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  1. #1
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    Hmmmmm.... What is Turbine doing?

    I pre-ordered RoI on separate accounts. Unlike many on this server I enjoyed it, and was more than satisfied with update 5. When RoR came, I did not preorder. It look like a hoax. $70 for declining quests? I'd rather just play through the ND, and Angmar again with my friends. (IMO the funnest part of the game if you have a lot of friends to play with. Many hate Angmar because it isn't "solo friendly" and even the raiders avoid it and just power level because everyone tends to be at cap. Not me, I have people I can group with, so Angmar should be tons of fun. Reliving the old days of SoA.) Eventually I bought the instance pack, and the quests with tp when they were on sale. I was very sad to see the decline of the game.... Update 11 was just terrible. Knowing what turbine can do, I was disgusted. Now comes Helm's Deep. I am not so sure I'll even by the expansion when it is on sale half off.

    This is what I see. Slot machines, trait trees, (Pardon my bad language, but that is so WoW. Disgusting.) and worst of all, nothing to play with my friends when I get to Helm's Deep. So the vast majority of people play this MMORPG casually solo? First, MMORPG solo is an oxymoron. Second, I am not seeing these people. These people I see in one area, crafting halls. When I found someone soloing in the ND, I IMed him, and soon found out he was an alt of a grouper. I have seen little to nothing of the "vast majority of the player base." Why? Because they don't play often. So, suppose that most of the raiders, who have already left, play everyday on the games they play. Also suppose that the "Let's solo an MMO." people play once a week, or less. Suppose that many of these are f2p, and do not hand in money, but only do so when absolutely necessary. (I.E. expansions.)

    Why is turbine destroying the social bulk of the game. Most of these soloers are not on very often, many do not know of glff. (Why would they need to. They are soloing. :-P) When you make the player base ENTIRELY soloers (except for me and my group, moving through Carn Dum, reliving days past.) because there is NOTHING for people who want to play with friends, you get a deserted game. The odds of characters interacting with each other is very small. The social channels are rarely used. LFF is completely obsolete. The game looks and feels dead. The role players will more likely feel a tremendous shortage. many of the raiders are also PvPers to a fault, and with the death of kin-ships, (except for solo kinships, where you help others craft in the crafting hall, where all the soloers spend a good deal of their time; watching them blue bars fill.) Many PvPers find themselves without kinds, and go to some real PvP games.


    The game dies.... Turbine realizes that although the majority of accounts can be given to the soloers; the majority of play-time would be a lot more even. (Well before most everyone left. :-P) Turbine must do layoffs. Maybe we'll get to Gondor, but you can forget about Mordor, or a Shelob's lair raid. (I dream, but I don't hope. What? It is fun to imagine the tactics of beating Shelob, if YOU could design the ultimate Shelob's lair raid.)

    As for me, I'll be in the North Downs, and Angmar; not purchasing HD.

    Rift of Nurz Gashu is so much fun to try to 6-man, btw. Difficult, but what are we left with?
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0e2150100000339f2/signature.png]Grishmegbash[/charsig]
    Looks like meat's back on the menu boys, With Subway's NEW Meatball Marinara...
    Subway: eat flesh!

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronzesquire View Post
    So the vast majority of people play this MMORPG casually solo?
    I don't know if it's "vast" or not, but it's almost certainly a majority. That isn't unique to LOTRO either. Koster said 10 years ago that players will solo until the game stops giving them a choice - an exaggeration, but there's some truth in it. I certainly hope nobody's going to make an appeal for forced grouping.

    First, MMORPG solo is an oxymoron.
    Nonsense. "Solo" in this context means "solo adventuring", not "hermit". Solo adventuring is clearly the majority playstyle, in any MMO which allows it. Soloers interact with other players in all sorts of ways, from chatting to trading/buying/selling, helping others, joining social guilds (kinships), etc. They just don't spend much time adventuring in groups.

    When I found someone soloing in the ND, I IMed him, and soon found out he was an alt of a grouper.
    So you have a sample size of 1? Congratulations. You do realize that Turbine knows all of this without any of the uncertainty that you and I have, right? They can just pull it from their database, and see which accounts raid, and which don't - how much time is spent on various activities, etc. They do very extensive data mining in order to help them decide what to do, whether forum feedback lines up with reality on the ground, etc.

    I've pointed this out before, but once upon a time a much more raid/instance-centric game (WoW) was instrumented to give extensive (and comprehensive) data on all of the characters on a number of servers, 15-18 months after it shipped. This data was pulled on every character logged in, every 10 minutes, 24/7. What it found was quite surprising. Like... only 1 in 3 level-capped characters even set foot in a single raid during an entire month, and only half of those had stayed long enough to complete one raid. In a month. Those who raided "regularly" (3 or more in a month) were only a fraction of that 1/2 of 1/3. Etc. Many raiders flatly refused to believe it, because "everyone they knew" raided - an excellent example of self-selection bias. Yet it was true.

    Also suppose that the "Let's solo an MMO." people play once a week, or less. Suppose that many of these are f2p, and do not hand in money, but only do so when absolutely necessary. (I.E. expansions.)
    Those seem like very bad assumptions, and if true, you have to also assume that Turbine doesn't care if their flagship game crashes and burns. And that they must actually want more layoffs, since the ones they went through last year were so much fun.

    Uh huh. Sure.

    They're making decisions to try and give the most entertainment to the most people they can within their resource/budget constraints. That's what rational businesses do, and I see no reason to think they're any different. You might not like those decisions, but that doesn't make them wrong.

    Khafar
    Last edited by Khafar; Sep 16 2013 at 04:25 AM.

  3. #3
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    I have been playing this game for over 5 years, running 2 subscriptions and about 8 other Premium accounts. I have 3 kinships consisting only my characters, and I play every day for several (too many according to my wife) hours.

    So, my sample size of one would lead you to the opposite conclusion to the OP's.

    Neither is statistically valid. The only people who can draw any true conclusions are Turbine, and unless they are a suicidal organization, it seems improbable that they would pursue a path that guaranteed doom.


    • How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?

      Sherlock Holmes, The Sign of Four, Chap. 6, p. 111
    Last edited by mjk47; Sep 16 2013 at 09:29 AM.
    TANSTAAFL

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjk47 View Post
    I have been [laying this game for over 5 years, running 2 subscriptions and about 8 other Premium accounts. I have 3 kinships consisting only my characters, and I play every day for several (too many according to my wife) hours.

    So, my sample size of one would lead you to the opposite conclusion to the OP's.

    Neither is statistically valid. The only people who can draw any true conclusions are Turbine, and unless they are a suicidal organization, it seems improbable that they would pursue a path that guaranteed doom.


    • How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?

      Sherlock Holmes, The Sign of Four, Chap. 6, p. 111
    Obviously it is all subjective experience depending on each player, but from my point of view I have seen 90%+ of my friends leave the game in dusgust at the direction Turbine/WB have taken. All say the same things, "dumbed down", "Grindfest", "Greedy money grabbing", "don't listen to what players say", "don't fix bugs, but add &&&& content", etc, etc. I used to be in a kin with hundreds od members (players not just characters), now that kin has folded completly due to so few members still playing and I am in a new kin which is an amalgamation of the remaining players from 6 seperate kins, we have EIGHT members!

    It seems our experiences of what is happening to LotRO are quite different!

  5. #5
    I have had the same experience, Imladris at least a year ago, used to be very lively for a low pop. server, my kin was huge and did pretty much everything (raiding, crafting help, casual instances etc....) Activity died down a bit when RoI came out but it was tolerable, managed to get PUGs running quite easily. Then it all started to stagnate soon after RoR came out. You don't need to be a detective to realise that group activity is minimal now compared to a few years ago on the server, even in peak hours there are few calls for groups on LFF channels and most of the raiders have left. My Kin is still 30 pages strong but you never see more than 5 online at a time now, and all of our regular raiders have either quit or moved to hardcore raiding kins.

    Ever since activity died down I've stopped playing and have no motivation to buy HD if it's going to be a lacklustre as RoR, for me there is no joy in a solo experience in a MMORPG.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by FishFingers View Post
    I have had the same experience, Imladris at least a year ago, used to be very lively for a low pop. server, my kin was huge and did pretty much everything (raiding, crafting help, casual instances etc....) Activity died down a bit when RoI came out but it was tolerable, managed to get PUGs running quite easily. Then it all started to stagnate soon after RoR came out. You don't need to be a detective to realise that group activity is minimal now compared to a few years ago on the server, even in peak hours there are few calls for groups on LFF channels and most of the raiders have left. My Kin is still 30 pages strong but you never see more than 5 online at a time now, and all of our regular raiders have either quit or moved to hardcore raiding kins.
    .
    Same on Eldar. It used to be a very busy server. During weekends GLLF would generally be around 800 or so a few years ago, and 500-600 or so a year ago. Even in the great post moria, pre-f2p content lull it was well over 500. I logged in for a ride around a few areas on friday and sat night around 10pm GMT. GLFF was under 200 both times.

    I started off in The Shire, saw 2 people at the Farmers faire, rode to Evendim and around the lower half, saw no-one, same in the north downs and esteldin. I ported to Bree, saw one other person whilst running from one end to the other and looking around the Pony. Ported to 21st, no-one there, ported to Galtrev and saw one other person. Ported to Stangard, no-one there. Rode to Rohan and all around there, saw one person. Took about 1 1/2 hours, and I saw about 7 people during that entire time. The chat during that time consisted of one person asking in vain for others to do HoC, one person trying to sell something, and one person asking for others for another instance- a total of about 8 messages, and this was during what used to be a busy time on a weekend. It's a long way from when the 21st hall used to lag like crazy from all the people standing around both in the main hall and the auction bunker. Even at 1am, that was always busy with people at one point, same at Galtrev not that long ago.
    My kin had nobody online, both leaders hadn't been on for 5 months. At 3am on Sunday morning, there were 10 people on GLFF.
    A once busy server is pretty much a ghost town now. It's easier to find elite mobs now than it is other players in most areas. That's pretty sad.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by podgie_bear View Post
    It seems our experiences of what is happening to LotRO are quite different!
    Indeed, and that is the crux of the issue. It all depends on the relative proportions of the different sorts of players as to which of us is closer to the "norm".

    It appears to be a commonly observed phenomenon that the player base of all MMOs is changing away from the original type of players who were first drawn to the genre. They seem to have been very group-oriented, and you only have to read the many, many posts harking back to the "goold old days" to see that things used to be very different. MMOs have become the victims of their own success. As they have expanded their player base, they have tended to move to support an increasingly large community of more solo/casual oriented players.

    I have long held the opinion that LotRO is atypical in that it attracts a much larger proportion of people who are not long-term MMO players. They came here for the lore, and they do not share the same motivations as traditional MMO player, at least initially. Some of them will become "gamers", and others will not. The key difference is that those who become gamers are more likely to embrace other games, and if they become dissatified with LotRO may move elsewhere.

    For those whose only game is LotrO, that is just not an option. They are likely to be more tolerant of change, and also less affected by it as they have less investment with, and place less importance on the detailed mechanics that are so crucial to some other players.
    TANSTAAFL

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjk47 View Post
    It appears to be a commonly observed phenomenon that the player base of all MMOs is changing away from the original type of players who were first drawn to the genre.
    This is mostly true. However more important may be that every MMO has a shrinking player base over time (except maybe WoW which is an exception and no one will ever be able to replace them). So in every MMO you will see guilds shrink over time, the friends you were there with 5 years ago are now playing other things, and that's perfectly normal. However while all the games are shrinking they're not necessarily dying as fast as some people suppose. There are people who leave but there are also new players who show up. Sure, they're not the old friends, and they may not have the same total devotion to a preferred play style, but they do stand a good chance of becoming new friends.

    Note also that many of these players who enjoy the casual content and easier game play are players who have been here for six years! These are not just newcomers!

    In many ways I really prefer this to the old days. I didn't play that many older MMOs but they all had plenty of faults. Grouping in them was only for the elites, some games were full of crude players and inane chatter, lack of friendliness towards newcomers, game play was a grind (this game is nowhere near as grindy as the older games), and the game worlds were simplistic.

    And the good old days here were not necessarily that good at times. We've always had group leaders who were very picky about who'd they would invite to their groups, and achieving a perfect run to get gear was more important than building a community and helping out players who aren't as skilled or well geared up.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by podgie_bear View Post
    Obviously it is all subjective experience depending on each player, but from my point of view I have seen 90%+ of my friends leave the game in dusgust at the direction Turbine/WB have taken. All say the same things, "dumbed down", "Grindfest", "Greedy money grabbing", "don't listen to what players say", "don't fix bugs, but add &&&& content", etc, etc. I used to be in a kin with hundreds od members (players not just characters), now that kin has folded completly due to so few members still playing and I am in a new kin which is an amalgamation of the remaining players from 6 seperate kins, we have EIGHT members!

    It seems our experiences of what is happening to LotRO are quite different!
    Even though there are some forum goers that will say this is a small sample size or make excuses why this is happening, if I had a dollar for every time I heard this I'd be doing pretty good. The kinsmen I still talk to on face book use some of those words. Especially "don't listen to the players". Many felt slighted that the loot system problems have either been ignored or just plain accepted. Many of my own kin members have visited here in an attempt to at least get Turbine to make the current system better. Only to get the response: "we are not bringing the old system back". A kin tank and myself tried to get a simple teal wrist for tanking and spent countless hours farming it only to find out it was not dropping for guardians or wardens due to an error.

    Mounted Combat was another reason. The word gimmick being used alot. Some people highly objected to the slobbit machines. Some players found other games that offered more of the content they use. If I did not think this game could still be successful I wouldn't be here voicing my concerns. I don't think asking for on par xpacs is being too greedy. If you gave me x feature last xpac I would expect to get x's equivalent for same costing xpacs. It is not even reserved for the xpacs. Wildermore was in my eyes was a fraction of what we got for Great River. And in my opinion GR had better replayability.

    So go ahead and add me to this list 3 servers, 3 kins none has been as active as before ROR, all 3 had at minimum 30 active players during ROI. I'm not saying the game is dying but it would be a good thing for the developer to keep as many players happy as possible. And I'm tired of players justifying offering less features because it's good for business.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Khafar View Post
    I don't know if it's "vast" or not, but it's almost certainly a majority. That isn't unique to LOTRO either. Koster said 10 years ago that players will solo until the game stops giving them a choice - an exaggeration, but there's some truth in it. I certainly hope nobody's going to make an appeal for forced grouping.

    Nonsense. "Solo" in this context means "solo adventuring", not "hermit". Solo adventuring is clearly the majority playstyle, in any MMO which allows it. Soloers interact with other players in all sorts of ways, from chatting to trading/buying/selling, helping others, joining social guilds (kinships), etc. They just don't spend much time adventuring in groups.

    So you have a sample size of 1? Congratulations. You do realize that Turbine knows all of this without any of the uncertainty that you and I have, right? They can just pull it from their database, and see which accounts raid, and which don't - how much time is spent on various activities, etc. They do very extensive data mining in order to help them decide what to do, whether forum feedback lines up with reality on the ground, etc.

    I've pointed this out before, but once upon a time a much more raid/instance-centric game (WoW) was instrumented to give extensive (and comprehensive) data on all of the characters on a number of servers, 15-18 months after it shipped. This data was pulled on every character logged in, every 10 minutes, 24/7. What it found was quite surprising. Like... only 1 in 3 level-capped characters even set foot in a single raid during an entire month, and only half of those had stayed long enough to complete one raid. In a month. Those who raided "regularly" (3 or more in a month) were only a fraction of that 1/2 of 1/3. Etc. Many raiders flatly refused to believe it, because "everyone they knew" raided - an excellent example of self-selection bias. Yet it was true.

    Those seem like very bad assumptions, and if true, you have to also assume that Turbine doesn't care if their flagship game crashes and burns. And that they must actually want more layoffs, since the ones they went through last year were so much fun.

    Uh huh. Sure.

    They're making decisions to try and give the most entertainment to the most people they can within their resource/budget constraints. That's what rational businesses do, and I see no reason to think they're any different. You might not like those decisions, but that doesn't make them wrong.

    Khafar
    As per usual, Khafar has hit the nail on the head here. 100% agree. Excellent points.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/06203000000062b16/signature.png]Eldrenath[/charsig]

  11. #11
    If Turbine is targeting new players at the expense of existing long-time players it must mean that new players are more profitable. I suppose I can see that. New players are more apt than long-time players to buy store assets (as opposed to consumables) like Shared Storage, Stat Tomes, Virtues, etc. It's not that old players don't want that stuff, it's just that they've already purchased it and don't need more.

    Khafar is right though. It's pretty undeniable that end-game players are a small minority. If they were Turbine would be freakin irrational, and I don't believe they are irrational. Marketing 101 is all about segmenting your market. You don't want to compete with everyone on everything. You want to target specific niches and be the best at those to attract a customer base. Turbine has decided to target the casual segment. Guild Wars is very focused on the PvP segment. I suppose that RIFT is kind of in the raiding segment. WoW and TOR seem to still be targeting the whole MMO market. Segmenting the MMO market makes sense. As a "raider" I'm sorry to see Turbine leave those customers behind, but I can understand why they are doing it.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by bastiat1 View Post
    If Turbine is targeting new players at the expense of existing long-time players it must mean that new players are more profitable. I suppose I can see that. New players are more apt than long-time players to buy store assets (as opposed to consumables) like Shared Storage, Stat Tomes, Virtues, etc. It's not that old players don't want that stuff, it's just that they've already purchased it and don't need more...
    Old player here! I still buy store only passive skills & extra shared space. I feel like i can never have to much discount skills, stats improvement & space is never enought. I havent purchase all them yet. They are too expensive to buy all at once.
    Is this Alternate Playable Character Disorder? :

    Check my Kinship at Gladden server: The Fate of Middle Earth

  13. #13
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    you get irked 'cause people don't know how to play their class in a group. 'cause indeed they've soloed most
    you get level 85s going: ###? why don't you want ME in your level 20 or 30 instance
    you get spammed with: sammy pls

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by YamydeAragon View Post
    Old player here! I still buy store only passive skills & extra shared space. I feel like i can never have to much discount skills, stats improvement & space is never enought. I havent purchase all them yet. They are too expensive to buy all at once.
    Another old player here. I guarantee i spend more than 95% of players on this game.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khafar View Post
    I don't know if it's "vast" or not, but it's almost certainly a majority. That isn't unique to LOTRO either. Koster said 10 years ago that players will solo until the game stops giving them a choice - an exaggeration, but there's some truth in it. I certainly hope nobody's going to make an appeal for forced grouping.

    Nonsense. "Solo" in this context means "solo adventuring", not "hermit". Solo adventuring is clearly the majority playstyle, in any MMO which allows it. Soloers interact with other players in all sorts of ways, from chatting to trading/buying/selling, helping others, joining social guilds (kinships), etc. They just don't spend much time adventuring in groups.

    So you have a sample size of 1? Congratulations. You do realize that Turbine knows all of this without any of the uncertainty that you and I have, right? They can just pull it from their database, and see which accounts raid, and which don't - how much time is spent on various activities, etc. They do very extensive data mining in order to help them decide what to do, whether forum feedback lines up with reality on the ground, etc.

    I've pointed this out before, but once upon a time a much more raid/instance-centric game (WoW) was instrumented to give extensive (and comprehensive) data on all of the characters on a number of servers, 15-18 months after it shipped. This data was pulled on every character logged in, every 10 minutes, 24/7. What it found was quite surprising. Like... only 1 in 3 level-capped characters even set foot in a single raid during an entire month, and only half of those had stayed long enough to complete one raid. In a month. Those who raided "regularly" (3 or more in a month) were only a fraction of that 1/2 of 1/3. Etc. Many raiders flatly refused to believe it, because "everyone they knew" raided - an excellent example of self-selection bias. Yet it was true.

    Those seem like very bad assumptions, and if true, you have to also assume that Turbine doesn't care if their flagship game crashes and burns. And that they must actually want more layoffs, since the ones they went through last year were so much fun.

    Uh huh. Sure.

    They're making decisions to try and give the most entertainment to the most people they can within their resource/budget constraints. That's what rational businesses do, and I see no reason to think they're any different. You might not like those decisions, but that doesn't make them wrong.

    Khafar

    Alot of what you say is true but cutting raids completely and replacing them with big battles is just too much. There might be majority soloers but there is still a number of raiders in the game.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by sakisman View Post
    Alot of what you say is true but cutting raids completely and replacing them with big battles is just too much. There might be majority soloers but there is still a number of raiders in the game.
    Well who is to say the epic battles in 12 man modes aren't great raids. Mind you i'm not saying they are but we have pretty little information to actually judge as of now.
    Last edited by Thorwyn99; Sep 18 2013 at 12:28 PM.
    Nothing here matters.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khafar View Post
    I don't know if it's "vast" or not, but it's almost certainly a majority. That isn't unique to LOTRO either. Koster said 10 years ago that players will solo until the game stops giving them a choice - an exaggeration, but there's some truth in it. I certainly hope nobody's going to make an appeal for forced grouping.

    Nonsense. "Solo" in this context means "solo adventuring", not "hermit". Solo adventuring is clearly the majority playstyle, in any MMO which allows it. Soloers interact with other players in all sorts of ways, from chatting to trading/buying/selling, helping others, joining social guilds (kinships), etc. They just don't spend much time adventuring in groups.

    So you have a sample size of 1? Congratulations. You do realize that Turbine knows all of this without any of the uncertainty that you and I have, right? They can just pull it from their database, and see which accounts raid, and which don't - how much time is spent on various activities, etc. They do very extensive data mining in order to help them decide what to do, whether forum feedback lines up with reality on the ground, etc.

    I've pointed this out before, but once upon a time a much more raid/instance-centric game (WoW) was instrumented to give extensive (and comprehensive) data on all of the characters on a number of servers, 15-18 months after it shipped. This data was pulled on every character logged in, every 10 minutes, 24/7. What it found was quite surprising. Like... only 1 in 3 level-capped characters even set foot in a single raid during an entire month, and only half of those had stayed long enough to complete one raid. In a month. Those who raided "regularly" (3 or more in a month) were only a fraction of that 1/2 of 1/3. Etc. Many raiders flatly refused to believe it, because "everyone they knew" raided - an excellent example of self-selection bias. Yet it was true.

    Those seem like very bad assumptions, and if true, you have to also assume that Turbine doesn't care if their flagship game crashes and burns. And that they must actually want more layoffs, since the ones they went through last year were so much fun.

    Uh huh. Sure.

    They're making decisions to try and give the most entertainment to the most people they can within their resource/budget constraints. That's what rational businesses do, and I see no reason to think they're any different. You might not like those decisions, but that doesn't make them wrong.

    Khafar
    O.K. I apologize for my sample size of 1. Like most, I am aware that you need a sample size of 3 for significance, and only if they fall in nearly a straight line. (Also when subject to outliers, these can instantly be made either insignificant, or significant. However, you've all heard the posts about what has been happening to Imladris. Vilya has survived, but others have not, so me and my friends just started from scratch there. We won't power level, but we will be back to where we were. I could argue that I did not have time to find more samples of soloers, but that is all subject to a selection bias. I found a raider on the landscape (a seemingly unselected zone, or even biased against raiders.) but the crafting hall is biased, as crafting toons, and soloers seem to be there more often.

    Again, I have to take what I can get, and I made an inference based on what I was seeing. I apologize for my fears of the games peril, but with so many kins dying, it seems rational for me to claim this. I honestly don't know how much of the population is dropping, but the kin world is the world I live in. As shown before, I have not seen much of anything of the soloers' world. I do not know their perspective.

    My conclusions were based on a dying server. (Or as I and others have observed.) I am now working with others. I honestly still do not know if I wish to purchase Helm's Deep. The sad truth is, while I know there are many games out there for "my type." I don't like them. I migrated here from WoW because I was fed up with #1 Wizard of Oz characters as major raid bosses. #2 All the flash. Honestly, I hate the flashy-nees of WoW. The LoTRO graphics are SO GOOD, and not painful for the eyes. I loved the game, during the SoM days, I was in a lucky position. I started pugging ye old Fornost, and Angmar instances. There was an amazing raid population. I recommended 3 friends to switch to this game. They all did. Some people can be a pain, but those people were also a foreign concept in regards to LoTRO

    When I started the forum, I was worried. I am a raider, but finding a not flashy/annoying MMORPG that still has a system as good as this, and a player population to back it up will prove difficult. That is why I stay. I have not lost all faith in turbine, because I tend to hold a lower standard than most raiders. (Difficulty, for me, is still essential. If my group doesn't wipe the first go, or it just becomes unenjoy-able (Spending time with your friends?? Unenjoyable? Yeah. Talking via skype in a big group with a raid to talk about is great, but when everyone is just frustrated after we've won, it leaves a bad overall feeling.)

    I am sorry I made biases about soloers. In my mind, they seem to not exist. Keep in mind, I am looking for players on the landscape or randomly encounter them. I know the formula. IF I go to Bree, THEN I will find players. (The same applies for the smaller metropoli (hehe.) of Lotro, but Bree seems to always be there, since launch.)
    But they do exist, and I am well aware of it because turbine has told me so to explain what they were doing. Yes, it is called marketing. However, from my perspective, turbine's marketing to another group causes them to do things I not only don't like, but I absolutely loathe. (We are also talking about slot-machines, and trait trees. (As far as I am concerned, trait trees were a pain in my WoW experience (which was brief.)) but are talking, more particularly about their direction regarding group content.) At this point, it is almost like I am "at war," if you will (Granted, there is very little to do in the war but state your opinion on the forums, and the result of the forums has little to no affect of the objective in mind.) This makes sense because the other side, and what they do to the game seem foreign. Therefore, they act like a foreign country, and negative stereotypes will be created based on observations made of the game.


    So what are we to make of all of this????? The bottom line is that I am a moderately long term player who does not feel like purchasing for an expansion with the direction they are going. I still have friends. We will still play LoTRO. (Granted we can't find something that meets my ridiculous requirements. (Considering how I do not want to buy their expansions, I still find LoTRO hard to top. I could go on for hours about how absolutely unplayable other MMOs are. Let's not even get into MMORPGs on console video games, I could rant about those for days.) I just wonder what turbine is doing? Why so many players are disappearing, being replaced by ones I rarely ever see.








    "My power is discombobulatingly devastating. It is ludicrous that these mortal dare enter my realm."
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0e2150100000339f2/signature.png]Grishmegbash[/charsig]
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Bronzesquire View Post
    So the vast majority of people play this MMORPG casually solo? First, MMORPG solo is an oxymoron.
    Two things you need to understand. First, you have a limited point of view. Do you play on every server all day long? I think not. Second, 95% of the game is designed to be played solo. You and I might group to complete it, but you can do nearly everything solo. Open your quest panel, click on a quest and you will see the vast majority of quests are designed to be completed solo. That is no different than any other MMO I have ever played. The best part about this game is that they don't restrict a lot of the content. If you have a full fellowship, you can still do a large amount of solo quests, faster and easier than people soloing. Only have a full fellowship, you can still give the rift a shot.

    You shouldn't complain that this game isn't restrictive enough, it wouldn't be what it is if everything were designed one way or the other.

  19. #19
    Sapience is offline Former Community Manager & Harbinger of Soon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronzesquire View Post
    nothing to play with my friends when I get to Helm's Deep.
    Epic Battles support group sizes of 1, 2, 3, 6, and 12.

  20. #20
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    Im just here to answer the question in the title...

    Ghmm... They be doing da cha-cha..yes da cha-cha

    ............And im off
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    Epic Battles support group sizes of 1, 2, 3, 6, and 12.
    We've been told that it does not support the same size configuration in all spaces.

    It is entirely possible that we won't be able to bring the group size we want to the space we want.

    Hopefully this doesnt happen often.
    Crell-L85-Champion - Riddermark ; Swego-L85-Burglar ; Kotvi-L95-Runekeeper
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  22. #22
    Sapience is offline Former Community Manager & Harbinger of Soon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crell_1 View Post
    We've been told that it does not support the same size configuration in all spaces.

    It is entirely possible that we won't be able to bring the group size we want to the space we want.

    Hopefully this doesnt happen often.
    This is true, and not inconsistent with how we have presented instanced content (like instance clusters) in the past.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    This is true, and not inconsistent with how we have presented instanced content (like instance clusters) in the past.
    True. With all of the parallels to skirmishes being made around the forums , I felt it was an appropriate point to make.

    I am however encouraged that each of the size configurations is supposed to be built from the ground up mechanically, rather than just attempting to scale encounters within them.

    Hopefully they leave us all impressed, because it's the defining new 'feature' of this expansion.
    Crell-L85-Champion - Riddermark ; Swego-L85-Burglar ; Kotvi-L95-Runekeeper
    Delego-L85 Hunter ; Stodden-L51-Captain ; Edhul-L61-Loremaster
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bronzesquire View Post
    nothing to play with my friends when I get to Helm's Deep.
    Epic Battles support group sizes of 1, 2, 3, 6, and 12.
    Not only that, but available at level ten means you don't even have to "get to Helm's Deep", just buy the expansion, spend an hour leveling a character out of the intro or afk craft to level ten, then jump into Big Battles with friends/strangers, no need to purchase any other regions, unlock or buy anything for your character.

    It might help to log in daily for the slot machine to give you better armour though. ;-)
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJFerret View Post
    Not only that, but available at level ten means you don't even have to "get to Helm's Deep", just buy the expansion, spend an hour leveling a character out of the intro or afk craft to level ten, then jump into Big Battles with friends/strangers, no need to purchase any other regions, unlock or buy anything for your character.

    It might help to log in daily for the slot machine to give you better armour though. ;-)
    Which is why I think the way Big Battles have been implemented is smart and clever. This game can do well with new blood in it's community.

    I'm also going to say something really wierd: Big Battles could be sweet for raiding kins. As a recruiting ground! There will be an influx of new blood to LOTRO, and that will bring a fresh breeze to this community, including raiding kins.

    But much of the fate of raiding kins hinges on the way loot is distributed. It's safe to say that the RNG dominated mechanism has alienated a substantial part of the raiding community.

    Still, I eagerly await some good press about Big Battles! Bring it on!

    Joining dates 11-2013 or 12-2013 may become a defining population. Mind my words.

 

 
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