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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_toad View Post
    For that matter, I really liked playing hockey and football in high school, but can't stand watching them on a tv. So I personally think SC2 is much more of a valid sport than pro hockey and football.
    Omg..Your personal preference does not, in any way affect a sports validity... What could is its physical nature. Does it or does it not have one?.. A lot of people do not consider chess a sport because of lacking physicality which almost all major sports do have...

    But i prefer the broader definition: everything engaged competitively is sport..... Simple as that.. So yeah you can consider MMO activity a sport if you are competitive in it.... PvMP is surely a sport then..
    They are all just as valid
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  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    Epic Battles support group sizes of 1, 2, 3, 6, and 12.
    Sapience, please tell me, how much big battles we will see at HD release? 2, 3 ?do you think it will entertain us till next add on ? or are we bored 2 weeks after hitting 95 ? thats what i think about ur big battles.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khafar View Post
    In an MMO, the real currency is time, and time-to-reward is a good way to set things up IMO. If you do the most difficult content in the most challenging way, you should get far greater rewards (in barter terms) than the people who are doing it in an easier manner.
    If it's slanted way too much toward time with very little challenge, as things stand now, then the game becomes boring. I don't think I am in a big minority in this, as the game is bleeding committed players. Traditionally, when the game was at its height, it had much more of a meritocratic system. Endless grind like Hytbold and the Wildermore dailies is just not interesting.

    Before in LOTRO, obtaining the best gear has always been mostly based on challenge + time, with a few exceptions (such as the Great River jewelry). Khafar, you say you would like to see a system that implements both challenge + time or just time alone. I would not have a problem with this if it is workable, and this indeed appears to be the concept they are going after in Epic Battles, but the question is- can they really successfully implement such a system? It can't be easy or we would have seen it already. I really hope the concept pans out, I really do.
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  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    Epic Battles support group sizes of 1, 2, 3, 6, and 12.

    Really that's what you've got. Come on. You guys are making this game suck. Years of group running and building fellowships are slowly but surely being crushed. That's such a weak reply. Where are the staged raids ? This is a becoming a solo game. Real nice job on the last raids. Here fight a boss. Come on?

    The stubborn position on these trait trees is going to be the end of this game for many. What part of your constant drop in numbers don't you understand.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minquinn View Post
    Me personally I'm not a fanatic, but I agree with the rest of what you said. I've never even been a regular raider, but I like the option of being able to do that content when the solo content bores me. But just looking at the current xpac ROR my hopes are low. When they say something like Hytbold was so successful that scares me, as it was the only way to obtain raid quality gear for almost 4 months. Which is what made it popular in most cases
    Hytbold was a 'success' in that I logged on quickly ran through 5 boring daily instances and logged off. But that was all I did. I'm sure me logging on is part of the 'success' they mean. But it isn't really. 'Success' would involve me playing for the evening and spending money in the store on consumables and cosmetics rather than going off to other games and giving them my money while I wait months for another few hours of new content to entertain me.

    I hope Epic Battles provides the reason to log on and keep playing of an evening rather than another repetitive grind for little or no reward. It is the feature my Kin is most looking forward to. I don't think many of us can take another dreary disappointment like Wildermore, particularly the end-game 'grind for a pocket item worse than what you already have.'

    I'm a big lotro fan. Played for years and spent a fortune but HD is playing in the Last Chance saloon. It's the first time I haven't paid cash for the most expensive version on the day it is out. I am really hoping that in its released state it really raises the bar. That Epic Battles offer great repeatable challenge gameplay and the new class system makes my character more fun to play.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by jparker View Post
    This is a becoming a solo game.
    That happens not because developers want make LOTRO a solo game, but because people prefer to play solo.

    Now the question is why do they prefer to play solo?
    Of course you can always blame the game that it could do better job to unite players.

    But if you want to look at it seriuosly, then the answer is simple. Majority of players prefer solo play to the group/raid the way it is currently implemented.
    Developers try to change game basics in order to group people. Big Battle is an attempt. We'll see how successful it'll be.

    You suggestion to go the same old way and make more RAID content is not the way to go. While it'll please you and many core players (I assume), it does not please the majority of other players.

    Being level 70-80 champion I can hardly do any group raid or instance. Moria is behind me, but new instances are too diffucult. I need to be level 85 to find a suitable group on my server. So..... I play solo.

    If developer makes more RAIDS it is useless for me until I'm level 85.

    Big Battle on the other hand will probably give me a chance to group with other people even if I am not at CAP level.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronzesquire View Post
    Why is turbine destroying the social bulk of the game. Most of these soloers are not on very often, many do not know of glff. (Why would they need to. They are soloing. :-P) When you make the player base ENTIRELY soloers (except for me and my group, moving through Carn Dum, reliving days past.) because there is NOTHING for people who want to play with friends, you get a deserted game. The odds of characters interacting with each other is very small. The social channels are rarely used. LFF is completely obsolete. The game looks and feels dead. The role players will more likely feel a tremendous shortage. many of the raiders are also PvPers to a fault, and with the death of kin-ships, (except for solo kinships, where you help others craft in the crafting hall, where all the soloers spend a good deal of their time; watching them blue bars fill.) Many PvPers find themselves without kinds, and go to some real PvP games.
    What you're doing here is making a sweeping generalization about solo players that is completely false. I have soloed and still solo through most of the game. I have spent many hours playing, and am on, I'm sure, as much as any other player and maybe even more. I have contributed a lot of money to the game buying TP points, expansions, and VIP. I know glff. I have it set as a channel in chat. Yes, glff is for fellowships, but a lot of people use it for information too as it's easier to get answers doing a global chat rather than just a regional one. You are just more likely to get an answer. I rarely type in glff unless to answer a question and help someone or find a group on the occasion I need help, but I'm always reading it. Also, just because I solo mostly doesn't mean I don't interact with other players. I do pull a group together when it's necessary and ask for help if I need it. I know and am known by quite a few on my server (actually I am on two servers regularly and know a fair amount of people on both) as I interact and talk to people even if I don't group with them. I am often role playing or chatting with other players. I have sent IMs to other players with questions or just comments. Others have done the same to me, and I will always answer them back as long as it's a friendly IM they have sent, lol. While I do craft, I don't spend most of my time in the crafting hall...not even close. Actually, I find your post rather condescending to be quite honest. I think you are of the opinion that just because some of us solo we are not as good or as dedicated to the game, and frankly, you couldn't be more wrong. I can enjoy the game while soloing and I still love the MMO feel to it. I like to see other players out doing quests or role playing in Bree or other areas, and I like to have the option of grouping if I want but not being forced to group. Soloing is just my personal preference because I like to go at my own pace and play during times I want to play without waiting around for someone else.
    Last edited by jnv7594; Oct 18 2013 at 05:21 PM.

  8. #108
    Helms Deep looks like a fail in the making. The last expansion was sub-par and I think Turbine is taking a 'desperate times call for desperate measures' approach. I don't know if they have enough marketing dollars to go after their new segment /market, and it seems like they have a lot of players to replace. Drastic changes in a brand can be successful, but it hasn't worked very well in the gaming world. Only Turbine knows why they are making such a desperate play and re-doing the game from scratch. I would have been happy with something close to balanced classes and some cool new raids. But, I'm not the new market they are pursuing.

  9. #109
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    Something that keeps getting assumed here is that their marketing department is acting effectively on gathered player data - something the casual/solo crowd typically invokes to remind everyone who has the upper hand in LotRO's future.
    I would like to question why the marketing department gets a pass when the PR, billing and many technical aspects of the game are hardly beyond reproach - even by the casual/soloer?

    You know folks, it may not be a matter of acting on player data. This "new" direction may well just be a shot in the dark as well as the easiest path "forward".
    The casual/solo crowd is much easier to pacify with (pardon me) "inexpensive" content. This is plain truth. I mean, this is essentially what has transpired in the past few years here. Content has been dumbed-down. Inviting, elaborate, innovative higher quality content has been eschewed in favor of easy to (re)produce repeatable content.

    Rather than casual/solo being "the chosen", it's more likely that they're benefactors of circumstance...
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  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by evguenil View Post
    That happens not because developers want make LOTRO a solo game, but because people prefer to play solo.

    Now the question is why do they prefer to play solo?
    Of course you can always blame the game that it could do better job to unite players.

    But if you want to look at it seriuosly, then the answer is simple. Majority of players prefer solo play to the group/raid the way it is currently implemented.
    Developers try to change game basics in order to group people. Big Battle is an attempt. We'll see how successful it'll be.

    You suggestion to go the same old way and make more RAID content is not the way to go. While it'll please you and many core players (I assume), it does not please the majority of other players.

    Being level 70-80 champion I can hardly do any group raid or instance. Moria is behind me, but new instances are too diffucult. I need to be level 85 to find a suitable group on my server. So..... I play solo.

    If developer makes more RAIDS it is useless for me until I'm level 85.

    Big Battle on the other hand will probably give me a chance to group with other people even if I am not at CAP level.
    I play solo most of the time because I can't raid 24/7. Therefore all my solo time is getting ready to raid. Does that make me a solo player? No.

    I don't prefer to play solo, that's the way the game is and mostly always has been. I started back when MoM was first released, and soloed almost all the way to 60 in just a few months so I could get to level cap and group/raid with friends. After that any solo play was only between raid locks and in preparation for the next raid. Or leveling a crafter, to provide stuff for my raiding minstrel.

    It's true there's not a ton of group content for under the level cap characters, except for skirmishes. That doesn't mean a great number of people don't prefer raids to skirmishes. And so far we don't know that big battles will supply the group content any group is looking for. Unless it's similar to a raid I'm not really interested. I never did like skirmishes and I don't do them very often because of that.

    Time will tell.
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  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southpa View Post
    Something that keeps getting assumed here is that their marketing department is acting effectively on gathered player data - something the casual/solo crowd typically invokes to remind everyone who has the upper hand in LotRO's future.
    I would like to question why the marketing department gets a pass when the PR, billing and many technical aspects of the game are hardly beyond reproach - even by the casual/soloer?

    You know folks, it may not be a matter of acting on player data. This "new" direction may well just be a shot in the dark as well as the easiest path "forward".
    The casual/solo crowd is much easier to pacify with (pardon me) "inexpensive" content. This is plain truth. I mean, this is essentially what has transpired in the past few years here. Content has been dumbed-down. Inviting, elaborate, innovative higher quality content has been eschewed in favor of easy to (re)produce repeatable content.

    Rather than casual/solo being "the chosen", it's more likely that they're benefactors of circumstance...
    Yes. But not in the way you describe.

    The pig in the player-population python is at level cap. Once HD opens, they will go en masse to the Westemnet
    and play the Defense of Helm's Deep in groups of one, two, three, six, and twelve. That will be where the group
    content is, because that is where the groups will be. Go to the Bree-lands, or the Lone-lands, or even
    Moria, and you'll find solos and duos ... and not many of them, which is why they're solo- or duoing.
    There's not enough of them to form a group.
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  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southpa View Post
    Something that keeps getting assumed here is that their marketing department is acting effectively on gathered player data - something the casual/solo crowd typically invokes to remind everyone who has the upper hand in LotRO's future.
    I would like to question why the marketing department gets a pass when the PR, billing and many technical aspects of the game are hardly beyond reproach - even by the casual/soloer?

    You know folks, it may not be a matter of acting on player data. This "new" direction may well just be a shot in the dark as well as the easiest path "forward".
    The casual/solo crowd is much easier to pacify with (pardon me) "inexpensive" content. This is plain truth. I mean, this is essentially what has transpired in the past few years here. Content has been dumbed-down. Inviting, elaborate, innovative higher quality content has been eschewed in favor of easy to (re)produce repeatable content.

    Rather than casual/solo being "the chosen", it's more likely that they're benefactors of circumstance...
    They should really check on how they got their statistics from in the first place.

    http://steamcharts.com/app/212500#All <-- this is some real timeline statistics of course avg 3200 perk players it not the total consumer but it just show how this game depreciates just in 2-3 month timeline after a major update is released. They lost more than 70% of their peak player base the first time they debut on Steam.

    If you are a "hardcore solo casual" better keep logging in and out to keep this numbers up . Maybe that will help with their assessment that this game is headed to the right direction

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Khafar View Post
    What Turbine is doing is investing their "expensive content" money into a type of content that a far larger percentage of their players will participate in. Again, why is that controversial?

    Khafar


    What's going to happen after two weeks when no one's playing this either? More Sammy runs? more going back to erebor and running those raids over at t2 and t2cm? i have a feeling this is going the way of mounted combat... shelved! I know no one in my kin does MC, we use those horses to get to places faster not to fight on.
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  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaGere View Post
    What's going to happen after two weeks when no one's playing this either?
    Highly doubtful. The first year skirmishes existed, people ran them incessantly. I ran hundreds myself, and I'm a fairly casual player. Solo players ran them far more than groups (6X as often as 3-mans during the early months, for example), something you could see in the skirmish leader boards right from the start.

    Eventually, people did lose interest, in part because they stopped delivering new skirmishes. And if they don't deliver more Epic Battles over time, I'm sure people will lose interest in those too. I just don't think it'll be "a few weeks".

    Khafar

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Khafar View Post
    Highly doubtful. The first year skirmishes existed, people ran them incessantly. I ran hundreds myself, and I'm a fairly casual player. Solo players ran them far more than groups (6X as often as 3-mans during the early months, for example), something you could see in the skirmish leader boards right from the start.

    Eventually, people did lose interest, in part because they stopped delivering new skirmishes. And if they don't deliver more Epic Battles over time, I'm sure people will lose interest in those too. I just don't think it'll be "a few weeks".

    Khafar
    There was also a wider variety of skirmishes to run when Siege of Mirkwood came out. I believe there were twelve total at launch, each of which could be played in 1-, 3-, 6-, or 12-player varieties. Perhaps solo players were doing more skirmishes because at the same time, Turbine released three 3-player dungeons, one 6-player dungeon, and one 12-player raid. That's a total of 53 different ways to experience this content.

    From what we've been told so far, with Helm's Deep, Turbine is delivering five epic battles, each of which has a 2-player mode (which is tuned to be soloable). In addition, one of those has a 3-player mode, one has a 6-player mode, and one has a 12-player mode. That's a total of 8 different ways to experience this content.

    I do expect epic battles to be popular, especially since they are available beginning at level 10 and feature level scaling. However, because they don't feature the same variety, I expect players to lose interest more quickly than with Mirkwood's skirmishes and instances.

  16. #116
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    a size 1,200 kinship down to 400. Yes I think this game is dieing.
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  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by CalloWindBringer View Post
    If it's slanted way too much toward time with very little challenge, as things stand now, then the game becomes boring. I don't think I am in a big minority in this, as the game is bleeding committed players. Traditionally, when the game was at its height, it had much more of a meritocratic system. Endless grind like Hytbold and the Wildermore dailies is just not interesting. Before in LOTRO, obtaining the best gear has always been mostly based on challenge + time, with a few exceptions (such as the Great River jewelry). Khafar, you say you would like to see a system that implements both challenge + time or just time alone. I would not have a problem with this if it is workable, and this indeed appears to be the concept they are going after in Epic Battles, but the question is- can they really successfully implement such a system? It can't be easy or we would have seen it already. I really hope the concept pans out, I really do.
    That could be solved, if there was an option to get the same gear from raid drops AND by grinding, like Hytbold. But I am sure they have considered this themselves, and possibly implemented it.
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  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Bronzesquire View Post
    I pre-ordered RoI on separate accounts. Unlike many on this server I enjoyed it, and was more than satisfied with update 5. When RoR came, I did not preorder. It look like a hoax. $70 for declining quests? I'd rather just play through the ND, and Angmar again with my friends. (IMO the funnest part of the game if you have a lot of friends to play with. Many hate Angmar because it isn't "solo friendly" and even the raiders avoid it and just power level because everyone tends to be at cap. Not me, I have people I can group with, so Angmar should be tons of fun. Reliving the old days of SoA.) Eventually I bought the instance pack, and the quests with tp when they were on sale. I was very sad to see the decline of the game.... Update 11 was just terrible. Knowing what turbine can do, I was disgusted. Now comes Helm's Deep. I am not so sure I'll even by the expansion when it is on sale half off.

    This is what I see. Slot machines, trait trees, (Pardon my bad language, but that is so WoW. Disgusting.) and worst of all, nothing to play with my friends when I get to Helm's Deep. So the vast majority of people play this MMORPG casually solo? First, MMORPG solo is an oxymoron. Second, I am not seeing these people. These people I see in one area, crafting halls. When I found someone soloing in the ND, I IMed him, and soon found out he was an alt of a grouper. I have seen little to nothing of the "vast majority of the player base." Why? Because they don't play often. So, suppose that most of the raiders, who have already left, play everyday on the games they play. Also suppose that the "Let's solo an MMO." people play once a week, or less. Suppose that many of these are f2p, and do not hand in money, but only do so when absolutely necessary. (I.E. expansions.)

    Why is turbine destroying the social bulk of the game. Most of these soloers are not on very often, many do not know of glff. (Why would they need to. They are soloing. :-P) When you make the player base ENTIRELY soloers (except for me and my group, moving through Carn Dum, reliving days past.) because there is NOTHING for people who want to play with friends, you get a deserted game. The odds of characters interacting with each other is very small. The social channels are rarely used. LFF is completely obsolete. The game looks and feels dead. The role players will more likely feel a tremendous shortage. many of the raiders are also PvPers to a fault, and with the death of kin-ships, (except for solo kinships, where you help others craft in the crafting hall, where all the soloers spend a good deal of their time; watching them blue bars fill.) Many PvPers find themselves without kinds, and go to some real PvP games.


    The game dies.... Turbine realizes that although the majority of accounts can be given to the soloers; the majority of play-time would be a lot more even. (Well before most everyone left. :-P) Turbine must do layoffs. Maybe we'll get to Gondor, but you can forget about Mordor, or a Shelob's lair raid. (I dream, but I don't hope. What? It is fun to imagine the tactics of beating Shelob, if YOU could design the ultimate Shelob's lair raid.)

    As for me, I'll be in the North Downs, and Angmar; not purchasing HD.

    Rift of Nurz Gashu is so much fun to try to 6-man, btw. Difficult, but what are we left with?
    Thank You for this, I haven’t logged on for months now, I’ve gotten into gw2 because it’s a MMO not a solo game.
    Anyway off topic. I woke up this morning thinking and missing my kinship who I spend hours and hours raiding with, I miss the good chats on vent and the great fun of the instances we did.
    I really miss the part of LOTRO that dew me in, and that was raiding and fighting the forces of evil with your kindred.
    Really good post I feel the same unfortunately my 40+ active members raiding kinship is down to 5 people.
    It’s sad and annoying that no one at turbine cares.

    To the casuals enjoy the solommo I guess.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by SensBeard View Post
    Thank You for this, I haven’t logged on for months now, I’ve gotten into gw2 because it’s a MMO not a solo game.
    Anyway off topic. I woke up this morning thinking and missing my kinship who I spend hours and hours raiding with, I miss the good chats on vent and the great fun of the instances we did.
    I really miss the part of LOTRO that dew me in, and that was raiding and fighting the forces of evil with your kindred.
    Really good post I feel the same unfortunately my 40+ active members raiding kinship is down to 5 people.
    It’s sad and annoying that no one at turbine cares.

    To the casuals enjoy the solommo I guess.
    I just can't take GW2 seriously with the terrible story it has. Other things in the game are pretty ridiculuous too. No mounts.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by SensBeard View Post
    It’s sad and annoying that no one at turbine cares.
    I don't think that no one at Turbine cares.

    I think that the situation is different.
    - There's a group of people who really enjoy making group content and who was lucky to find friends to make a "perfect group".
    - There's a group of people who enjoy making group content with random people.
    - There's a group of people who don't want to take effort to be a member of a perfect group and who don't want to group with random people (in general).

    I guess you are (or you were) a part of the "perfect group".
    If I undertsand it correctly, the first group of people is a small group of core players. This group is getting smaller and smaller for different reasons.
    The second type of grouping (random groups) is not really good implemented in LOTRO I guess.
    If I understand it correctly most players chose for third type of playing: play solo.

    You say: Turbine should make an effort to enlarge "perfect group" numbers. OK. Imagine, they spent a lot of time and money on it, they succeed and they increase the "perfect group" in-game percentage from 20% to ... 30% !!! Does it make sence for Turbine? No.

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khafar View Post
    Highly doubtful. The first year skirmishes existed, people ran them incessantly. I ran hundreds myself, and I'm a fairly casual player. Solo players ran them far more than groups (6X as often as 3-mans during the early months, for example), something you could see in the skirmish leader boards right from the start.

    Eventually, people did lose interest, in part because they stopped delivering new skirmishes. And if they don't deliver more Epic Battles over time, I'm sure people will lose interest in those too. I just don't think it'll be "a few weeks".

    Khafar
    I ran skirmishes a lot until they merged them into the group finder. The rewards were less unless I let the software randomly pick a skirmish. I never ran a skirmish again after that. This may have changed in future updates, but I never looked. I never understood what the point of that change was.
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  22. #122
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    I still run skirmishes, mostly solo. The IF does not matter to me. Yes, the IF improves some of the loot; but for those I mostly do them in pre-formed (usually kin only) runs.

    Some over-rate the fun of team play. To me, it is nothing special; and can be less fun than solo. Solo I know that I am going to have fun, for that's something I'll make for myself. Some team runs are a lot of fun, but most of those are with people who have gotten to know one another fairly well. I have made and lead some PuGs. These are a throw of the dice, fun-wise.
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    Indeed, in a world and life full of change, the only constant is human nature (A is A, after all :P).
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  23. #123
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    Game is dying

    Im glad you see people on your server. Mine is dead. Has been for years now. They NEED to merge the servers!!! Rift did, SWOTR did. It's ok it happens....but they seem to be to proud or stubborn to do it!
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0920d000000054cce/01008/signature.png]Beaverbeard[/charsig]

  24. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by stinkytofu View Post
    Im glad you see people on your server. Mine is dead. Has been for years now. They NEED to merge the servers!!! Rift did, SWOTR did. It's ok it happens....but they seem to be to proud or stubborn to do it!
    Well to be fair server merges are always a hard sell to make at the organizational level. For one there is the perception that mergers = DOOOOOOMMM across broad swaths of the genre pop spectrum. May or may not be true but that perception does have some collateral damage in acquiring new consumers.
    Secondly and perhaps more importantly the technical issues, specifically char/guild naming that is always a fun and quick <--sarcasm evolution.

    And specifically in LOTRO's case housing(this may or may not be a factor any longer, as I read somewhere they are doing/did/are planning a housing revamp; haven't logged in on 6 mo.)


    The industry standard for severer merges in recent years has been the genre's equivalent of closing the barn door after it burned down. That's not LOTRO specific that's the trend for all mmo's these days. By the time the decision gets made then implemented it usually accomplishes very little as the population has long since adjusted or left. Most are to busy trying to get a handle on why certain servers/games depopulated in the first place; consolidation is only effective long term if the player base on the other side remains stable and isn't still "leaking"

    You mentioned SWTOR did it; yes they did but they hadn't plugged the hole in the dike before they did so. If your pop is still departing above and beyond the normal churn prior to consolidation just becomes more blatant, and the player base starts re-evaluating longevity perceptions. SWTOR's equivalent to Brandywine (the Fatman) quickly started tanking after consolidation. The game actually accelerated a bit in sub loss post consolidation; they had been "almost" hovering a little below the million mark prior to that. Good/Bad/Ugly that's the consistent and measurable trend across the industry.

    Not as familiar with Rift but externally it looked to me they stabilized pop die-off prior to consolidation.

    I wouldn't look for any server merges till 3-6mo. after HD drops at the earliest tbh.
    Last edited by Skippa; Oct 31 2013 at 07:51 AM.

  25. #125
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    8,706
    Quote Originally Posted by mjk47 View Post
    It appears to be a commonly observed phenomenon that the player base of all MMOs is changing away from the original type of players who were first drawn to the genre.
    This is mostly true. However more important may be that every MMO has a shrinking player base over time (except maybe WoW which is an exception and no one will ever be able to replace them). So in every MMO you will see guilds shrink over time, the friends you were there with 5 years ago are now playing other things, and that's perfectly normal. However while all the games are shrinking they're not necessarily dying as fast as some people suppose. There are people who leave but there are also new players who show up. Sure, they're not the old friends, and they may not have the same total devotion to a preferred play style, but they do stand a good chance of becoming new friends.

    Note also that many of these players who enjoy the casual content and easier game play are players who have been here for six years! These are not just newcomers!

    In many ways I really prefer this to the old days. I didn't play that many older MMOs but they all had plenty of faults. Grouping in them was only for the elites, some games were full of crude players and inane chatter, lack of friendliness towards newcomers, game play was a grind (this game is nowhere near as grindy as the older games), and the game worlds were simplistic.

    And the good old days here were not necessarily that good at times. We've always had group leaders who were very picky about who'd they would invite to their groups, and achieving a perfect run to get gear was more important than building a community and helping out players who aren't as skilled or well geared up.

 

 
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