We have detected that cookies are not enabled on your browser. Please enable cookies to ensure the proper experience.
Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4
Results 76 to 100 of 100
  1. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinkhan View Post
    So, for all you people telling me, so long, ha ha, so long yourselves. 80 million lawsuit still does not give Warner Brothers and Turbine the right to keep this game going for one single day more and it will only be a matter of time perhaps before a court order is made ordering a cease and desist against LOTRO.

    Put that in your pipe and smoke it!
    I plan to! I do hope we'll be seeing lots more long-winded unhinged rants against Warner Bros., complete with links and court filings.

    Definitely make sure to keep us up-to-date on your lawsuit's progress. I'm sure the Thomas More Law Center will jump at the chance to represent your clearly righteous interests!

  2. #77
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    105
    Lotro is a part of it, that is why i posted the friggen text copy from the actual lawsuit document! Try reading it. The LOTRO mods are just trying to do damage control and lie to people and say that the lawsuit only talks about online gambling. NO! There are two seperate sections of this lawsuit and the first one is nothing but LOTRO! Read it again since you are only trying to lie to people.

    http://www-deadline-com.vimg.net/wp-...1120024937.pdf

    However, in recent years, and particularly in the aftermath of the
    unprecedented financial and critical success of the Films, defendants have, with
    increasing boldness, engaged in a continuing and escalating pattern of usurping
    rights to which they are not entitled — rights which belong exclusively to plaintiffs.
    For example, although their limited merchandising license only gives them the right
    to sell tangible merchandise, defendants have developed, licensed and/or sold (and
    continue to develop, license and/or sell) downloadable video games based on The
    Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit, available only by downloading and/or access via
    the Internet, via mobile apps, tablet apps or other similar digital distribution
    channels, or through other online interconnectivity such as Facebook. There is no
    physical or tangible item of merchandise sold to the consumer with these games.

  3. #78
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    105
    Warner Brothers is getting sued for 80 million dollars for creating online gaming content to include LOTRO. That is why they keep making this game all about the money.

    30 day 100 percent xp bonus! What a joke. All they are doing in my opinion is trying to suck this game dry before the lawsuit shuts it down completely because they never had the rights to make an online game of LOTRO to begin with according to the suit.

  4. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinkhan View Post
    Lotro is a part of it, that is why i posted the friggen text copy from the actual lawsuit document! Try reading it. The LOTRO mods are just trying to do damage control and lie to people and say that the lawsuit only talks about online gambling. NO! There are two seperate sections of this lawsuit and the first one is nothing but LOTRO! Read it again since you are only trying to lie to people.
    And WB is counter-suing (see: http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2013...moves-forward/).

    And it's over slot machines, not MMOs. This is nothing but two billionaires suing each other. It has nothing to do with LOTRO. But I really am enjoying your insane fixation. Please proceed.

  5. #80
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    389
    They're sueing over onlien gambling slot machines and the physical slot machines.

    LOTRO does have CD purchase options hence has always dodged all of the many lawsuits the past few years because it can if you shop around, provide tangible product.

    LOTRO never once received any lawsuit, and like most lawsuits done by tolkien estate, they'll settle, shake hands and walk off - games still running. They're just after missing royalties in the end, they just colourfully word things, but in the end they always cave take a small payout and walk off. Time and time again.

    Hows your little lawsuit going btw?

  6. #81
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    389
    Except LOTRO does offer options for tangible product (isntallation cd's fall under tangible product under current law - hence also why EA was able to produce so many games without much issue also - isntallation cds), hence why its survived during past Tolkien Estate escapades - this is far from the first.

    Strange how you keep skipping that part of any of my comments - which is where your research is failing.

    I have LOTRO:SOA isntallation discs, manual, a little collectors edition figurine, LOTRO:MoM installation cd's, map, calendar, figurine....tangible product by law.

    Also in europe there was thousands of offical RoR boxes with isntallation cd's sold. - tangible product.

    The lawsuit is over digital gambling games with no tangible product, little iPhone apps with no tangible product and so on.

    Where you're misunderstanding is the title Lord of the Rings online games.....they're talkign about the above, not Lord of the Rings Online tiself - simple mistranslation they're talkign abotu products which all onyl exist online - hence Lord of the Rings - onlien games, not Lord of the Rings Online TM.

    And LOTRO does exist outside of the internet, it takes up a healthy space of my bookshelf with its tangible products.

  7. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinkhan View Post
    That means LOTRO if you can't actually read leagaleze
    You seem to really want to make more of this lawsuit than it is, for reasons known only to yourself. The Tolkien Estate has an (entirely earned) reputation as extremely litigious. They're always suing someone for a payoff since JRR sold off most of the their media rights for pennies, and they're still pissed about it.

    Whatever, man. You don't respond to anyone anyway, and all you seem to want to do is rant. As such, you've become a very boring loon.

  8. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinkhan View Post
    That means LOTRO if you can't actually read leagaleze
    Whatever it means I let the lawyers figure out.

    There is a counter claim there from both Warner and Saul Zaentz.

    I guess we can see a couple more expansions until this lawsuit is settled one way or the other.

    Also the basis is to not have any tangible merchandise which - since LOTRO is available as physical discs as well - leaves a lot of room for interpretation in addition to having a statement that video games do fall under the license that Saul Zaentz acquired from the original deal in 1969.

    Overall I am pretty sure that Warner does not shiver much.
    I will probably play this game until it shuts down. Or I might not if one day I do not like it anymore.
    But I guess then I would just move on like I did with other MMOs that I stopped playing.

  9. #84
    Just wanted to step in for a moment and say my little piece. All these pages have been complaints, arguments, and fights over something that is not going to change. The poor horse has been beaten enough already, let him be.

    If, after pages and pages of arguing, you're still unhappy, go eat a cookie.

    If you are fine with the decision, go enjoy LOTRO and play your heart out, you won't regret it!

  10. #85
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    105
    Past legal cases are not pertinent to this case. This case, which I posted the case document of, is stating that Warner Brothers does not have the right to create digital content and online games. That means LOTRO for you slow people. The counter suit is Warner Brothers claiming that because of the lawsuit, they had to cancel their gambling and slot machine agreements and that the Tolkien Estate is responsible for the cancellation and the money lost from it. Ha, no judge in the world is going to side with Warner Brothers on that one. They never had the rights to create online LOTRO Gambling in the first place. The joke here is Warner Brothers, not the Tolkien Estate.

    Yes, I have reviewed the other lawsuits and so far, the Tolkien Estate has won every single time. They chose to settle the cases eventually instead of push them.

    But this one is different. The Tolkien Estate wants 80 million for breach of rights. That's it. They are stating that Warner Brothers does not have the right to even create LOTRO or run it or any other digital content. A DVD is not classified as a physical product, but a digital one. I can't believe that you friggen people even tried to make that claim. What a joke! Besides, if you ever actually bothered to read your LOTRO license agreement you would know that you are not buying or owning any software at all. When you buy an expansion you are not buying merchandise, even if it is shipped on a CD or DVD. It is merchandise to the store that you bought it from, but to LOTRO and Warner Brothers you are buying the right to "use Warner Brothers and Turbine's software". You don't own a damn thing except the physical disk and other materials. The game itself is the digital content that Warner Brothers (and Turbine) apparently do not have the rights too. The expansion that you "bought" is only the rights to use software that Warner Brothers and Turbine own, not you.

    So, just like the other cases that I did research, I fully expect that the Tolkien Estate will win this one as well. Why? Here is the history of what went down.

    Turbine licensed what they thought was the rights to create LOTRO from a company called The Saul Zaentz Company. The Saul Zaentz Company owns a company called Middle-Earth Enterprises. Turbine acquired a "Merchandising" license from Middle-Earth Enterprises. If you notice, The Saul Zaentz Company and Middle Earth Enterprises are named in the suit. Here is the link and the copy:

    http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/sit..._Complaint.pdf

    THE SAUL ZAENTZ COMPANY
    IN-C. d/b/a Middle-earth Enterprises, a Delaware corporation; and
    DOES 1-10, inclusive,
    In this suit, Tolkien Estate is claiming that Saul Zaentz and Middle Earth enterprises never actually had the right to license digital content and therefore could not give those rights to others. Here is the Middle Earth Website where Turbine bought their so called "Merchandising" rights.

    http://www.middleearth.com/licensing_contacts.html

    The Tolkien Estate is claiming (and could obviously prove) that those original merchandising rights that Middle Earth Enterprises sold to Turbine never actually included digital content or online gaming. That is the crux of this suit. They simply waited until Warner Brothers owned turbine and other "merchandising rights" before deciding to sue anyone for any money gained from rights that were never actually granted. Bear in mind, at this point, Warner Brothers and Turbine (according to claim) are running and creating this game without any actual legal ability to do so under license. That's friggen huge.

    At this point, the suit must first establish that Warner Brothers, Middle-Earth Enterprises never actually had the rights first and get awarded any judgments from it before generally being able to force Warner Brothers to shut down LOTRO and any other digital content and online gaming of any kind. But I may be wrong there. What they want now is to establish that no one owns the rights to digital LOTR content first and get money from it. If that goes their way, then Warner Brothers would have to re-negotiate for digital rights and guess what, that may never happen at all.

    In short, yes, LOTRO could be finished any day now. But, I am not involved in the case, so, I don't know how its going.
    Last edited by Sinkhan; Oct 22 2013 at 04:15 AM.

  11. #86
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Yorkshire UK
    Posts
    863
    Quote Originally Posted by Lashmore View Post
    I have LOTRO:SOA isntallation discs, manual, a little collectors edition figurine, LOTRO:MoM installation cd's, map, calendar, figurine....tangible product by law.

    Also in europe there was thousands of offical RoR boxes with isntallation cd's sold. - tangible product.

    ---------------------------------

    From the PDF.

    For example, although their limited merchandising license only gives them the right
    to sell tangible merchandise, defendants have developed, licensed and/or sold (and
    continue to develop, license and/or sell) downloadable video games based on The
    Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit, available only by downloading and/or access via
    the Internet,


    ---------------------------------


    Where's the tangible product for Helms Deep though? Wouldn't that fall under the category of available only by downloading and/or access via the internet? It doesn't sit with the 'only gives them the right to sell tangible merchandise' part. I suppose it depends whether it's classed legally as a separate product from the original SoA edition. It's certainly sold as a separate product and doesn't require purchase of any previous edition to play it. I suppose it would need a contract lawyer ( or several ) to spend some time looking over the finer points to get some kind of accurate assessment.

    It's pretty clear that this isn't just about gambling though, as that is an additional section further to the online games section. It seems they are going both after online games, and gambling as two different aspects, rather than having to fulfil both criteria. Whether they would win no-one knows, but it sounds like they are going to have a go.

  12. #87
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    389
    Quote Originally Posted by monteeburns View Post
    ---------------------------------

    From the PDF.

    For example, although their limited merchandising license only gives them the right
    to sell tangible merchandise, defendants have developed, licensed and/or sold (and
    continue to develop, license and/or sell) downloadable video games based on The
    Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit, available only by downloading and/or access via
    the Internet,


    ---------------------------------


    Where's the tangible product for Helms Deep though? Wouldn't that fall under the category of available only by downloading and/or access via the internet? It doesn't sit with the 'only gives them the right to sell tangible merchandise' part. I suppose it depends whether it's classed legally as a separate product from the original SoA edition. It's certainly sold as a separate product and doesn't require purchase of any tangible material to play it. I suppose it would need a contract lawyer ( or several ) to spend some time looking over the finer points to get some kind of accurate assessment.

    It's pretty clear that this isn't just about gambling though, as that is an additional section further to the online games section. It seems they are going both after online games, and gambling as two different aspects, rather than having to fulfil both criteria. Whether they would win no-one knows, but it sounds like they are going to have a go.
    There is no requirement for tangible product until official release dates, and Europe usually gets boxed sets earlier than other countries (RoR for example I think was solely EU boxed set wise) yet as these are digital add-ons to an original product, well like you said who knows. Think of it like a trailer or preview - pre purchasing a movie ticket before seeing a movie, you receive the actual product when the movie is released the tangible object being the movie ticket in your hands when you show up to theatre.

    The fact remains, once both parties talk properly in all cases they usually have settled for a payout of "lost royalties" and Christopher goes back to his little hobbit hole for a few more years.

    Thank you for a sensible reply, your the first one who's been loosely on the side of ...well the other guy, (who lets emotion and personal bias guide his tongue) therefore I read your reply, I've given up reading his.

    ----

    Now ona slightly different note, when one listens to the true core of Christopher and his army of lawyers and board reasonings behind their consistent Witchhunts, they truly do contradict themselves.

    Christopher feels these digital mediums and movies are weakening the quality of his fathers works and books. He feels the books deserve more than that due to the quality of work..etc etc

    However whenever presented with comments akin to - "these movies and games have brought millions of peoplewho were unaware of your fathers works to go buy and read the original books, which they would not have if they had not seen the movie or discovered the games - has not these mediums brought a greater readership to the original source material?"--- they will not answer.

    Then look at how all lawsuits end with royalty payments done in a lump sum form, 2+2=just money grabbing, they don't really care as hard as their hired lawyers do.

  13. #88
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    South Tyrol, sadly in Italy
    Posts
    4,242
    Sapience already stated that this time there won't be released a boxed version.
    Last time they released one for 2 markets where retail versions still have a strong market presence, but this time they don't plan to do that.

    I was disappointed that the last boxed version had different rewards from the online version. Not all rewards from the boxed version were in the Legendary online version.
    They had different cloak sets, different war steed outfits (boxed: red, online: green) and the boxed version had both the green and red standard steed, the online version only had the green version.

  14. #89
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Yorkshire UK
    Posts
    863
    Quote Originally Posted by Lashmore View Post
    There is no requirement for tangible product until official release dates, and Europe usually gets boxed sets earlier than other countries (RoR for example I think was solely EU boxed set wise) yet as these are digital add-ons to an original product, well like you said who knows. Think of it like a trailer or preview - pre purchasing a movie ticket before seeing a movie, you receive the actual product when the movie is released the tangible object being the movie ticket in your hands when you show up to theatre.
    It sounds like this time for almost everybody it will be digital only as Neumi said. I'm almost surprised that WB didn't make their slots give out a picture of a random lotr character with each dollar, just to circumvent the tangible product bit!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lashmore View Post
    The fact remains, once both parties talk properly in all cases they usually have settled for a payout of "lost royalties" and Christopher goes back to his little hobbit hole for a few more years.

    Now ona slightly different note, when one listens to the true core of Christopher and his army of lawyers and board reasonings behind their consistent Witchhunts, they truly do contradict themselves
    Everytime I hear Christopher Tolkien mentioned he seems to be suing someone over something, and like you say seems to change his tune according to how the dollars potentially fall. The really confusing thing here is it's two seperate issues, one involving just WB and one potentially involving Turbine and WB. WB do seem to have taken the proverbial hiss with the gambling machines, and after shutting down MERP it's hard to feel too much sympathy for them if they got given a black eye in similar circumstances. It wouldn't be a huge surprise if WB knew exactly the terms but decided to push their luck with the slots thinking they were too big for Tolkien Enterprises to take on. The only people who would mourn the loss of LOTR slots would be the WB accountants. ]
    It would be a shame for Turbine to get stung over this one though, as presumably they bought the license in good faith back in the day. Should it get to that stage, I'm guessing it would be left for Turbine ( or WB ) to sue Saul Zaentz in order to recover the losses, if the license had been mis-sold to them.
    Sounds like a nightmare for whoever has to sort that mess out should it get that far. It'll be interesting to see what happens though. As always the only certain winners will be the lawyers.
    Last edited by monteeburns; Oct 22 2013 at 05:23 AM.

  15. #90
    why sue lotro now after years of it being online?
    ASUS P8Z77-V LK - Quad Core i5 3470 3.20GHz - 8Gb RAM - GTX 660 Ti 2GB (SLI) - Windows 10 64-bit

  16. #91
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    The Prancing Pony, usually I'm drunk in a corner
    Posts
    3,375
    Quote Originally Posted by charmtrap View Post
    I plan to! I do hope we'll be seeing lots more long-winded unhinged rants against Warner Bros., complete with links and court filings.

    Definitely make sure to keep us up-to-date on your lawsuit's progress. I'm sure the Thomas More Law Center will jump at the chance to represent your clearly righteous interests!
    Now we're going down a serious path!

    Don't shut LoTRO down. End of it.
    Did everyone get a bugged signature? My BB code doesn't work anymore
    ____________________________

    Glorgnorbor, A Rock And A Hard Place, Stop by our Friday music shows! 4PM EST at the Bree West Gate on Dwarrowdelf!
    If a Malledhrim Soldier dies alone in the forest because of canceled quest, will it make a sound? ~Leixy

  17. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Lashmore View Post
    Except LOTRO does offer options for tangible product (isntallation cd's fall under tangible product under current law - hence also why EA was able to produce so many games without much issue also - isntallation cds), hence why its survived during past Tolkien Estate escapades - this is far from the first.

    Strange how you keep skipping that part of any of my comments - which is where your research is failing.

    I have LOTRO:SOA isntallation discs, manual, a little collectors edition figurine, LOTRO:MoM installation cd's, map, calendar, figurine....tangible product by law.

    Also in europe there was thousands of offical RoR boxes with isntallation cd's sold. - tangible product.

    The lawsuit is over digital gambling games with no tangible product, little iPhone apps with no tangible product and so on.

    Where you're misunderstanding is the title Lord of the Rings online games.....they're talkign about the above, not Lord of the Rings Online tiself - simple mistranslation they're talkign abotu products which all onyl exist online - hence Lord of the Rings - onlien games, not Lord of the Rings Online TM.

    And LOTRO does exist outside of the internet, it takes up a healthy space of my bookshelf with its tangible products.

    I agree with you, that the lawsuit has much more to do with other games than lotro. However, it would appear that they aren't very happy with Warner Brothers overall. Which to me, is interesting. Brings about a guilty by association feel, and perhaps it's a marraige the Tolkein estate would like to end. Doesn't mean they have the legal rights to do so.

  18. #93
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    missouri
    Posts
    2,469
    Hmmm, anyone else remember a while back when a certain review site published a fake story about litigation and some one came on here daily spamming about it. Didn't mater how often that person got banned, they were back on and spamming about it.

    It's like some one hanging over the side of a ship with a cutting torch and saying " look there is a hole in the boat".

  19. #94
    Who cares? It's just a blasted game. Complaining about how someone runs a game is just flat stupid. If you don't like it, run away...far away.

    There's a whole world out there with other things you can do. Step away from the computer and experience it.

  20. #95
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    My Coop
    Posts
    409
    Quote Originally Posted by manstan View Post
    It's like some one hanging over the side of a ship with a cutting torch and saying " look there is a hole in the boat".
    I think the 'some one' is pretty obvious since they are on multiple threads spewing the same stuff. If I was really concerned with legalities I certainly wouldn't be reading on these forums about it! Nor the Hollywood Reporter! The forums are like the 'Speaker's corner' in Hyde Park, you can say anything you want but most people realize it is often someone that just wants attention.

  21. #96
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Yorkshire UK
    Posts
    863
    Quote Originally Posted by manstan View Post
    Hmmm, anyone else remember a while back when a certain review site published a fake story about litigation and some one came on here daily spamming about it. Didn't mater how often that person got banned, they were back on and spamming about it.
    .
    I didn't see the fake story, and don't know if it's the same guy, but this definitely isn't fake, it's been published on most of the big news channels, includng the BBC, who certainly don't fake anything, and the PDF he posted appears to be the same one in this video.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-20422388

  22. #97
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Gallifrey. I need a Jelly Baby.
    Posts
    18,604
    Quote Originally Posted by manstan View Post
    Hmmm, anyone else remember a while back when a certain review site published a fake story about litigation and some one came on here daily spamming about it. Didn't mater how often that person got banned, they were back on and spamming about it.

    It's like some one hanging over the side of a ship with a cutting torch and saying " look there is a hole in the boat".

    I remember that guy!
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
    Continuing the never ending battle to keep Lobelia Sackville-Baggins in check

  23. #98
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    1,134
    Quote Originally Posted by Lohi View Post
    It just looks like there's a set of nostalgia glasses being worn. Old stuff is better because it's older, new stuff that does the same thing is not as good because it's new. I understand that sentiment very well because I have it too in many cases.
    Wrong. Perhaps there should be a Godwin's Corollary regarding the word "nostalgia." I've noticed that whenever anyone uses that word, they are off on a tangent with no logical relevance to the conversation.

    Fact: Moria was released before Free to Pay so having the epic line gated then is part and parcel to how releases worked.

    Fact: The statement about the epic line always being free came as a result of Free to Pay to appease concerns of the Free to Payers

    Fact: Many of the originally released zones have been revamped to ease access, provide less traveling to quest givers and to make completing the quests easier.

    There's no "nostalgia" to any of that, and to claim that there is, is disingenuous at best. The game has changed and many like myself have not liked the changes. Most of those awful changes are related to gating content through the Turbine Store alongside all of the store only items. Content quantity in each release after Free to Pay has been vastly reduced from those that came before, and have had far more bugs than the worst of them. You can list the suspected reasons why that is, but that's irrelevant. The fact remains that it is true.

    And now we come back to the subject of this thread. A promise was made at the release of Free to Pay that is about to be broken. We won't know until the release, but it's been mentioned already. Breaking promises is a big deal and many have previously identified why that is. One of these times, a business decision by Warner Brothers (can't pin this on Turbine) is going to reach my breaking point. I've left other games; I'll be able to leave this one just as easily.

  24. #99
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    389
    forum bug, it soemhow posted in this topic, disregard
    Last edited by Lashmore; Oct 23 2013 at 05:46 AM.

  25. #100
    I couldn't care less about the epic, I only followed some of it for the various rewards (Moria skirms, Deeds, etc). My experience was that it almost needlessly ran you all over the world, back and forth, to see some cutscenes that I was not interested in. I am not disparaging those for whom this part provides great immersion and enjoyment, and I do sympathize, but for me this is a non-issue really.

    What are issues for me are:

    - Will the class revamps bring combat to a more modern flavor or will it still be a glorified version of runescape combat? I'm not too interested in buying an expansion that continues to disappoint me on this front when I can pay about the same or less for MMOs which bring that to the table. On the up-side, I will be able to make this judgement call without buying the expansion.
    - Will the new system of world meta events and scaling be further incorporated later or is this just one small area and will the concept pretty much fall to the wayside as so many other things have? In other words, is Turbine going to continue development in scaled meta events that would entice me to get the expansion? I hope that this will eventually become the norm, along with downleveling to recycle areas, persistent world states, many of the things that are becoming standard in other games to enhance playability. Unfortunately I need the expansion to determne this, or else I need input from players I know and who know me and my playstyle, and those players have all pretty much left the game.
    - Considering my experiences in raids I am curious how well their meta event system handles server lag. Other games are handling it just fine, even with TCP instead of UDP, so I would hope so. This too will require the expansion, although fortunately the feedback from those experiencing it should be enough to judge.

    So in short there are other games already offering me things that Turbine is planning to introduce, and for roughly the same price. There probably isn't any MMO that captures the RP element so well and facilitates it so fully, but that isn't anything to me other than it helps to keep the game in a healthy playerbase. Is Turbine going to address the issue of the meat or simply try to cover up tasteless tofu with a more savory gravy?

 

 
Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload