, if you feel like checking what you could use/need and perhaps run a few Sammies yourself.
    http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Great_Barrow:_Sambrog
    If you are after a particular loot item, 400 runs of a single instance is not the greatest way the game offers loot to you. You are determined to get your loot, that is good. If you were encouraged (through game design) to do a more varied set of instances it would make me happy!

    Quote Originally Posted by Viniel View Post
    As long as the instances are static, people will farm the one that is easiest and fastest.
    A solution I proposed about a year ago involves some coding, but not a lot, on the part of Turbine. Essentially if an instance gets run a lot compared to others, it starts dropping less loot, marks, and medallions. Other, less frequently run instances start dropping more. Have limiters on it, say, 50% normal and 200% normal. Occasional human review to be sure things are not getting out of whack and revise what normal means on an occasional basis. Within a very short period of time, most instances will be run fairly equally.

    I think this gets what the OP wants, which I think is more instance diversity.

    Maybe someday Turbine can try this.
    Yep suggestions like this is what I am looking for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Garan View Post
    The problem is, someone will always find the path which gives the greatest reward with the least effort. We're gamers here. It's inevitable that someone will game the game. Once that path of least resistance is found, everyone will jump on the bandwagon, either because they were also looking for the easiest path or because they can't find enough people to run anything else. The only way to prevent this would be to reinstitute locks on content at which time players will scream bloody murder.

    My suggestion would be to make two possible ways of unlocking an instance after completion, completing x number of other instances OR passage of y amount of time (usually 24 hours). That would allow people that really want to run a select few instances to do that, but would also allow casual players to rerun the same instance once a day if they didn't have time to run, say 6 or 8 other instances before repeating one. It's not a perfect solution but it would spread the runs out a bit (although it might only spread it as far as the quickest series of instances) and should keep the screaming to a dull roar.

    Another possible solution would be to create loot items that have to be combined with other instances' loot items to turn in for some barter item. Unfortunately, that would have to be fairly complex to guarantee that people would run more than two or three instances for the best combinations. Perhaps rotate which items drop from which instance so that "the best" combinations of instances would change from day to day.

    A third option would be to randomly select an instance or two on a daily basis and grant a small chance for the selected instance to drop a high value reward for that day. Then advertise the day's chosen instance both in the login screen and perhaps with the town criers "explorers find cache of treasure in _name_of_instance_location", etc.

    Obviously there are other ways to motivate the players to run more varied content, those are just a few possible (and not necessarily well thought out, they were just off the cuff) solutions to show that it is possible.
    Great suggestions and thoughts. I don't want to murder anyone just pushing them gently in a direction that the game takes us. I really believe something can be done through the use some well thought out suggestion such as Garan's.

  12. #12
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    TS, no solution is needed because there is no actual problem.

    The problem is in your head. If you want to run specific instances then start advertising for them in glff.
    I was just on brandywine last night and people were running Annuminus, and many 3-man's. I didn't see any Sammy.

    There is already incentives in place to encourage players to run each different instance. Sorry but this thread about Sammy has no truck.

  13. #13
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    sob sob
    what happened to: yes. let's play this and this instance because noone hardly ever does it and it's long and we may die, but let's just do it! wahey

    sambrog is like lol.
    even if it gives rewards or whatever, how do people not get bored with doing some #### over and over and over (same with farm, slayer deeds-
    takes ages to do slayer deeds cause how does this repetitiveness unwind and relax)
    each to own i suppose
    but the each to sambrog is majority

  14. #14
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    LOTRO isn't about fun, it's about feeding our addiction. Stop whining and start grinding.
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  15. #15
    Playing Sambrog is not exploiting the game.

    It's a short level and you're not even likely to get anything that good. The gold pockets are very nice but that's pretty much it. The REAL problem is that the other instances in the game have horrible loot ratios, and they take twice or three times as long as Sambrog.

    Unfortunately for you and me, Turbine is not going to change a thing. They don't need to nerf sambrog. They need to improve the loot drops everywhere else. This is good news for Sambrog but that's pretty much it :\
    Can I has fixed Fornost and ITA lootboxes?

  16. #16
    Even if like 5000x people signed this topic and it was a huge petition on the LOTRO forums, they're not going to fix the loot.

    Welcome to LOTRO.
    Can I has fixed Fornost and ITA lootboxes?

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Andala_Kanthos View Post
    Hello. To my experience the barrow downs instance with Sambrog is being overly farmed. I see lff messages to Sambrog all over the place. It is ridiculous because it inhibits people from doing a more varied distribution of instances. This is due to unbalanced loot tables versus accessability or difficulty or time requirement to do the instance, I don't know the exact factor. I am sure people could fill in the details what particular factors make it stand out as a prime "farming object".

    This type of behaviour has to stop. Arguments like "but everyone has a will to chose to do any instance they want, they do not have to do Sambrog" is not a valid argument because: The fact stands that it is inhibiting variety (see above) making the other, perhaps more interesting instances neglected and wasted. In order to run a less frequently run instance you are in need of a focused group, specialized in other purposes than those fullfilled by the Sambrog instance. Which can be hard for the people in smaller kins or those whithout kins or those who find it fun to run pickup groups.

    I am going to generalize here, beyond the Sambrog instance, because any instance can take it place given the right properties. I believe it is a design fault that is important to consider, albeit it is not easy to fix given that people are clever in finding the most optimal way of receiving rewards. In any case, tweaks should be done more frequently or faster to those instances that seem to get overly a lot of attention so other instances get to see more light.

    I hope to see more varied LFF messages in the future due to a more balanced set of instances. Perhaps with HD


    Sorry but why blame the players for grinding seals to get gear? Blame the makers of the grind.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andala_Kanthos View Post
    Hello. To my experience the barrow downs instance with Sambrog is being overly farmed. I see lff messages to Sambrog all over the place. It is ridiculous because it inhibits people from doing a more varied distribution of instances. This is due to unbalanced loot tables versus accessability or difficulty or time requirement to do the instance, I don't know the exact factor. I am sure people could fill in the details what particular factors make it stand out as a prime "farming object".

    This type of behaviour has to stop. Arguments like "but everyone has a will to chose to do any instance they want, they do not have to do Sambrog" is not a valid argument because: The fact stands that it is inhibiting variety (see above) making the other, perhaps more interesting instances neglected and wasted. In order to run a less frequently run instance you are in need of a focused group, specialized in other purposes than those fullfilled by the Sambrog instance. Which can be hard for the people in smaller kins or those whithout kins or those who find it fun to run pickup groups.

    I am going to generalize here, beyond the Sambrog instance, because any instance can take it place given the right properties. I believe it is a design fault that is important to consider, albeit it is not easy to fix given that people are clever in finding the most optimal way of receiving rewards. In any case, tweaks should be done more frequently or faster to those instances that seem to get overly a lot of attention so other instances get to see more light.

    I hope to see more varied LFF messages in the future due to a more balanced set of instances. Perhaps with HD
    Hi! I've been after a certain item. 400 runs of Sambrog later, I still do not have it. I will continue to run the instance.

    Why does it have to stop?

    EDIT Here is a list of potential loot, if you feel like checking what you could use/need and perhaps run a few Sammies yourself.
    http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Great_Barrow:_Sambrog

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andala_Kanthos View Post
    To my experience the barrow downs instance with Sambrog is being overly farmed.
    If it drops gold and good loot, it's overfarmed. How about instead of scaling content, we get *reasonable*, *creative*, and *new* content.
    Did everyone get a bugged signature? My BB code doesn't work anymore
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andala_Kanthos View Post
    I hope to see more varied LFF messages in the future due to a more balanced set of instances. Perhaps with HD
    Than post some yourself. If you want to do lots of different instances than start your own group. If you sit around waiting for others to start groups than that's your fault. It doesn't have anything to do with sambrog.

  21. #21
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    I agree with Engine. If you don't like seeing so many Sambrog posts, run something else. Personally, I don't run Sambrog anymore ever. My E captain doesn't even have it unlocked, so any group I'm in can't run it either. Leads to a much more fun time.
    [CENTER][IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v341/tindragon/Base.png[/IMG]
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  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Andala_Kanthos View Post
    Arguments like "but everyone has a will to chose to do any instance they want, they do not have to do Sambrog" is not a valid argument
    I love this part, just because you say its not a valid argument doesn't mean its true. So there are no locks, plenty of choice but everyone does sammy and its not good enough for you, you want people to run what you want. Well run your own choice then, like enginekid says the problem is with you, and there is no exploit so stop being so dramatic.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andala_Kanthos View Post
    Hello. To my experience the barrow downs instance with Sambrog is being overly farmed. I see lff messages to Sambrog all over the place. It is ridiculous because it inhibits people from doing a more varied distribution of instances. This is due to unbalanced loot tables versus accessability or difficulty or time requirement to do the instance, I don't know the exact factor. I am sure people could fill in the details what particular factors make it stand out as a prime "farming object".
    There is an absolutely obvious reason why it is being run so often - rewards/risk/time. It also doesn't take rocket science to successfully run Sambrog. So, people gravitate toward it.

    Want proof? Ask people why Thadur and The Maze parts of Great Barrow aren't run very often.



    This type of behaviour has to stop. Arguments like "but everyone has a will to chose to do any instance they want, they do not have to do Sambrog" is not a valid argument because: The fact stands that it is inhibiting variety (see above) making the other, perhaps more interesting instances neglected and wasted. In order to run a less frequently run instance you are in need of a focused group, specialized in other purposes than those fullfilled by the Sambrog instance. Which can be hard for the people in smaller kins or those whithout kins or those who find it fun to run pickup groups.
    I like how you treat the most common sense response to your assertions that "Sambrog is being exploited" as being invalid. Problem is you want to ignore simple human nature. We like getting the most reward for the least amount of effort when we can do so.

    FYI... you might want to stow your attitude if you want people to consider any valid points you might have.


    I am going to generalize here, beyond the Sambrog instance, because any instance can take it place given the right properties. I believe it is a design fault that is important to consider, albeit it is not easy to fix given that people are clever in finding the most optimal way of receiving rewards. In any case, tweaks should be done more frequently or faster to those instances that seem to get overly a lot of attention so other instances get to see more light.

    I hope to see more varied LFF messages in the future due to a more balanced set of instances. Perhaps with HD
    Again, you are completely missing the part that human nature plays in this. You just told us that any other instance can take Sambrog's place... yet, you seem to completely ignore your own words!

    So, again, to be blunt, I would strongly consider stowing your attitude. Then, come back and try again from an objective point of view that isn't slanted by your own biases.
    Dagranhad - Burglar | Aldgarea - Loremaster | Barathrothir - Hunter | Golladhar - Captain

  24. #24
    You are seriously missing my point; human nature is one thing; game layout is another. Human nature makes you get your loot the eez way yes no problem, it is irrelevant. I look at ways (if there are any, and I certainly believe so) to make for a more diversified pool of instances being run THROUGH GAME SYSTEMS, not forcing anyong to do any paritcular instance. I find it incredibly boring that one instance is being overly farmed due to the fact that it locks people away from doing other instances, by their own will of course. How about suggesting ideas that promote a more varied set of instances being run? If you think it is fine as it is, that is your opinion, not mine.
    Last edited by Andala_Kanthos; Sep 17 2013 at 03:52 PM.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andala_Kanthos View Post
    How about suggesting ideas that promote a more varied set of instances being run?
    who promotes it?
    how

 

 
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