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  1. #26
    Turbine hasn't really sold (or explained) the big battles very well.

    As he says, they way they make it sound, it's just like a big skirmish. It's a massive marketing failure

    And I have to say, I get more than a little tired of all the comments about solo players being "spoon fed" and such. If anything, it's the opposite. Solo players never get any decent gear as rewards (until apparently the Hybolt armor).

    The 70-ish armor I've been given as quest rewards in Dunland is worse than 65 raid armor (which I got from the lottery) and even some of the 60 Wood elf gear. I couldn't even be doing Dunland if I didn't win the lottery. There's no good way to get armor in the game solo. Even with crafting, you have a huge cool down on guild armor, it takes 6 weeks to get a full set.

    Meanwhile, a grouping player gets more rewards from an instance than I've probably ever gotten from doing 100s of skirmishes. Doing one solo gives you maybe 2 medallions (plus 1-2 more if you do the extra encounter), meanwhile a group instance give you 300-400 medallions.

    By contrast, something like SWTOR is actually solo friendly. As you do quests, you get commendations. These commendations can then be traded for gear. Good gear, the best you can use. While you typically don't get enough to have a full set, you get enough to more than get by.

    Here, you can't get anything.

    Rift is another much more solo friendly game.

  2. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by trancejeremy View Post
    Turbine hasn't really sold (or explained) the big battles very well.

    As he says, they way they make it sound, it's just like a big skirmish. It's a massive marketing failure

    And I have to say, I get more than a little tired of all the comments about solo players being "spoon fed" and such. If anything, it's the opposite. Solo players never get any decent gear as rewards (until apparently the Hybolt armor).

    The 70-ish armor I've been given as quest rewards in Dunland is worse than 65 raid armor (which I got from the lottery) and even some of the 60 Wood elf gear. I couldn't even be doing Dunland if I didn't win the lottery. There's no good way to get armor in the game solo. Even with crafting, you have a huge cool down on guild armor, it takes 6 weeks to get a full set.

    Meanwhile, a grouping player gets more rewards from an instance than I've probably ever gotten from doing 100s of skirmishes. Doing one solo gives you maybe 2 medallions (plus 1-2 more if you do the extra encounter), meanwhile a group instance give you 300-400 medallions.

    By contrast, something like SWTOR is actually solo friendly. As you do quests, you get commendations. These commendations can then be traded for gear. Good gear, the best you can use. While you typically don't get enough to have a full set, you get enough to more than get by.

    Here, you can't get anything.

    Rift is another much more solo friendly game.
    What exactly do you need the best gear in this game for if you run solo? No solo content requires that gear.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/032020000000bd0ff/signature.png]Aidus[/charsig]

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  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Aidus View Post
    What exactly do you need the best gear in this game for if you run solo? No solo content requires that gear.
    What exactly do you need the best gear in this game for if you raid? No raid content requires that gear.

  4. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Fredelas View Post
    What exactly do you need the best gear in this game for if you raid? No raid content requires that gear.
    LOL! Good point!
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/032020000000bd0ff/signature.png]Aidus[/charsig]

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  5. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Aidus View Post
    LOL! Good point!
    I'm sorry. I realize that sounds a little snarky now that I re-read it.

    I just wanted to point out that it's natural for players of every persuasion to want the best possible gear for their characters. Not only is it a status symbol, it also helps you do WHATEVER it is you do more effectively. (Assuming what you do involves combat.)

  6. #31
    i prefer solo playing over grouping because well, people can suck lol

    Not saying everyone, but sometimes being solo on a game is better than if we were forced to be in a group. I play with 3 other friends on here and play together when we have time and are all on, but whos to tell me i cant jump on by myself and play alone for the night if i choose to. Even if i am F2P or VIP or premium. If im all F2P and never give turbine a cent so be it. I could actually still promote the game in saying how much i enjoy it thus bringing in more players who actually will play and pay, who otherwise would never give lotro a chance.

    (btw ive paid money to turbine just so i try to come off as unbiased as possible.)
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  7. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Fredelas View Post
    What exactly do you need the best gear in this game for if you raid? No raid content requires that gear.
    ToO T2 CMs most certainly did (all but lightning wing). Your argument has been presented countless times and answered with this answer numerous times.. yet it still goes on and on. And it's always people who didn't do much raiding who bring out this argument. I know you know a lot about the game but in this case you're simply not informed enough to be making such a claim.
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  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lothirieth View Post
    ToO T2 CMs most certainly did (all but lightning wing). Your argument has been presented countless times and answered with this answer numerous times.. yet it still goes on and on. And it's always people who didn't do much raiding who bring out this argument. I know you know a lot about the game but in this case you're simply not informed enough to be making such a claim.
    Well let me rephrase it why are alot of raiders so opposed to giving equally stated gear outside of raids(mind you i'm talking stats not appearances or such). Wouldn't hurt the progression, in fact it would probably make it easier to gear up a replacement. Also it would not really be hard to make gear dependant solo play for Turbine, after all the hard raids are mostly mechanic dependant(of course bigger numbers help there too), pure gear checks are usually the easy ones(assuming you have the gear). What is harder to do is give compelling mechanics in a solo environment.

    Yeah my raiding times are a few years past and in other games but i assume the fundamentals haven't changed too much.


    Ok last edit really, i hope Turbine actually will offer a solo/duo progression with the Epic battles i'd like that.
    Last edited by Thorwyn99; Sep 18 2013 at 09:48 AM.
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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorwyn99 View Post
    Well let me rephrase it why are alot of raiders so opposed to giving equally stated gear outside of raids(mind you i'm talking stats not appearances or such). Wouldn't hurt the progression, in fact it would probably make it easier to gear up a replacement. Also it would not really be hard to make gear dependant solo play for Turbine, after all the hard raids are mostly mechanic dependant(of course bigger numbers help there too), pure gear checks are usually the easy ones(assuming you have the gear). What is harder to do is give compelling mechanics in a solo environment.

    Yeah my raiding times are a few years past and in other games but i assume the fundamentals haven't changed too much.
    Well as Lothirieth eluded to a raid such as TOO t2c certainly required better gear to complete. If I tried to tank it in crafted gear and quest gear I would not be lasting more than a few seconds. It's not just about the mechanics of a raid that make it difficult. There is also how hard the mobs hit, how much tactical damage is output. How much a single heal can heal, etc.

    Yes Hytbold made it easier for me to gear up alts for instances but after I got the Hytbold gear I had no need to get a single piece of Erebor gear to complete T2 and then T2C.

    So to the op not sure he has reached level 85 yet but just so he knows I was completing the toughest raids as a tank in Hytbold gear which I did not have to complete a single group instance to obtain. 100% solo. I also had ZERO first age items. My LI's were second age which most were bought in the skirm camp.
    As far as your lottery won gear being better than quest rewards, it's like that for a reason. Players out cry that the epic gear they obtained with hard mode activities was made useless 2 levels into an xpac. Meanwhile the Draigoch gear I obtained lasted me into level 85 until I got my Hytbold gear. 10 levels. I would suspect that the gear you were given can be replaced by about level 70, with crafted items and quest gear.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorwyn99 View Post
    Well let me rephrase it why are alot of raiders so opposed to giving equally stated gear outside of raids...
    Yeah, I was getting at this in another post. For many (but not nearly all!) raiders, it seems to be about the game recognizing their "superiority" with its rewards. I've even had people tell me that if the great unwashed masses could get their hands on gear as good as raid gear (by any means), they thought it would destroy the incentive to raid at all. Apparently, gear superiority is the way these players get to feel like special snowflakes.

    I have to admit I just don't understand that attitude at all. If I save up my money for 10 years to buy a Ferrari, I've earned it. I don't need to win the Indy 500 to prove I "deserve" it, and I certainly don't "need" it. I desired it, which is enough. Doesn't matter if the rich guy at the end of the lane picked one up on a whim last week, or my neighbor won one in a street race... I simply don't care what they have, or why. I care about what I have, and I wanted a Ferrari. I'm going to feel good about mine.

    Someone is probably going to bring up sports trophies, or academic degrees, or other things of that nature... why should "just anyone" get to have those? They shouldn't. But an MMO isn't a competitive sport, nor is it a college education. It's an entertainment service, with paying customers who mostly all love great rewards. It should act like one. And if a few people cannot be entertained without feeling superior to everyone else... too bad.

    Khafar

  11. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by scrumtrelescent View Post
    It's insane to me that everyone is saying "there's no group content, there's no raids" simply because Turbine chose not to use the word "raid". They should have called Epic Battles "Dynamic Raids" just to quiet down all furor. Turbine has said clearly that epic battles DO have raid level settings and do support raid-sized groups. That makes them raids--perhaps not in the typical "Tiered multiboss gear ladder with locks" mindset, but a raid is group content designed for 2+ full fellowships. 12-man group Epic Battles are raids.

    Now, I'm not saying they will be as good, better, or worse than traditional raids. But they are group content designed for raid-sized groups, and that makes them raids. As of now, no one has seen the finished product of epic battles. So for raiders to say automatically that there are no raids and no content that caters to their playstyle is patently absurd. They have said they will have raid-sized epic battles with scaling difficulty.

    Again: I'm not saying these will be as good, better, or worse than traditional raids. I don't know any more than anyone else does, as I have seen or played an Epic Battle. Certainly they have the capacity to turn out great or terrible or anywhere in between. But they are group content, and it would be nice if people would at least try something or at least even SEE it before insisting that it is terrible and stupid.

    Now, if AFTER people have seen it they still hate it, that's a different story. But as of right now no one has. And to say that HD will not have raid-level or group-level content is simply absurd. There IS such content. It will just be different.
    It seems to me that you fail to understand what a Raid is. It is not about 12 people together, it is much more complicated than that. Skirmish Raids in fact were simply dumping twelve people together and they grew old very fast. People are worried as stated by someone that Big Battles will only be glorified Skirmishes, maybe in another sauce, but still with the same meat. What is worrying is that in order to make the Big Battles appealing to everyone, even those who have been playing for a few weeks probably, it would probably be necessary to ease the content. From a marketing point of view, this is a wise move, as it gives every player no matter her/his level something to do. However, the raiders (very generic term including those who like doing endgaming instances, not only raiding kins) could find the content far too easy after a few weeks.

    Time will tell of course, I do not want to dismiss the novelty before trying it, but the premises for those enjoying endgaming are not that exciting. Happy however to take it back, as I still love LOTRO.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minquinn View Post
    Yes Hytbold made it easier for me to gear up alts for instances but after I got the Hytbold gear I had no need to get a single piece of Erebor gear to complete T2 and then T2C.
    Well in a perfect world the raids should have come out with hytbold so you could either chose to acquire the gear by raid or by Hytbold. I'm just as opposed to forcing everyone into a solo setting as i am into being forced into a raid/group setting myself.
    Alternatively they could have made the stats bigger on the erebor set and added a hytbold v2 which had equal stats and could be achieved through some solo ways but had to be reacquired.
    Reallisticaly Turbine doesn't have the budget to do that though so i'm for a flat power curve.
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  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khafar View Post
    Yeah, I was getting at this in another post. For many (but not nearly all!) raiders, it seems to be about the game recognizing their "superiority" with its rewards. I've even had people tell me that if the great unwashed masses could get their hands on gear as good as raid gear (by any means), they thought it would destroy the incentive to raid at all. Apparently, gear superiority is the way these players get to feel like special snowflakes.

    I have to admit I just don't understand that attitude at all. If I save up my money for 10 years to buy a Ferrari, I've earned it. I don't need to win the Indy 500 to prove I "deserve" it, and I certainly don't "need" it. I desired it, which is enough. Doesn't matter if the rich guy at the end of the lane picked one up on a whim last week, or my neighbor won one in a street race... I simply don't care what they have, or why. I care about what I have, and I wanted a Ferrari. I'm going to feel good about mine.

    Someone is probably going to bring up sports trophies, or academic degrees, or other things of that nature... why should "just anyone" get to have those? They shouldn't. But an MMO isn't a competitive sport, nor is it a college education. It's an entertainment service, with paying customers who mostly all love great rewards. It should act like one. And if a few people cannot be entertained without feeling superior to everyone else... too bad.

    Khafar
    Well i would count sport trophies as deeds or cosmetics. And i'm all for giving them to people that do the hardest stuff. Your sports trophy does not make you perform better in your next race though, nor does it give you any advantage over the person that finished last.
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  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khafar View Post
    Yeah, I was getting at this in another post. For many (but not nearly all!) raiders, it seems to be about the game recognizing their "superiority" with its rewards. I've even had people tell me that if the great unwashed masses could get their hands on gear as good as raid gear (by any means), they thought it would destroy the incentive to raid at all. Apparently, gear superiority is the way these players get to feel like special snowflakes.

    I have to admit I just don't understand that attitude at all. If I save up my money for 10 years to buy a Ferrari, I've earned it. I don't need to win the Indy 500 to prove I "deserve" it, and I certainly don't "need" it. I desired it, which is enough. Doesn't matter if the rich guy at the end of the lane picked one up on a whim last week, or my neighbor won one in a street race... I simply don't care what they have, or why. I care about what I have, and I wanted a Ferrari. I'm going to feel good about mine.

    Someone is probably going to bring up sports trophies, or academic degrees, or other things of that nature... why should "just anyone" get to have those? They shouldn't. But an MMO isn't a competitive sport, nor is it a college education. It's an entertainment service, with paying customers who mostly all love great rewards. It should act like one. And if a few people cannot be entertained without feeling superior to everyone else... too bad.

    Khafar
    Even if you preface it by saying "(but not nearly all!)" you use the word many. Most of the raiders I have met are trying to obtain full sets of gear in order to progress to the next harder raid or the T2 versions of the raid we are given.

    In Lotro I have seen little to no gear linking like I did while playing Warcraft. Those who were linking the gear were generally linking pieces that were easy to obtain.
    Every now in then in that game you would see the top level gear being linked but for the most part it was mid level items.

    As far as Lotro is concerned that attitude is a small minority behavior. While most may brag about the level of content they have completed t2, T2C, etc. What they are not doing is spam linking gear to "recognize their "superiority". The gear is a means to an end. The end being beating the top level content.

    You know I could sit here and stereotype all solo only players but I will not. Because I know there are differences between every single one of them. Some like skirms, so me like to craft only, some like to just log in for festivals.

    When I began playing this game I had no intention of grouping or raiding etc. It never bothered me that players put in a little extra time and effort to get some better gear. Honestly I cared less about what they had and more about how I played the game the way I liked, if I was rewarded for it or not it didn't bother me.

    Why you carry a bitterness towards these people is beyond me as they can be easily ignored.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorwyn99 View Post
    Well i would count sport trophies as deeds or cosmetics.
    True enough. I still have the one I got while setting an American Record (swimming) back in 1981. But you're right, it didn't even help me in nationals that year (the record was set at regionals)... nor even in my next race the same day. I treasure it anyway .

    Khafar

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minquinn View Post
    Why you carry a bitterness towards these people
    It's not "bitterness". More like "annoyance". I've argued forcefully for "Comparable Incomparable" gear (one of Turbine's best ideas) in MMOs for 7 years now, and wind up in verbal fencing matches with "these people" every single time. For some reason, if anyone else can get access to comparably awesome gear, it's like their reason for existing is threatened or something.

    Heck, sometimes the argument has basically devolved into an assertion (by them) that raiding sucks, and the only reason people are willing to put up with it is so they can get that exclusive gear. Ouch. If that were really true, MMO companies should just give up on that form of "entertainment" entirely - bribing people to endure suckage for months is a grand way to burn them out on your game, which isn't a great role for the most expensive type of content to create. Of course, I don't believe that's really true, but apparently some people believe it is.

    Khafar

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khafar View Post
    I don't know if it's "vast" or not, but it's almost certainly a majority. That isn't unique to LOTRO either. Koster said 10 years ago that players will solo until the game stops giving them a choice - an exaggeration, but there's some truth in it. I certainly hope nobody's going to make an appeal for forced grouping.

    Nonsense. "Solo" in this context means "solo adventuring", not "hermit". Solo adventuring is clearly the majority playstyle, in any MMO which allows it. Soloers interact with other players in all sorts of ways, from chatting to trading/buying/selling, helping others, joining social guilds (kinships), etc. They just don't spend much time adventuring in groups.

    So you have a sample size of 1? Congratulations. You do realize that Turbine knows all of this without any of the uncertainty that you and I have, right? They can just pull it from their database, and see which accounts raid, and which don't - how much time is spent on various activities, etc. They do very extensive data mining in order to help them decide what to do, whether forum feedback lines up with reality on the ground, etc.

    I've pointed this out before, but once upon a time a much more raid/instance-centric game (WoW) was instrumented to give extensive (and comprehensive) data on all of the characters on a number of servers, 15-18 months after it shipped. This data was pulled on every character logged in, every 10 minutes, 24/7. What it found was quite surprising. Like... only 1 in 3 level-capped characters even set foot in a single raid during an entire month, and only half of those had stayed long enough to complete one raid. In a month. Those who raided "regularly" (3 or more in a month) were only a fraction of that 1/2 of 1/3. Etc. Many raiders flatly refused to believe it, because "everyone they knew" raided - an excellent example of self-selection bias. Yet it was true.

    Those seem like very bad assumptions, and if true, you have to also assume that Turbine doesn't care if their flagship game crashes and burns. And that they must actually want more layoffs, since the ones they went through last year were so much fun.

    Uh huh. Sure.

    They're making decisions to try and give the most entertainment to the most people they can within their resource/budget constraints. That's what rational businesses do, and I see no reason to think they're any different. You might not like those decisions, but that doesn't make them wrong.

    Khafar

    Alot of what you say is true but cutting raids completely and replacing them with big battles is just too much. There might be majority soloers but there is still a number of raiders in the game.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by sakisman View Post
    Alot of what you say is true but cutting raids completely and replacing them with big battles is just too much. There might be majority soloers but there is still a number of raiders in the game.
    Well who is to say the epic battles in 12 man modes aren't great raids. Mind you i'm not saying they are but we have pretty little information to actually judge as of now.
    Last edited by Thorwyn99; Sep 18 2013 at 11:28 AM.
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  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khafar View Post
    It's not "bitterness". More like "annoyance". I've argued forcefully for "Comparable Incomparable" gear (one of Turbine's best ideas) in MMOs for 7 years now, and wind up in verbal fencing matches with "these people" every single time. For some reason, if anyone else can get access to comparably awesome gear, it's like their reason for existing is threatened or something.

    Heck, sometimes the argument has basically devolved into an assertion (by them) that raiding sucks, and the only reason people are willing to put up with it is so they can get that exclusive gear. Ouch. If that were really true, MMO companies should just give up on that form of "entertainment" entirely - bribing people to endure suckage for months is a grand way to burn them out on your game, which isn't a great role for the most expensive type of content to create. Of course, I don't believe that's really true, but apparently some people believe it is.

    Khafar
    I think "these people" are probably far and few between. The players posting here on the forums lately are very displeased with the "new direction" of the game. Instead of taking these extremists as gospel they can be simply ignored. What you have forgotten is that most people who use the grouping feature of the game also use all of the solo aspects of the game as well Hytbold, Wildermore, crafting instances. Just because you choose to ignore features of the game does not mean others are. So many end game raiders, 3 and 6 man runners are using solo content as well. People who limit themsleves with the content will hit a wall in most games luckily the book quests in Volume 1 are quite long and as a solo player I have spent free time doing this.

    Raiding sucks because they have taken a once a week activity (consisting of maybe 6 hours?) and made it into a grindfest where you are encouraged to run the same instance multiple times back to back in order to get items to progress to T2. These "Raids" could last as long as 45 mins or as little as 5 mins. But yet the reward structure is identical. Do you see where this becomes problematic?

    The current loot system is a joke because it allows some players to not only get the gear faster but also allows for players to go extended stretches without receiving a single thing. Which means in a single group there will be players ready for tier 2 and others that are not even close to be geared for that content. Even though I said I was able to complete t2 raids in Hytbold Gear I had to obtain other items to tank including: Better than crafted teal shield (only piece won in a raid that was usable), Earrings, Wrist (which finally had to be purchased in the AH via 150 gold), rings (one of which had to bought on the AH via 135 gold).

    So yeah raiding sucks now because before I spent 6 hours a week doing it as opposed to countless hours to get the same reward for doing it which is progression.
    If you find these players to be an annoyance, simply ignore them as I have done with solo players that insist that players need to be labeled in order to play an MMO.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minquinn View Post
    What you have forgotten is that most people who use the grouping feature of the game also use all of the solo aspects of the game...
    I haven't "forgotten", and neither has Turbine. They data mine extensively, and know just how people are using their game... what proportion solo exclusively, who does instances and how regularly, who raids. What percentage of active accounts do each, when, in what proportions. What the content distributions are. And of course, what every type of content costs to create.

    Is it really that far-fetched to believe that they can get significantly more "entertainment ROI" out of Epic Battles, which not only broaden the playstyles it supports (from solo/duo all the way up to 12-mans), but also includes characters down to level 10? To me at least, that seems pretty obvious.

    Khafar

  21. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    Epic Battles support group sizes of 1, 2, 3, 6, and 12.
    My 3 accounts won't be there.


    I chose LOTRO (when the kids got too old to play FusionFall (RIP)) due to the story, the lack of visual trash, and the apparent desire of Turbine to make and keep promises ... an appearance of character.
    So I paid for 3 accounts for over a year, and bought RoR for all 3 accounts (top level purchase, as early Christmas gifts). The kids got bored with LOTRO since then and have moved on to a non-MMO game. (The younger one never made it to Rohan - leveling was too much work and not enough fun.) The older has said he might play once HD comes out - but he'll probably change his mind when I point out that the Epic quests are no longer free and I'm not paying money to a company that won't keep its word. My family is a stickler for keeping your word. In fact, so are my friends and it turns out a large number of our Kin.

    So - the only honorable and family-friendly MMO out there... no longer keeps their promises. *shrug* Ah well.


    And... how are the classes broken? Did you ask the players at large, or only those who are on the "Council"? I find them all equally playable, personally. Or... I have.
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  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by podgie_bear View Post
    Obviously it is all subjective experience depending on each player, but from my point of view I have seen 90%+ of my friends leave the game in dusgust at the direction Turbine/WB have taken. All say the same things, "dumbed down", "Grindfest", "Greedy money grabbing", "don't listen to what players say", "don't fix bugs, but add &&&& content", etc, etc. I used to be in a kin with hundreds od members (players not just characters), now that kin has folded completly due to so few members still playing and I am in a new kin which is an amalgamation of the remaining players from 6 seperate kins, we have EIGHT members!

    It seems our experiences of what is happening to LotRO are quite different!
    Even though there are some forum goers that will say this is a small sample size or make excuses why this is happening, if I had a dollar for every time I heard this I'd be doing pretty good. The kinsmen I still talk to on face book use some of those words. Especially "don't listen to the players". Many felt slighted that the loot system problems have either been ignored or just plain accepted. Many of my own kin members have visited here in an attempt to at least get Turbine to make the current system better. Only to get the response: "we are not bringing the old system back". A kin tank and myself tried to get a simple teal wrist for tanking and spent countless hours farming it only to find out it was not dropping for guardians or wardens due to an error.

    Mounted Combat was another reason. The word gimmick being used alot. Some people highly objected to the slobbit machines. Some players found other games that offered more of the content they use. If I did not think this game could still be successful I wouldn't be here voicing my concerns. I don't think asking for on par xpacs is being too greedy. If you gave me x feature last xpac I would expect to get x's equivalent for same costing xpacs. It is not even reserved for the xpacs. Wildermore was in my eyes was a fraction of what we got for Great River. And in my opinion GR had better replayability.

    So go ahead and add me to this list 3 servers, 3 kins none has been as active as before ROR, all 3 had at minimum 30 active players during ROI. I'm not saying the game is dying but it would be a good thing for the developer to keep as many players happy as possible. And I'm tired of players justifying offering less features because it's good for business.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronzesquire View Post
    ....


    The game dies....?
    I hate to break the news to you, but rumors of LOTRO's demise are greatly exaggerated. Far from dying, Turbine is releasing a massive expac. Will some love it? Will some feel meh about it? Undoubtedly. Having read the rest of your post, I feel for you as a past huge supporter of LOTRO and your disappointment that the game has changed. But maybe give HD a chance when it comes out, you might find the magic is still there.
    other favorite middle-earth games: The One Ring RPG by Cubicle 7; LotR: The Card Game by FFG; Hobbit/LotR Strategy Battle Game by GW

  24. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Elexicon View Post
    My 3 accounts won't be there.


    I chose LOTRO (when the kids got too old to play FusionFall (RIP)) due to the story, the lack of visual trash, and the apparent desire of Turbine to make and keep promises ... an appearance of character.
    So I paid for 3 accounts for over a year, and bought RoR for all 3 accounts (top level purchase, as early Christmas gifts). The kids got bored with LOTRO since then and have moved on to a non-MMO game. (The younger one never made it to Rohan - leveling was too much work and not enough fun.) The older has said he might play once HD comes out - but he'll probably change his mind when I point out that the Epic quests are no longer free and I'm not paying money to a company that won't keep its word. My family is a stickler for keeping your word. In fact, so are my friends and it turns out a large number of our Kin.

    So - the only honorable and family-friendly MMO out there... no longer keeps their promises. *shrug* Ah well.


    And... how are the classes broken? Did you ask the players at large, or only those who are on the "Council"? I find them all equally playable, personally. Or... I have.
    You must provide 100s of free hours of labor every year for your employer to expect free aspects of this game to continue forever. If you really paid for all those past expansions, why would it bother you that the epic story is pay gated for this expansion? Oh, that's right, Turbine should not pay its employees and go bankrupt so your kids can play the game for free? I mean common, can't you find a more logical way to troll than this? I apologize in advance if anything I said seems harsh, but anyone but a complete idiot would realize the millions of person-hours that have gone into creating and maintaining LOTRO and would not start whining when a small part of it is no longer free for one single expansion. I just can't stand entitled whiners who cry "It's for the CHILDREN!" while expecting Turbine employees to work for them for nothing. And no, I have nothing to do with Turbine and am not related to anyone who works there. But I'm not afraid to call out an extremist post for what it is. If you don't like LOTRO anymore, fine. But don't expect (Turbine) people who have their own families and children to feed to work to provide you with entertainment for nothing,

  25. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by rainyday1 View Post
    You must provide 100s of free hours of labor every year for your employer to expect free aspects of this game to continue forever. If you really paid for all those past expansions, why would it bother you that the epic story is pay gated for this expansion? Oh, that's right, Turbine should not pay its employees and go bankrupt so your kids can play the game for free? I mean common, can't you find a more logical way to troll than this? I apologize in advance if anything I said seems harsh, but anyone but a complete idiot would realize the millions of person-hours that have gone into creating and maintaining LOTRO and would not start whining when a small part of it is no longer free for one single expansion. I just can't stand entitled whiners who cry "It's for the CHILDREN!" while expecting Turbine employees to work for them for nothing. And no, I have nothing to do with Turbine and am not related to anyone who works there. But I'm not afraid to call out an extremist post for what it is. If you don't like LOTRO anymore, fine. But don't expect (Turbine) people who have their own families and children to feed to work to provide you with entertainment for nothing,
    Dude - stop making stuff up.

    I never said the the things you responded to. "It's for the children"? As if I would be so saccharine. "Turbine should go bankrupt"? Never said that either. "... so your kids can play the game for free" well now you're either making up in your head what I didn't say or you didn't actually read my post.

    And then you blanket-insult and completely ignore the actual point of the post with "only an idiot..." I also never said I expected anything for free (lest I'd have been f2p like some others have been).


    I'll boil down my original post to less than 10 words:
    "Turbine, you broke your promise. I hate that."

    Hopefully you can't misrepresent that and you might get the point of my original post.

    For someone to say "Turbine, you promised, and I expect honesty" may seem extremist to you ... but in fact it's my right to expect honesty and yours to respond to stuff I didn't say as if I had said it.
    Leader of [URL="http://livingcraftmanshps.guildlaunch.com"]Living Craftmanships[/URL] (Arkenstone)

 

 
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