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  1. #1
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    Ronnug's Stance on 1v1ing in the Ettenmoors (SoapBox Warning)

    Let me first state a fact: The Ettenmoors is an open player vs player zone where any opposing side can attack an incapacitate it's opponent at any time and this is by game design. It is not designed or balanced for single player vs single player.

    Now with that said, I have accepted the premise that 1v1's in this game can be legit and even benificial. Vinner enlightened me a long time ago on just how beneficial they can be.

    First off, there is no better way to practice and learn how to fight your opposition than to engage in single combat against that opponent, be it Weaver vs Lore Master, Reaver vs Hunter, ect....

    Also, there is no better way to learn to mouse turn, strafe or to practice your skill timing.

    In general, 1v1ing is a great way to improve your personal experience in the Ettenmoors and another way of challenging oneself.

    In my personal opinion, if approached in a sporting fashion, 1v1's are very legit and should have a place in this game.

    Now there lies our problem.

    Unlike in days of old, most of our so called 1v1er's aren't there for the challenge or to improve their skill. They are there to farm renown/infamy/comms.

    However, let me play the Devil's advicate. It is an open pvp zone and there are no rules against using one's Over Powered options or Cooldowns in order to obtain those rewards. In fact, by game design and the designed Overpower issues in this game, it is encouraged.

    That brings me back to basic sportsmanship and here are some of the things I question about that huge gray area. In the past, there have been unwritten rules of engagement for different classes.

    As Greens and Vinner use to point out, this is largely subjective, depending on the individual player and their rank, equipment, ect.. Greens would point out that you can use any skills you need in order to make a fight close/challenging. On the other hand, not using skills that give you an advantage for the same reason.
    Many times have I been 1v1'ing either of these guys and they disengage and not kill me on purpose when beating me easily (now that's true sportsmanship).

    If you come out and are beating the same opponent over and over with ease, then your farming. Which is fine, but don't expect to get a free pass at the 1v1's/GTA and expect to be treated as your treating others. On the other hand, if your agreeing to engage someone that is beating you easily over and over, then your letting them farm you.

    Everyone knows that Vic and I love to hate one another and trust me, it's all in fun. But I really enjoy 1v1ing his Hunter with my Reaver. He will not use any CC's and even though he still wins most the engagements, they are always close and challenging.

    On the other hand, while this isn't an organized 1v1, there is a Hunter who plays solo primarily and will come out with all the store buffs, will use pots, fall immunity, ect.. who get's upset when he is called out and ganked. He seems to think that because he's solo that others should play by his rules in an open pvp arena.
    I have no problem with him using all the resources available to him but in turn, he needs to respect that I choose not to invest in those same resources and choose an alternative resource of calling in friends to help.

    Again, it's subjective, he thinks I'm unsporting for eventually calling him out and getting him ganked in an open pvp arena instead of coming back solo without all those store bought resouces and feeding him renown over and over..

    To sum it up, all is fair in a game of love and war and with the present situation of imbalance, 1v1's are about useless for the vast majority of those who now play.. Only a very limited few come to GTA with truely honorable 1v1 intentions. So expect the worst and hope for the best and don't get upset when other's don't play by your rules, no matter what side of the fence your on..
    Ronnug - The Blueberry Reaver on Gladden
    I don't feel a thing when dieing ingame. The only time I really mind is when the rez is on the other side of the map.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by DaxMaxtor View Post

    Now with that said, I have accepted the premise that 1v1's in this game can be legit and even benificial. Vinner enlightened me a long time ago on just how beneficial they can be.




    As Greens and Vinner use to point out, this is largely subjective, depending on the individual player and their rank, equipment, ect.. Greens would point out that you can use any skills you need in order to make a fight close/challenging. On the other hand, not using skills that give you an advantage for the same reason.
    Many times have I been 1v1'ing either of these guys and they disengage and not kill me on purpose when beating me easily (now that's true sportsmanship).

    First off, I appreciate the praise of how I was able to teach you good things about the Moors that were beneficial to you. I'm glad you've been trying to better yourself thru 1v1ing Gun, and I noticed you were getting better when I left. I don't think 1v1s prove as much anymore, but like you said, I think more people use 1v1s to farm points moreso than for challenges, and this was explained in the earlier thread why I believe 1v1s are broken in terms of being good sport and skewed, for me anyway.

    The difference between me and Greens is that Greens' philosophy said it's fine using cooldowns to even up a fight to make it the most challenging/close it could be. My philosophy is not using cooldowns at all, so when you do get to a competitive point with your opponent, either thru practice, gear, or rank, you would be able to to provide a better fight for them, perhaps winning moreso than not due to having not needed to rely on cds. This being said, I didn't mind when people used cooldowns on me, it just didn't help them become better imo. The reason a lot of the best 1v1ers at their class (Grimphore, Slashed, Asteris, Nudes, to name a few) became the best at their class imo, is because they stopped relying on cooldowns altogether. I like to think my philosophy is a Jeet Kune Do Bruce Lee esque one hehe . As I said recently, everyone might as well use every cd they have available due to how the Moors is designed now.

    In conclusion, both philosophies are good ones to live by in the 1v1 world, but mine's better . Haha na, it's preference, but ofc I like mine better obv.
    Last edited by joshy8910; Sep 14 2013 at 02:26 PM.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by DaxMaxtor View Post
    On the other hand, if your agreeing to engage someone that is beating you easily over and over, then your letting them farm you.
    This is exactly the problem with Turbine's new rules on farming. How do you define "easily"?

    For example, when I 1v1 Clevinger on my reaver w/o delving pots, he beats me 75% of the time. That is heavily in his favor. However, I continue to spar him because I know there are points where he will make a mistake, I will get a lucky crit, I will outmaneuver him, etc. and I will win. But what if we spar 6 times and he wins all 6 by strokes of luck? Is that farming? I would argue no, because on that 7th time one of the above scenarios might happen and I will win, but the concept is this:

    Because of the style of the game, certain 1v1s (burgs, hunters, rks especially) center around "kill him before he kills me," which results in very skewed endings. "Very skewed endings" meaning that most of the time, one opponent is going to have a LOT of morale left over if they win. It will look as if one side roflstomped the other, when it may very well have been a close fight and someone just got their big skill off before the other person did. That is not an "easy" win. How are you to determine whether or not it is an "easy" win when the game is so heavily styled like this?
    RIP Milkmefondly 2014

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Bond007 View Post
    This is exactly the problem with Turbine's new rules on farming. How do you define "easily"?

    For example, when I 1v1 Clevinger on my reaver w/o delving pots, he beats me 75% of the time. That is heavily in his favor. However, I continue to spar him because I know there are points where he will make a mistake, I will get a lucky crit, I will outmaneuver him, etc. and I will win. But what if we spar 6 times and he wins all 6 by strokes of luck? Is that farming? I would argue no, because on that 7th time one of the above scenarios might happen and I will win, but the concept is this:

    Because of the style of the game, certain 1v1s (burgs, hunters, rks especially) center around "kill him before he kills me," which results in very skewed endings. "Very skewed endings" meaning that most of the time, one opponent is going to have a LOT of morale left over if they win. It will look as if one side roflstomped the other, when it may very well have been a close fight and someone just got their big skill off before the other person did. That is not an "easy" win. How are you to determine whether or not it is an "easy" win when the game is so heavily styled like this?
    I've heard that pretty much every creep uses delving pots in 1v1s now. Is this a RoR thing? I never used delving pots in my life in 1v1s, but to each his own. I always thought they were cheap imo, but I still fought those that did on my freep regardless, even pulling out wins. I never thought they were necessary on creeps.

    And thank you for someone that finally understands about skewed 1v1s in this expac.

  5. #5
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    I see Gunnor that senility has ravaged your logic and thought processes....err what little you had to begin with!

    /facepalm

    Val
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0120300000006c7ce/01003/signature.png]Valistar[/charsig]
    "I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory, I love only that which it defends" J. R. Tolkien

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Eaglehaven View Post
    I see Gunnor that senility has ravaged your logic and thought processes....err what little you had to begin with!

    /facepalm

    Val
    Valistar, you are the last person to question someone's logic and thought processes. However, welcome back, ya Bad Santa hillbilly! You can prob go to the moors and see the "wonderful" job Turbine has done to it via your request.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshy8910 View Post
    I've heard that pretty much every creep uses delving pots in 1v1s now. Is this a RoR thing? I never used delving pots in my life in 1v1s, but to each his own. I always thought they were cheap imo, but I still fought those that did on my freep regardless, even pulling out wins. I never thought they were necessary on creeps.

    And thank you for someone that finally understands about skewed 1v1s in this expac.
    He said "very skewed endings" related in high morale fluctuations depending on who lands or doesn't land their big dps skills. No where in his post did he say skewed 1v1s. Brush up on your reading comprehension.
    [CENTER][COLOR=#C7CF92][img]http://i.imgur.com/9rGw1Yd.gif[/img]
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Ravyrn View Post
    He said "very skewed endings" related in high morale fluctuations depending on who lands or doesn't land their big dps skills. No where in his post did he say skewed 1v1s. Brush up on your reading comprehension.
    Skewed endings still correlates to skewed 1v1s, you knob end. If in the fight there is anything skewed about the 1v1 in this expac, it is a skewed 1v1. Maybe there wouldn't be "skewed endings" as often if there weren't OP buffs? Read between the lines, bud! Wipe the Cajun jizzem outta ya eyes, boy!

    I don't know why you constantly insist to berate people and act like you "outsmart" them, Vic. More of your changed bs I've noticed, esp ppl you used to be cool with. You don't outsmart me and never will, so stop trying to.
    Last edited by joshy8910; Sep 18 2013 at 11:27 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshy8910 View Post
    Skewed endings still correlates to skewed 1v1s, you knob end. If in the fight there is anything skewed about the 1v1 in this expac, it is a skewed 1v1. Maybe there wouldn't be "skewed endings" as often if there weren't OP buffs? Read between the lines, bud! Wipe the Cajun jizzem outta ya eyes, boy!

    I don't know why you constantly insist to berate people and act like you "outsmart" them, Vic. More of your changed bs I've noticed, esp ppl you used to be cool with. You don't outsmart me and never will, so stop trying to.
    Read the last part of my past post. The "skewed endings" he is referencing would be just the same if every single OP was owned by the delving.
    [CENTER][COLOR=#C7CF92][img]http://i.imgur.com/9rGw1Yd.gif[/img]
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  10. #10
    I think this thread needs more people who haven't played since RoI to post in it.
    Kerelas-Hunter,Kerebear-Reaver

  11. #11
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    love that 1v1s still a source of discussion

    <-2011 old fart checking in
    Freeps: Beast, Cadaverous, Deadite, Elphaba, Joules, Kookaburra, Stheno, Weebey, Zod
    Creeps: Barfbag, Bulgingeggsac, Elphabash, Farfel
    {SM/2H1R}

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by KneelBeforeZod View Post
    love that 1v1s still a source of discussion

    <-2011 old fart checking in
    Not surprised.....those who can't PVP do 1v1's!

    Val
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0120300000006c7ce/01003/signature.png]Valistar[/charsig]
    "I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory, I love only that which it defends" J. R. Tolkien

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Eaglehaven View Post
    Not surprised.....those who can't PVP do 1v1's!

    Val
    Those who can't do either? ./report and quit the game, and then post on the forums about their PVP skillz.
    Kerelas-Hunter,Kerebear-Reaver

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ1125 View Post
    Those who can't do either? ./report and quit the game, and then post on the forums about their PVP skillz.
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Ravyrn View Post
    Read the last part of my past post. The "skewed endings" he is referencing would be just the same if every single OP was owned by the delving.
    The last part of your part post? And you're questioning my reading comprehension haha? What they teachin u down on the bayou, boy?! Anyway, I'll try to make this simple for you: skewed is what skewed does. Obviously each side having no OPs and them being delving-controlled would be just like preRoR (the endings would be far less skewed), but I don't see anywhere in his post referring to that, so you're on crack or some voodoo drug. You are inferring from that text that is what he is saying, which is not the right inference. Work on your inference skills. The endings would not be the same at all though if OPs were delving controlled compared to freep/creep controlled.

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ1125 View Post
    I think this thread needs more people who haven't played since RoI to post in it.
    Hush your pretty mouth, or I'll make my mark on your tight lil blonde butthole. Remember who your masta is! I don't need to be here to know this pvp has gone to poo poo cachoo, it's not really hard to see that. We can all still agree that Valistar is obviously still deluded as ever, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eaglehaven View Post
    Not surprised.....those who can't PVP do 1v1's!

    Val
    How many times do I need to tell you 1v1ing is PvP? It literally is pvping, it's a player vs a player; how dumb can you be? You really need to see a psychiatrist about how when you got owned in them, so now you hate them and its cause behind it. Those who can't pvp, turtle and then zerg greenies at grams though!
    Last edited by joshy8910; Sep 21 2013 at 12:30 PM.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshy8910 View Post
    The last part of your part post? And you're questioning my reading comprehension haha? What they teachin u down on the bayou, boy?! Anyway, I'll try to make this simple for you: skewed is what skewed does. Obviously each side having no OPs and them being delving-controlled would be just like preRoR (the endings would be far less skewed), but I don't see anywhere in his post referring to that, so you're on crack or some voodoo drug. You are inferring from that text that is what he is saying, which is not the right inference. Work on your inference skills. The endings would not be the same at all though if OPs were delving controlled compared to freep/creep controlled.
    *BEGIN PHOTO*

    *END PHOTO*

    This is how I saw my post display to me. Did it display differently to you? Your post quotes me and in your sixth word you misquote me. Yes, I'm questioning your reading comprehension. In regards to Swift's statement of skewed outcomes in 1v1s, as a reaver and hunter, as he also is, the morale outcome of a 1v1 is often skewed one way or the other. Outposts have nothing to do with it. It can happen 2/2, 3/1, 4/0. Burst dps class vs burst dps class, it's a matter of who lands their skills. He is stating that they are skewed as 2 seconds make a big difference in who has morale and who doesn't. As a player who has played both, as opposed to a player who has played neither in the last 18 months, I will continue to take any assertion you make regarding anything pvp related in a game, which you haven't played in 18 months, with extreme skepticism.
    [CENTER][COLOR=#C7CF92][img]http://i.imgur.com/9rGw1Yd.gif[/img]
    Misadventure - R14 Hunter, Fatwanda-1 - R10 Guard
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Ravyrn View Post
    *BEGIN PHOTO*

    *END PHOTO*

    This is how I saw my post display to me. Did it display differently to you? Your post quotes me and in your sixth word you misquote me. Yes, I'm questioning your reading comprehension. In regards to Swift's statement of skewed outcomes in 1v1s, as a reaver and hunter, as he also is, the morale outcome of a 1v1 is often skewed one way or the other. Outposts have nothing to do with it. It can happen 2/2, 3/1, 4/0. Burst dps class vs burst dps class, it's a matter of who lands their skills. He is stating that they are skewed as 2 seconds make a big difference in who has morale and who doesn't. As a player who has played both, as opposed to a player who has played neither in the last 18 months, I will continue to take any assertion you make regarding anything pvp related in a game, which you haven't played in 18 months, with extreme skepticism.
    It displayed the same. You can't question my reading comprehension, which is fine, when you can't even type a coherent statement yourself. I'M IN A PRESTIGIOUS COLLEGE DAWG! I thought the mocking was obvious and deserved. Like I said, work on your inference skills also.

    Facetiousness aside, Viceras, ok... I don't know why it's so hard to comprehend that the OPs skew 1v1s moreso compared to no OPs. It's not hard to understand... it really isn't. I don't know what else I have to explain. You may have played more than me recently, but I also have played those 2 classes for long time, specifically and mostly in the 1v1 department, and I know for a fact that I've 1v1ed way more than you to understand the mechanics; you and I and everyone on the server knows this. Even if I'm not playing, the mechanics are simple enough to deduce to see how things are, and I have been keeping tabs on things from inside sources here and there.

    When you start from a distance on a hunter and burst out more damage than you normally do because of OP buffs compared to no OP buffs, it's skewed, simple as that. I don't need to play the game to understand the mechanics; as I've stated, I don't post unless I take an in-depth look at what I'm typing. You just can't admit you're wrong because your so full of yourself. Just because you're "skeptic" about it doesn't make it wrong, but obviously so, because your the master of pvp and all. There's a reason I don't 1v1 anymore nor play, and this is a major reason why. It makes me stronger than I'm supposed to be, and I liked the challenge of not having outside help from buffs.

    Yes, 2 seconds does make a big difference in the fight (nowhere did I see this in Swift's post of anything about 2 seconds btw, so once again, don't know why you're questioning my reading comprehension as you're inferring too), particularly with the Hunter's Improved Focus crit mutiplier that also provides more damage from crit. I saw skewed endings, but not the words 2 seconds. Skewed endings could mean 10 seconds, but it still involves 1v1s, can't that be inferred? So we both inferred, so I don't know why you're dissing my reading comprehension, son! Anyway, those 2 seconds from an increased damage output from OPs could make that much of a difference. Guess what, I haven't played the game in a while and I STILL ANALYZED THAT CORRECTLY THIS ZOMG! It's blasphemy! One of the many examples though that I already have drawn upon. *I realize this paragraph is very unorganized chronologically, but I figure since you're reading comprehension is so great, you won't have a problem deciphering it *

    In an unrelated, semi-related post, it's a shame how far you've gone from your original, cool self Vic. You used to be such a cool guy, and I'm sure it's still in there somewhere covered in the jizzy douchery that now encompasses your lovely elven face, but alas, this is how it is. I don't know what happened to you over the years, but I apologize to you that I couldn't prevent it from happening.
    Last edited by joshy8910; Sep 26 2013 at 07:56 PM.

  18. #18
    I was using the term skewed endings to refer to something like when reavers hit impale and their target drops 7k morale, or hunters hit a dev blood arrow and boom 6k gone from the target. Or when champs hit a 5k remorseless, or RKs hit a 8k EC, or when a BA hits a 5k revenge, or... you get the idea.

    Skewed endings, meaning, the fight appears fair UNTIL someone hits a skill that has a high crit magnitude/multiplier, and it crits. Then boom, one person is left in the dust and the other person is standing there with well over half health remaining, or some such result. It's sad because skill is really not much of a factor in fights like this -- one person could seriously simply get lucky and still beat a far more skilled player who just happened to miss his "UBER BIG NUMBERZ" skill.

    And no, it's not the OPs alone that resulted in this style of playing, although the OP mastery boosts DO have an effect on it. This was just a slow avalanche that started with the removal of the stat cap back at 75. Then crit rating changed to increase crit magnitude even further, then crit defence was changed so that more crits happened (albeit the crits may not be as HIGH as they used to be), etc. etc. I mean, so many skills alone have been changed around just to satisfy people's appetites to see bigger numbers on their screen, and I'm sure this trend will continue further in HD.

    Overall, it's just stupid. It encourages people to value luck over skill, because RNG starts playing a far greater role in skewed ending fights than it did when players' damage was choked back.
    RIP Milkmefondly 2014

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bond007 View Post
    I was using the term skewed endings to refer to something like when reavers hit impale and their target drops 7k morale, or hunters hit a dev blood arrow and boom 6k gone from the target. Or when champs hit a 5k remorseless, or RKs hit a 8k EC, or when a BA hits a 5k revenge, or... you get the idea.

    Skewed endings, meaning, the fight appears fair UNTIL someone hits a skill that has a high crit magnitude/multiplier, and it crits. Then boom, one person is left in the dust and the other person is standing there with well over half health remaining, or some such result. It's sad because skill is really not much of a factor in fights like this -- one person could seriously simply get lucky and still beat a far more skilled player who just happened to miss his "UBER BIG NUMBERZ" skill.

    And no, it's not the OPs alone that resulted in this style of playing, although the OP mastery boosts DO have an effect on it. This was just a slow avalanche that started with the removal of the stat cap back at 75. Then crit rating changed to increase crit magnitude even further, then crit defence was changed so that more crits happened (albeit the crits may not be as HIGH as they used to be), etc. etc. I mean, so many skills alone have been changed around just to satisfy people's appetites to see bigger numbers on their screen, and I'm sure this trend will continue further in HD.

    Overall, it's just stupid. It encourages people to value luck over skill, because RNG starts playing a far greater role in skewed ending fights than it did when players' damage was choked back.
    I'm pretty sure everything you just described can be blamed on ops.
    [CENTER][COLOR=#C7CF92][img]http://i.imgur.com/9rGw1Yd.gif[/img]
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravyrn View Post
    Full of win!!
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    <Cmdr. Dolcarak><Lt. Cojiro>
    ~Leader of SotWH~[/COLOR][COLOR=blk]
    [/COLOR]

    [/CENTER]




    [/B]

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Bond007 View Post

    although the OP mastery boosts DO have an effect on it. Then crit rating changed to increase crit magnitude even further, then crit defence was changed so that more crits happened (albeit the crits may not be as HIGH as they used to be), etc. etc. I mean, so many skills alone have been changed around just to satisfy people's appetites to see bigger numbers on their screen, and I'm sure this trend will continue further in HD.

    Overall, it's just stupid. It encourages people to value luck over skill, because RNG starts playing a far greater role in skewed ending fights than it did when players' damage was choked back.
    This summarizes the point I was trying to make, thank you. Obviously, what you are saying can be clearly and distinctly seen in 1v1s in contrast to other forms of fighting. The "slow avalanche" you are describing has been magnified absurdly with RoR, and RoR has made it less skill based with 1v1s moreso than it has ever been due to the OP buffs and other nonsense providing such. Before OPs and such, you could base more skill off 1v1s than now; that's what I was trying to say, but it took someone else to post that actually plays to get the point across I guess, it's not a hard point to explain, guess just because people hate me for whatever reason, idk lol. This is why 1v1s are broken for me anyway, if everyone else wants to say they aren't and be in denial, they can go ahead, but 1v1s in the moors really prove jackdiddly anymore.
    Last edited by joshy8910; Sep 30 2013 at 08:10 PM.

  22. #22
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    OP buffs have very little effect on the game becoming so bursty/crit dependent. Its much more to do with the fact that dps has more or less doubled each expansion with a much less dramatic increase in morale pools.



    Vinner, I don't think anyone would argue that OP buffs are good, but I really don't understand how you seem to think that pvp is beneath you now that they are a thing. Luck and RnG has always played a massive role in LOTRO pvp. You should know, you played a guard. Its always been the case that if you crit all your TTKs or overwhelms or got all your BA bleeds to proc that you would absolutly destroy whoever you were fighting, yet you always seemed quite proud of your ability. How is playing now any different/any less skillful? Particularly in the case of the guardian, I would argue that it takes much more skill to play one successfully these days. Now that they are much less overpowered compared to everything else.



    I'm not sure how pvp is so drastically different now that some fights are slightly shorter. Movement doesn't matter any less than it used to. If someone gets a string of lucky crits they are probably going to win, but that has always been the case. It will always be the case. A good player will beat a bad player a majority of the time. This was true in SoA and is still true now.



    I don't get why you think 1v1s are broken. They seem to me like they are just as fair as they have ever been. Perhaps even more so now.
    Belegarod - Guard \ Belegarond-1 - Captain / Belegorond - Champion \ Maveryck - Runekeeper / Glaxe-1 - Burg \ Atwo-1 - LM / Jaspir - Warden \ Gladden

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by usernamealreadyinuse View Post
    OP buffs have very little effect on the game becoming so bursty/crit dependent. Its much more to do with the fact that dps has more or less doubled each expansion with a much less dramatic increase in morale pools.



    Vinner, I don't think anyone would argue that OP buffs are good, but I really don't understand how you seem to think that pvp is beneath you now that they are a thing. Luck and RnG has always played a massive role in LOTRO pvp. You should know, you played a guard. Its always been the case that if you crit all your TTKs or overwhelms or got all your BA bleeds to proc that you would absolutly destroy whoever you were fighting, yet you always seemed quite proud of your ability. How is playing now any different/any less skillful? Particularly in the case of the guardian, I would argue that it takes much more skill to play one successfully these days. Now that they are much less overpowered compared to everything else.



    I'm not sure how pvp is so drastically different now that some fights are slightly shorter. Movement doesn't matter any less than it used to. If someone gets a string of lucky crits they are probably going to win, but that has always been the case. It will always be the case. A good player will beat a bad player a majority of the time. This was true in SoA and is still true now.



    I don't get why you think 1v1s are broken. They seem to me like they are just as fair as they have ever been. Perhaps even more so now.
    First off, don't deny OP buffs don't make a big difference on 1v1s because they do. OP buffs make it so I have to rely less on my inherent skill and more on outside buffs to help me win, which is dumb. You know I probably challenge myself in 1v1s more than anyone else on the server, so this doesn't help any lol. That's why I think having OP buffs are beneath me. It's an insult to my natural ability in a fight. Second, I played my guard when it was a challenge and you actually had to know how to land stagger and not have gear that made it easy mode to land it, plus, I didn't wanna rank past Commander cuz it's badace. Lol at saying Guards take more skill to play now. Auto stagger ftw, case closed. Funny how you should say movement doesn't matter any less than it used to, because that's one example lol. I've played guard in a lot more different stages and longer than a lot more people, including yourself, to know how guards have fared over the years. You wanna talk about guards being a challenge, try to have played one during SoA.


    I shouldn't have to explain why 1v1s are broken (which I prob already indirectly did... again). I've beat the dead horse past dead. Anyone with an ounce of sense should see how they are, not to mention them being used for the wrong reasons by people sometimes to farm easy opponents with the increased infamy/comms/ renown, not saying you do for the wrong reasons, because you 1v1ed a bit before RoR.

    In conclusion, I think it's useless to explain my points to most people about 1v1s, so I'll stop. It seems esoteric and foreign, for hell knows why, maybe because people don't wanna admit they are doing better than they should because of outside buffs, idk, or they just enjoy the increased damage they do compared to their normal damage, idk, these are just theories. I just consider myself a true and devout 1v1er when it had a bit more integrity to it than it does now, as that was one of the only things I did when I pvped, and I did it for the challenge and fun, but OP buffs killed it for me.
    Last edited by joshy8910; Sep 30 2013 at 09:21 PM.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    Australia
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    373
    Guardians were overpowered for a long long time. Pre RoI they were the strongest melee class by far. Anyone that says they weren't overpowered is kidding themselves

    Even with auto stagger they are way more balanced now, perhaps even a bit weak. I lost one 1v1 (out of hundreds) vs another melee last expansion, and I very rarely lost in the expansions prior. It is a lot harder to be a guardian now.




    I also think its useless to explain your points, they are wrong. As far as I know you don't even play anymore. So I guess your opinion doesn't matter all that much anyway
    Belegarod - Guard \ Belegarond-1 - Captain / Belegorond - Champion \ Maveryck - Runekeeper / Glaxe-1 - Burg \ Atwo-1 - LM / Jaspir - Warden \ Gladden

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by usernamealreadyinuse View Post
    Guardians were overpowered for a long long time. Pre RoI they were the strongest melee class by far. Anyone that says they weren't overpowered is kidding themselves

    Even with auto stagger they are way more balanced now, perhaps even a bit weak. I lost one 1v1 (out of hundreds) vs another melee last expansion, and I very rarely lost in the expansions prior. It is a lot harder to be a guardian now.




    I also think its useless to explain your points, they are wrong. As far as I know you don't even play anymore. So I guess your opinion doesn't matter all that much anyway
    I'm gonna go through the stages of guardian strength vs. creeps, that I was around for anyway, because I know my analyzed inferences after this will be dissuaded:
    Prebk12 Guardian: Underpowered (I played then)
    Book 12-14 Guardian: Balanced (I played then)
    Moria Book 6 Guardian (as was every freep class): OP (Played reaver during this)
    Moria Book 7 Guardian: Balanced (I played then and started hunter)
    SoM Guardian without heal proc: Balanced (I played then)
    SoM Guardian with Heal proc: Overpowered (Played reaver and hunter then)
    RoI Guardian: Balanced (I played then with hunter and reaver)
    RoI Guardian with auto Stagger/Audacity Gear: OP due to auto landing stagger(Played hunter full time)

    They had stages of being overpowered, in which I didn't play it. Please explain to me how they were OP Pre-RoI (other than the 2 stages I mentioned)? I rarely saw you on your guard when they were a challenge and it took good movement to land stagger to beat people.

    Once again, I don't have to play to see what the Moors has become due to the changes and my point seems to be esoteric, not wrong. I'm not talking about guardian, but mechanics in general. You can keep being in denial about Guardians being weaker than before though, enjoy your ez mode auto stagger. It really is an easier class to play mechanically now, whether you and your inflated ego from such like to believe it or not. I'll have my opinion on guard, you can have yours.

    I'm just curious though, Bele, how long have you been playing Guard in the moors, extensively (not hopping onto champion and captain fotm or w/e)? Not just in general? Because I rarely saw you out on him when they were actually tough to play, so you can't really validate anything unless you've played it as extensively as I had. I really only saw you start playing guard extensively when audacity gear and auto stagger came out though in the Moors. Based off surugi, you were rank 3 on January 7, 2011. RoI came out September 27th, 2011, so you have at least been playing guard in the moors since middle SoM if I'm correct, but the extensiveness of that is the question, which wasn't much then I believe. Judging from that, you can't really validate jack diddly to what you're saying regarding guard's opness, considering you missed out playing in the moors for half the other time/expacs. Had you been playing for around as long as I had on guard, I would view your opinion with some merit behind it.

    I think you're wrong, sir. I hardly say they were the strongest melee class Pre RoI, but they were a strong class if played well. I had no trouble vs bad guardians on my reaver. It took a skilled guard to take down a reaver back the earlier expansions without cds. Sorry if you think my opinion is "useless", but I'm not gonna value the opinion of the guy that says "cooldowns should be used by people in 1v1s". I'd say in this time and age that is ok, but before RoR, just a smh @ that lol.
    Last edited by joshy8910; Oct 10 2013 at 12:01 AM.

 

 
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