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  1. #1
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    To all those who are upset about the epic line not being free...

    The epic quests in HD will not be free, but this is VERY justifiable. You know why? because the "big battles" will be tied in with the epic quests, and the big battles are the biggest part of this expansion from what turbine has been saying, so by making the epic line free, (and I'm just speculating here) they would be making a majority of the expansion free. Now I know maybe 2 people across 3 servers who have FtP farmed tp up to level 85. So why would people who are ftp that don't go past the lone lands care whether HD has a free epic line anyway? It's unlikely you would get that far without paying something(thus rendering you not FtP but Premium)
    I would suspect that the epic lines after HD will be free, assuming they aren't tied in with the whole expansion the way these ones are.

    And anyone who claims "well mounted combat was available for ftp" Yes, yes it was. But pretty much the whole RoR expac was doable without a mount if you had some skill with your class(which you should if you're 75-85) while the epic lines in HD will require big battles to be tied into them simply because big battles are basically part of the quest line. It might be kind of hard to understand but you gotta leave emotion out of it and use logic. People who don't pay any money towards this game should not be allowed to complain.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0920d0000002c9618/signature.png]Farimur[/charsig]

  2. #2
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    I don't understand why they couldn't have just left the actual battles out of the Epic.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinDragon View Post
    I don't understand why they couldn't have just left the actual battles out of the Epic.
    I think what I read was it'll be similar to Mirkwood, remember those skirms and how they were tied into the epic? Could be wrong though.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by OruiFarimur View Post
    I think what I read was it'll be similar to Mirkwood, remember those skirms and how they were tied into the epic? Could be wrong though.
    this make sense .....but wonder if with just the quest pack they will be able to do epic?? well , im premuim and have my pre order ready, but wonder how the content kimits will work for others
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  5. #5
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    Off hand I can think of three ways to have made the Epic free and still charge to gain access to the Big Battles...

    1. Do it like the Book II.9 Epilogues.

    2. Permit doing each battle exactly *once* per character while doing the Epic Book, but require purchase for repeating the content (after, all, the Big Battles are the "end game" repeatable content for HD).

    3. Make them side quests like those in the two caves during Book II.1

  6. #6
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    I cant find it now but Im pretty sure Turbine stood by the idea of the Epic line will always be available to all players FTP or otherwise.
    If this was something they said, well then sad days are ahead...


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    Last edited by NJgrazer; Sep 14 2013 at 07:09 PM.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by TinDragon View Post
    I don't understand why they couldn't have just left the actual battles out of the Epic.
    Because then there would have been no reason to charge for the Epic.

    All The Best

  8. #8
    personally in fine with the epics behind the expansion and having you buy helms deep in order to do the quests, but them going back on a promise that "all epic quests will be free" is what i dont like. Either way as long as the money i spend for helms deep i get what i feel is worth that money then ill be happy.

    But going back on a promise is one thing i particularly dont like, even if it purposed problems in how the helms deep expansion uses epics if they were free.

    Either way i hope they take care in future expansion to hold true to what they say/said in the past.
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  9. #9
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    It seems to me that allowing players to run the Big Battle once only to complete your epics would be the way to go. That way Turbine can maintain their earlier promise, and also give free players a taste of the Big Battles and possibly entice them to plunk down their cash. You'd need to ensure that people aren't purposely losing the Battle over and over to pick up rewards for side quests repeatedly, but that doesn't seem too hard. Maybe say only paid players can turn in medals for rewards or whatever.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by GozmitJosh View Post
    personally in fine with the epics behind the expansion and having you buy helms deep in order to do the quests, but them going back on a promise that "all epic quests will be free" is what i dont like. Either way as long as the money i spend for helms deep i get what i feel is worth that money then ill be happy.

    But going back on a promise is one thing i particularly dont like, even if it purposed problems in how the helms deep expansion uses epics if they were free.

    Either way i hope they take care in future expansion to hold true to what they say/said in the past.
    This is my main concern too.

    Once a company you are paying to deliver a service starts lying about the content/level of that service in order to charge more you seriously have to ask what else are they lying about.

    Are they also lying about the "extras" we get with the different ExPacs?

    Turbine, when it was just Turbine, we well aware of the "slack" paying customers would cut them just because the game was LOTRO; and to be fair they rarely, if ever, abused that relationship.

    WB seem intent on abusing that relationship at every given opportunity; and I'd bet my left-leg that the root cause of this is corporate-bean-counters.

    All The Best

  11. #11
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    I agree and I think it's about time all the F2P players learned that not everything in life is free!

  12. #12
    I dont care much tbh, ill probably preorder anyway, but i cant understand why is this needed. We can do these instances from lvl 10 anyway, and i doubt that we will have posibility to do these books on lvl 10. They could have just make this instance pack separate and needed to complete last chapters of the book.

    In my opinion, theyre just using this situation to make all future books locked behind the questpacks.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by OruiFarimur View Post
    The epic quests in HD will not be free, but this is VERY justifiable. You know why? because the "big battles" will be tied in with the epic quests, and the big battles are the biggest part of this expansion from what turbine has been saying, so by making the epic line free, (and I'm just speculating here) they would be making a majority of the expansion free. Now I know maybe 2 people across 3 servers who have FtP farmed tp up to level 85. So why would people who are ftp that don't go past the lone lands care whether HD has a free epic line anyway? It's unlikely you would get that far without paying something(thus rendering you not FtP but Premium)
    I would suspect that the epic lines after HD will be free, assuming they aren't tied in with the whole expansion the way these ones are.

    And anyone who claims "well mounted combat was available for ftp" Yes, yes it was. But pretty much the whole RoR expac was doable without a mount if you had some skill with your class(which you should if you're 75-85) while the epic lines in HD will require big battles to be tied into them simply because big battles are basically part of the quest line. It might be kind of hard to understand but you gotta leave emotion out of it and use logic. People who don't pay any money towards this game should not be allowed to complain.
    Your reasoning is flawed

    Assuming the Epic Battles are the NEW End Game repeatable Instances (Solo, FS and Raid)

    Of course you are not going to get the Teal/Gold Item off a mob from running the Epic Quest part of the Instance
    You get this off running the Repeatable Instances

    So why not let them run the Epic Battle Quest just the ONCE per character
    Then the repeatable becomes locked unless they buy the Expac

    Saying Helm's Deep is the biggest part of the Expansion is like saying Hybolt was the biggest part of the Rohan Expansion
    Helm's Deep is the SELLING point for the Expansion
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malindruel View Post
    Saying Helm's Deep is the biggest part of the Expansion is like saying Hybolt was the biggest part of the Rohan Expansion
    Helm's Deep is the SELLING point for the Expansion
    Helm's deep IS the expansion, hence the expansion name "Helm's Deep." Just like Rohan was the biggest part of the Riders of ROHAN expansion. =)
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0920d0000002c9618/signature.png]Farimur[/charsig]

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by OruiFarimur View Post
    People who don't pay any money towards this game should not be allowed to complain.
    Well, luckily for me, I've paid a Monthly Sub for LOTRO for at least 28 of the last 36 months. I've also paid, with cash, for every expansion during that time, and made one or two purchases of TP on top of that.

    So I am allowed to complain.

    The promise was that the EPic Quest Chain would be FREE forever.

    Turbine have just broken that promise.

    That is not acceptable.

    All The Best

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Malindruel View Post
    Saying Helm's Deep is the biggest part of the Expansion is like saying Hybolt was the biggest part of the Rohan Expansion
    Helm's Deep is the SELLING point for the Expansion
    it was the biggest part of Rohan... until the so called erebor "raids" in FEB/MARCH
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  17. #17
    I don't care about having to pay for the x-pac myself. They are making more areas to explore and more quests to do so paying for them is not a problem. The problem is the price since you already have the game, why have to pay so much for the x-pac. It cost more than an entirely brand new game for the premium pack. And the basic at $40 is also the price of a new game ( if you wait for a sale ). I really think the price for the basic should be around $24.99 and the premium $39.99. It is just an expansion to the game we already have, it is not an entirely new game. I know they need to make money because they are a business but lets stop with the overpricing of the expansions. Or for those that have been a vip for a year or more, gets a discount on the x-pac ( the basic one ).

  18. #18
    lol

    so what did they expect? the free 2 play people ... wanted a free game... so turbine gave you a sense of a free game i suppose. Everything was free more or less apart from raiding/instances..

    so all the free2play customers were happy and say yeh forget that we dont want to raid who cares for raiding group play we just love the lore and the free story..

    so Turbine get rid of raids/instances and so what are they left with to make money?

    the epic story line..

    looooooool PAY UP and realise.. free 2 play is NOT free to play.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by OruiFarimur View Post
    The epic quests in HD will not be free, but this is VERY justifiable.
    Why is it justifiable to break a commitment they made?

    You know why? because the "big battles" will be tied in with the epic quests...
    Just as the epilogues of Volume II were tied in to the epic quests... Just as the interludes in Wildermore were tied in to the epics... They have charged separately for things in the past without troubles.

    Also, Helm's Deep is a scant dozen pages in the book, half of a small chapter, and totally ignored in the summary for the third book. (Obviously an action movie had to make something out of it that never was, but the adventure book doesn't highlight it, in fact most the main characters aren't even there, and they lost, deus ex machina is the only reason for survival.)

    People who don't pay any money towards this game should not be allowed to complain.
    *blinks, how is that logical? They are making everyone pay though, so I guess by your logic everyone gets to complain now? But realize despite it's marketing label, F2P players often pay far more than those who rent content instead.

    But realize the complaint has nothing to do with cost, the complaint is about integrity and a broken commitment.

    The reason people are upset isn't that they'll have to pay more (they won't, it's included in the expansion price), it's that Turbine promises to pay their staff--only it's now been documented/proven that their promise is no good. So will we have devs to create new content in the future? Provide customer service? People trust that a company will take their money and apply it to provide further entertainment services for them. That has been broken. That causes customers to not want to invest in the company. They think, if this is true now, in 2014, will the expansion itself be $100, the epic quests for it an additional $40, and future Battles another $40, all promoted as à la carte choose your own gameplay style?

    It's worth complaining about, so the company is aware of the ramifications. Otherwise if/when they see reduced pre-order and order numbers compared to previous years, they don't attribute it to something else. Complaints serve a purpose, they aren't just for folks to feel better about themselves. The biggest problem for a business is a lack of complaints: people who just leave, silently.

    If you see complaints, be happy, people care. When the complaints stop, worry, the relationship isn't ending, it's already over.
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  20. #20
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    I really don't have a problem with having to pay for the epic line or paying $40 for the basic edition. They need income and I totally understand that and have no issues with that.

    My issues are the ongoing problems like the soundtrack not playing in certain areas, and I'm sure there are other technical problems I cannot think of early on a Sunday morning here in my office.

    Also, I was at Walmart yesterday. I was planning on buying a Turbine point card to actually give Turbine some money for once, since I do not like using my credit card online. They had the DDO card but no LOTRO. I'm just going to use the TP I've saved up for the last year to buy Helm's Deep. No cards in Gamestop either. I could understand if no one had cards for any Turbine game but DDO is the only one I can find.

    Makes me wonder if DDO is actually Turbine's flagship game. I never played it so I cannot say.

    LOTRO is fantastic game, best MMO I ever played. But Turbine itself makes me shake my head sometimes.....
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  21. #21
    I am a founder - who didn't pay for a lifetime account - so I have been paying for a subscription since march 2007. I have paid for every expansion except Riders of Rohan because I got the quest pack only with TP. Turbine has made quite a bit of money from me - but that still doesn't mean I'm special and should have special treatment - no...in fact...
    I rarely complain - I love this game despite a lot of things that are not quite right with the game - but I'm not here to bash LOTRO - I'm here to add to the majority who feels that a promise should not be broken. Period.

    Sadly, the way this game is going, my main character - Pareth of Gondor, will never make it home.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJFerret View Post



    *blinks, how is that logical? They are making everyone pay though, so I guess by your logic everyone gets to complain now? But realize despite it's marketing label, F2P players often pay far more than those who rent content instead.
    If you don't pay anything period, you don't get to complain about it. If buy 1 quest pack, you don't get the right to complain about the rest of them not being free.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0920d0000002c9618/signature.png]Farimur[/charsig]

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manwathien View Post

    Sadly, the way this game is going, my main character - Pareth of Gondor, will never make it home.

    I wouldn't fear for that, I'm sure we'll get to Gondor someday.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0920d0000002c9618/signature.png]Farimur[/charsig]

  24. #24
    Honestly though, its a shame some folks cant see whats going on. Epic story being gated due to it being part of "Big Battles" is justified? I fail to see how. They see justification,I see an intentional decision made in order to see how far they can go to charge folks for something that has been free for years. They certainly could have not made the epic tied into Big Battles,they CHOSE to not to so the epic(free for years) can be used to help sell HD. No one sees that as odd? If not, you like being duped. Plus the xpacs are getting much more expensive. And what are we getting for it...more fluff and free TP that isn't free and actually paid for with the bigger price. Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't "Base" in Base Edtion mean bare-bones? Not by WB's esoteric dictionary apparently. Whats worse is that even the intelligent folks are blind to the duping,and justify it to boot. IMHO this is just the next step in cutting down the barrier between paid subs and F2P. Soon F2P isn't going to exist anymore and its being done little by little. Just as in the US where the lines in financial class have changed little by little and in time Middle Class is a fiction and the so called intelligent ones still believe it out of social inertia. For those who don't see what WB is doing,wise up before you have sunk so much money into the game,youre stuck
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  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Hunnypot View Post
    Honestly though, its a shame some folks cant see whats going on. Epic story being gated due to it being part of "Big Battles" is justified? I fail to see how. They see justification,I see an intentional decision made in order to see how far they can go to charge folks for something that has been free for years. They certainly could have not made the epic tied into Big Battles,they CHOSE to not to so the epic(free for years) can be used to help sell HD. No one sees that as odd? If not, you like being duped. Plus the xpacs are getting much more expensive. And what are we getting for it...more fluff and free TP that isn't free and actually paid for with the bigger price. Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't "Base" in Base Edtion mean bare-bones? Not by WB's esoteric dictionary apparently. Whats worse is that even the intelligent folks are blind to the duping,and justify it to boot. IMHO this is just the next step in cutting down the barrier between paid subs and F2P. Soon F2P isn't going to exist anymore and its being done little by little. Just as in the US where the lines in financial class have changed little by little and in time Middle Class is a fiction and the so called intelligent ones still believe it out of social inertia. For those who don't see what WB is doing,wise up before you have sunk so much money into the game,youre stuck

    I think you have to wake up : 'real' f2p does not really exist in any game, and for that matter Turbine gave quite a lot to f2p'ers, also what they gave for free stays free.

 

 
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